Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / December 2007
Cold, Virus, Antiobiotics Questions
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Lump - 04 Dec 2007 02:13 GMT I am sorry to bother you all again. You were so kind to me when my cat, Madeleine, got sick and then died early this year. I haven't contributed anything, really. I feel like i don't know anything anymore.
Madsie's sister, Grendel, is still with me. Grendel is fifteen years old but has now been diagnosed with a herpes virus. We found this out when i became concerned because of how she was sneezing and had symptoms very like what i remember Madeleine having. Her chest just sounded congested, so we took her to the vet and that is when he diagnosed the virus. He prescribed antibiotics for her, too and gave her an antibiotic shot. I realize that antibiotics don't cure the virus but that perhaps they get rid of any other infection she might have?
Well, i am very worried because Grendel actually seems worse than she was before. It's been a few days and i don't have a good feeling.
I should also mention that she has early stage CRF and we feed her special food because of that.
So, with that information, there are some things i am wondering and worrying about.
Can antiobiotics make a cat very sick? I know from my own personal experience that the ones for humans can make me feel a little sick but nothing really extraordinary. Ever since she came back from the vet it is hard to get her to eat and we have reluctantly force fed her so that she will have nutrition and so that we can give her the antibiotics with something in her stomach. She does still drink on her own but not as much as she usually does.
She just hasn't seemed like herself since she came back from the vet. I would have expected to see at least a little improvement by now.
I know antibiotics are not supposed to be stopped, but i am really afraid they're making her sick. I know i am not a doctor but my observation is that, before we took her to the vet, she did had those sniffly, congested symptoms, but she was herself, alert, trotting around, happy... but since the vet visit, the shot, and giving her the antibiotics, she has gotten much worse. She is very lethargic and eats hardly anything, she is starting to be afraid of us because of the force feeding and having to force the antibiotics, too. (We've tried different forms back in the past, the liquid with the dropper, the pills and the pill pockets. She actually liked the pill pockets at first but got to where she hated them. We hid this morning's pill in some butter and it actually worked relatively well, for her.)
Anywa, the less she eats the weaker she gets. The more we force feed her, the more she hides and is afraid. It breaks my heart to see her so stressed out. That is how she seems, very stressed out like she just wants to be left alone, when normally, she is an extremely lovey- dovey, cuddley, and energetic cat.
I am going to take her to a different vet if she is not improved tomorrow. I am starting not to trust our main vet.
I guess my main questions are, could the antibiotics actually be making her worse? And is there anything i should ask my vet about, any special meds, or any exams, any ideas at all?
I feel so stupid because i have been taking care of cats all my life. I have never had such bad experiences as with Madeleine, and now with Grendel. I used to feel like i always knew what was going on but now i am perplexed and feel like i know nothing at all.
I still have not gotten over Madeleine's death this year, i doubt that i ever will, and i am feeling very scared, wary, and suspicious. If Grendel gets any worse, of course i will do everything i can for her, but i don't know how i am going to handle myself. I love her with all my heart and i am afraid of making a mistake.
If anyone has any knowledge or ideas, i would be so grateful to know.
Thank you all again.
Matthew - 04 Dec 2007 03:19 GMT Call your vet ASAP Yes antibiotics can be bad for a cat if it is allergic to it or having a bad reaction to it
>I am sorry to bother you all again. You were so kind to me when my > cat, Madeleine, got sick and then died early this year. I haven't [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > Thank you all again. cindys - 04 Dec 2007 03:30 GMT Hi, Lump. I was thinking about you just this morning and wondering how you were doing.
>I am sorry to bother you all again. You're not a bother, not at all.
If you don't mind, I'm going to cut to the chase. I don't know the answer to your question about the antibiotics, but I do want to comment about the food part of your post:
1. The number one issue (besides the respiratory problem) is that Grendel needs to eat. Forget the special kidney diet. I am now on my second cat with CRF, and I don't feed him a low protein kidney diet and his numbers have actually improved in the last year and a half. For the last year of Molly's life, the only thing she would eat was human tuna. So, that was what I fed her and supplemented her with a feline vitamin so that she would get all the nutrients, especially the taurine, that isn't found in human tuna. At the very end, I went to the butcher and bought a rib steak and cooked it and shredded it and handfed it to her. Molly lived for two years with the diagnosis of CRF.
2. Alex was diagnosed with CRF a little over a year ago. His BUN and creatinine numbers have actually improved. I do not and never have fed him a special kidney diet. The rationale for the low protein diet is that digesting protein puts stress on the kidneys. But the flip side is that cats need protein to maintain muscle mass. But at this point, the main thing is that Grendel needs nutrition. If I were you, I would go to the local Petco or Petsmart (or even your local supermarket) and pick up a variety of canned cat foods and see if any of these appeals to Grendel. It doesn't matter which one. The best one for Grendel at this point is the one she is willing to eat. Pro-Plan has a reputation for being tasty. Just try to pick one that doesn't have high phosphorus, if you can. Alex really likes Fancy Feast Salmon Feast. Unfortunately, that is a little higher on the phosphorus scale (he is taking a phosphorus binder). Science Diet canned food for 7+ year old cats is very low phosphorus. I got lucky with the beef flavor. The turkey and chicken flavors didn't interest him. Here is a webpage which lists phosphorus content for a variety of canned cat foods: http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm But the main thing is to get her to eat on her own.
CRUCIAL POINT: *****3. Another thing is that a major reason why CRF kitties don't eat is because they feel nauseated. Ask your vet if you can give Grendel 2.5 or 5 mg of Pepcid (famotidine) each day. You should see an improvement within 24 hours. You may also want to try offering her some plain yogurt (no fruit).*****
Please call your vet first thing in the morning and ask about the Pepcid. I really think that could make a huge difference in her eating. And please keep us posted. I will be checking frequently for your follow-up. Purrs and hugs for Grendel and you. Best regards, ---Cindy S.
>You were so kind to me when my > cat, Madeleine, got sick and then died early this year. I haven't [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > Thank you all again. cindys - 04 Dec 2007 13:24 GMT Regarding the food issue: One more thing I want to mention is that there is a prescription food called A/D which is supposed very appealing to cats. When we went away for a few days last year, I made the mistake of boarding Alex at the vet. He was upset at first and wouldn't eat. So, they offered him canned A/D and he wolfed it down. The unfortunate part is that it needed to be introduced SLOWLY, mixed with other food, if the cat will eat it. Otherwise, the cat will get diarrhea, which is what happened to Alex. They subsequently admitted Alex was eating his Fancy Feast in short order (once they gave him his Pepcid), so he really didn't require the A/D. They just panicked. But I understand they meant well. (It took a day or two of plain yogurt and Pepcid to get things back in order). Anyway, A/D would be another possible option for Grendel (in SMALL quantities). Best regards, ---Cindy S.
> Hi, Lump. I was thinking about you just this morning and wondering how you > were doing. [quoted text clipped - 125 lines] >> >> Thank you all again. cindys - 04 Dec 2007 14:45 GMT Lump, one more thing: Can you take Grendel to another vet? My gut instinct tells me you should do that. Best regards, ---Cindy S.
Lump - 05 Dec 2007 19:09 GMT I meant to post last night but was so tired.
I want to thank you both for replying. Cindy, thank you so much for all the details, you're so kind to take the time and i appreciate it and am grateful to you.
Grendel is so much better. The night i posted, i had such a bad feeling and i was afraid to give her the antibiotic so i didn't. Yesterday morning she seemed a little better and we got her into the other vet yesterday afternoon, by which time she seemed even more improved. He is so much more thorough than the vet we usually go to and, as i mentioned before, i don't trust our regular vet anymore.
He said there are a lot of things that could be going on and i'm afraid i am too tired to even remember it all. Basically, though, after checking her over, he said she seemed well and didn't appear to have any infections and that it was okay to stop giving her the antibiotics. He said if she didn't seem fully well this morning to bring her back.
Well, last night she was back to her old self. Meowing, trotting around, purring and with the look in her face. She definitely has her appetite back, as if she's trying to make up for all the time she couldn't eat. This morning, she is her usual cuddly self and seems happy and well. :)
Thank you again! <3
cindys - 05 Dec 2007 19:20 GMT >I meant to post last night but was so tired. > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Thank you again! <3 ----------- Happy! Happy! Happy! I am SO glad you posted back. I was really fearing the worst. Many, many purrs for Grendel's continued good health! Best regards, ---Cindy S.
Sheelagh>"o"< - 06 Dec 2007 16:21 GMT > I meant to post last night but was so tired. > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Thank you again! <3 Hi Lump,
It is great to see you around again. I'm just sorry that it isn't under better circumstances. I have been away for just under a week, so only just read your post. I'm delighted to hear that you took Cindy & Matthew's advice because it is very good advice. We are also very pleased to her that you do trust your current vet. this can be a very important factor when it comes to allowing someone to treat your precious little Grendel. Go with your gut feeling & follow his/ her advice. The more comfortable you feel, the easier it is to talk to them about your hopes & fears. They will understand how important this is to you, also once this is achieved, you can trust them implicitly.
To hear that Grendel has got over this little Blip is excellent. Please don't allow yourself to become too worried, simply because her sister, Madeleine, had a similar experience. It is all too easy to become convinced that you will go over old ground, because the symptoms are somewhat similar. In 90% of cases, it might not be the same thing at all.
Personally, I think you already knew what you needed to do, & you went with your instinct's, which resulted in how well she seems today. Well done :o)
Keep us posted with how things are going, when you have the time to if you wouldn't mind of course? Also, thank you for sharing this news about Grendel too. Warm Regards, Sheelagh >"o"<
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