Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / December 2007
aaarrrggghhh!!!! I am SO confused. Best food for senior cats with kidney/heart/gingivitus probs in UK
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eden - 22 Dec 2007 16:52 GMT Have just been to a 2nd vet with my overweight 15 yr old cat, diagnosed 2 months ago with mild heart probs & start of kidney probs and gingivitus. Cats have until recently been fed mostly wet food 'Hi- life' or 'Sheba' and a few t/d biscuits for teeth (other cat also has gingivitus also).
First vet rec. Hills k/d or t/d - cats wouldnt touch wet version, tolerated dry version but have had diarrhoea. I stopped the k/d, changed to recently discovered 'Applaws' which they love and seems to be very good quality food.
2nd vet today says to change to 'senior Hills food' for them both, because it's consistent quality food and it's important not to overdo the protein content and have low phosphate.
I have been researching on the internet for hours now and am SOOOO confused. My instinct is quality wet food is the way to go with a little t/d or k/d food, however, I am concerned about this protein issue - I don't want to make these kidney problems any worse. Both cats have always been great water drinkers.
All comments appreciated!
honeybunch - 23 Dec 2007 14:03 GMT > Have just been to a 2nd vet with my overweight 15 yr old cat, > diagnosed 2 months ago with mild heart probs & start of kidney probs [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > All comments appreciated! Do you think it would harm them to give them a bit of minced chicken, raw or boiled?
Petzl - 24 Dec 2007 04:33 GMT >Have just been to a 2nd vet with my overweight 15 yr old cat, >diagnosed 2 months ago with mild heart probs & start of kidney probs [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >All comments appreciated! On a plastic disposable party *plate* not a bowl try putting a little drinking water (about 4 dessert spoons) with/around wet food (do not mix). feeding them less solid this makes the cat "fuller" and eats less if over weight. Effectively putting cat on diet
You can use any type of plate I find the plastic party ones cheap and disposable if needed (they can be washed) Cats (often) do not lick water if whiskers touch side of a bowl
I don't see any problems with occasional quality dry food as long as water is present. Any/all quality cat food is formulated so shouldn't matter, the Cat will decide what it likes (Dry is good/better for cleaning teeth)
Fact is your cat is simply getting old and like most, people included, will start showing age and some problems associated with it
Petzl -- A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of a message. Q: Why is top posting a sloppy form of writing? <http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?How_to_post>
cindys - 24 Dec 2007 18:58 GMT >>Have just been to a 2nd vet with my overweight 15 yr old cat, >>diagnosed 2 months ago with mild heart probs & start of kidney probs [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > matter, the Cat will decide what it likes (Dry is good/better for > cleaning teeth) -------- I think you offered a lot of really great suggestions, but I have to disagree with your statement about the dry food being better for cleaning the cat's teeth. Cats don't chew with a grinding motion like humans do. They swallow most things whole or if it's a big piece of something, they bite straight down in a single motion. The condition of a cat's teeth is mostly genetic. I have five cats. They have all been eating the same thing for years (which was only dry food up until a year and a half ago). Two of them had horrible teeth at a very young age and one of them has already had two dentals and needs a third. OTOH, two of my senior cats have *never* needed a dental. I agree with you that canned food is the way to go. Dry food has its place but not because it cleans the cat's teeth. Best regards, ---Cindy S.
Petzl - 24 Dec 2007 20:22 GMT >> On a plastic disposable party *plate* not a bowl try putting a little >> drinking water (about 4 dessert spoons) with/around wet food (do not [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >Best regards, >---Cindy S. Thanks for the reply The claim for some dry food is its teeth cleaning abilties? Raw Chicken wings I also believe are good for teeth?
To clean a cats teeth one really need to do this manually with "Cat Toothpaste"
suggest one google for tips on how like this one <http://cats.about.com/cs/dentalhealth/ht/cleanteeth.htm> Dental health is every bit as important to cats as it is to humans. A regular program of teeth cleaning will ensure your cat will enjoy his senior years with all his teeth intact. Difficulty: Average Time Required: 5 minutes Here's How: 1, Assemble supplies: sterile gauze, scissors, cat toothpaste (available at pet stores) or a weak sterile solution recommended by your veterinarian.
2. Wrap a strip of gauze around the index finger of your dominant hand and either dip it in the sterile solution, or apply a small amount of toothpaste to your fingertip.
3.Holding the cat in your lap, open his mouth
4. Gently rub your 'finger brush' in a circular motion on his teeth, concentrating on the area next to the gums. Gently massage the gums at the same time. It's not necessary to do the back sides of the teeth
5. Once your cat will tolerate this procedure, you can graduate to a small child's toothbrush
Petzl
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cindys - 24 Dec 2007 22:05 GMT >>> On a plastic disposable party *plate* not a bowl try putting a little >>> drinking water (about 4 dessert spoons) with/around wet food (do not [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Thanks for the reply > The claim for some dry food is its teeth cleaning abilties? I know, and I don't understand that all.
>Raw > Chicken wings I also believe are good for teeth? Really really dangerous. Lots of sharp, pointy bone shards to puncture esophagus, stomach, intestines.
> To clean a cats teeth one really need to do this manually with "Cat > Toothpaste" With this, I agree. Best regards, ---Cindy S.
> suggest one google for tips on how > like this one [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Petzl PawsForThought - 25 Dec 2007 18:22 GMT > "Petzl" <pet...@gmail.com> wrote in message > >Raw > > Chicken wings I also believe are good for teeth? > > Really really dangerous. Lots of sharp, pointy bone shards to puncture > esophagus, stomach, intestines. Yes, cooked bones ARE very dangerous, but RAW bones are not. Cats are carnivores and their teeth are designed for eating raw meat, including bones. I feed mine quail or small cornish rock hens and they do fine with the bones. Of course they've been raised on raw since they were kittens and are adept at handling bones. I recommend for cats new to raw feeding that the bones be made into manageable size pieces. I would also highly recommend consulting with a vet who is knowledgeable with raw feeding, and doing lots of research via books and reputable sites on line. More info can be found at this site:
www.felinefuture.com
cindys - 24 Dec 2007 18:52 GMT > Have just been to a 2nd vet with my overweight 15 yr old cat, > diagnosed 2 months ago with mild heart probs & start of kidney probs [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > All comments appreciated! ----- I have 17-year-old cat, Alex, with CRF and heart issues and status post pancreatitis/diabetes (now in remission). Here are my comments for what they are worth (I am not a veterinarian). I have two other senior kitties whose lab values are also creeping up to the high end of normal:
I refuse to put my cats on a low protein diet. Cats are obligate carnivores and need protein to maintain their muscle strength. I don't think there is any conclusive scientific evidence that demonstrates that low protein diets increase the life expectancy of CRF kitties, but low protein can lead to muscle wasting. I'm not saying that I am putting him on the highest protein diet around, just not going the low protein route. I do limit his phosphorus intake, however, by choosing a diet that is low phosphorus. He is also *taking pills to bind the phosphorus so that it can be excreted*. FTR, Alex's BUN and creatinine numbers are close to being within normal limits (although on the high end) and have actually IMPROVED with his current regular protein, low phosphorus diet (in the year and a half since his diagnosis).
I have just ordered a case of Hill's Science Diet Senior canned food. It bothers me that it contains a lot of pork products (which I have never seen in any other canned cat food of any sort) and a lot of other crap, but it does seem to fit the bill in terms of its being regular protein and low phosphorus, and my cats really like the beef and chicken flavors (weren't too crazy about the turkey). I'm not sure about the caloric content. If you need a low calorie food canned cat food, which is also low phosphorus (and is lower protein), I found a winner with Naturalife fish and veggies (and no cats don't need vegetables). But it's human grade food, no byproducts, and Alex really liked it. It also comes in chicken, turkey, and seafood flavors. Naturalife also makes a dry food which is also low calorie, low phosphorus, low protein. I agree by the way that canned food is the way to go as much as possible. I do leave out dry food for snacking. Royal Canin Mature 27 Indoor Cat is low phosphorus, low protein, low calorie and is another possibility for dry food (as you can probably tell, like you, I've also been driving myself crazy with this). My cats like it a lot. But now, I'm going to be buying the Royal Canin Active Maturity 28, however, which is the high calorie one because now they've actually lost too much weight. I think I may mix the two Royal Canin formulas for a happy medium.
Check out: http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dry.htm, http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm , http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm and http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canned.htm
These webpages list the protein content, phosphorus, and in some cases caloric content of a couple of hundred different cat foods (canned and dry). I've been selecting cat foods based on these lists. I also tried the Wysong Gourmet Liver which is high quality and fit the requirements for the CRF kitty, but all five of my cats hated it. Good luck. Best regards, ---Cindy S.
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