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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / June 2007My cats have never been out
Hi there I have two cats, 4 and 5 years old who have always lived inside in a flat. Now we have moved to a house with garden and a forest behind and we were so looking forwards to leave the cats to enjoy.. but I am scared they panic or get lost or a bigger aninmal attacks them (or them attacking a bigger animal) ... Any suggestions? thanks Carmen My suggestion: keep them indoors. The fears you mentioned are justified. You can walk them with a leash and a harness so they can enjoy the outdoors. -- Barb Of course I don't look busy, I did it right the first time. > Hi there > I have two cats, 4 and 5 years old who have always lived inside in a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > thanks > Carmen I would keep them indoors. I believe cats are safer indoors, and they will be just as happy if you provide lots of toys, attention, and a climbing surface (such as a cat tree). I notice that you live in the UK, so you don't have as many predators as we have -- but there are some, and cars are a danger everywhere (just not as many as in a city). MaryL MaryL presented the following explanation : >> Hi there >> I have two cats, 4 and 5 years old who have always lived inside in a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > MaryL In the UK it is generally people that live in above ground apartments that keep them in. They have to be able to hunt don't they ?  SignatureCount Baldoni > MaryL presented the following explanation : >>> Hi there [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > They have to be able to hunt don't they ? My indoor cat hunts and kills a rubber snake and presents it to me several times a day. She does this with gusto, and presents it to me with a great deal of satisfaction. She tires herself out with this activity and then flakes out. The only downside: I have to make sure the snake is put up at night or she wakes me up howling from conquering to presenting. >> MaryL presented the following explanation : >>>> Hi there [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > The only downside: I have to make sure the snake is put up at night or she > wakes me up howling from conquering to presenting. Ha! Holly does the same thing, except that she "presents" me with a little red mouse every evening. I will hear sort of a moaning sound, look up, and there she comes with her mouse and drops it at my feet. It's obviously a gift (or, as someone on this group once said, maybe she thinks I don't know how to hunt for my own food), so she gets lots of praise and "thank yous" each time. MaryL >Hi there >I have two cats, 4 and 5 years old who have always lived inside in a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >thanks >Carmen Can you build a fence around the garden and supervise their first few ventures to see if they are inclined to try to escape? My guys accept any fence or railing as a boundary but even then I don't let them out and forget about them. -mhd > Hi there > I have two cats, 4 and 5 years old who have always lived inside in a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > thanks > Carmen ok you're inthe UK in which case ignore any paranoid ramblings form our american cousins, they keep their cats indoors cos they have much more of a predator problem than we have and wild animals like coyotes and suchlike who will eat kitties. you do nto say where in the UK you actually live? are you near a main road? what wildlife is inthe forest behind you? which forest is it? there is not much in terms of savage wildlife in britain which coudl harm a cat, most outdoors cats are safe, all mine have been safe and been allowed access to the outdoors and to be honest in one case it was next doors pet rabbit who suffered from them being allowed out. just erect a fhigh ence or something if you are worried, only let them out when you are there, that is what I do as we do not have a cat flap and no way to install one either (glass patio doors) but that is no problem really and some cats feel that cat flaps make them feel insecure. If you are really bothered there are soem fences where the animal wears a collar and gets mild shock when they stray further thyan certain points, personally not my bag but some people use them, mostly for dogs I think. please allow your kitties the chance to enjoy the great outdoors, it will enrich their lives no end and cooping them up indoors is not normal or fair onthem. bookie > ok you're inthe UK in which case ignore any paranoid ramblings form > our american cousins, they keep their cats indoors cos they have much > more of a predator problem than we have and wild animals like coyotes > and suchlike who will eat kitties. I'm in the US and I've never had a cat eaten by any "wild" animals. Never seen a coyote in my neck of the woods either. We do have raccoons and oppossums and rabbits too. An occasional red-tail hawk will fly over the area, but I've never heard of him going after a cat either. He mostly likes smaller prey that he can easily carry like field mice (which we have plenty of). My cats have always been outdoors. I've never been paranoid to force them to stay inside. I will admit, I did try it with Rusty when he was little, but gave up when he was nearly a year old. He virtually destroyed my house because he was so hyper. He was originally a "farm cat" and was probably descended from generations of outdoor hunters. He HAS to go outside. It's in his genes. I live in a small, rural town of just over 1,000 people. Patty >>ok you're inthe UK in which case ignore any paranoid ramblings form >>our american cousins, they keep their cats indoors cos they have much [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > seen a coyote in my neck of the woods either. We do have raccoons and > oppossums and rabbits too. And fleas. Fleas (sometimes) carry plague which means other small furry creatures which your cat may prey upon could also carry plague (the bubonic kind). Then of course there are cars and cruel kids, which I'm sure Britain has as well. I'm not so worried about coyotes, wolves, mountain lions or bears although I would be if I lived a bit further up in the mountains. > An occasional red-tail hawk will fly over the > area, but I've never heard of him going after a cat either. Good point - I've seen eagles and hawks around. They're magnificent creatures, but I prefer they prey on rodents rather than my cat. Every spring, I see lots of baby rabbits. They're very cute, but not all of them survive to become adults. It's a good thing too, otherwise we'd be overrun by them. > He mostly > likes smaller prey that he can easily carry like field mice (which we have > plenty of). Which are perfect for plague. > My cats have always been outdoors. I've never been paranoid > to force them to stay inside. I will admit, I did try it with Rusty when > he was little, but gave up when he was nearly a year old. He virtually > destroyed my house because he was so hyper. I'd be interested in what your definition of "destroyed" is. > He was originally a "farm cat" > and was probably descended from generations of outdoor hunters. He HAS to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Patty > My cats have always been outdoors. I've never been paranoid > to force them to stay inside. I will admit, I did try it with Rusty when > he was little, but gave up when he was nearly a year old. He virtually > destroyed my house because he was so hyper. >>I'd be interested in what your definition of "destroyed" is. I find that usually people who say their cat destroyed their house are people who haven't trained their cats properly, or who haven't provided appropriate scratching surfaces for the cat. > I find that usually people who say their cat destroyed their house are > people who haven't trained their cats properly, or who haven't > provided appropriate scratching surfaces for the cat. They've always had "appropriate scratching surfaces" and have never clawed up furniture. We had our last sofa for 20 years (longer than the cats) and it was never scratched or clawed. I guess I could have kept Rusty from climbing by chaining him to the floor. Patty > > I find that usually people who say their cat destroyed their house are > > people who haven't trained their cats properly, or who haven't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Patty Or you could have gotten a nice floor to ceiling cat tree for Rusty. I have very active cats, my male in particular. I have provided them with a floor to ceiling cat tree in front of a picture window and another floor to ceiling cat tree in the bedroom in front of a window. I also use vertical blinds and mini blinds instead of curtains, although I did have curtains at my last house but trained the cats not to climb them. I also made the strings used to open and close the blinds childproof (they sell kits for this purpose, or you can make your own). I also spend time playing with my cats with interactive toys. IMO, cats, especially indoor cats, need their own cat furniture and also need interactive playtime. My male does still jump up on top of my china cabinet. But there's nothing up there that he could destroy. Patty was thinking very hard : >> I find that usually people who say their cat destroyed their house are >> people who haven't trained their cats properly, or who haven't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Patty Mine have plenty of scratch posts and scratch pads but my one cat has to go for the same piece of carpet in the hallway. I have had to cover it in tape. SignatureCount Baldoni >> My cats have always been outdoors. I've never been paranoid >> to force them to stay inside. I will admit, I did try it with Rusty when [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > people who haven't trained their cats properly, or who haven't > provided appropriate scratching surfaces for the cat. It's true. And like "Patty," they all argue about the All Powerful Nature of their Ferocious Cat. Horse sh.t. Even lame humans like Patty have the edge that a large forebrain and opposable thumbs give all humans. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> My cats have always been outdoors. I've never been paranoid >>> to force them to stay inside. I will admit, I did try it with Rusty when [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Horse sh.t. Even lame humans like Patty have the edge that a > large forebrain and opposable thumbs give all humans. You know, I don't feel the need to call YOU names. Patty > I'd be interested in what your definition of "destroyed" is. Ripped my curtains to shreds, knocked everything of the top of the cupboards (you know, the space between the ceiling and the top of the kitchen cupboard?), knocked anything on a flat surface off breaking many items (even the top of the refrigerator). When I came home from work one day and found him dangling from the top of the curtain rod in the living room (the windows are nearly ceiling height, (I live in an old home and the ceilings are 9 feet off the floor), I said "enough" and he went outside. He's been a great cat ever since. He needed space to run and he needed to hunt. I'm not paranoid enough to keep a cat that needs to go outside in, and today Rusty is more than 16 years old. Oh, and we've never seen a case of the plague either. Patty >> I'd be interested in what your definition of "destroyed" is. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > today Rusty is more than 16 years old. Oh, and we've never seen a case of > the plague either. So you are willing to take a chance with your animal's life. Some of us are not. You must be so proud. >>> I'd be interested in what your definition of "destroyed" is. >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >not. >You must be so proud. Everything is a risk and a balance. I fenced in my little backyard so the cats can't leave, but one or another has managed to do so and I quickly got them back and fixed the fence to prevent that. Still, oPossoms manage to get in and out, but they can climb better than cats since they have two pairs of opposable thumbs. So, there is a risk that the boys and girl could get out, balanced against their clear enjoyment of lying in the grass or under a bush watching the birds and squirrels. I decided that it was worth the risk so that they can enjoy a more natural existence. And they only go out when I'm home and I usually sit out with them. Or, I have a camera set up and I watch them on TV while I work on the computer. I have friends who live in West Virginia in a neighborhood where none of the houses have fences and there are lots of open fields around. Their cat and the other neighborhood cats wander around and often eat out at other cat's homes, and sometimes neighbor cats join their cat for a snack at their home. That sort of reminds me of the way I grew up, where we would see what our friends were having for dinner and decide to eat there. On the other hand, when I was living in an apartment, the cats had to stay in the apartment and I would sometimes treat them to a walk in the hallway. It all just depends on the situation. As for the original poster, ask what other folks in the area do. But I really worry about roads, since cats that have lived indoors all their lives have no concept of the dangers. If you can fence in your yard so the cats can't wander off your property, that is really the best solution. See www.CatFenceIn.com. I built my own, but their solution looks good. > >>> I'd be interested in what your definition of "destroyed" is. > [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > - Show quoted text - i think if i had an apartment I would really think twice about having a cat, maybe a really REALLY old cat, one that was FIV or something who could not go out at all, and only then if I had a huge flat for said puss to run aronud in and I woudl have to invest in lots of cat gyms and climbign frame for them. i certainly would not get a kitten or young cat in a flat, not really fair on them, they would go stir crazy. i agree what you say about roads as outdoor cats get used to roads and get to learn the dangers and abuot their locality and their way home, but if an indoor cat gets out they get lost easily as they have never been out and they do not know about cars etc, so they are more susceptible to being hit if they do escape I suppose, sad really bookie > i think if i had an apartment I would really think twice about having > a cat, maybe a really REALLY old cat, one that was FIV or something [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > or young cat in a flat, not really fair on them, they would go stir > crazy. This is why a lot of people find your posts to be rather judgemental on the topic. You are assuming than an indoor cat cannot be happy. Since many of us do have have indoor cats, we can assure you (not that you would believe us) that our cats are very happy. We have 5 cat trees in our house, and our cats have plenty of toys and things to do. When I got Jay Jay, he was an outdoor cat. He cried and pawed at every door and window for a week. It was pitiful. He was very unhappy. But you know what? After a week, he stopped. I have had 2 1/2 years now, and he has never attempted to get outside since that first work. He figured out pretty quickly that life inside is pretty nice. All you can end food. Endless supply of clean water. Lots of comfy perches. Lots of toys. Lots of massages. No fighting. No dangerous dogs or wildlife. He is much happier living the good life. You make it sound like indoor cats are being abused, and that simply isn't true. Most of them have no idea what is outside. My Kira would actually panic if she saw me outside in the yard through the door or window. She was used to me going out the front door, but did not find it acceptable that I should be outside. She would cry and pace until I came back in. The outside was a big bad place, in her opinion. I could leave the front door open, and she has no interest in it. At our house (with 2 dogs and 3 cats), only one dog shows any interest in the door. My dog is a formerly outside dog, and she hates to go outside. On 24 Jun, 08:25, "fries...@zoocrewphoto.com" <fries...@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote: > > i think if i had an apartment I would really think twice about having > > a cat, maybe a really REALLY old cat, one that was FIV or something [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > in the door. My dog is a formerly outside dog, and she hates to go > outside. different strokes for different folks, and we have an animal welfare bill here now which could be interpreted to mean that keeping a cat indoors is breaking the law depnding on your interpretation of it >On 24 Jun, 08:25, "fries...@zoocrewphoto.com" ><fries...@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >bill here now which could be interpreted to mean that keeping a cat >indoors is breaking the law depnding on your interpretation of it That would mean that folks living in apartments couldn't have cats. > >On 24 Jun, 08:25, "fries...@zoocrewphoto.com" > ><fries...@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > - Show quoted text - probably depends how you woudl interpret the new act/bill. I am not sure I would want to have a cat in a flat anyway, would probably just have to console myself with a hamster, unless it were a ground floor in a house conversion, to me it just would not be fair on the cat although i am not sure one of my cats woudl notice at all as long as her bed and favourite sofa were in there too > Oh, and we've never seen a case of > the plague either. The plague is no long contained in California, FYI. SignatureLynne > > Oh, and we've never seen a case of > > the plague either. > The plague is no long contained in California, FYI. What do you mean? That the disease is in the population, uncontrolled? I haven't heard of this, and I live in California. What part of CA, by the way? JOyce > What do you mean? That the disease is in the population, uncontrolled? > I haven't heard of this, and I live in California. What part of CA, by > the way? Rodents in The Sierra (and maybe in other areas) carry the plague. I recently read that rodents in an adjacent state tested positive (can't recall exactly where). You don't really need to worry unless you have an infestation, or if your cats hunt mice--though you may still want to look into it. I only visit certain parts of California (like The Sierra, Yosemite and Joshua Tree) so those are the only areas I know much about. If you ever do have a rodent infestation, there are simple precautions you can take to clean up the droppings and bedding (use gloves, a mask, and soak all rodent droppings and bedding in a bleach solution before disturbing/moving/disposing of it). SignatureLynne > > > Oh, and we've never seen a case of > > > the plague either. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > JOyce In the foothills, mountains and along the coast; not so much in the Central Valley and desert areas. Plague is endemic in certain rodent populations. Among domestic animals, cats are among the most susceptible to plague. http://www.cchealth.org/special/dhs_news_release_jul17_2006.php http://www.cchealth.org/special/dhs_news_release_aug24_2005.php http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/plague/epi.htm On Jun 19, 7:07 pm, jXwXeXrXmXoX...@sonic.net wrote: > > on Tue, 19 Jun 2007 17:37:19 GMT, Patty <p...@iainttellin.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > JOyce Plague is endemic in the rodent population in California and a good part of the American west. Every year there are a few human cases; in a really bad year, there are a dozen or so, and one or two deaths. Cats that hunt rodents in the plague-endemic areas are at risk themselves, and at risk for bringing it into human populations. Bubonic plague is usually not a big deal if it's identified quickly, because it responds well to a whole range of antibiotics. If one of these little local outbreaks of bubonic plague converts to pneumonic plague, though, we'll have a bigger prolem because it will spread much faster. Lis > Ripped my curtains to shreds, knocked everything of the top of the > cupboards (you know, the space between the ceiling and the top of the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the living room (the windows are nearly ceiling height, (I live in an > old home and the ceilings are 9 feet off the floor), And by the way, I recommend that you never get another kitten. Stick to adult cats. None of the above sounds unusual to me... Now had you put away the breakables and trimmed his nails, you could have saved some of your prized possessions. To toss him outdoors for being a kitten and then call him 'fixed' is just illogical as hell. SignatureLynne >> Ripped my curtains to shreds, knocked everything of the top of the >> cupboards (you know, the space between the ceiling and the top of the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > saved some of your prized possessions. To toss him outdoors for being a > kitten and then call him 'fixed' is just illogical as hell. Yes, and in this newsgroup your opinion is the only one that should be followed. Patty I said it once before. When people attack each other for a different opinion it's time to leave and so I will. > I said it once before. When people attack each other for a different > opinion it's time to leave and so I will. I didn't attack you, merely expressed my opinion. Don't let the door hit you on your a.s on your way out. SignatureLynne >> I said it once before. When people attack each other for a different >> opinion it's time to leave and so I will. > > I didn't attack you, merely expressed my opinion. > > Don't let the door hit you on your a.s on your way out. Hey that is my line but it goes a little like this Don't let the doorknob hit you where the good lord split ya' on Wed, 20 Jun 2007 00:06:35 GMT, "Matthew" <Iamacatslave@proudtoserve.com> wrote: > Hey that is my line but it goes a little like this Don't let the > doorknob hit you where the good lord split ya' hehe & YOUCH SignatureLynne > >> Ripped my curtains to shreds, knocked everything of the top of the > >> cupboards (you know, the space between the ceiling and the top of the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > - Show quoted text - don't leave, they are generally twats who abuse you for allowing your cat to go otuside (as nature requires). Just because you do not allow your paranoid fear of everythign outdoors stops you from allowing your cat to have a decent and fulfilled outdoors does not mean they have the right to abuse you f.ck 'em basically when you cat was going stir crazy indoors, as most cats would, you did the right things and allowed him access outside, you did not 'boot him out' as one of the cretins above has stated (how much can these peolpe get the wrong end fo thestick?) you just allowed him access to the outside, same as i do for mine because they are used to the outside and I believe and feel that it would be downright cruel to keep them in when they are crying to get out just ignore them, they are a bunch of screwed up narrow minded witches, who won't accept that other people have different opinions or way of life to them, typical yanks bookie >> >> Ripped my curtains to shreds, knocked everything of the top of the >> >> cupboards (you know, the space between the ceiling and the top of the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >way of life to them, typical yanks >bookie Give us a break from this incessant & becoming-very-boring rant against everything & everyone in the US - you know those Yanks you profess to hate so- o-o-o-o-o-o much! No, I'm not a Yank & I'm also not a Brit - I'm one of those from the former colonies - the one where one of your precious princes is playing big bad boy soldier. Anyone, on a calmer note, everyone is entitled to their own view & opinion without being personally attacked for their view. And you're a teacher, right? I sure hope this isn't the way you handle 'discussions' in class with those who have different opinions. BTW, my cats from 1970 through 2003 did go outside in the daytime in the warm months April - October, but there were no dogs running loose in the neighborhood & I was younger & more limber. My present cats don't go out because there's now many large dogs running free & it's no longer so easy for me to jump fences chasing Coco who in his 1st year here did NOT come back & we often had to go after him. M. >> >> Ripped my curtains to shreds, knocked everything of the top of the >> >> cupboards (you know, the space between the ceiling and the top of the [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > way of life to them, typical yanks > bookie You know, Bookie, you keep rattling on about how narrow minded we are and about how we won't accept anyone else's opinions -- but I really can't think of anyone who has displayed that tendency more strongly than you have. I don't know what has happened to cause you to have such contempt and hatred (and possibly envy) of everything American, but you are simply placing *your own* narrow minded views on display. I have never felt the type of antagonism you exhibit for *any* group -- no nationality, race, ethnicity, or religion -- and I surely hope I never do. It's really a sad commentary on your life. You have already told us that none of us are worthy for you to wipe your feet on. But, then, why would we want to aspire to that pinnacle? And, for that matter, why would want to wipe your feet on anyone? Why not sit down and read your own words, then see how they must sound to others (and not just to Americans). I have many friends of different nationalities, but you seem to have the most warped sense of the world of anyone I have come in contact with. Surely you know better than to think that everyone in the U.S. favors our foreign policy or that we are all such disgusting slugs as you seem to think. MaryL > >> >> Ripped my curtains to shreds, knocked everything of the top of the > >> >> cupboards (you know, the space between the ceiling and the top of the [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > - Show quoted text - so funny how you all get so worked up about a simple comment about you country, keep 'em coming! >> >> > on Tue, 19 Jun 2007 17:37:19 GMT, Patty <p...@iainttellin.com> >> >> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > so funny how you all get so worked up about a simple comment about you > country, keep 'em coming! I'm not "all worked up" about this and only responded after you made repeated comments. Does it bother me? Not at all. I simply think you have made yourself look rather idiotic, and those of use who formerly were willing to help you will probably just ignore your remarks from now on. MaryL On 21 Jun, 00:38, "MaryL" <stanco...@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote: > >> "bookie" <emily_boo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > > - Show quoted text - i don't need or want your help, why would I? >> so funny how you all get so worked up about a simple comment >> about you country, keep 'em coming! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > those of use who formerly were willing to help you will probably > just ignore your remarks from now on. Mary, she's hopeless. I quit reading her posts when she started reminding me of someone else (also British) from years ago. Wouldn't be surprised if she was "him" reincarnated. He did used to morph with women's names when it suited his agenda. Bookie's a lost cause. SignatureCheryl >>> so funny how you all get so worked up about a simple comment >>> about you country, keep 'em coming! [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > to morph with women's names when it suited his agenda. Bookie's a > lost cause. Yes, I've reached the same conclusion. It doesn't bother me -- I'll just save some time and ignore her. Thanks, MaryL >> Ripped my curtains to shreds, knocked everything of the top of the >> cupboards (you know, the space between the ceiling and the top of the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > saved some of your prized possessions. To toss him outdoors for being a > kitten and then call him 'fixed' is just illogical as hell. This isn't what I would consider normal. I have had cats for 45 years and have never had one act like that. My cats have been indoor cats, active and happy, but not destructive. On they other hand, they have lots of toys and attention plus multi-level climbing surfaces. Holly will get on the table and carefully push papers onto the floor, one-by-one. It's a game to her. But I have never had a cat that has shredded curtains or been as destructive as described here. It takes a little time (say "no" and distract their attention any time they head for the curtains, for example), but this should not be viewed as normal behavior. My cats also show no interest at all in going outdoors. I did have a cat, many years ago, that was an outdoor cat. When she was killed on the road, I decided that I would only have cats that I could keep safe *and happy* indoors from that time on. MaryL Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e on Tue, 19 Jun 2007 23:35:52 GMT, "MaryL" <stancole1@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote: > This isn't what I would consider normal. I have had cats for 45 years > and have never had one act like that. My cats have been indoor cats, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > head for the curtains, for example), but this should not be viewed as > normal behavior. You have just made my point all that much stronger (and we agree). A kitten will do these things naturally, unless you give him or her appropriate toys and multi-level climbing surfaces and also your attention. I don't think this person should have kittens. > My cats also show no interest at all in going > outdoors. I did have a cat, many years ago, that was an outdoor cat. > When she was killed on the road, I decided that I would only have cats > that I could keep safe *and happy* indoors from that time on. That's awful. I had indoor/outdoor cats many years ago and consider myself very lucky that neither one of them met the same fate. So again, you and I agree, a cat can be perfectly happy indoors, and definitely safer. SignatureLynne >>> Ripped my curtains to shreds, knocked everything of the top of the >>> cupboards (you know, the space between the ceiling and the top of the [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o > Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e What the OP described is a daily habit of my hellions. I have had calm kitties. I have had tigers hidden in the body of a small four legged furball. I have had the devil himself hidden behind a beautiful set of eyes ( no not the ex b@tch ;-) ). Once my furballs start to chase each other there is nothing that stands in their way including Daddy. They have climbed the walls knocked over items. But there is one thing I am intelligent enough to know better than to have anything valuable that a child, visitor or one of my furballs that could be knocked over. on Wed, 20 Jun 2007 00:05:32 GMT, "Matthew" <Iamacatslave@proudtoserve.com> wrote: > What the OP described is a daily habit of my hellions. I have had > calm kitties. I have had tigers hidden in the body of a small four [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > anything valuable that a child, visitor or one of my furballs that > could be knocked over. Amen, brother Matthew. Besides, no inanimate object is more valuable than a kitty. SignatureLynne On Tue 19 Jun 2007 08:05:32p, Matthew wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav <news:46786f47$0$24692 $4c368faf@roadrunner.com>: > What the OP described is a daily habit of my hellions. Mine, too! LOL But I expect it, and don't put anything breakable where they can get to it. Luckily they now leave my curtains and sheers alone, but I've had to bunch them up so they don't sweep the floor and look too tempting. Shamrock used to hate to share a surface with any thing or any one. He'd knock things off one by one watching as each hit the floor. Now Rhett does it. I once saw a Christmas tree decorated with cat toys. I'm thinking about using them as nick nacks. LOL SignatureCheryl on Wed, 20 Jun 2007 00:43:21 GMT, Cheryl <jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote: > Mine, too! LOL But I expect it, and don't put anything breakable > where they can get to it. Luckily they now leave my curtains and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > decorated with cat toys. I'm thinking about using them as nick nacks. > LOL My mom had a kitten whose purpose in life seemed to be to knock anything and everything off of every surface in her house. It used to drive her crazy, but I thought it was hilarious. When he died from some kind of central nervous system problem (after being blind for a few months), she really missed him and his hell raising. She recently brought home the wildest kitten she could find and all is right in her world again, even though a lot of stuff is on the floor again. :) SignatureLynne > on Wed, 20 Jun 2007 00:43:21 GMT, Cheryl <jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > again. > :) < BIG SMILE> > She recently brought home the wildest kitten she could find and > all is right in her world again, even though a lot of stuff is > on the floor again. >:) Aww, I'm glad she found a new kitty to fit that hard-to-replace void. SignatureCheryl > > ok you're inthe UK in which case ignore any paranoid ramblings form > > our american cousins, they keep their cats indoors cos they have much [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Patty good for you!!!!! > He virtually > destroyed my house because he was so hyper. He was originally a "farm > cat" and was probably descended from generations of outdoor hunters. > He HAS to go outside. It's in his genes. Sorry, but this is utter BS. My almost 4 year old cat, Rudy, came from a well established feral colony at the age of 4 months. He is now a very happy, satisfied indoor cat. Your cat destroyed your house becuase he was bored, not because he couldn't go outside. If you provide interesting toys, multi-level climbing and scratching surfaces and play with your cat, he won't destroy your house. Cats are not decorative objects and do require interaction. They can be very happy indoors, and they are definitely safer. SignatureLynne > Sorry, but this is utter BS. My almost 4 year old cat, Rudy, > came from a well established feral colony at the age of 4 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > objects and do require interaction. They can be very happy > indoors, and they are definitely safer. Ditto here. All four of my current cats came from the outdoors and have no desire to go out except in the enclosure that they know is theirs. Rhett and Scarlett were born outdoors and came in at a young age, but Bonnie was a feral (doesn't even have a desire to go out in the enclosure) and Shamrock was a cared-for stray until the person had to move and contacted Washington Animal Rescue League to come get him. They have lots of toys, places to climb, and the company of each other. And, no need to hunt to eat. They all seem happy to me. SignatureCheryl on Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:27:08 GMT, Cheryl <jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote: > Ditto here. All four of my current cats came from the outdoors and > have no desire to go out except in the enclosure that they know is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > come get him. They have lots of toys, places to climb, and the > company of each other. And, no need to hunt to eat. And now a bone to chew! Hehe. SignatureLynne > And now a bone to chew! Hehe. This wasn't a score to them. They have kicked it around a bit, but Rhett isn't chewing on it like I thought he might. I just sprayed it with catnip spray, and it resulted in Shamrock going nuts (but leaving the bone alone) and Rhett ignored it. It just doesn't measure up to the plastic he loves chewing. I'll look for a nylabone when I go to the store next time. SignatureCheryl Do NOT let them out. Why would you risk their lives now? Celeste > Hi there > I have two cats, 4 and 5 years old who have always lived inside in a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > thanks > Carmen > Do NOT let them out. Why would you risk their lives now? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > - Show quoted text - ignore this person, they are obviously deranged >> Do NOT let them out. Why would you risk their lives now? >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> - Show quoted text - < snipped > He has a point UK or not > Do NOT let them out. Why would you risk their lives now? The same reason anyone would. Sheer stupidity. > > Do NOT let them out. Why would you risk their lives now? > > The same reason anyone would. Sheer stupidity. and you knwo what about the situation for domestic cats in the UK? oh yes NOTHING! the vast majority of cat slaves allow their cats access to the outside and again the vast majority of these animals are safe, we do not have all these savage wild predators that people have in other countries who may go for our cats, and most learn to be streetwise quite quickly in the same that kids do (or they squished i suppose cats and kids). you cannot aply the same scenario as you have in your country to someone else's it does not fit at all. I would much rather run the extremely small risk of my cats encountering something untoward than curtail their acess to and enjoyment of the great outdoors, i do not think it is fair on them and I cannot provide either of them with the same stimulation they get from going outside either. to me the trade off is worth it. anyway everyone's situation is different; my 2 cats are old and do not go far, the back door is always open but terri mostly prefers to lie on the back windowsill and soak up the sun that way, occasionally gonig outside to sit under a bush but goes no further. Jessie is too old to be bothered with long expeditions further than next door's garden, although this evening we did go for a walk round the cul-de- sac together and she only went as far as i did and would not have gone that far without me (watching her run back after me when i got bored with her sniffing the bottoms of bins and turned to go indoors was funny and cute, kind of "don't leave me!!!"). I have no worries about either of these cats because they are streetwise now, old, lazy, and my area is safe, lots of other cats around, every other house seems to have cats here and they are all allowed outside and are ok with it. You cannot judge until you know the full facts of the cats, the situation and the area they live, which yuo don't but of course why should that stop you being judge and jury eh? what a bunch of cretins to the OP; let them go out, don't be a fascist, let them have a normal life, please, for england and st george! bookie >> > Do NOT let them out. Why would you risk their lives now? >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > quickly in the same that kids do (or they squished i suppose cats and > kids). I was on the mainland for a couple of weeks and I saw a number of dead cats on the roads. I acquired my cat because he was lying in the middle of the road after being injured by a car. I keep him inside, and he is the picture of contentment. Once in awhile I let him out when I'm there to keep a sharp eye on him. I wish I had kept a sharper eye on my dog, because she got killed. Now my cat is all I have left, and I value him too much to let him run around outside with speeding cars and punks with BB guns and various other hazards. Charlie > >> "Spot" <noSPA...@somewhere.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > - Show quoted text - christ where were you? in my life I think i have seen about 3 dead cats on the road, no more than that > christ where were you? in my life I think i have seen about 3 dead cats > on the road, no more than that North Whatcom County, Washington state... a rural, largely wooded area full of careless hicks who drive too fast for the road conditions. One day about a week ago I saw a particularly gruesome sight. Someone in a big pickup truck passed me going 20 miles over the speed limit, and seconds later, when I rounded a curve, I saw that he had just hit a cat, and it was convulsing in the middle of the lane. I got out to try to help it, but it was dead, with a broken spine and a crushed skull. And it was a nursing queen, probably a feral with a litter hidden in a shed or the back seat of an old car. I suspect you are deluding yourself by thinking that England is safer and more enlightened. You have told me yourself about the nasty/hostile/ alienated twerps you have to try to teach... how do they amuse themselves on weekends? Sheelagh posted her saga about the kids with a BB gun who shot her cat, so we know that's one of the ways. And what about your Suffolk neighbor, the wholesome-looking young man who was recently unmasked as a pedophile chat-room impresario? We live in a sick, demented, cruel world, Bookie, and your corner of it is not exempt. I think you are confusing an extended run of good luck with actually knowing what you are talking about. Do you remember the person who posted under the name "I am so sad" a couple of weeks ago? She was distraught because her cat had been killed by a car. The cat was her main companion in life and the main reason she looked forward to getting home from work. If you feel a need to urge people to let their cats go outdoors, you had better be prepared to handle the grief and resentment when someone's precious pet gets killed because the owner followed your advice. Charlie > > christ where were you? in my life I think i have seen about 3 dead cats > > on the road, no more than that [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Charlie animals and people die, that is the sad fact of life, and I am not going to let paranoia aboiut the outside world cause me to restrict my cats freedom and access to my garden (which is only possible when i am here anyway as we have no cat flap). just because a death causes people pain and grief do you then think that NOONE shodl be allowed outside for fear of comign to some harm? what about people's kids or other loved ones? they may get run over too so should they also stay inside, scared of the terrors of the outside world? They should be ok travelling in a car thought shouldn't they? OH NO! they may be involved in a fatal car crash where they die before the fireman can cut them oout off their vehicles!!! for christ's sake, get a grip, there are hazards everywhere for all of us, i never said that there were none at all here inthe UK just that we do not have so many wild animals who would prey on our cats and some of our villages etc are very rural and quiet with very narrow country lanes which make driving fast VERY difficult. We all face hazards whenever we go out, but you have to weigh the risk of being run over or mugged or whatever weith the need or desire to go outside and in the majority of places inthe UK that risk is VERY VERY small. as for guns inthis country i a not going to go that road again but we do not have a massive gun culture here, you are not allowed to own a gun unless you have a liocence to do so, and kids with illegal guns in their possession are of a certain type who carry them for personal protection because of the types of shady individuals they liek to do business with (ie drug dealers). Since I have had to deal with these types of teenagers in school i know this, they do not waste bullets and energy shooting at peoples pets, just not cool intheir environment in cities, but of course you know since you knwo all about urban youth culture in britain today don't you? yes there are instances of some retards taking pops at animals but these are not common as apart form in a few environments (inner cities) it is very hard to get hold of a gun without a licence, and those who do have unlicenced firearms use them for 'business' and personal protection in the urban environment they live in whilst going about their daily business, NOT for shooting at cats. We do nto have 'rednecks' in this country who shoot at animals on daddy's farm cos they are too stupid to think or anything better to do as you seem to have in your country, we have a very different demographic here, violence tends to be directed more at other young people in othergangs in urban areas. you have no idea what the situation is here in the UK do you? you really are not in a position to advise the OP whether she should allow her cats outside as you have no idea what it is like in this country at all do you? so don't comment, simple bookie > you have no idea what the situation is here in the UK do you? you really > are not in a position to advise the OP whether she should allow her cats > outside as you have no idea what it is like in this country at all do > you? so don't comment, simple bookie All I know is what I read in the news, sugar-pie. Brits play football with live turkeys... http://tinyurl.com/2le8aj Brits torture a kitten... http://tinyurl.com/2spq8h Animal cruelty surges in East Anglia... http://tinyurl.com/2p3h9z Three strangled cats found in Leeds... http://tinyurl.com/2qtb33 Norwich woman boils cat alive... http://tinyurl.com/2o2au6 Drunken Brits kick puppy to death... http://tinyurl.com/2kg4gg You know what they say about denial, don't you? It's de longest river in the world... and you are swimming in it. Charlie On 21 Jun, 07:23, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> wrote: > > you have no idea what the situation is here in the UK do you? you really > > are not in a position to advise the OP whether she should allow her cats [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Charlie i did not say it was non-existent, just not as prevalent as you like to make out and no reason to keep your animals held captive inyour homes when it is more natural for them to be allowed outside. thankfully most 'brits' are not in a stranglehold of paranoia as you yanks seem tobe about the dangers lurking touside their homes and so happily allow their animals outside. > thankfully most 'brits' are not in a stranglehold of paranoia as you > yanks seem tobe about the dangers lurking touside their homes and so > happily allow their animals outside. Seeing dead animals along the side of the road almost every day is not paranoia. It is reality. Many years ago, my own cat ran in front of the car while I was in it. Can you imagine accidentally killing your own cat? That was his last time out. And he lived a good long happy life. If we are going to discuss natural vs safe; I would point out that taking a cat to the vet is not natural for a cat. And that cat certainly doesn't enjoy it, but I we do it anyway for their health. As for comparing to children, most people do not let toddlers run around the neighborhood withoutr supervision, and cats are similar in cognitive ability. They do not understand roads, posions, nasty neighbors, etc. Nor do they understand rules and boundaries. We cannot compare free roaming cats with children who are old enough to play in the yard and follow rules. And those things wouldn't be natural to a cat either. Of course, pet ownership wouldn't be either. *carmen* <carmennclv@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in news:1182252902.974664.262180 @o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com: > Hi there > I have two cats, 4 and 5 years old who have always lived inside in a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > thanks > Carmen You will get endless arguments about whether to keep them in or out. Whatever you decide, you must at least teach them their property (with a leash and harness), so that they will know where they live in case they get out accidentally due to burglary, fire, visitors, etc. We get so many flyers here looking for lost indoor cats it is heartbreaking. Bobble SignatureHave you hugged your cat today? Sonny's web page --> http://web.ncf.ca/ai151/index2.html > Hi there > I have two cats, 4 and 5 years old who have always lived inside in a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > them attacking a bigger animal) ... Any suggestions? > thanks Carmen! It sounds so nice. You need to do two things for your kitties to enjoy the outdoors: enclose them so that they cannot escape and nothing can get in to them, and supervise them. I think I would go with a tall "invisible" kind of fence around the periphery of the garden, and I still would only let them go out when I am out there working or relaxing. (Because they can climb, as can other animals.) SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Hi there >> I have two cats, 4 and 5 years old who have always lived inside in a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > them go out when I am out there working or relaxing. (Because they can > climb, as can other animals.) Cyber has a good idea about the fence but to prevent them from getting over the fence they make a top that can prevent animals from coming in and out >Cyber has a good idea about the fence but to prevent them from getting over >the fence they make a top that can prevent animals from coming in and out I've been lucky that my cats recognize boundaries such as the railing around the deck (with a gate) and never try to jump up or squeeze through. I think they're actually too chicken to go any further. -mhd On Jun 19, 6:07 pm, hamandche...@betweentheknees.com wrote: > >Cyber has a good idea about the fence but to prevent them from getting over > >the fence they make a top that can prevent animals from coming in and out [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -mhd You're lucky. All it would take is one squirrel and my cat would be after it, no matter where it took him. I'll never forget when I opened my front door one time and Mickey saw a squirrel. Before I could stop him, he tore out of the house and was chasing the squirrel up a tree. Luckily we were able to get him back. Took a few weeks of training him away from the door with a tin container full of pennies, but now he stays away from the door. But I'm still extra careful with him. I had a cat that I used to let outside. I figured I lived in a rural area at the time so it was okay. Unfortunately it wasn't. She got killed by either a dog or it might have been an owl (the kind that prey on small animals). We don't know for sure. It was a hard lesson to learn and I haven't let a cat outside since (except on a leash and harness). There's just too many dangers. One of these days I'd like to build an enclosure for them. > I had a cat that I used to let outside. I figured I lived in a rural > area at the time so it was okay. Unfortunately it wasn't. She got [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > harness). There's just too many dangers. One of these days I'd like > to build an enclosure for them. I live in a rural area too, have for the past for 4 years(though in 2 different locations), and here(for the past 1.5years) I would never let my cat out. I did once because he was used to being allowed outside, but he doesn't like going outside here, he just stayed under the porch the whole time(I insisted on supervising him). Anyways, the reason I don't let him out here anymore is because there are owls(they killed one of my hens, I got there a few seconds too late, but soon enough to shoo the owl off...it had probably killed the hen no more than 15seconds 'fore I got there, hadn't even started eating), and skunks, and one morning last winter I went out to feed all the critters, and our goose couple was in a fenced pen, and the male was sitting in a corner, his neck column sticking out the fence skinned, and there was no head, and blood/feathers all over that corner. We have since put chicken wire all around the sides of that pen(the fencing wasn't chain link, it was square stuff, probably 2 or 3 inches on each side of the square, so something could grab his head, but nothing else. Occassionally at night off in the forest service land next to our property I have heard howling, so none of the dogs go out unsupervised, and the chickens/bunnies/geese are penned up at night. It's not like we couldn't stand to lose a few chickens(namely our overabundance of roosters), but that's not the point. I want animals to be safe on our property. The little stream/pond I made a few weeks back(along with all the lush grass all over the yard), it encouraged a wild momma duck and her newly hatched babies to come check the place out, and I'd like more of those events to happen. We have deer occassionally too(last Feburary had like 8 deer in the yard, I got some pictures). It's my goal to make this kind of a wildlife sanctuary type(not an official/legal/business type one though), where animals come to be safe and enjoy some good food, and any time of the year you can look out the window and see nature's bounty. >and one morning last winter I went out to > feed all the critters, and our goose couple was in a fenced pen, and the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > wasn't chain link, it was square stuff, probably 2 or 3 inches on each side > of the square, so something could grab his head, but nothing else. That's awful :( >We have deer occassionally too(last Feburary had like 8 deer in the yard, I got > some pictures). It's my goal to make this kind of a wildlife sanctuary > type(not an official/legal/business type one though), where animals come to > be safe and enjoy some good food, and any time of the year you can look out > the window and see nature's bounty. That sounds really nice. We have deer here too and our cats love to watch them from the window. They even chatter at them. I wonder if they think they're big dogs. Funny- I assumed Bookie was a male. No? -- Barb Of course I don't look busy, I did it right the first time. > Hi there > I have two cats, 4 and 5 years old who have always lived inside in a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > thanks > Carmen I suggest that you follow your heart. I live the UK too, & I understand your fears regarding allowing your beloved cats out, for fear of anything happening to them. I understand how it feels to be affected , or rather my cats being affected by allowing them to roam free. We both know that it is fairly unusual to hear of anything happening to cats allowed to roam free other than road accidents... If I were you, I would take Barbs advice and invest in a pair of reins from some where like Pets @ Home, then take them out together personally. You might find that they hate the idea; however they might love it. But if you have them on reins & you are with them, what could possibly happen to them? This seems to be the happy medium here. If you find that they love it, you can start offering them a little extra extension on their leads & reins so that they have a bit more rein to sniff around, & roll in the grass & play with one another too. It seems to me that you moved where you did so that you could take your cats out. If I were you, I would allow them a certain amount of freedom, so that if there was an escapee, then they know where home is if they need to find/locate it, & might they even learn a bit about what is surrounding you. This is a long standing difference of opinion here, so most of the advice you get will be totally conflicting. You are better following your own judgement/instinct on this one, because you know your cats, where we don't.... The one thing you "didn't do", was come here to get a barrage of people having a slanging match, simply because you asked for some advice.. Ignore those who know no better, & the sarcastic remarks too. *Generally you DO get excellent advice here*. I am just sorry that everyone jumped on your post and minced-meated it. Some people are just very passionate about this subject because they have had a dreadful experience, & don't wish the same to happen to you. My last bit of advice would be to invest in a cat run possibly? That way they get to catch some real life and sun rays as well, & when you have the time, take them on their supervised walks. Trust builds & I am sure it will become easier to deal with , the more time passes Good luck & please do let us know how things are going? S;o) >> Hi there >> I have two cats, 4 and 5 years old who have always lived inside in a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > free. We both know that it is fairly unusual to hear of anything > happening to cats allowed to roam free other than road accidents... <snip> > S;o) Don't do that here if you live in the US or you will surely be attacked. Everyone else knows better than you what you should do. Patty > Don't do that here if you live in the US or you will surely be attacked. > Everyone else knows better than you what you should do. I love it when people proclaim they are leaving and then keep posting. "Oh, those rpchb people are such meany pants for putting the welfare of cats before people's feelings!" SignatureLynne < snipped >. > I love it when people proclaim they are leaving and then keep posting. > > "Oh, those rpchb people are such meany pants for putting the welfare of > cats before people's feelings!" Amen!!!!!! sister Say it loud say it clear >If I were you, I would take Barbs advice and invest in a pair of reins >from some where like Pets @ Home Reins are pretty useful if you are going to ride him. :-) -mhd > >If I were you, I would take Barbs advice and invest in a pair of reins > >from some where like Pets @ Home > > Reins are pretty useful if you are going to ride him. :-) > > -mhd Thank you and everyone for the advise. I am actually impressed. Last night when we got home we built the fence. There was one before but "only" about 1.70 m. Phoebe the wee cat went flying over it the other day. I don't know how could she do that as I said, she has live indoors all her life. it was agony to look for her but she could not care less when we found her. Too brave for so little. Now they have tested it they meaow all the time asking to go out. Before they did no have a problem apart that Patrick is bored inside and goes bulimic. He needs out I think. By the way we live in Scotland. Carmen > Thank you and everyone for the advise. I am actually impressed. > Last night when we got home we built the fence. There was one before [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > By the way we live in Scotland. > Carmen It sounds nice. You should post some pictures for us. I'm not surprised that your indoor cat could go flying like that. Holly (12 years old) leaps to the mantel with no problem at all. MaryL >> Thank you and everyone for the advise. I am actually impressed. >> Last night when we got home we built the fence. There was one before [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that your indoor cat could go flying like that. Holly (12 years old) > leaps to the mantel with no problem at all. It does sound nice, I would love to see it. It is really wonderful to hear froma poster in the UK who actually realizes that there are dangers outside for cats who are allowed to roam, and cares enough to take precautions before simply opening the door. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com on Wed, 20 Jun 2007 14:20:05 GMT, "cybercat" <cyberpurrs@yahoo.com> wrote: > It does sound nice, I would love to see it. It is really wonderful to > hear froma poster in the UK who actually realizes that there are > dangers outside for > cats who are allowed to roam, and cares enough to take precautions > before simply opening the door. Agree--very refreshing. SignatureLynne > >> Thank you and everyone for the advise. I am actually impressed. > >> Last night when we got home we built the fence. There was one before [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > - Show quoted text - we all realise there are dangers outside, just that we have weighed up the risks and most of us have decided that the risk are negligible where we live and for the type of cats we have. bvut you keep going with your skewed opinions, that's fine > > >If I were you, I would take Barbs advice and invest in a pair of reins > > >from some where like Pets @ Home [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > By the way we live in Scotland. > Carmen where in scotland? middle of nowhere or near some drug-riddled sink estate in glasgow? makes a difference as if in the middle of nowhere then you are probably safe to let them out > Hi there > I have two cats, 4 and 5 years old who have always lived inside in a > flat. Now we have moved to a house with garden and a forest behind and > we were so looking forwards to leave the cats to enjoy.. but I am > scared they panic or get lost or a bigger aninmal attacks them (or > them attacking a bigger animal) ... Any suggestions? Make sure you go out with them the first few times. They'll probably keep coming back to you to 'check' anyway. If they do panic, they'll probably dash back to the cover of the house, and known territory. But cats are both intelligent and curious animals, and they'll probably be fascinated. After a short while they'll probably establish boundaries to their territory along natural demarcation lines, i.e. a hedge, a stream, a fence. The only thing that is likely to attack them is a fox (or possibly guard dog), and one gets the impression that there are far more foxes in the towns these days than there are left out in the country, where they might actually have to hunt for a living... I'd be more worried about repercussions from neighbouring farm cats if your two accidentally stray into their territory, and their reactions to moving vehicles. Normally cats acquire 'road sense' fairly young, but if yours have been kept shut up and away from other animals, they won't know what to do. We had a dreadful job keeping our pair in until they had their inoculations -- the first time the female went out, she went through a hole in the wire and then couldn't find it again to get back! I was running up and down the hedge calling to her, with the kitten calling back, trying to guide her back to the hole she'd squeezed through; I was afraid I'd have to go round the other side myself, but she eventually worked it out. Male cats seem to explore further afield than female, neutered or not; if they do get 'lost', try calling for long periods of time so that they can navigate back to the sound of your voice. I've ended up doing this several times now, and the cat usually turns up some time later, having clear |
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