I was thinking from the first that you should really give Feliway a try. I
would spring for the diffuser over the spray.  Do you have a cat tree or two
for some extra territory? You might just take 15 or 20 minutes a day to
spend JUST with him only in a room so he feels "special".

Karen

Hi Matt,
You need to rule out a medical problem before you consider this
behavioural.
Lethergy due to illness can be mistaken for depression so first you
need to have him checked by a vet, just in case. He could have a
throid problem or soemthig that was undetected and the stress has made
worse.
A new baby in the household is major change, apart from receiving
less attention , a baby is noisy and smelly ;) and he can't escape
from it.  If you've also put him on a diet I'm not suprised he is
reacting like this.
If he is down, you want to make him feel better so if you  give him
the same amount of food as before for the moment , don't cut down on
the previous amount.
How much is a huge amount of attention ? Do you play with him much?
How about some new toys to stimulate him?
Alison

circa 28 May 2004 17:09:51 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Matt
(i_hear_the_lampire_down@yahoo.com) said,

Definitely worth trying.

Laura

HOWEDY janet you pathetic miserable stinkin lyin
animal murderin active acute chronic life long incurable
mental case and professional dog trainin FRAUD an
SCAM ARTIST,

LUCKY THING suja works with RESCUE dogs JUST LIKE
HOWE you do, AIN'T IT. suja got her fear aggressive hyperactive
HOWETA CON-TROLl dog Pan from her beast friend who
couldn't TRAIN IT not to destroy her HOWES despite all of
suja's EXXXPERTEASE.

THANK G-D suja was willin to relieve her beast friend
of HER beast friend, otherWIZE IT mighta ended up in
YOUR SHELTER where IT woulda been MURDERED
like paulie's RESCUE dog Muttley nearly done, till you
was KINDLY enough to offer him some FREE obedience
trainin to make IT well behaved enough that HE COULD
GET RID OF IT on accHOWENTA he couldn't TRAIN IT
to get along with his DEAD KAT Photon <{): ~ ( >

Like your own RESCUE dog Rudy who like Muttley, is UNTRAINABLE.

Dogs EAT sh.t when they're ABUSED for HOWEsbreakin
"accidents" and locked in boxes and jerked choked shocked
and sprayed in the face with aversives and IGNORED when
they CRY <{): ~ ( >

So called urinary / spay incontinence is CAUSED by
STRESS from MISHANDLING unless of curse, your
veterinary malpracticioner done a HORRIBLY BOTCHED
spay / neuter job <{): ~ ( >

Well janet, the FACT that you CAN'T GET RID of
your "RESCUE" dog Rudy is pathetic PROOF of
YOUR OBEDIENCE TRAINING FAILURE, not
the DOG'S inability to CON-TRAIN hisself <{): ~ (  >

ALL temperament and behavior problems are CAUSED
BY MISHANDLING, therefore CAN BE CURED
NEARLY INSTANTLY, simply by DOIN EVERYTHING
EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you
and your ignorameHOWES pathetic miserable stinkin lyin
animal murderin PROFESSIONAL DOG TRAININ and
VETERINARY ETHOLOGIST punk thug coward mental
case FRAUD pals like dr. mark plonsky and marshall
dermer of UofWI, dra. patricia mcconnell, dra. kathryn
houpt of Cornell, dra. karen overall of UofPa, dr. nicholas
dodman, dr. ian dunbar, et al,TEACH <{}: ~ ( >

You mean, JERKING CHOKING SHOCKING and
lockin IT in a box and IGNORING ITS CRIES <{): ~ ( >

BWEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

So much for your OBEDIENCE TRAININ, eh, janet?

CuriHOWES AIN'T IT, that you got THE SAME PROBLEMS
with your DEATHLY ILL KAT who ATTACKS YOU on
accHOWENTA you surgically digitally MUTILATED IT,
and pisses on your furniture and the dog's beds when you
PUNISH your dogs.

CuriHOWES AIN'T IT, that HOWER rescue pal racetrack silly's
DEATHLY ILL critters likeWIZE, GOT THE SAME PROBLEMS:

From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>

Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:15:53 -0400
Local: Thurs, Oct 13 2005 1:15 pm
Subject: Re: One more thing the trainer said

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:06:00 -0400, Janet B

<j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:

<THOSE ARE STRESS INDCUED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASES>

Three *days*?!  Wow.  I'm betting there was some oxygen
deprivation somewhere in there, and she has some brain damage.

Sounds just a bit like our Abby, who's 16 next month.  Abby
was charging the dogs a few months ago, losing weight, and
she's probably the one who was/is spraying the file cabinets
in the den.

I was thinking hypothyroid, especially with the aggression toward
the dogs (she and the guest mini Dachshund would actually have
boxing matches, which, since they were harmless, were hilarious),
but thyroid levels were normal.

Vet presumptively diagnosed IBS, and she's been much better on
prednisone.  We think she had a stroke at some point, though, or
maybe mini-strokes or something.  She has the most incredible blank
expression, sort of "hello, you look like a nice person, who are you?"

She darted out the back door at night a couple of months ago and
gave us all heart failure, so she now wears a safety collar and bell.
She can't jump up onto a chair seat and is pretty wobbly in the rear,
and for the first time in her life, she seems to like being carried
around.  Definitely kitty Alzheimer's.

Mustang Sally

From: Janet B <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>

Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:24:00 -0400
Subject: Re: One more thing the trainer said

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:15:53 -0400, sighthounds & siberians
<x...@ncweb.com>, clicked their heels and said:

She sounds a lot like Carey (yes, oxygen deprivation at birth is
pretty likely!).  Carey takes Prozac currently.  She's been on Valium,
Pred, Phenobarbital, Elavil.  She takes Cosequin (joints and bladder
use) and Cyproheptadine (an antihistamine which also helps the
bladder, as she does have blood when stressed - some interstitial
cystitis).  Odd drug - another cat I had took it as an appetite
stimulant (she was a cardiomyopathy kitty), and I've used it as an
anti-histamine.  Her thyroid is visible and palpable, yet her levels
are all normal - very weird.  And we've checked them with every test
and several times.

She exhuasts me.  Right now she's curled up in her favorite little bed
in the guest room, where she spends most of the day (the dogs get some
break).  Come dinner time, the evening can be pretty weird.  Like
humans with "sundowners".  And 2 a.m. is the yowling hour most nights.

                         ===========

HOWEDY janet you miserable lyin dog aubsin active
acute chronic long term incurable mental case,

Janet B wrote:

BWEEEEAAHAHHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

You an malinda make quite a team.

INDEED? You mean like wm koehler or adam katz?

You GUESS, janet? Here on The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's
Human And Animal Behavior Sciences Forensic Research Laboratory
we rely on COMPELLING EVIDENCE so's to AVOID GUESSWORK <{); ~ ) >

They was WHOWELY men, janet. You're a liar and dog abusing mental case.

THAT'S HOWE COME The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard QUOTES your own
POSTED CASE HISTORIES when HE calls you LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS
and ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES <{); ~ ) >

LIKE THIS:

   "Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
   choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
   stern correction" --Janet Boss

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

BWEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

We was talkin abHOWET JERKING CHOKING SHOCKING INTIMIATING and
MURDERING
innocent defenseless dumb critters, AND LYIN abHOWET IT.  REMEMBER dog
abusers <{); ~ ) >

LIKE THIS:

From: "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
Date: 2 Dec 2005 10:55:41 -0800
Subject: Re: In defense of Jerry Howe's methods

Mary Healey wrote:

THEM).  You're 0 for 2, so far.

That's 2 in 2 as far as I'm concerned but hey, if you insist. I'm
really curious to see what will be the justification this time. So far
we have:

Limited choking? Hey, it's limited, As
Neo would say: Woah, there is no choke.

Dogs pumped full of prozac? Hey, they're trippin
man. Remember Woodstock. Euh.... Woodwhat?

E-Collar? I'm sure some of you will come up with: But my
dog look so pretty with an electrified perm. Swoooon.

So on with the fun.  Taken from the "Collars" thread,
started by Perry Templeton June 20 2005

Denis
                    ------------

one reason I call them slip collars.  Their is a correction involved,
and while it causes momentary discomfort, does not choke the dog.
OTOH, it is CAPABLE fo being used to do that, should a situation
warrant it.
--
Janet B
----------

And here's another one from the same author,
taken from the same thread.

---------

167. Janet B
 Jun 21, 12:03 pm   show options
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:11 +0100, "Alison"

<Ali...@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk>, wrote:

Oh geez - let's see - how many JRTs act like alligators at the end of
a leash?  I personally prefer prong collars.

----------

Let's go for the hat trick with the same author, taken from the same
thread:

----------

141. Janet B
Jun 27, 10:01 pm

I don't use choke chains.  Not quite true - I use a jeweler's hex link

on Franklin at times - it's puuuuuurty.    I know the "sound" thing
and all, and when training a dog in a non-group setting, that sound
may be a factor, but I think it fails in the context of a group class.

So, I prefer the better fitting nylon slip collars, and very often,
pinch collars (small link unless it's a freaky dog, then they need
the  milder medium link).

But I use e-collars too.  With one of my dogs and with some clients.
For circumstances where a physical collar and leash is not the right
answer.  I'm sure Lucy has no clue what THAT means!
--
Janet B
----------

HOWEDY janet,

Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again:

Janet B wrote:

.

       "Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
       professora gingold.

   "Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain
   And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation
   Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish
   Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want
   To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.

   "Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
   A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
   Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
   Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
   He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

   captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
   ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
   The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
   Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

   "Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
   Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
   Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
   Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
   The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
   mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

   On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <mhhealey@iastate.edu>,
   clicked their heels and said:

   > Does that include tone of voice?  Some tools are easier
   > to ban than others.

   yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up!  And I
   always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
   "honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
   --
   Janet B
   www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
   http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album

   lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
   Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
   the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,  less tractable
   dogs may require you to progress to striking them
   more sharply

   Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
   the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
   Eventually, the dog will give in

   but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
   efforts to escaping the ear pinch

   You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
   instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
   and pinch the ear against that

   Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
   urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

   CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
   Right Hand,  As it catches on, try using the stick
   and no ear pinch.

   When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
   and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
   you are finished

   If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
   say "No! Hold!"

   (stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
   the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
   it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

   "Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
    professora gingold.

   terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
   "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
   something you twisted out of context, because you
   are full of bizarro manure."

       "Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
       Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
       With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
       discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And  Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few  Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

 lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
 For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
 pass it through the crate door.  Attach a line to
 it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
 if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar,"  Lynn K.

          "Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

                  <except when it is>

     "Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
     just to be able to handle the dogs.  For example,
     we need to crate train a dog immediately because
     they are usually in need of medical care and they
     are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
     necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

          "Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

                  <except when it is>

    "So what?  Whoever said that it's right to
    always not confront?  We sure can try, but
    a dog who knows a command and growls when
    given it is certainly being confrontational".
    You can't simply walk away and pretend it
    didn't happen or leave it for later work in
    every situation." Lynn K.

     "BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
     wrote in message
     news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...

     Kyle,  FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
     and i often call my little dog the turd, because
     he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
     would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
     matter of personality.

     Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
     step on him once. Seriously.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories.  The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

        Sally Hennessey

Nope.  No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

             ----------------

You mean those WEAK personality types who need a strong leader, dog
abusers?

INDEED? CuriHOWES THAT comin from a pervert like malinda.

It's EZ. malinda is a bit of a psychopath, like yourself, janet.

INDEED:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.)  But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake.  I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar.

Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl.

INDEEDY! LIKE THIS:

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then.

She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.

Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?"

"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...

After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
and the vet agrees.
--Lia

From: Mark Shaw (m...@bangnetcom.com)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10 14:12:18 PST
In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@rwcrn­­­­sc53>,

"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@home.com> wrote:

If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system, I have
one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers.

I take it you're considering running the wire across the top
of the fence?  I don't think I'd recommend that, although it
may be worth a try.  Watch closely -- the one case where I saw
a hotwire used in this fashion caused the dog undue stress and
frustration, and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
So be prepared to take it down right away.

That was a Dane, though.  With a Saint things might be
different.
--
Mark Shaw

culprit's dogs MURDERED her kat for standin
behind their SHOCK FENCE just like HOWE
liea's dog attacked her only friend and
tried to attack two little kids for standin
in her SHOCK ZONE:

Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing
bark alert, while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST

Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
it felt like to me when I got shocked by
Hope's collar.
It felt like a bomb going off in my
hand and forearm.

       ------------------------------­­­­--

Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.
Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.

Just hides under a desk in the house.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

LIKEWIZE!

You mean like HURTIN dogs an LYIN abHOWET IT janet?:

       "Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
       Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
       With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
       discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

       "John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
       gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
       rump with a training stick while holding him partially
       off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
       to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

ONLY LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG
TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES POST HERE abHOWETS. LIKE THIS:

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
 I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
 Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
 Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
 to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
 possibly get a good working dog by making them
 unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
 frosty dahl.

 On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
 we have trained require much more frequent
 and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
 to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,  less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in," lying frosty dahl.

"About the ear pinch: You must keep the pressure up until the
instant he has the dumbbell securely in his mouth. Many people
have problems getting the pinch right, either they do not pinch
enough, or they have a very stoic dog in which case case a collar
may be needed to help make the pinch more effective. Also some
dogs are screamers, and if they find that they can stop the
pinching by screaming, they've learned the avoidance technique
just fine -- but not with the behavior you had in mind!

Don't let your dog scream. Use your hand to hold his muzzle closed
and tell him to quit moaning. Some dogs will collapse into a
heap. Don't let them do that, that's why your hand is in the collar.
Hold them up and get them back into a sitting position. What your
dog is doing is trying to find other ways of avoiding the ear pinch.

You need to be firm and consistent and demonstrate that
getting the dumbbell is the only means of avoidance."

YOU MEAN, LIKE THIS?:

Here's janet's PARTNER:

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

sinofabitch writes:

Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?

No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

That so?

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...

The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.

Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

Here's Jerry's version

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

 Here's yours:

"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?

You mean COMMUNITY?:

                     WORDS OF WISDOM
                From Our Own Lynn Kosmakos
          1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft
                       EVERY DAY
                   For Twenty Years

        I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

 "I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.

 I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
 learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
 information I have learned.  But if I were ever
 to post such sh*t,  I would hope that every other
 reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

 "Community is an evolutionary thing that we
 earn the right to participate in by observing
 the easily understood rules and contributing
 to in constructive ways."

 Lynn K.

------------------------------­­­-----------

 "It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
 - she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
 a comment she made about scarey side effects of
 Lithium.  Hardly.  After 17 years on it, I think
 I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
 any side effect is far less frightening than the
 very real dangers of life without it."

 Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­-----------

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems.  LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined

------------------------------­­­-----------

 "It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
 - she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
 a comment she made about scarey side effects of
 Lithium.  Hardly.  After 17 years on it, I think
 I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
 any side effect is far less frightening than the
 very real dangers of life without it."

 Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­-----------

LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03

BoxHill wrote:

 Yeah.  It's interesting, but kind of
 watered down for the mass market, if
 you know what I mean.  There's really
 quite a lot of good work out there and
 decent research.  Thank God.

 Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­---------

        MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"

  MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

                   YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"

From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02

 BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

 "I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
 for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
 the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
 is now days you can say proudly,

 "I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
 taking them it was seen as something shameful.
 If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
 a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
 depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
 "You're depressed, on medication?  Well, can't have
 any pain meds.....you could become addicted."

 The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
 father locked her in her room back in the twenties
 because she was simple. A shame that medication
 probably would have helped her live a normal life.

 No Denna, I was just saying with   Darlene's
 personality, she has a way of making grandiose
 plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
 does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
 with problems could be counted on to be
 irresponsible."

 Lois E.
------------------------------­­­-------

"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way.  The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.

It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.

And he was killed by bichons.

Her dogs had torn it apart.  My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.

(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").

Full moon.

Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com

YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie who'd been in your SOCIALIZATION
classes since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY
MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park.

Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.

From: dfrntdr...@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 00:55:40 GMT
Subject: Re: The Puppy Wizard

Any legitimate advice he gives is plagiarized from
other, more coherent sources.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. :}

PetsMart Pet Trainer
See My Furry Family At:

Leah        Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
               about being mentally ill. Has taken
               several other mentally ill medications
               before settling on effexor for her chronic
               mental problems. Recenly changed to
               another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.

"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies.  I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying."

       Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous
       advice. Google for spike and squirt.  And let's not
       forget the times he's told posters whose dogs have
       medical problems that his halfwits-end program could
       cure them.

       PetsMart Pet Trainer
       My Kids, My Students, My Life

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

Oh? PERHAPS THAT'S on accHOWENT Of you and all your pals
are LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES, eh janet?:

        "Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
        news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
         >
         > Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
         > > When you compare using sound and
         > > praise to solve a problem with using
         > > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
         > > how can you criticize the use of sound?

         > There's nothing more to be said, then.
         > You've made up your mind.

         > But you've impressed me by mentioning
         > that you're a professor with 30 years of
         > experience.

         > So, can you cite some examples of
         > people recommending "shock collars,
         > hanging, and punishment"?
         > --
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
         >
         >> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
         >> will often make the dog either aggressive
         >> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
         >> to do.
         >
         > And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
         > No matter what Jerry Howe states.
         >
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
         >
         > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
         > doubt, please provide a quote (an
         > original quote, not from one of Jerry
         > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
         > shows a regular poster promoting or
         > using an abusive form of training.
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
         >
         > So, can you cite some examples of
         > people recommending "shock collars,
         > hanging, and punishment"?
         > --
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
         >
         >  What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
         >  which you have read so many.  While you're going
         >  through them, point out those which recommend
         >  shocking, and pinching, and beating.  Thank you.
         > --
         > -Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

         > Rocky wrote:
         > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
         > rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
         >
         > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
         > > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
         > > is choking. It's never limited.
         >
         > So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
         > Thank you for your contribution.
         >-
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
         >

         From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
         Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
         Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

         Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

        > I try really hard not to yell.  The times that I have, Solo
        > joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

        Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
        thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
        others' dogs at agility trials or training.
        --
        --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

                         ---------------

       From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
       Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
       Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

       Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

       > One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
       > is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
       > shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

       Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
       much to heart -- I'll try something different.  Right now, he's
       just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
       --
       --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

      From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
      Subject: Re: Leg Humper
      Date: 1999/09/14

      Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
      <37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:

      > By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
      > suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
      > that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
      > the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
      > crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
      > you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
      > dealing with behavior problems.

      Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
      up until this last paragraph.

      Why did you blow it?

      --Matt

      From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
      Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
      Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

      Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

      > the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
      > run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT.   so what does
      > that say?

      I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants.  And
      sometimes my parents pretended not to notice.  In retrospect,
      that's pretty cool.
      --
      --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

         "Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
         news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

         > Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
         >
         > > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

         > Ack.  You just gave him some moore ammunition.
         > --
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

         "dallygirl" <kwickwick@hotmail.com> said in
         rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

         > choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
         > causing more harm than good.

         Back at you with flat buckle collars.  These are an
         incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
         of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
         with both hands.

         It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
         well-being and not an agenda.
         --
         --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

                   BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

                Punishment Deranges Behavior.
        "NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
                        EXCEPT
                  To DERANGE Behaviors.

Here's professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM NO! into ITS face for
five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation"
dermer of the Department of ANAL-ytic Behavior at UofWI, pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

    And how do we know this aspect of his
    advice is right?

    Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
    His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

    (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
    few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
    ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

    --Marshall

      Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
       Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
                    http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
       "Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"

From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps

In article <6s6ea0$8c...@uwm.edu> der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall
Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@pilot.msu.edu>

"Oops!  I would start by only holing her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.

At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry,  I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University.  I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques.  Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

   "We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
   Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
   God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
   Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

Oh, bye the bye, YOU AND YOUR PALS CAN'T
POST your LIES ABUSE and INSANITY HERE
abHOWETS nodoGdameneDMOORE <{}: ~ ( >
-----------

And when your heads stops spinnin, The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy And Horsey Wizard sincerely wishes you and yours happy,
heelthful days, FOREVER <{}; ~ ) >

                     I remain respectfully, humbly yours,
                                   Jerry Howe,
          The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
                                A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
                                  G-R-A-N-D
       Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard  <{) ; ~ ) >

                   HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) >