cat diagnosed - won't eat k/d - phosphorus question

cat diagnosed - won't eat k/d - phosphorus question - all round HELP!

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eden - 05 Feb 2008 18:57 GMT

Several questions, all help and advice gratefully received!

My 2nd 15yr old cat (George) was diagnosed last week with kidney
disease. Was taken in for dental op and I asked for blood/urine tests
to be done (just in case as other cat had been diagnosed incidentally)
vet put him straight on a drip for 24hrs which scared me half to death
as his levels were high. Both cats are showing no signs of problems
other than increased thirst at the moment. Both cats are now on
Fortekor. BTW they go to different vets.

Vet insists I should feed Hills k/d food but both cats look at me in
disgust. They will eat a few of the biscuits (def not tins/sachets)
eventually but show no signs of relish about it. I have been trying
half and half with former food but still no joy and he says that is
pointless anyway.
Question: how long do I persist with this? Vet says if I really cant
get them to eat it he will try a phosphorus binder - how does that
help and do cats generally eat it ok? Do you just use it with regular
food?

Reading through posts on this board I get the idea that low
phosphorous levels are more important than low protein is that
correct? If so what is the optimum level that it should be below
percentage-wise? Does anyone have names of food available in the UK
that are low-phosphorous?

I have another appointment on next Monday and want to be armed with as
much info as I can find.

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Nancy - 05 Feb 2008 19:04 GMT

> > Vet insists I should feed Hills k/d food but both cats look at me in
> disgust. They will eat a few of the biscuits (def not tins/sachets)
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> help and do cats generally eat it ok? Do you just use it with regular
> food?

My 19 year old was just put on i/d canned food. She wouldn't eat it
straight, but when I mix half a can with a half-cup of beef or chicken
broth and mush it all together she will eat it.

Nancy

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cindys - 05 Feb 2008 19:42 GMT

> Several questions, all help and advice gratefully received!
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> pointless anyway.
> Question: how long do I persist with this?

I say stop right now. The cats need to eat. And if they won't eat what
you're offering, then give them what they want or you could soon (within a
few days) be dealing with liver disease in addition to CHF (chronic renal
failure). There are plenty of low phosphorous foods on the market besides
k/d. And not everyone agrees that a low protein diet is good for cats with
kidney disease. Canned cat food is always preferable to dry food but
especially for cats with kidney disease.

Royal Canin makes several low phosphorus dry foods. As does Natural Life.
Natural Life also makes low phosphorus canned food. As do many other
companies.
Go to: http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm

From this website you can go back and forth between dry and canned foods and
see which ones are low in phosphorus. Then, you can buy them at a pet food
store or order from www.petfooddirect.com

>Vet says if I really cant
> get them to eat it he will try a phosphorus binder - how does that
> help and do cats generally eat it ok? Do you just use it with regular
> food?

It's glorified Maalox powder in capsule form. It's in a capsule because if
you ever tried to give a cat liquid Maalox he would run away and hide and
never talk to you or eat again. (just kidding, but apparently cats find it
vile and they would need to drink a considerable amount of Maalox to do the
trick). My vet has arranged with BCP Pharmacy in Texas to manufacture
aluminum hydroxide in small capsules. You have to push the pills down the
cats throat twice a day either with a piller or your finger. The pills cost
$64 for a one-month supply. If you are interested, e-mail me with the
subject line "phosphorus binder" and I will give you the phone number of the
pharmacy.

> Reading through posts on this board I get the idea that low
> phosphorous levels are more important than low protein is that
> correct?

I think so. I think low protein is a mistake, but I'm not a vet. Oftentimes,
low phosphorus foods are also low protein (as you can see from the website I
referenced above) but not always.

>If so what is the optimum level that it should be below
> percentage-wise?

Don't know. My understanding is the lower the better.

>Does anyone have names of food available in the UK
> that are low-phosphorous?

Don't know anything about the UK.

> I have another appointment on next Monday and want to be armed with as
> much info as I can find.

You don't need to be so armed. Just remember, this is your cat. The vet is
there to advise but not impose. My cat, Alex, was diagnosed with CHF a year
and a half ago. He's on low phosphorus (but not low protein food), and (on
the basis of his lab values) his kidney disease has not progressed at all.
You also need to supplement potassium.
Good luck.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

Reply to this Message

cindys - 05 Feb 2008 19:54 GMT

>> Several questions, all help and advice gratefully received!
>>
>> My 2nd 15yr old cat (George) was diagnosed last week with kidney
>> disease. Was taken in for dental op and I asked for blood/urine tests
>> to be done (just in case as other cat had been diagnosed incidentally)

-------
FTR, even though this wasn't your question, why did you have to *ask* for
blood/urine tests on a 15-year-old cat before an operative procedure? That
should have been standard procedure!!!! At my vet's office, pre-operative
blood/urine tests are standard procedure for every cat over 7 years old. And
kidneys really take a hit from anesthesia. Did your vet explain this to you?
I'm assuming he/she did not. Please don't think I'm judging you because you
wouldn't know if it hadn't been explained, but anesthesia can be quite risky
in cats with CHF, especially elderly cats. If it had been me, I would have
skipped the dental (Sigh of relief that it apparently turned out well for
your kitty). Did your vet ever discuss the risk with you? If not, if I were
you, I would look for a new vet.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

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Rene S. - 05 Feb 2008 21:27 GMT

First things first. Make sure the cats eat NOW or they will have more
health problems than failing kidneys to worry about. Even if you have
to feed them their old food for a few days, make sure they eat
something soon!

Personally, I would not feed my cats anything Hills, especially not k/
d--I can't blame the cats for not wanting to eat it. Look at the list
of ingredients--scary. I would much rather feed a high-quality canned
diet instead of this. I found this site, which has diet information:
http://www.felinecrf.org/which_foods.htm

I suggest doing your homework and read up on Feline CRF. There are
varying opinions on low protein diets. A couple of good sites are:
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=003
http://www.felinecrf.com/

I would not feed dry food of any kind. The kidneys are going to need
extra fluid, which dry food just doesn't provide. Here's an excellent
web site explaining feline nutrition: http://www.catinfo.org/

Your cats will most likely need sub-Q fluids and even potassium
supplements. The fluids are easily given at home. Ask your vet about
dosages/frequency.

Reply to this Message

blkcatgal - 06 Feb 2008 00:47 GMT

Rene and cindys have given you some good info. Also, there is a yahoo group
called Feline-CRF-Support that you may want to join to get more info. There
are lots of knowledgeable people there dealing with cats with CRF. Good
luck.

S.

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**Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
---

> First things first. Make sure the cats eat NOW or they will have more
> health problems than failing kidneys to worry about. Even if you have
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> supplements. The fluids are easily given at home. Ask your vet about
> dosages/frequency.

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