Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion GroupsGeneral TopicsCat AnecdotesHealth and BehaviorRescue
CatKB.com
Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map

Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / December 2007

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Just like with people, diabetes rising in pets

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Trudeau - 27 Nov 2007 11:45 GMT
Just like with people, diabetes rising in pets
But 'Catkins' diet, Weight Watchers-type programs and new meds can help
By Kim Campbell Thornton
MSNBC contributor
updated 7:06 a.m. MT, Mon., Nov. 19, 2007

The 9-year-old Australian Terrier was drinking a lot of water and urinating
frequently. So his owner took the little dog to her veterinarian, John
Hamil of Canyon Animal Hospital in Laguna Beach, Calif. A urinalysis and
blood work revealed that he had diabetes.

As with people, the incidence of diabetes in cats and dogs is increasing.
Not so much of a problem in decades past, diabetes now affects as many as
one in 50 of the animals, some statistics show, especially pudgy pets.

“There is no question from what I know that is published in the literature
that obesity is on the rise, No. 1, and No. 2, diabetes is on the rise
right along with it,” says veterinarian Robin Downing, hospital director of
Windsor Veterinary Clinic in Windsor, Colo.

Diabetes results when the body doesn't produce enough insulin, a hormone
that processes glucose (blood sugar), or properly use it. As a result, the
body's tissues cannot use glucose for energy, and the sugar builds up in
the blood and urine.

Veterinarians say that while obesity clearly is linked to diabetes in pets,
it appears to contribute to the disease differently in cats and dogs.

Fat cats are prone to diabetes because they develop insulin resistance,
meaning their bodies don't effectively use insulin. As a result, the
pancreas pumps out more insulin as well as another hormone called amylin.
“When you get too much insulin secreted, you get too much amylin secreted
as well, and that tends to aggregate and destroy the insulin-producing
cells,” says veterinarian Richard W. Nelson, a professor at the University
of California School of Veterinary Medicine in Davis.

With dogs, obesity is associated with an increased risk of pancreatitis —
an inflammation of the pancreas — which can then lead to diabetes because
the body doesn't make enough insulin, according to a report by Jacquie S.
Rand, a diabetes expert at the University of Queensland’s School of
Veterinary Medicine in Brisbane, Australia.

'Catkins' diet and other aids
Not every dog or cat that develops diabetes is fat, but any way you look at
it, obesity and diabetes are linked. The good news is that obesity is
preventable and reversible, and oftentimes so is the diabetes.

A change to a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet — nicknamed the “Catkins”
diet — can promote weight loss and make diabetes more manageable in cats,
often sending them into remission so that they no longer require insulin
injections. At the Windsor Veterinary Clinic in Colorado, three out of
every four diabetic cats have their disease controlled through diet alone,
says Downing.

Diet can help manage the disease in dogs so that they need less insulin,
but it doesn’t have as dramatic an effect as it does in cats.

“We don’t see dogs go into remission after dietary change, whereas that
happens fairly frequently in cats,” says veterinarian Michael Stone, an
assistant clinical professor of veterinary medicine at Tufts University in
Grafton, Mass.

Besides diet, improvements in insulin have made it easier for owners to
manage diabetes in dogs and cats. Veterinarians now have two newly approved
forms of insulin, one for cats and one for dogs, that make treatment
better. Vets also are finding that some diabetic cats respond well to a
long-acting human synthetic insulin called glargine, which appears to work
best in newly diagnosed diabetic cats that are being fed a high-protein,
low-carb diet.

Another important development has been the ability of owners to check a
pet’s blood glucose level at home using a blood glucose meter. That makes
it a lot easier to ensure that a pet is receiving the right amount of
insulin, without subjecting it to a stressful overnight stay at a
veterinary clinic.  

A preventable disease
Downing wants pet owners to know that diabetes is almost always a
preventable disease if a pet maintains a normal weight. She stages
interventions — advising clients with fat pets about the risk their animals
face — and runs a pet weight-loss program.

“We treat this just like Weight Watchers,” she says. “We have regular
weigh-ins, we create a food program and an exercise program, and we give
regular feedback to the owners about what a good job they’re doing.”

What happened with the little Australian Terrier?

“We sent him home,” Hamil says. “We put him on insulin over the weekend and
changed his diet. Once we have diabetic patients regulated, we find that
the vast majority of them do very well.”

Kim Campbell Thornton is an award-winning author who has written many
articles and more than a dozen books about dogs and cats. She belongs to
the Dog Writers Association of America and is past president of the Cat
Writers Association. She shares her home in California with two Cavalier
King Charles spaniels and one African ringneck parakeet.

© 2007 MSNBC Interactive
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21755451/?GT1=10547
The Master - 27 Nov 2007 18:37 GMT
> A change to a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet — nicknamed the
> Catkins diet — can promote weight loss and make diabetes more
> manageable in cats,

How many people have been told that the Atkins diet is bad for them?  I
for one had a doctor specifically tell me NOT to do the Atkins diet, due
to "health risks" that she never specifically mention.  Yet here, vets are
promoting an identical diet for cats, called the "Catkins" diet.

Does that mean the human doctors are idiots, or does that mean the vets
are idiots?  Or is it simply that it's ok for cats but not people?  If so,
why?

According to the story, cats tend to suffer from insulin resistance, the
same as people.  Atkins promoters have said time and time again that the
diet is great for diabetics.  Yet at least some medical professionals
continue to label it as dangerous.

Kind of a mixed message, isn't it?
Rod Speed - 27 Nov 2007 20:01 GMT
>> A change to a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet - nicknamed the
>> Catkins diet - can promote weight loss and make diabetes more
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> vets are idiots?  Or is it simply that it's ok for cats but not
> people?  If so, why?

Even you should have noticed that what cats eat is very different to what
humans normally eat. It might just be that they evolved differently, stupid.

> According to the story, cats tend to suffer from insulin resistance,
> the same as people.  Atkins promoters have said time and time
> again that the diet is great for diabetics.  Yet at least some
> medical professionals continue to label it as dangerous.

> Kind of a mixed message, isn't it?

Thats life when fools like Atkins just proclaim stuff and
never bother with proper double blind trials, the only thing
that allow you to work out what works and what doesnt.
The Master - 28 Nov 2007 13:13 GMT
> Even you should have noticed that what cats eat is very different to what
> humans normally eat. It might just be that they evolved differently, stupid.
...
> Thats life when fools like Atkins just proclaim stuff and
> never bother with proper double blind trials,

And I'm sure the vets did that, right?  Get the point now Rod?  Or do you
need it physically spelled out for you?
Rod Speed - 28 Nov 2007 19:22 GMT
> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Trudeau wrote

>>>> A change to a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet - nicknamed the Catkins diet - can promote weight loss and make
>>>> diabetes more manageable in cats,

>>> How many people have been told that the Atkins diet is bad for them?
>>> I for one had a doctor specifically tell me NOT to do the Atkins
>>> diet, due to "health risks" that she never specifically mention.  Yet
>>> here, vets are promoting an identical diet for cats, called the
>>> "Catkins" diet.

>>> Does that mean the human doctors are idiots, or does that mean the vets are idiots?  Or is it simply that it's ok
>>> for cats but not people?  If so, why?

>> Even you should have noticed that what cats eat is very different to what humans normally eat. It might just be that
>> they evolved differently, stupid.

>>> According to the story, cats tend to suffer from insulin resistance,
>>> the same as people.  Atkins promoters have said time and time
>>> again that the diet is great for diabetics.  Yet at least some
>>> medical professionals continue to label it as dangerous.

>>> Kind of a mixed message, isn't it?

>> Thats life when fools like Atkins just proclaim stuff and never bother with proper double blind trials,

> And I'm sure the vets did that, right?

There is no need for double blind trials with animals, fool.

> Get the point now Rod?

There was never any point to your mindless rabbiting on, child.

> Or do you need it physically spelled out for you?

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
The Master - 28 Nov 2007 19:47 GMT
>>>> Does that mean the human doctors are idiots, or does that mean the vets are idiots?  Or is it simply that it's ok
>>>> for cats but not people?  If so, why?

>>> Thats life when fools like Atkins just proclaim stuff and never bother with proper double blind trials,
>
>> And I'm sure the vets did that, right?
>
> There is no need for double blind trials with animals, fool.

And thus my first question is still valid...  So I honestly fail to see
what your problem is with answering it.  If you don't know, that's a
perfectly valid answer, just say it.
Rod Speed - 28 Nov 2007 20:32 GMT
> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>> Does that mean the human doctors are idiots, or does that mean the vets are idiots?  Or is it simply that it's ok
>>>>> for cats but not people?  If so, why?

>>>> Thats life when fools like Atkins just proclaim stuff and never bother with proper double blind trials,

>>> And I'm sure the vets did that, right?

>> There is no need for double blind trials with animals, fool.

> And thus my first question is still valid...

I answered that question, you deleted the answer, twice, fool.

> So I honestly fail to see what your problem is with answering it.

Pity I did answer it, twice, and you deleted that answer twice, you silly little pathological hippo liar.

> If you don't know, that's a perfectly valid answer, just say it.

Pity I did answer it, twice, and you deleted that answer twice, you silly little pathological hippo liar.
The Master - 29 Nov 2007 16:59 GMT
>>> There is no need for double blind trials with animals, fool.
>
>> And thus my first question is still valid...
>
> I answered that question, you deleted the answer, twice, fool.

I only delete worthless crap.  Since you are insisting that you have
answered it, one can only assume that your answer was the above mentioned
crap.  Let me guess the "cats and people are different" revelation, right?
Are you HONESTLY trying to present that as a legitimate answer?

Again, the story said that diabetic cats suffer from insulin resistance,
the same reason why most people get diabetes.  The story also said that a
variation of the Atkins diet works on cats to control their diabetes, the
same result that the promoters of the Atkins diet say will happen in
humans.  Yet medical professionals say it is a bad diet for people.

So why is it bad for people and not for cats?  And your glorious answer is
"cats and people are different."

I'd be ROTFLMAO right now, if not for the fact that you honestly think
it's a legitimate answer...  It's like asking "Why is the sky blue" and
you answer "because it's not purple".

When pressed about it, you said that doctors do double blind tests on
people, and have aparently shown that the diet is bad for humans.  When
asked about cats, you said that they don't do that for cats, and called me
a fool for asking it.  So in other words, you ASSUME the diet is ok for
cats by virture that the vets say it is, yet requite medical "proof" when
it comes to people...  The reason why it's ok for one and not the other?
"Cats and people are different."

I pitty your parents for having a brick wall for a kid.
Ragnar - 29 Nov 2007 18:05 GMT
On Nov 29, 11:59 am, The Master
<tar...@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote:
> >>> There is no need for double blind trials with animals, fool.
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
> I pitty your parents for having a brick wall for a kid.

Don't waste your time Ron Spud is a noted troll and only answers
questions and statements with contradictory nonsense. He or she has
elevated the the practice of being contrary to an art form. Frankly,
I'm surprised the Spud didn't use some of its favorite come backs like
"Wrong!" and "Pig ignorant", I guess the Spud is either just warming
up or having an off day.

Ragnar
Rod Speed - 29 Nov 2007 19:38 GMT
> Rod Speed wrote

>>>> There is no need for double blind trials with animals, fool.

>>> And thus my first question is still valid...

>> I answered that question, you deleted the answer, twice, fool.

> I only delete worthless crap.

Never ever could bullshit and lie its way out of a wet paper bag.

> Since you are insisting that you have answered it, one can only assume that your answer was the above mentioned crap.

Never ever could bullshit and lie its way out of a wet paper bag.

> Let me guess the "cats and people are different" revelation, right?

I ACTUALLY said they clearly evolved differently on what they eat, fuckwit.

> Are you HONESTLY trying to present that as a legitimate answer?

Corse it is on why a diet that is suitable for cats isnt necessarily for humans, fuckwit.

> Again, the story said that diabetic cats suffer from insulin
> resistance, the same reason why most people get diabetes.

And what matters is what evidence there is to support that claim, fuckwit.

And that has no relevance what so ever to your question about
why a diet may be suitable for cats and not for humans, fuckwit.

> The story also said that a variation of the Atkins diet works on cats to control their diabetes, the same result that
> the promoters of the Atkins diet say will happen in humans.  Yet medical professionals say it is a bad diet for
> people.

Bad for other reasons than diabetes, fuckwit.

> So why is it bad for people and not for cats?  And your glorious answer is "cats and people are different."

Lying, again. I actually said that cats have clearly evolved
to eat a very different diet to what humans eat, fuckwit.

Which might just explain why a diet that is suitable for cats isnt for humans, fuckwit.

<reams of your even more mindless silly sh.t flushed where it belongs>
IBen Getiner - 28 Nov 2007 10:31 GMT
> Just like with people, diabetes rising in pets

Anyone who's cat has diabetes should have that pet remove from their
care immediately. The cat is a helpless animal and doesn't not know
it's limits when it comes to things like eating and diet. They depend
on us to do that for them.
It's different with a child who is overweight and suffers from
diabetes. Because even though they're little, they still know right
from wrong. Even though there's plenty to snack on around the house,
they should still understand the concept of sin and the consequences
of their wrongs.
But cats an not people. They have a cat's brain and a cat's
understanding of the world. Don't expect any more from them that
eating every last morsel that you place in front of them. That is the
only language they understand.
This is criminal behavior if you ask me, and should be dealt with in a
most serious fashion. Felony charges of cruelty and neglect, for
starters. Maybe even a manslaughter charge if the animal dies. That's
what it's coming to. The sooner the better, as far as I'm concerned.
At least, before it gets any worse.

IBen
Euker Voorn - 04 Dec 2007 14:47 GMT
>Just like with people, diabetes rising in pets

This is because we keep feeding them grains. If you love your pet,
feed raw meat only. Only old-fashioned fools who keep believing the
commercial pet food marketing lies believe that dry grained based
biscuits are healhty foods for pets.

Raw diet is the perfect diet for diabetes pets, and for all dogs and
cats in general. Cats are carnivores!

My cats:

www.jean-kloot.com/les_chats/

See some of them eating raw. My cats who catch and eat birds and mice
are healthier than my cats who don't catch and eat prey. Now why would
that be?
Rod Speed - 04 Dec 2007 20:08 GMT
>> Just like with people, diabetes rising in pets
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> See some of them eating raw. My cats who catch and eat birds and mice are
> healthier than my cats who don't catch and eat prey. Now why would that be?

Because the less healthy cats dont bother to hunt
anymore when there is food handed to them on a platter.

You're mangling cause and effect.
Euker Voorn - 10 Dec 2007 18:27 GMT
>>> Just like with people, diabetes rising in pets
>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>You're mangling cause and effect.

The reason why is not relevant here.

The ones that chase, catch and eat mice from time to time are
healthier than the ones who don't. Some cats just won't bother chasing
mice, even when they are starving.

At the moment ALL my cats are doing great because I switched back to
feeding raw. So they have no other choice than eating raw.
Rod Speed - 10 Dec 2007 19:36 GMT
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> trudeaus34@gmail.com (Trudeau) wrote

>>>> Just like with people, diabetes rising in pets

>>> This is because we keep feeding them grains. If you love your pet,
>>> feed raw meat only. Only old-fashioned fools who keep believing the
>>> commercial pet food marketing lies believe that dry grained based
>>> biscuits are healhty foods for pets.

>>> Raw diet is the perfect diet for diabetes pets, and
>>> for all dogs and cats in general. Cats are carnivores!

>>> My cats:

>>> www.jean-kloot.com/les_chats/

>>> See some of them eating raw. My cats who catch and eat birds and mice are
>>> healthier than my cats who don't catch and eat prey. Now why would that be?

>> Because the less healthy cats dont bother to hunt
>> anymore when there is food handed to them on a platter.

>> You're mangling cause and effect.

> The reason why is not relevant here.

Corse its relevant to 'Now why would that be?'

> The ones that chase, catch and eat mice from
> time to time are healthier than the ones who don't.

And the reason the ones that dont hunt dont hunt may be
because they arent as healthy as the ones that do hunt.

> Some cats just won't bother chasing mice, even when they are starving.

And that can be because they arent as healthy as the ones that do hunt.

> At the moment ALL my cats are doing great because I switched
> back to feeding raw. So they have no other choice than eating raw.

Irrelevant to your mangling of cause and effect.
Euker Voorn - 11 Dec 2007 13:06 GMT
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> trudeaus34@gmail.com (Trudeau) wrote
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
>Irrelevant to your mangling of cause and effect.

You don't know much about cats, let alone about my cats. Don't try to
tell me what's going on with my cats.

Here, again:

Some cats just won't bother chasing mice, even when they are starving.

I am talking about domestic cats here, born on a flat, raised on cat
food biscuits. Nobody ever showed them how to eat raw meat, let alone
how to chase and catch prey. Put 100 cats like that in the wild and
some will survive because what's left of their instinct will help
them, some will starve because they won't know what to do.

This is how it is Rod. Now go sit in your corner, keep mouth shut, and
listen carefully to the people who know about cats and their
behaviour.
Rod Speed - 11 Dec 2007 18:50 GMT
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> trudeaus34@gmail.com (Trudeau) wrote

>>>>>> Just like with people, diabetes rising in pets

>>>>> This is because we keep feeding them grains. If you love your
>>>>> pet, feed raw meat only. Only old-fashioned fools who keep
>>>>> believing the commercial pet food marketing lies believe that
>>>>> dry grained based biscuits are healhty foods for pets.

>>>>> Raw diet is the perfect diet for diabetes pets, and
>>>>> for all dogs and cats in general. Cats are carnivores!

>>>>> My cats:

>>>>> www.jean-kloot.com/les_chats/

>>>>> See some of them eating raw. My cats who catch and eat birds and
>>>>> mice are healthier than my cats who don't catch and eat prey. Now
>>>>> why would that be?

>>>> Because the less healthy cats dont bother to hunt
>>>> anymore when there is food handed to them on a platter.

>>>> You're mangling cause and effect.

>>> The reason why is not relevant here.

>> Corse its relevant to 'Now why would that be?'

>>> The ones that chase, catch and eat mice from
>>> time to time are healthier than the ones who don't.

>> And the reason the ones that dont hunt dont hunt may be
>> because they arent as healthy as the ones that do hunt.

>>> Some cats just won't bother chasing mice, even when they are starving.

>> And that can be because they arent as healthy as the ones that do hunt.

>>> At the moment ALL my cats are doing great because I switched
>>> back to feeding raw. So they have no other choice than eating raw.

>> Irrelevant to your mangling of cause and effect.

> You don't know much about cats,

Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.

> let alone about my cats.

Your cats arent unique.

> Don't try to tell me what's going on with my cats.

Thats what real science is about, being able to make
general statements based on the evidence available.

> Here, again:

Restating your original silly claims changes nothing.

> Some cats just won't bother chasing mice, even when they are starving.

And some cats stop hunting when they arent well too.

> I am talking about domestic cats here, born on a flat, raised on cat
> food biscuits. Nobody ever showed them how to eat raw meat, let
> alone how to chase and catch prey. Put 100 cats like that in the
> wild and some will survive because what's left of their instinct will
> help them, some will starve because they won't know what to do.

That last is just plain wrong. None ever starve in that situation except those
that arent healthy enough to hunt effectively when the hunting is poor.

> This is how it is Rod.

Nope, its just your stupid pig ignorant claim about how it is.

> Now go sit in your corner, keep mouth shut, and listen carefully
> to the people who know about cats and their behaviour.

Pity you dont qualify and are so stupid that you cant even manage the most basic logic either.
Euker Voorn - 14 Dec 2007 14:26 GMT
>> Some cats just won't bother chasing mice, even when they are starving.
>
>And some cats stop hunting when they arent well too.

Cats that are in good healthy condition but never learned to hunt,
will not always start hunting when they starve.

Cats are cats. A domestic cat grown on biscuits may not touch raw meat
when you put it in front of him, even when he is starving. Some cats
will starve themselves to death, even when surrounded by top quality
fresh raw meat. Theywon't touch it. The only way to make them eat the
raw (or fresh killed prey) is by mixing it with the food they are used
to.

>> I am talking about domestic cats here, born on a flat, raised on cat
>> food biscuits. Nobody ever showed them how to eat raw meat, let
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>That last is just plain wrong. None ever starve in that situation except those
>that arent healthy enough to hunt effectively when the hunting is poor.

That's how you think that it is, and you're wrong. You know it but you
can't stand not being right so you keep repeating your nonsens.
cybercat - 14 Dec 2007 14:42 GMT
>>That last is just plain wrong. None ever starve in that situation except
>>those
>>that arent healthy enough to hunt effectively when the hunting is poor.
>
> That's how you think that it is, and you're wrong. You know it but you
> can't stand not being right so you keep repeating your nonsens.

You're right, of course. Once they live with us and are conditioned by
us, they are not wild creatures who will instinctively hunt. Many have
never been taught to hunt, as their mothers were also the cats of
intelligent people who keep their cats inside and take care of them.

Or they might hunt and kill but not eat their prey.

I had one of my cats on a strict diet of scheduled feedings--and she
was really unhappy about it, actually slapped at my feet when I walked
by the kitchen. One morning I wake up and find all the bottom cabinet
doors open and a fat vole dead on the kitchen floor. He looked
completely untouched--though I feel certain she broke his neck.

She was sitting calmly, looking at me, like, "what do you think about
that? Now OPEN THE CAN AND FEED ME."

It was clear to me that she did not consider him food. And she WAS
hungry, she was an obese but hyperthyroid cat. (It happens.)
Euker Voorn - 14 Dec 2007 18:15 GMT
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
[quoted text clipped - 80 lines]
>
>Pity you dont qualify and are so stupid that you cant even manage the most basic logic either.

The idea you're spreading is putting wrong thoughts in pet owners
heads and therefor it is dangerous to cats. I have continued this
topic in the catgroup alone, under a new topic: "Will all domestic
biscuit raised cats start hunting when starving?"

Also Rod, my cats were never so ill that they would stop hunting for
it. Some of them were doing fine or just suffering from some minor
problems, but still they wouldn't hunt.

You should also realize that some domestic cats can become so sweet
and innocent that they would never kill another animal. There is
nothing wild or lethal left in them. Never seen videos of cats getting
along fine with pet mice? Or cats getting along fine with small
rabbits? Wild cats kill and eat rabbits. Domestic cats may not.

I will ignore you in this thread, I will continue in the other thread
in the cat group.
Rod Speed - 14 Dec 2007 18:46 GMT
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> trudeaus34@gmail.com (Trudeau) wrote

>>>>>>>> Just like with people, diabetes rising in pets

>>>>>>> This is because we keep feeding them grains. If you love your
>>>>>>> pet, feed raw meat only. Only old-fashioned fools who keep
>>>>>>> believing the commercial pet food marketing lies believe that
>>>>>>> dry grained based biscuits are healhty foods for pets.

>>>>>>> Raw diet is the perfect diet for diabetes pets, and
>>>>>>> for all dogs and cats in general. Cats are carnivores!

>>>>>>> My cats:

>>>>>>> www.jean-kloot.com/les_chats/

>>>>>>> See some of them eating raw. My cats who catch and eat birds
>>>>>>> and mice are healthier than my cats who don't catch and eat prey.
>>>>>>> Now why would that be?

>>>>>> Because the less healthy cats dont bother to hunt
>>>>>> anymore when there is food handed to them on a platter.

>>>>>> You're mangling cause and effect.

>>>>> The reason why is not relevant here.

>>>> Corse its relevant to 'Now why would that be?'

>>>>> The ones that chase, catch and eat mice from
>>>>> time to time are healthier than the ones who don't.

>>>> And the reason the ones that dont hunt dont hunt may be
>>>> because they arent as healthy as the ones that do hunt.

>>>>> Some cats just won't bother chasing mice, even when they are starving.

>>>> And that can be because they arent as healthy as the ones that do hunt.

>>>>> At the moment ALL my cats are doing great because I switched
>>>>> back to feeding raw. So they have no other choice than eating raw.

>>>> Irrelevant to your mangling of cause and effect.

>>> You don't know much about cats,

>> Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.

>>> let alone about my cats.

>> Your cats arent unique.

>>> Don't try to tell me what's going on with my cats.

>> Thats what real science is about, being able to make
>> general statements based on the evidence available.

>>> Here, again:

>> Restating your original silly claims changes nothing.

>>> Some cats just won't bother chasing mice, even when they are starving.

>> And some cats stop hunting when they arent well too.

>>> I am talking about domestic cats here, born on a flat, raised on cat
>>> food biscuits. Nobody ever showed them how to eat raw meat, let
>>> alone how to chase and catch prey. Put 100 cats like that in the
>>> wild and some will survive because what's left of their instinct will
>>> help them, some will starve because they won't know what to do.

>> That last is just plain wrong. None ever starve in that situation except those
>> that arent healthy enough to hunt effectively when the hunting is poor.

>>> This is how it is Rod.

>> Nope, its just your stupid pig ignorant claim about how it is.

>>> Now go sit in your corner, keep mouth shut, and listen carefully
>>> to the people who know about cats and their behaviour.

>> Pity you dont qualify and are so stupid that you
>> cant even manage the most basic logic either.

> The idea you're spreading

Not 'spreading' any 'idea', JUST rubbing your stupid nose in the FACT that you
are utterly mangling cause and effect and cant manage even the most basic logic.

> is putting wrong thoughts in pet owners heads and therefor it is dangerous to cats.

Mindlessly silly. I havent said a damned thing thats 'dangerous to cats'

> I have continued this topic in the catgroup alone, under a new topic:
> "Will all domestic biscuit raised cats start hunting when starving?"

Corse they will. Thats what happens when cats go wild when abandoned etc.

> Also Rod, my cats were never so ill that they would stop hunting for it.

Irrelevant to what happens when cats get sick enough to stop hunting.

> Some of them were doing fine or just suffering from
> some minor problems, but still they wouldn't hunt.

Irrelevant to what can happen with cats that do hunt and get sick.

> You should also realize that some domestic cats can become
> so sweet and innocent that they would never kill another animal.

Mindlessly silly, particularly when there is no other food available.

> There is nothing wild or lethal left in them.

Mindlessly silly, particularly when there is no other food available.

> Never seen videos of cats getting along fine with pet mice?

Irrelevant to what they would do if there is no other food available.

> Or cats getting along fine with small rabbits?

Irrelevant to what they would do if there is no other food available.

> Wild cats kill and eat rabbits. Domestic cats may not.

Irrelevant to what they would do if there is no other food available.

And even someone as stupid as you should realise that wild cats must
have been domestic cats at one time with the ones that went wild.

> I will ignore you in this thread,

Great, there is only so much mindless silly sh.t anyone should have to put up with.

> I will continue in the other thread in the cat group.

There is only so much mindless silly sh.t anyone should have to put up with.
You're welcome to rave on to yourself there for as long as you like.
Euker Voorn - 14 Dec 2007 19:52 GMT
Why are you so agressive Rod? Are you eating too much raw meat? lol
Rod Speed - 14 Dec 2007 20:39 GMT
> Why are you so agressive Rod?

Why do you suffer from ear to ear dog sh.t, Euker ?

> Are you eating too much raw meat? lol

Any 2 year old could leave that for dead.

Get one to help you before posting again, if anyone is
actually stupid enough to let you anywhere near one.
Euker Voorn - 14 Dec 2007 21:19 GMT
>> Why are you so agressive Rod?
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Get one to help you before posting again, if anyone is
>actually stupid enough to let you anywhere near one.

1) When was the last time you had your rabies shot?

2) Have you been biitten by a fox or bat lately?

lol
Rod Speed - 14 Dec 2007 21:34 GMT
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>> Why are you so agressive Rod?

>> Why do you suffer from ear to ear dog sh.t, Euker ?

>>> Are you eating too much raw meat? lol

>> Any 2 year old could leave that for dead.

>> Get one to help you before posting again, if anyone is
>> actually stupid enough to let you anywhere near one.

> 1) When was the last time you had your rabies shot?

Dont need one, there is no rabies in my country.

> 2) Have you been biitten by a fox or bat lately?

Havent been bitten by either, ever, you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/liar.
Wildhare - 15 Dec 2007 00:32 GMT
> >> Euker Voorn <eukervo...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >>> Why are you so agressive Rod?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Dont need one, there is no rabies in my country.

Lets all guess what planet the spud is from.
I suppose you are next going to claim that their are no stupid people
where you come from. Yet there you sit big as life.

W.
Rod Speed - 15 Dec 2007 01:06 GMT
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> Why are you so agressive Rod?

>>>> Why do you suffer from ear to ear dog sh.t, Euker ?

>>>>> Are you eating too much raw meat? lol

>>>> Any 2 year old could leave that for dead.

>>>> Get one to help you before posting again, if anyone is
>>>> actually stupid enough to let you anywhere near one.

>>> 1) When was the last time you had your rabies shot?

>> Dont need one, there is no rabies in my country.

> Lets all guess what planet the spud is from.

So stupid and pig ignorant that it hasnt even noticed that some countrys are rabids free.
Wildhare - 15 Dec 2007 01:59 GMT
> >> Euker Voorn <eukervo...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >>>> Euker Voorn <eukervo...@hotmail.com> wrote
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> So stupid and pig ignorant that it hasnt even noticed that some countrys are rabids free.

I love when fools think they can control and eradicate a virius that
is wild fauna born like rabies. Even in the UK where claims of a
rabies free country have been touted since the early 20th century new
forms of lyssavirus have sprung up in recent years.

Ron Spud is a gas bag idiot.

W.
Rod Speed - 15 Dec 2007 03:01 GMT
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>> Why are you so agressive Rod?

>>>>>> Why do you suffer from ear to ear dog sh.t, Euker ?

>>>>>>> Are you eating too much raw meat? lol

>>>>>> Any 2 year old could leave that for dead.
>>>>>> Get one to help you before posting again, if anyone is
>>>>>> actually stupid enough to let you anywhere near one.

>>>>> 1) When was the last time you had your rabies shot?

>>>> Dont need one, there is no rabies in my country.

>>> Lets all guess what planet the spud is from.

>> So stupid and pig ignorant that it hasnt even
>> noticed that some countrys are rabies free.

> I love when fools think they can control and eradicate
> a virius that is wild fauna born like rabies.

Dont need to control or eradicate rabies in a country that has never ever had it, fool.

> Even in the UK where claims of a rabies free country have been touted since
> the early 20th century new forms of lyssavirus have sprung up in recent years.

Irrelevant to what happens in a country that just happens to
be an island where there never ever has been rabies, fool.
Wildhare - 15 Dec 2007 15:29 GMT
> >> Wildhare <themouthofsauron1...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >>>> Euker Voorn <eukervo...@hotmail.com> wrote
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Yeah keep believing that, retard.

W.
Rod Speed - 15 Dec 2007 18:59 GMT
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>> Why are you so agressive Rod?

>>>>>>>> Why do you suffer from ear to ear dog sh.t, Euker ?

>>>>>>>>> Are you eating too much raw meat? lol

>>>>>>>> Any 2 year old could leave that for dead.
>>>>>>>> Get one to help you before posting again, if anyone is
>>>>>>>> actually stupid enough to let you anywhere near one.

>>>>>>> 1) When was the last time you had your rabies shot?
>>>>>> Dont need one, there is no rabies in my country.

>>>>> Lets all guess what planet the spud is from.

>>>> So stupid and pig ignorant that it hasnt even
>>>> noticed that some countrys are rabies free.

>>> I love when fools think they can control and eradicate
>>> a virius that is wild fauna born like rabies.

>> Dont need to control or eradicate rabies in a country that has never ever had it, fool.

>>> Even in the UK where claims of a rabies free country have been touted since
>>> the early 20th century new forms of lyssavirus have sprung up in recent years.

>> Irrelevant to what happens in a country that just happens
>> to be an island where there never ever has been rabies, fool

> Yeah keep believing that, retard.

I know it thanks, fuckwit. There have been just THREE cases of humans with
rabies in this country and ALL of those got it while outside the country, fuckwit.
Wildhare - 18 Dec 2007 03:35 GMT
> >> Wildhare <themouthofsauron1...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >>>> Wildhare <themouthofsauron1...@hotmail.com> wrote
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> I know it thanks, fuckwit. There have been just THREE cases of humans with
> rabies in this country and ALL of those got it while outside the country, fuckwit.- Hide quoted text -

Just because there have been no native cases of human contraction it
doesn't mean that the virus does not exist on your magical island. It
only means it is so rare that so far it has escaped detection.

SPUD, stop pulling all your so-called facts out of your a.s, you
freaking gas bag.

W.
Rod Speed - 18 Dec 2007 05:01 GMT
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you so agressive Rod?

>>>>>>>>>> Why do you suffer from ear to ear dog sh.t, Euker ?

>>>>>>>>>>> Are you eating too much raw meat? lol

>>>>>>>>>> Any 2 year old could leave that for dead.
>>>>>>>>>> Get one to help you before posting again, if anyone is
>>>>>>>>>> actually stupid enough to let you anywhere near one.

>>>>>>>>> 1) When was the last time you had your rabies shot?

>>>>>>>> Dont need one, there is no rabies in my country.

>>>>>>> Lets all guess what planet the spud is from.

>>>>>> So stupid and pig ignorant that it hasnt even
>>>>>> noticed that some countrys are rabies free.

>>>>> I love when fools think they can control and eradicate
>>>>> a virius that is wild fauna born like rabies.

>>>> Dont need to control or eradicate rabies in a country that has never ever had it, fool.

>>>>> Even in the UK where claims of a rabies free country have been
>>>>> touted since the early 20th century new forms of lyssavirus have
>>>>> sprung up in recent years.

>>>> Irrelevant to what happens in a country that just happens
>>>> to be an island where there never ever has been rabies, fool

>>> Yeah keep believing that, retard.

>> I know it thanks, fuckwit. There have been just THREE cases of humans with
>> rabies in this country and ALL of those got it while outside the country, fuckwit.

> Just because there have been no native cases of human contraction
> it doesn't mean that the virus does not exist on your magical island.

It does however mean that its pointless having rabies shots
and that there hasnt been even a single documented example
of anyone ever getting rabies while on the island, fuckwit.

> It only means it is so rare that so far it has escaped detection.

Or its never ever happened, fuckwit.
Euker Voorn - 18 Dec 2007 14:46 GMT
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>
>Or its never ever happened, fuckwit.

Look at how the white mouth foam is all over your posts, Rod. I've
seen people with rabies before and you have all the symptoms. Please
go to a doctor as soon as possible, Rod!
Orac - 18 Dec 2007 15:50 GMT
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> seen people with rabies before and you have all the symptoms. Please
> go to a doctor as soon as possible, Rod!

I have rabies myself, and I don't see the problem. Actually, I like it, it
makes me feel alive!
Euker Voorn - 18 Dec 2007 17:20 GMT
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
>I have rabies myself, and I don't see the problem. Actually, I like it, it
>makes me feel alive!

Maybe that's different but in Rod's case it's really making him
agressive and I don't know how long it will take  before he will go on
the streets and butcher innocent old people and children. I have seen
this kind of escalation in rabies infected people before.
Orac - 18 Dec 2007 17:23 GMT
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> the streets and butcher innocent old people and children. I have seen
> this kind of escalation in rabies infected people before.

Ah, I suppose you are talking about American soldiers in Iraq?
Euker Voorn - 18 Dec 2007 17:46 GMT
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
>
>Ah, I suppose you are talking about American soldiers in Iraq?

Yes, those too. But Rod is not a soldier in Iraq, Rod is a typical
redneck, living in a small inbreed trailer park hamlet in the south of
the USA, sitting home (in his trailer) all day, being unemployed. He
thought he could let his dog wander around without supervision, the
dog got bitten by a rabies infected nigger, then Rod f.cked his dog up
the a.s, since the dog is only 4 months old the a.s was a bit too
tight for Rod's cock so there was some blood to blood contact, and now
Rod has rabies too.
Rod Speed - 18 Dec 2007 19:22 GMT
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
> tight for Rod's cock so there was some blood to blood contact, and now
> Rod has rabies too.

Been having those pathetic little drug crazed fantasys long, Voorn ?
joolius - 19 Dec 2007 03:46 GMT
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> the streets and butcher innocent old people and children. I have seen
> this kind of escalation in rabies infected people before.

Rod likes having a hard "rod" rammed up his anus until he sees white foam.
Rod Speed - 18 Dec 2007 19:20 GMT
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you so agressive Rod?

>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you suffer from ear to ear dog sh.t, Euker ?

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are you eating too much raw meat? lol

>>>>>>>>>>>> Any 2 year old could leave that for dead.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Get one to help you before posting again, if anyone is
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually stupid enough to let you anywhere near one.

>>>>>>>>>>> 1) When was the last time you had your rabies shot?

>>>>>>>>>> Dont need one, there is no rabies in my country.

>>>>>>>>> Lets all guess what planet the spud is from.

>>>>>>>> So stupid and pig ignorant that it hasnt even
>>>>>>>> noticed that some countrys are rabies free.

>>>>>>> I love when fools think they can control and eradicate
>>>>>>> a virius that is wild fauna born like rabies.

>>>>>> Dont need to control or eradicate rabies in a country that has
>>>>>> never ever had it, fool.

>>>>>>> Even in the UK where claims of a rabies free country have been
>>>>>>> touted since the early 20th century new forms of lyssavirus have
>>>>>>> sprung up in recent years.

>>>>>> Irrelevant to what happens in a country that just happens
>>>>>> to be an island where there never ever has been rabies, fool

>>>>> Yeah keep believing that, retard.

>>>> I know it thanks, fuckwit. There have been just THREE cases of humans with
>>>> rabies in this country and ALL of those got it while outside the country, fuckwit.

>>> Just because there have been no native cases of human contraction
>>> it doesn't mean that the virus does not exist on your magical island.

>> It does however mean that its pointless having rabies shots
>> and that there hasnt been even a single documented example
>> of anyone ever getting rabies while on the island, fuckwit.

>>> It only means it is so rare that so far it has escaped detection.

>> Or its never ever happened, fuckwit.

> Look at how the white mouth foam is all over your posts, Rod.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys, Voorn.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.