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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / December 2007

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aaarrrggghhh!!!! I am SO confused. Best food for senior cats with     kidney/heart/gingivitus probs in UK

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eden - 22 Dec 2007 16:52 GMT
Have just been to a 2nd vet with my overweight 15 yr old cat,
diagnosed 2 months ago with mild heart probs & start of kidney probs
and gingivitus. Cats have until recently been fed mostly wet food 'Hi-
life' or 'Sheba' and a few t/d biscuits for teeth (other cat also has
gingivitus also).

First vet rec. Hills k/d or t/d - cats wouldnt touch wet version,
tolerated dry version but have had diarrhoea. I stopped the k/d,
changed to recently discovered 'Applaws' which they love and seems to
be very good quality food.

2nd vet today says to change to 'senior Hills food' for them both,
because it's consistent quality food and it's important not to overdo
the protein content and have low phosphate.

I have been researching on the internet for hours now and am SOOOO
confused. My instinct is quality wet food is the way to go with a
little t/d or k/d food, however, I am concerned about this protein
issue - I don't want to make these kidney problems any worse. Both
cats have always been great water drinkers.

All comments appreciated!
honeybunch - 23 Dec 2007 14:03 GMT
> Have just been to a 2nd vet with my overweight 15 yr old cat,
> diagnosed 2 months ago with mild heart probs & start of kidney probs
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> All comments appreciated!

Do you think it would harm them to give them a bit of minced chicken,
raw or boiled?
Petzl - 24 Dec 2007 04:33 GMT
>Have just been to a 2nd vet with my overweight 15 yr old cat,
>diagnosed 2 months ago with mild heart probs & start of kidney probs
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>All comments appreciated!

On a plastic disposable party *plate* not a bowl try putting a little
drinking water (about 4 dessert spoons) with/around wet food (do not
mix). feeding them less  solid this makes the cat "fuller" and eats
less if over weight. Effectively putting cat on diet

You can use any type of plate I find the plastic party ones cheap and
disposable if needed (they can be washed) Cats (often) do not lick
water if whiskers touch side of a bowl

I don't see any problems with occasional quality dry food as long as
water is present. Any/all quality cat food is formulated so shouldn't
matter, the Cat will decide what it likes (Dry is good/better for
cleaning teeth)

Fact is your cat is simply getting old and like most, people included,
will start showing age and some problems associated with it

Petzl
--
A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of a message.
Q: Why is top posting a sloppy form of writing?
<http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?How_to_post>
cindys - 24 Dec 2007 18:58 GMT
>>Have just been to a 2nd vet with my overweight 15 yr old cat,
>>diagnosed 2 months ago with mild heart probs & start of kidney probs
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> matter, the Cat will decide what it likes (Dry is good/better for
> cleaning teeth)
--------
I think you offered a lot of really great suggestions, but I have to
disagree with your statement about the dry food being better for cleaning
the cat's teeth. Cats don't chew with a grinding motion like humans do. They
swallow most things whole or if it's a big piece of something, they bite
straight down in a single motion. The condition of a cat's teeth is mostly
genetic. I have five cats. They have all been eating the same thing for
years (which was only dry food up until a year and a half ago). Two of them
had horrible teeth at a very young age and one of them has already had two
dentals and needs a third. OTOH, two of my senior cats have *never* needed a
dental. I agree with you that canned food is the way to go. Dry food has its
place but not because it cleans the cat's teeth.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
Petzl - 24 Dec 2007 20:22 GMT
>> On a plastic disposable party *plate* not a bowl try putting a little
>> drinking water (about 4 dessert spoons) with/around wet food (do not
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>Best regards,
>---Cindy S.

Thanks for the reply
The claim for some dry food is its teeth cleaning abilties? Raw
Chicken wings I also believe are good for teeth?

To clean a cats teeth one really need to do this manually with "Cat
Toothpaste"

suggest one google for tips on how
like this one
<http://cats.about.com/cs/dentalhealth/ht/cleanteeth.htm>
Dental health is every bit as important to cats as it is to humans. A
regular program of teeth cleaning will ensure your cat will enjoy his
senior years with all his teeth intact.
Difficulty: Average
Time Required: 5 minutes
Here's How:
1, Assemble supplies: sterile gauze, scissors, cat toothpaste
(available at pet stores) or a weak sterile solution recommended by
your veterinarian.

2. Wrap a strip of gauze around the index finger of your dominant hand
and either dip it in the sterile solution, or apply a small amount of
toothpaste to your fingertip.

3.Holding the cat in your lap, open his mouth

4. Gently rub your 'finger brush' in a circular motion on his teeth,
concentrating on the area next to the gums. Gently massage the gums at
the same time. It's not necessary to do the back sides of the teeth

5. Once your cat will tolerate this procedure, you can graduate to a
small child's toothbrush

Petzl
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cindys - 24 Dec 2007 22:05 GMT
>>> On a plastic disposable party *plate* not a bowl try putting a little
>>> drinking water (about 4 dessert spoons) with/around wet food (do not
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Thanks for the reply
> The claim for some dry food is its teeth cleaning abilties?

I know, and I don't understand that all.

>Raw
> Chicken wings I also believe are good for teeth?

Really really dangerous. Lots of sharp, pointy bone shards to puncture
esophagus, stomach, intestines.

> To clean a cats teeth one really need to do this manually with "Cat
> Toothpaste"

With this, I agree.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

> suggest one google for tips on how
> like this one
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Petzl
PawsForThought - 25 Dec 2007 18:22 GMT
> "Petzl" <pet...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >Raw
> > Chicken wings I also believe are good for teeth?
>
> Really really dangerous. Lots of sharp, pointy bone shards to puncture
> esophagus, stomach, intestines.

Yes, cooked bones ARE very dangerous, but RAW bones are not.  Cats are
carnivores and their teeth are designed for eating raw meat, including
bones.  I feed mine quail or small cornish rock hens and they do fine
with the bones.  Of course they've been raised on raw since they were
kittens and are adept at handling bones.  I recommend for cats new to
raw feeding that the bones be made into manageable size pieces.  I
would also highly recommend consulting with a vet who is knowledgeable
with raw feeding, and doing lots of research via books and reputable
sites on line. More info can be found at this site:

www.felinefuture.com
cindys - 24 Dec 2007 18:52 GMT
> Have just been to a 2nd vet with my overweight 15 yr old cat,
> diagnosed 2 months ago with mild heart probs & start of kidney probs
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> All comments appreciated!
-----
I have 17-year-old cat, Alex, with CRF and heart issues and status post
pancreatitis/diabetes (now in remission). Here are my comments for what they
are worth (I am not a veterinarian). I have two other senior kitties whose
lab values are also creeping up to the high end of normal:

I refuse to put my cats on a low protein diet. Cats are obligate carnivores
and need protein to maintain their muscle strength. I don't think there is
any conclusive scientific evidence that demonstrates that low protein diets
increase the life expectancy of CRF kitties, but low protein can lead to
muscle wasting. I'm not saying that I am putting him on the highest protein
diet around, just not going the low protein route. I do limit his phosphorus
intake, however, by choosing a diet that is low phosphorus. He is also
*taking pills to bind the phosphorus so that it can be excreted*. FTR,
Alex's BUN and creatinine numbers are close to being within normal limits
(although on the high end) and have actually IMPROVED with his current
regular protein, low phosphorus diet (in the year and a half since his
diagnosis).

I have just ordered a case of Hill's Science Diet Senior canned food. It
bothers me that it contains a lot of pork products (which I have never seen
in any other canned cat food of any sort) and a lot of other crap, but it
does seem to fit the bill in terms of its being regular protein and low
phosphorus, and my cats really like the beef and chicken flavors (weren't
too crazy about the turkey). I'm not sure about the caloric content. If you
need a low calorie food canned cat food, which is also low phosphorus (and
is lower protein), I found a winner with Naturalife fish and veggies (and no
cats don't need vegetables). But it's human grade food, no byproducts, and
Alex really liked it. It also comes in chicken, turkey, and seafood flavors.
Naturalife also makes a dry food which is also low calorie, low phosphorus,
low protein. I agree by the way that canned food is the way to go as much as
possible. I do leave out dry food for snacking. Royal Canin Mature 27 Indoor
Cat  is low phosphorus, low protein, low calorie and is another possibility
for dry food (as you can probably tell, like you, I've also been driving
myself crazy with this). My cats like it a lot. But now, I'm going to be
buying the Royal Canin Active Maturity 28, however, which is the high
calorie one because now they've actually lost too much weight. I think I may
mix the two Royal Canin formulas for a happy medium.

Check out:     http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dry.htm,
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm ,
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm and
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canned.htm

These webpages list the protein content, phosphorus, and in some cases
caloric content of a couple of hundred different cat foods (canned and dry).
I've been selecting cat foods based on these lists. I also tried the Wysong
Gourmet Liver which is high quality and fit the requirements for the CRF
kitty, but all five of my cats hated it.
Good luck.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.
 
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