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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / January 2008Another Unfortunate Big Kitty
http://www.lvrj.com/news/13001987.html Response to claudel@sonic.net (Claude V. Lucas): > http://www.lvrj.com/news/13001987.html This is about a mountain lion roaming a neighborhood. I thought this was going to be a reference to the lion in the San Francisco Zoo (I think it was SF) that escaped to maul the 3 kids who were most likely drunk off Vodka and shooting at it with a slingshot, killing one of them. The news reported, "True they were doing something they shouldn't have been but did a 17 year old deserve to die? No." I say, "Yes!" If he shot a lion in the wild with a slingshot he could be expected to piss that lion off and perhaps get his arse eaten. It should be no different here. Coward deserves what he got -- the lion did not.  Signature-Lost Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am kidding. No I am not. >Response to claudel@sonic.net (Claude V. Lucas): > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Coward deserves what he got -- the lion did not. *That* unfortunate big kitty was Tatiana the Tiger. Too bad that she was shot. As for the morons that apparently were taunting her, Darwin in Action. Response to claudel@sonic.net (Claude V. Lucas): >>I thought this was going to be a reference to the lion in the San >>Francisco Zoo (I think it was SF) that escaped to maul the 3 kids [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > *That* unfortunate big kitty was Tatiana the Tiger. Oops, I should have said "or was it a tiger" it seems. > Too bad that she was shot. Agreed. > As for the morons that apparently were taunting her, Darwin in > Action. Agreed. Signature-Lost Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am kidding. No I am not. > Response to clau...@sonic.net (Claude V. Lucas): > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am > kidding. No I am not. I hope someone can fill me in with the san francisco zoo story. Is it known how the tiger got out? Was the tiger actually outside the cage and the teenagers shot at it with a slingshot? >> Response to clau...@sonic.net (Claude V. Lucas): >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >known how the tiger got out? Was the tiger actually outside the cage >and the teenagers shot at it with a slingshot? Apparently, the chimps did *something* to aggravate Tatiana to the point where she scaled the wall and moat, chased them down (bypassing other zoo-goers ) and administered tiger justice. Admittedly, I was *not* there to witness the event and have pieced together this short version from things I've read online and seen on TV... Response to claudel@sonic.net (Claude V. Lucas): >>I hope someone can fill me in with the san francisco zoo story. >>Is it known how the tiger got out? Was the tiger actually outside [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > together this short version from things I've read online and seen > on TV... That's pretty much the short and simple of it. Whatever they did, she targeted them and them only... ...later, police discovered that there was an empty Vodka bottle in the car and found slingshots on the boys in question. It's obvious that, yes, the zoo is to blame that even if provoked the animal was able to get out -- I even agree with that. But I still agree with the fact that they got their arses chewed up and I think it's sad that the tiger had to be put down because of their stupidity. Signature-Lost Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am kidding. No I am not. >Response to claudel@sonic.net (Claude V. Lucas): > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >...later, police discovered that there was an empty Vodka bottle in >the car and found slingshots on the boys in question. True. >It's obvious that, yes, the zoo is to blame that even if provoked the >animal was able to get out -- I even agree with that. I suppose I do too. Can't have tigers roaming around at their whim. >But I still agree with the fact that they got their arses chewed up >and I think it's sad that the tiger had to be put down because of >their stupidity. One would think that a zoo would have some sort of tranquilizer gun available and some sort of contingency plan in case of a possibly/probably dangerous animal escaping other than having the local police kill it with their sidearms. Response to claudel@sonic.net (Claude V. Lucas): > One would think that a zoo would have some sort of tranquilizer > gun available and some sort of contingency plan in case of a > possibly/probably dangerous animal escaping other than having > the local police kill it with their sidearms. I wondered the EXACT same thing! If such a plan does not exist, I would not be surprised if their loyalty, and/or care for their animals came into question -- hell, I'm questioning it now. Signature-Lost Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am kidding. No I am not. > In article <Xns9A1AF15202B36lostthre...@216.196.97.136>, > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > possibly/probably dangerous animal escaping other than having > the local police kill it with their sidearms. Yes, the zoo in question has a team who can use tranquilizer guns but this was deemed an emergency situation where there was no time to get the team assembled. The police felt threatened. Although my sympathies are entirely with the poor tiger and not with the 3 morons, I can see why the police could have felt they needed to shoot her. They didn't have time to assess the situation and figure out what had happened--all they saw was a loose tiger and some mauled bodies laying around and they had to prevent further carnage. Apparently they also felt threatened by her although I know that is often a cop excuse for shooting someone but I can see where it must have been a very chaotic scene. I don't care about the 3 human victims at all but I do mourn the poor tiger who was only doing what comes naturally to her. Zoos, in general, are against nature even though they do help certain species from becoming extinct. Whether a wild animal is in a zoo or out where it's supposed to be, the world is a shitty place for them when there are humans involved. Candace >> In article <Xns9A1AF15202B36lostthre...@216.196.97.136>, >> [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > >Candace It seems odd that the zoo would need to send out carrier pigeons or whatever to "assemble the team" to respond to that type of situation. Hopefully this incident will cause places that house and care for potentially dangerous animals to re-evaluate their emergency procedures so that the local PD isn't the first responders. I'm also a bit ticked off that the cougar that committed the crime of invading the suburbs that was described in the link I posted when I started this thread has been evidently sentenced to be killed rather than placed in some sort of situation where it would at least be allowed to live out some sort of life, even in a cage... http://www.lvrj.com/news/13001987.html since it got trimmed... > In article <Xns9A1AF15202B36lostthre...@216.196.97.136>, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > >Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am > >kidding. No I am not.- Hide quoted text - My thoughts exactly!!???? We saw this on the news in the UK too. My first thought was, Why on earth did they have to call a the police for a marksman with a loaded bullet chamber, rather than a tranquiliser, when all they really needed to do, was tranquilise her? At least that way, she might have stood a chance. The way it was reported, or portrayed this story in the UK, was that she had actually turned on a member of staff earlier the same year already, so they changed their lock up procedures after an internal investigation found the Zoo's Staff were actually the cause of the incident in the prior case. After the report, they said that more fencing was placed so that this could never happen again. Guess what? You got it- It did happen again! Tatiana did not cause this incident to happen- Human failure caused it! I also admit that I only know what the press have told us, & the news papers over here are famous for their misrepresentation- Anything for a Good Headline, whether it is the truth, or not. Problem is that once they have said it, it makes it very harder for the bystander to know truth, from Falsehoods here. I just think it was a shame that they had to shoot her dead ,to gain the control that the staff lost. I feel terrible for the parent's of the kids involved, because they did nothing to deserve this: It was yet another case of Human Error- The biggest predator of all...... Sheelagh >"o"< >> In article <Xns9A1AF15202B36lostthre...@216.196.97.136>, >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >bullet chamber, rather than a tranquiliser, when all they really >needed to do, was tranquilise her? I'm not sure that it wasn't regular patrol police with their normal sidearms. >At least that way, she might have stood a chance. I have no idea why there was no on site responders with a non-lethal solution. >The way it was reported, or portrayed this story in the UK, was that >she had actually turned on a member of staff earlier the same year >already, so they changed their lock up procedures after an internal >investigation found the Zoo's Staff were actually the cause of the >incident in the prior case. After the report, they said that more >fencing was placed so that this could never happen again. I've read that here as well. >Guess what? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >the kids involved, because they did nothing to deserve this: It was >yet another case of Human Error- The biggest predator of all...... I have less sympathy for at least one of the parents after seeing him on the tube basically saying that his poor little chimplet had sone sort of right to tease the tiger without any possibility of retaliation. My uneducated guess is that the teasing gave Tatiana enough of an adrenaline boost to make it past a barrier that was considered to be adequate in normal circumstances. I could be wrong. > In article <3c5da3aa-f035-4453-b23f-40cfbd7b2...@x69g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > > - Show quoted text - You could be wrong, but somehow I doubt it........ Sheelagh >"o"< > I have less sympathy for at least one of the parents after seeing > him on the tube basically saying that his poor little chimplet had > sone sort of right to tease the tiger without any possibility of > retaliation. In that case, I feel sorry for the chimplet- none of us can choose our parents but he'd be a lot better off if he had had parents who either cared enough or had enough common sense to treat him to respect animals and not tease tigers Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs >> I have less sympathy for at least one of the parents after seeing >> him on the tube basically saying that his poor little chimplet had [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >cared enough or had enough common sense to treat him to respect >animals and not tease tigers Sorry. I have absolutely *no* sympathy for someone cruel enough to tease a caged animal and stupid enough to tease one that is capable of what a tiger is capable of. > In article > <0e950162-55f2-42c5-99b6-a62b89031b48@q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>> sone sort of right to tease the tiger without any possibility of >>> retaliation. I always love when parents come out and say he/she was a good kid did not deserve this to happens. What always turns out the kid is a moron and should have never been left without adult supervision even as a teenager >>In that case, I feel sorry for the chimplet- none of us can choose our >>parents but he'd be a lot better off if he had had parents who either [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to tease a caged animal and stupid enough to tease one > that is capable of what a tiger is capable of. Agree with you 100% there are a few old saying which come to mind Don't poke the bear and let sleeping dogs lie. If you are stupid enough to pour gasoline on a raging fire expect to get your dumb a.s burned. We have several local zoos and animal habitats round here Every time I have been to one they are carrying tranq. guns on their sides But the only animals to escape or injury someone down here are always due to human errors. Going back to the mountain lions which are known as Florida panthers here I see them all the time we make no big deal about them. Most can be scared off with and air horn and if they can't that means they are sick and the rescue center comes in to help >> In article >> <0e950162-55f2-42c5-99b6-a62b89031b48@q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >deserve this to happens. What always turns out the kid is a moron and >should have never been left without adult supervision even as a teenager In this case, the senior chimp was actually arrogant in his insistance that his spawn had some sort of right to tease the tiger without a possibility of the tiger responding. Feh. >>>In that case, I feel sorry for the chimplet- none of us can choose our >>>parents but he'd be a lot better off if he had had parents who either [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >off with and air horn and if they can't that means they are sick and the >rescue center comes in to help I'd love to actually see a cougar in the wild, as long as it wasn't inviting me to lunch. :^) Usually they stay far away from town, but occasionally one makes the mistake of visiting suburbia looking for a snack. Evidently this one somehow got into a car, possibly attracted by some burger trash, and then was cruising people's yards. I can see why people find this behavior unacceptable, but I disagree with those who decided to "euthanize" it because it "was not afraid of humans". Googling "cougar sanctuary" returns a fairly large number of facilities in many states, including Nevada that possibly could home this misguided cat. >>> In article >>> <0e950162-55f2-42c5-99b6-a62b89031b48@q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Feh. All I need is 10 minutes a phone book and a lead pipe he would change his mind and there would be no evidence or markings just one sore POS >>>>In that case, I feel sorry for the chimplet- none of us can choose our >>>>parents but he'd be a lot better off if he had had parents who either [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > returns a fairly large number of facilities in many states, > including Nevada that possibly could home this misguided cat. Behind my house is a wildlife refuge about 20 minutes away is a cougar, mountain lion, Florida panther rescue group I woke up one morning awhile ago to all my furballs having a hissy fit. I came into the kitchen where we have a huge glass bay window All I saw was this panther standing up on its back to legs paws against the window looking down at this puffs of fur making a lot of noise. The panther just stared at them for awhile. I was scared sh@tless think little pane of glass big dam cat looking at lunch. I turned the light on the panther looked at me look at the cats got down and walked away. I see the mated pair of them almost weekly coming home at night almost never in he day so getting a picture is almost impossible. All the neighbors know to keep the garbage in a locked bear proof container. I had to chase a few of those away myself they are very annoying >Behind my house is a wildlife refuge about 20 minutes away is a cougar, >mountain lion, Florida panther rescue group [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >bear proof container. I had to chase a few of those away myself they are >very annoying Cool. If that happened here Bubba would *never* come out from under the bed. All I've ever seen is partially eaten deer and tracks. > > I have less sympathy for at least one of the parents after seeing > > him on the tube basically saying that his poor little chimplet had [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Slave of the Fabulous Furballs Also Very True! Sheelagh >?"o"< On Jan 4, 11:19 am, "Sheelagh>\"o\"<" <silkn...@googlemail.com> wrote: > The way it was reported, or portrayed this story in the UK, was that > she had actually turned on a member of staff earlier the same year [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > You got it- It did happen again! The previous incident was a handler who stuck her arms under a fence to get something during a feeding. The tiger was able to grab her arms. They did fix the fencing so that it could not happen again. This incident as a totally different situation. It is the outdoor enclosure that the tigers are in. There is a dry moat, then the cement fence. The setup has worked fine for over 40 years, and nobody thought a tiger could jump out. Obviously, with enought provocation, a determined toger did manage to get out. But it is not the same fence that was being referred to last year. > I also admit that I only know what the press have told us, & the news > papers over here are famous for their misrepresentation- Anything for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the kids involved, because they did nothing to deserve this: It was > yet another case of Human Error- The biggest predator of all...... There is some confusion about how long it took to call the police, and also why the zoo staff did not attempt to subdue her. It seems they made no attempt at all. even though there are people on staff trained to use a tranquilizer gun. On 4 Jan, 22:24, "fries...@zoocrewphoto.com" <fries...@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote: > This incident as a totally different situation. It is the outdoor > enclosure that the tigers are in. There is a dry moat, then the cement > fence. The setup has worked fine for over 40 years, and nobody thought > a tiger could jump out According to a couple of reports the outer wall was lower than the agreed standard for tiger enclosures Lesley Slave of the Fabulous Furballs > On 4 Jan, 22:24, "fries...@zoocrewphoto.com" > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > According to a couple of reports the outer wall was lower than the > agreed standard for tiger enclosures It is lower than the recommended height, but not lower than required heights. They have been inspected many times over the 40 years, and it passed. It is too bad that they didn't go ahead and build it higher, but it sounds like it was built before those recommendations, and those recommendations never became requirements. They are redoing them now and adding security cameras. http://www.nypost.com/seven/01062008/news/nationalnews/tiger_twits_in_silence_pa ct_841904.htm > http://www.nypost.com/seven/01062008/news/nationalnews/tiger_twits_in... >"Don't tell them what we did," paramedics heard Kulbir tell his younger brother, >the San Francisco Chronicle reported yesterday. >Paul, 19, who is too young under California law to drink, was intoxicated when >Tatiana, the 4-year-old feline, leaped out of her enclosure and killed Carlos Sousa >Jr., 17, the newspaper reported. >His blood alcohol content was .08, high enough that it would have been illegal for >him to drive, the paper said. Also, Paul had been smoking marijuana, and police >spotted a vodka bottle in the car the pair drove to the zoo. >Kulbir, 23, was also smoking pot and drinking at the time, the paper said. >Although the cops have the car and the duo's cellphones, the Dhaliwals have not >given permission to search them. >City lawyers would like to get a look at "any images and other contents" the >phones contain, said a letter by the frustrated San Francisco city attorney to their >celebrity lawyer, Mark Geragos. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aah!! That explains everything. So the general idea is for the parents to ask a plush celebrity lawyer if he will take the case on, so that their poor **INNOCENT** brutalised sons are compensated for their pain & suffering? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Police have been investigating reports that the Dhaliwals had taunted the zoo's >big cats before Tatiana mauled them and Sousa. >Tatiana was shot dead by officers responding to 911 calls from the zoo. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The question that Begs answer is, "Why didn't the zoo respond to this incident? If they had a trained marksman who knew how to tranquilise poor Tatiana were on site, why on earth didn't they respond to their own incident? It's a bit like a store having a first aider, then withholding the aid when it is needed most?!! It doesn't make common sense.......... I can't help but wonder if there was a conspiracy of silence there too? ( By the keepers in charge of the cat's section) Surely they must have something to say about the incident? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Zoo officials admitted later that the walls of the tiger enclosure were 12½ feet >high, four feet shorter than national zoo standards. They said Friday that the walls >of the zoo's polar bear enclosure are also too short. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a fair mistake. If no one in the last 40 years has had the stupidity to antagonise the her, obviously there was no record of *the need* to have the the higher walls. All this incident did, was highlight the need to protect their animals from the general public- Not vise versa.. I fact the more that I hear of this story, the more convinced I become that Man is the biggest Predator of all!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Attendance when the zoo reopened Thursday was 783 - nearly double the number >of visitors on the same day in 2007, zoo officials said. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No surprise there then. All come to gather like vultures around a dead carcass. The only question is, "Why"? Has there not been enough upset caused? I'd also like to respond to Matthews point about the parents. Initially, I felt utter sorrow for the parents. Whatever the kids did, I felt the parents didn't deserve to pay having already lost a son. However, now that I have seen further reports, my mind is changing. With 5 kids of my own, I would be devastated if I thought my kids could do something like that. I *Refuse To* protect my children from their own errors. If they mess up, We face it, not make it up as we go along!? Anyway, life has taught me that the best cure for mistakes, is to face them & put it right, & admit you are wrong. Then & only then, you can start to put everything back in order. The parents are not doing their kids any favours, other than how to milk a system. Later, they will meet problems & have no idea how to handle it. The biggest shame of all, was that Tatiana paid the price for protecting herself from halfwits with no care in the world for the consequences of their actions, Only theirs! I still say that Tatiana could have been saved. She didn't do anything wrong, other than respond to provocation. It makes me sick to the pit of my belly that she could have been saved, but the marksman chose not to respond. WHY NOT? Thanks for that one honeybunch Sheelagh >"o"< Response to honeybunch <doro_iams@yahoo.com>: > http://www.nypost.com/seven/01062008/news/nationalnews/tiger_twits_ > in_silence_pact_841904.htm "Attendance when the zoo reopened Thursday was 783 - nearly double the number of visitors on the same day in 2007, zoo officials said." If they can figure out how to tranquilize their animals before cops arrive to exterminate them, maybe they should have a mauling every couple of months? Signature-Lost Remove the extra words to reply by e-mail. Don't e-mail me. I am kidding. No I am not. |
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