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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2008Filled with Guilt
I'm posting this for the sole purpose of providing information to other people (that I wish I had had a year and a half ago). In October 2006, I brought my beautiful cat Molly to the vet to be euthanized. She was 17 years old, very sick, and in the final stages of CRF. She fought bravely for two years, but inevitably lost the battle. When I took her to the vet, they took her in the back to insert an IV catheter into her rear leg, just as they had done with our dog the previous year. The procedure is that they take the animal out of the room to insert the catheter (i.e. not in front of the owner), bring the cat or dog back out to the owner, push a solution into the catheter to make the animal fall asleep and then push the drug that will take the animal's life (pentobarbital, I think). The whole thing is over in a matter of seconds. In the case of Molly, when they brought her out from the back, she looked wild-eyed and terrified. They explained that animals get agitated during the catheter insertion (no kidding), and this was normal, and she was fine. The rest of the procedure went smoothly. She calmed down as I held her, and she was gone almost instantly after they pushed the pentobarbital. Today, I was having a discussion with a former vet tech about all of this, and she told me that it is much easier for the animal just to have the straight injection, that the insertion of the catheter is very traumatic, particularly if the animal is old and sick and his/her veins are brittle. She said that the reason vet hospitals use an IV catheter is to make the whole thing go quicker for the sake of the owner. When they use a straight injection, it doesn't always work the first try (depending on how sick the animal is) and/or five or ten minutes may pass before the cat or dog dies. However, this is much less traumatic for the animal. I was absolutely mortified. I wasn't in any rush with Molly (or Alvin). I would have gladly held her on my lap for five or ten minutes and allowed her to go peacefully and spared her the trauma of the IV cath and the back room. I had finally overcome my guilt regarding did I euthanize her too soon ? too late? and now this.... So, today, I had another good cry. Another good reason for having an animal euthanized in your own home, if possible, when the time comes. FTR, we go to a different practice now that uses straight injection (a butterfly cath) and does not use IV caths because as they put it "we're more concerned with the feelings of the animal than the owner." Best regards, ---Cindy S. Don't be so hard on yourself. You did the right thing. You did the most with the information you had at the time. Your kitty loved you and appreciated you being with her at her final moments. Many cats die with no one at their side. Please do not feel sad. Try to remember the good times you had with her. I totally sympathise with you. Losing a pet is hard. But just try to remember the good moments you had with here. Take care, my heart goes out to you. > I'm posting this for the sole purpose of providing information to other > people (that I wish I had had a year and a half ago). [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. Don't blame yourself. You did what you thought was best for Molly by taking your vet's advice, and now you know better. You have also performed a much-needed service by passing this information on to others. I have had to have two beloved cats euthanized (one at the age of 20 and the age of 16). In each case, I held my cats and the procedure was by direct injection. They were never out of my sight -- in fact, they were on my lap the whole time. The entire procedure was quick, painless, and neither cat was stressed or disturbed. The injection was in the leg and did not seem to cause any pain at all. I have had friends ask how I could "bear" to hold them while they were being euthanized. My reaction is that it was my final gift of love to dear companions who had been with me for many years, and the pain I felt was in losing them. I am glad you were also with Molly at the end. MaryL > I'm posting this for the sole purpose of providing information to other > people (that I wish I had had a year and a half ago). [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > butterfly cath) and does not use IV caths because as they put it "we're > more concerned with the feelings of the animal than the owner." Your former vet tech acquaintance should get a solid punch in the face. That's what I think of him. He's a bastard for talking to you as he did, it is entirely unprofessional. There are *no* perfect procedures, no perfect solutions, no perfect anything. You are tormenting yourself for no good reason. The worst you kitty felt was a little poke in its leg. They always overreact when in situations that they are not comfortable with i.e. a vet office. My sister *insists* on the IV and she is about as dedicated an animal lover as you can possibly imagine. She feels the straight injection causes intense burning sensations at the injection site. The IV she says relieves this. So please, you did the right thing. You did not fail your cat. Your cat id not suffer in the end. She is at peace. Now it is your turn to be at peace. Paul >> I'm posting this for the sole purpose of providing information to other >> people (that I wish I had had a year and a half ago). [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > Paul Cindy I agree with Paul 100%. That vet tech would have been looking up from the ground picking up his or her jaw from the opposite side of the room. If it was guy his balls would have been handed to him You have no reason to feel guilty. All that POS did was get his rocks off telling you this no one could be that stupid. Now I am trying to get over my guilt. I begged spirit's forgiveness at the end. I could not let my poor baby suffer. I have to live with the guilt till I can find peace. I started crying again tonight. I walked in the house and called out his name before I could stop my self. I miss my furball so much. I talk to him every night it seems to help. >>> I'm posting this for the sole purpose of providing information to other >>> people (that I wish I had had a year and a half ago). [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > the house and called out his name before I could stop my self. I miss my > furball so much. I talk to him every night it seems to help. Yeah, you're both right, it wasn't very nice to tell Cindy something like that after the fact when she couldn't change what happened. We all deal with the guilt, but that's just the price we pay for our pets' lifetime devotion and love - and it's a small price to pay in comparison to what they give us. I still forget and call Sammy "Bandit" by mistake sometimes (Sammy looks a lot like Bandit did in her prime). It brings a tear to my eye every time that happens. Hugs, CatNipped snip > Now I am trying to get over my guilt. I begged spirit's forgiveness at > the end. I could not let my poor baby suffer. I have to live with the > guilt till I can find peace. I started crying again tonight. I walked in > the house and called out his name before I could stop my self. I miss my > furball so much. I talk to him every night it seems to help. ---------- Oh, Matt --- It hurts so much. But it does get better with time. For me, six weeks has always been the turning point at which I can start feeling a little bit better. My son told me I was totally depressed for two months after Molly. It's been about a year and a half since Molly, and I still miss her, but the intensity is much less. Time is a great healer, and you could not let Spirit suffer. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > snip >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. Thanks Cindy If i did not have my firends out here I would have lost it awhile ago. It hurts but I put one foot in front of the other to honor my dear friend I totally agree with Paul. Advice after the fact is unconscionable. Get advice when you need it, not when its wasted and hurtful. Years and years ago I had a dog euthanized and stayed with him. They must have been doing a straight injection because they kept missing his vein and it was going on and on. I couldn't stand it because this was a new vet that I brought the dog to in hopes of some new cure when in fact he probably should have been euthanized two years before. I felt so guilty because maybe this vet wasn't good etc. and so forth. Then I brought in my cat, who had been adopted on the same day 15 years before, and he had to be euthanized because, unbeknownst to me, he was blind in addition to his other serious ailments. So they both were put down on the same day. I have had three cats put down since, and a horse, the last one this past December 11th. Each time I did the best I could and the last was the easiest for both of us because it was done at home. But it was certainly done with the catheter. I heard the little squawk when the catheter was inserted and the rest went easily for both of us. I loved those animals dearly every moment they were alive as you apparently did with your cat. In the moment of the cat's passing you did the best you knew, and you undoubtedly did the best you could when the cat was alive. Love the memory and don't waste your time on unnecessary advice. bliss > "cindys" <cste...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is entirely unprofessional. > <SNIPPED> Cindy, Please don't be so hard on yourself--you gave Molly the kindest gift a caring person can give. She is at peace and is not suffering. It's not your fault that it didn't go as smoothly as it can and should be. You made the best decision for her that you possibly could. I had to have two dearly loved pets euthanized last year--one was my sweet Molly, also a CRF kitty. I felt (and feel) that I probably didn't have her PTS early enough--she was so weak by the end. And I still feel guilty about waiting as long as I did. And then there was my wonderful old, old dog Kellie--she was a fabulous mutt of dubious heritage but such a loving, giving dog. I wonder if I made the decision too early and I grieve and feel guilty. It truly is an awful decision to have to make. It's the worst part of being a pet owner/slave. I hope you can start to heal--I know it's tough and it takes time--I'm still grieving big time. It's also tougher when you have other sick pets to care for and be worried about. Take care of yourself--you are so obviously a caring, good cat mom. Bonnie > I'm posting this for the sole purpose of providing information to other > people (that I wish I had had a year and a half ago). [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. {{{{{{{{{{Cindy}}}}}}}}}} I agree about the in-home euthanasia. A lot of vets will do it but you usually have to ask since most don't volunteer that information. I was prepared to pay a great deal for it to be done at home for Bandit, but it was only $80 - well worth the cost to have her go to sleep on my bed with me petting her. I also asked about a tranquilizer before the final injection, I didn't know if that was standard procedure and didn't want to take the chance it wasn't. All this I knew to ask about from reading this group and another. Cindy, thank you for bringing up this issue to educate others like I was educated about available vet practices. Molly has long since forgiven all and is waiting at the Bridge for you, so don't dwell on your guilt, just know you've helped others and other cats may have a calmer, more peaceful passing because of it. Hugs, CatNipped > Today, I was having a discussion with a former vet tech about all of this, > and she told me that it is much easier for the animal just to have the > straight injection, With no sedation????????????? That's downright criminal animal abuse Many a.sholes who call themselves "vet techs" aren't LVTs or RVTs- they're just hired help that work in a vet's office who think they're authorities and have credibility just because they work in a vet's office. They piss me off so much that I've come very close to bouncing a few of them off the walls- especially when it comes to ferals. This bimbo sounds like one of them. The mere fact that she said this proves she's an ignorant, insensitive, callous, inconsiderate low-life that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near animals. The cat's brain survives for about 4 minutes after her heart stops- so without any sedation or being in a deep plane of anesthesia, she's *fully aware* of everything that is happening to her. No cat deserves that. Cindy, I hope you know me well enough to know that my *first* priority is *always* the cat regardless of who the owner is. So I truly hope you believe me when I say you did the right thing and have absolutely *nothing* to feel guilty about. Phil > Cindy, I hope you know me well enough to know that my *first* priority is > *always* the cat regardless of who the owner is. I can vouch for this, from reading you for years. >So I truly hope you > believe me when I say you did the right thing and have absolutely > *nothing* > to feel guilty about. I'm glad you posted this information, Phil. My vet came to my house and gave my sweet old cat a sedative, then the injection. It was peaceful, she did not suffer. It was still hard, but would be horrible if I knew she died aware of dying. > > Cindy, I hope you know me well enough to know that my *first* priority is > > *always* the cat regardless of who the owner is. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > suffer. It > was still hard, but would be horrible if I knew she died aware of dying. I would never allow any cat in my care to be euthanized without being sedated and anesthetized first. I've had many very heated arguments with self-proclaimed "vet techs" and even some vets about I wanted suffering and injured ferals and rescues euthanized. For some unfathomable reason, some vets don't feel shelter cats and ferals deserve the same compassion, respect and dignity as our own cats. Some vets add sedation and anesthesia to their euthanasia fee but don't use them if the owner isn't present. So, I strongly advise everyone to be present when the time comes. Phil > I would never allow any cat in my care to be euthanized without being > sedated and anesthetized first. I've had many very heated arguments with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > respect > and dignity as our own cats. So horrible. > Some vets add sedation and anesthesia to their euthanasia fee but don't > use > them if the owner isn't present. So, I strongly advise everyone to be > present when the time comes. Unbelieveable. >> Today, I was having a discussion with a former vet tech about all of >> this, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > With no sedation????????????? That's downright criminal animal abuse > Many Oh, see, I must have read that wrong. I thought the tech was talking about just the injection of *sedative* instead of an IV to "push" the sedative - not a single injection of the euth agent. That's a whole 'nother issue then - any ethical vet *MUST* give a sedative first and wait for it to take effect or is *is* animal abuse just as Phil said. If that was what the "tech" was trying to say then, yes, ignore the idiot! Hugs, CatNipped > a.sholes who call themselves "vet techs" aren't LVTs or RVTs- they're just > hired help that work in a vet's office who think they're authorities and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Phil >> Today, I was having a discussion with a former vet tech about all of >> this, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Phil My two cats were euthanized by what I described as "straight injection." However, they were sedated first -- but there was no catheter. I held them on my lap the entire time. It was very fast and I believe it was painless. MaryL In my mind, we are all learning. That is why we have groups like this. We are LEARNING!!! Some vet techs probably shouldn't be where they are (they are probably only there for the paycheck). Other vet techs make honest mistakes. Few vet techs are "guilty". The vet tech may very well have said the wrong thing! Very much so. I TOTALLY agree that the one mentioned above in Cindys case should probably have not said anything at all, except to educate. I think to make an issue out of a past issue is wrong. Knowledge, on the other hand should never be wasted. With a grain of luck, the Vet tech learns something about common courtesy and respect for a beloved pet and that pets life long friend. You also have to remember that some of these vet techs are in their very early twenties hoping to become vets someday themselves. What is the point of establishing blame? The question is... Can we move forward to gain some knowledge and peace from the situation? What good does it do to issue blame? We just have to deal with our loss... The loss is that a beloved pet is now missing from our lives. All we can do is go on and try to heal. Blaming is not the honest solution to the dilema. Believe, blame may work for awhile... but the effects are not lasting. Hope this isn't taken wrong... Melissa > > The cat's brain survives for about 4 minutes after her heart stops- so > > without any sedation or being in a deep plane of anesthesia, she's *fully [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > My two cats were euthanized by what I described as "straight injection." "Straight injection" usually means the fatal injection with no sedation or an "intracardiac injection". > However, they were sedated first -- but there was no catheter. I wouldn't call that a "straight injection". I held them > on my lap the entire time. It was very fast and I believe it was painless. You did the right thing. Phil >> > The cat's brain survives for about 4 minutes after her heart stops- so >> > without any sedation or being in a deep plane of anesthesia, she's [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > I wouldn't call that a "straight injection". Phil, is not the injection itself a fatal overdose of a sedative? When Jade had to be put down, that is what my vet said it was and why she did not pre-sedate her. Paul > Phil, is not the injection itself a fatal overdose of a sedative? Sedative or anesthetic. When Jade > had to be put down, that is what my vet said it was and why she did not > pre-sedate her. An IM sedative makes the cat unaware of the venipuncture for the fatal IV injection. Venipunctures in cats can be difficult and painful - especially if the cat struggles or is dehydrated. > > Phil, is not the injection itself a fatal overdose of a sedative? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > injection. Venipunctures in cats can be difficult and painful - especially > if the cat struggles or is dehydrated. We had a dog live to be 19, and had to be put down. They did a sedative, but had some trouble with the I.V. I will be honest I was so distraught I don't remember what happened in what order necessarily, but the problem was as somebody said before, she was so old that many veins had collapsed or become brittle. They did take her out of the room for just a minute then brought her back in, which sounds like the first scenareo. This was a vet that we totally loved and trusted, and he sent us a PLAQUE with her picture on it as a token of sympathy, and with her age she was his longest running patient. We were so touched. I *think* they had the problem with the direct injection first, because of the bad veins, and he said they didn't want to draw it out any longer than possible, so they did it the other way. It was over in a few minutes after that, I don't think drawing it out any longer would benefit the pet or the owner. I sat with her all morning before that, and thanked her for everything. Call me corny but I felt like she knew what I meant. Not a pleasant thing, EVER to do, but we were blown away by the vet's compassion and how he handled a VERY difficult situation for a pet owner. On Feb 15, 3:10 pm, "Phil P." <p...@maxshouse.com> wrote: > "Paul M. Cook" <pmc...@gte.net> wrote in > messagenews:v6ltj.1533$0%3.170@trnddc06... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > injection. Venipunctures in cats can be difficult and painful - especially > if the cat struggles or is dehydrated. >We had a dog live to be 19, and had to be put down. They did a sedative, but had some trouble with the I.V. I will be honest I was so distraught I don't remember what happened in what order necessarily, but the problem was as somebody said before, she was so old that many veins had collapsed or become brittle. That's what was told to me as the reason my current vet does not use a catheter - because the insertion of such is difficult and painful in an older/sick animal whose veins have become collapsed or brittle. >They did take her out of the room for just a minute then brought her back in, which sounds like the first scenario. Exactly. My current vet does not take animals out of the room unless they need more room to maneuver in which case the door between the exam room and the back room is always left open so the owner can see everything that is going on. >This was a vet that we totally loved and trusted, and he sent us a PLAQUE with her picture on it as a token of sympathy, and with her age she was his longest running patient. We were so touched. I *think* they had the problem with the direct injection first, because of the bad veins, and he said they didn't want to draw it out any longer than possible, so they did it the other way. I'm confused. The bad veins make it difficult to insert the catheter, which is why someone might look to direct injection, not the other way around. Or am I not understanding what you're saying? > It was over in a few minutes after that, I don't think drawing it out any longer would benefit the pet or the owner. I sat with her all morning before that, and thanked her for everything. Call me corny but I felt like she knew what I meant. It's not corny at all. After Molly was gone, the vet asked me if I wanted to be alone with her for a while. I said "No, whatever I had to say to her, I told her when she was alive." And it was true. I thank my animals every day for being such good friends. Best regards, ---Cindy S. Not a pleasant thing, EVER to do, but we were blown away by the vet's compassion and how he handled a VERY difficult situation for a pet owner. >> > The cat's brain survives for about 4 minutes after her heart stops- so >> > without any sedation or being in a deep plane of anesthesia, she's [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Phil Okay, thanks. I obviously used the wrong terminology. MaryL On Feb 15, 8:28 pm, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote: > >> > The cat's brain survives for about 4 minutes after her heart stops- so > >> > without any sedation or being in a deep plane of anesthesia, she's [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > MaryL For the originator of this topic: Some people don't have the common sense to realize when to MYOB and KYMS and your "former vet tech" conversationalist fits this profile, IMHO. Kinda like discussing various ways to remove life support from your hoomin terminal or brain-dead patient...... eeeeeeeeww. Posted as a former long-term hoomin 'medical worker who urges you not to dwell on this, the opinion of one not-even-a-vet person! As in: my former profession does not qualify me to give medical advice like a doctor......harsh but true. Please relieve your anguish and frustration by creating a memorial tribute to your old kitty on an appropriate website like Petloss.com. >> > The cat's brain survives for about 4 minutes after her heart stops- so >> > without any sedation or being in a deep plane of anesthesia, she's [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > I wouldn't call that a "straight injection". -------- That was a misunderstanding on my part. I used the wrong terminology. I'm 100% certain my current vets sedate first. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > I held them >> on my lap the entire time. It was very fast and I believe it was [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Phil >> Today, I was having a discussion with a former vet tech about all of >> this, >> and she told me that it is much easier for the animal just to have the >> straight injection, First, I want to apologize to everyone. I was away for a week and did not realize how active this thread had become. > With no sedation????????????? That's downright criminal animal abuse There was sedation, just not a catheter. My understanding is that first the cat is sedated with an injection. Then, the cat is euthanized with a separate injection. She said that sometimes more than one euthanizing injection is required. >Many > a.sholes who call themselves "vet techs" aren't LVTs or RVTs- This one really is licensed. >they're just > hired help that work in a vet's office who think they're authorities and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > without any sedation or being in a deep plane of anesthesia, she's *fully > aware* of everything that is happening to her. No cat deserves that. I'm 100% certain my current vets use sedation. The focus of the conversation was about the method for administration of drugs (be they sedatives or euthanizing) via a catheter versus injection, not whether or not they use sedation. > Cindy, I hope you know me well enough to know that my *first* priority is > *always* the cat regardless of who the owner is. Absolutely. >So I truly hope you > believe me when I say you did the right thing and have absolutely > *nothing* > to feel guilty about. Yes, I do, and thank you. And thank you to everyone who responded. I feel much better. Best regards, ---Cindy S. |
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