-----------
Sometimes rescue groups are willing to do "courtesy postings," i.e. you can
post a picture and description of a cat you are trying to rehome on their
website, but the group itself is not responsible for the cat in any way (the
cat obviously stays with you in the meantime), and anyone who would phone to
inquire about the cat would be referred directly to you. This may not be the
appropriate solution for Ginger, but I thought I would take the opportunity
to post it anyway, and it also may help out someone else.
Best regards,
---Cindy S.

HOWEDY Barry,

On Apr 24, 9:53 pm,
"Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laborat...@hotmail.com"

Seems there AIN'T NO WON willin to TALK BUSINESS
with The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard. These
maggots won't even QUOTE HIS LIES and ABUSES <{}; ~ ) >

You mean 'HOWEDY The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard, Barry <{}': ~ ) >

Kinda LIKE THIS:

HOWEDY Barry, an WELCOME to The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog,
Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual Forums And
Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research
Laboratory <{); ~ ) >

But of curse, Barry. ALL temperament and behavior problems
are CAUSED BY HUMAN MISHANDLING, not "genetics"
or BREED or BREED TRAITS, it's strictly HUMAN ABUSE
and MISHANDLING as taught by HOWER professional dog
trainers and university Master's Degree behavior programs and
veterinary malpracticioners:

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

                   ---------------------

IN FACT, Barry, ALL temperament and behavior problems
are EZ to EXXXTINGUISH NEARLY INSTANTLY simply
by DOIN EVERY THING EXXXACTLY PRECISELY
OPPOSITE of HOWE the pathetic malignant animal murderin
ignorameHOWESES and active acute chronic life long incurable
MENTAL CASES who post their LIES MYTHS and IDIOCY
here abHOWETS, recommend as has BEEN PROVEN
by The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat
And Horse Training Method Manual Students <{} : ~ ( >

Didn't you have a kat behavior problem you solved usin it?

Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research at UofWI,
marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!" into ITS face
for five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation,"
dermer PRYOR to gettin JERRYIZED:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

    And how do we know this aspect of his
    advice is right?

    Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
    His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

    (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
    few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
    ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

    --Marshall

      Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
       Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
                    http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
       "Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"

Subject:   Subject changed: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE
                                           (Ninnyboy)

26 From:  Marshall Dermer -
Date:  Tues, Aug 14 2001 8:15 pm
Email:   der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)

In article <2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@posting.google.com>
mattburns...@yahoo.com (Matthew Burnside) writes:

Dear Matt:

Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but
Jerry has failed to profit from it.

My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.

--Marshall

PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
   posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
   is about Jerry.

I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge
newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb
regulars from whom I have learned much. They include:
Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman,
jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth
Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace,
John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.

        *(EVERY WON of them got VERY LONG POSTED  CASE}
         HISTORIES of INCURABLE MENTAL ILLNESS an HURTIN
         INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
         DUMB CRITTERS an LYIN abHOWET IT.)

    Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
    Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of
    Wisconsin--Milwaukee/Milwaukee, WI 53201

             der...@uwm.edu   http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

  "If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
              myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_

              YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!

             Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
             Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
                       BUSINESS.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry,  I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University.  I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques.  Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H.,
Diplomate, Academy of Behavioral Medicine

                     -------------------

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

   "We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
   Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
   God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
   Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

                  ----------------

Do you understand the meanin of "FORENSIC SCIENCES," Barry?
Perhaps you're askin yourself,: 'WHAAAT THE HEEL is
"FORENSIC EVIDENCE" and WHAAAT'S THAT got to
do with raisin an trainin a PUSSY or a PUPPY'??

THAT'S a EXXXCELLENT QUESTION, thank you, Barry <{}: ~ ) >

fo·ren·sic      /fəˈrɛnsɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled
Pronunciation[fuh-ren-sik]

–adjective
1. pertaining to, connected with, or used in courts
of law or public discussion and debate.

2. adapted or suited to argumentation; rhetorical.
–noun 3. forensics, (used with a singular or plural verb)
the art or study of argumentation and formal debate.

[Origin: 1650–60; < L foréns(is) of, belonging to the
forum, public (see forum, -ensis) + ic]

ev·i·dence  /ˈɛvɪdəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled
Pronunciation[ev-i-duhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA
Pronunciation noun, verb, -denced, -denc·ing. –noun

1. that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground
for belief; proof.

2. something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign:
His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.

3. Law. data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts
in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses,
records, documents, or objects.

–verb (used with object)
4. to make evident or clear; show clearly;
manifest: He evidenced his approval by
promising his full support.

5. to support by evidence: He evidenced his
accusation with incriminating letters.

—Idiom
6. in evidence, plainly visible; conspicuous:
The first signs of spring are in evidence.

[Origin: 1250–1300; ME (n.) < MF < L évidentia. See evident, -ence]

—Synonyms
3. information, deposition, affidavit. Evidence,
exhibit, testimony, proof refer to information furnished in a
legal investigation to support a contention. Evidence is any
information so given, whether furnished by witnesses or
derived from documents or from any other source: Hearsay
evidence is not admitted in a trial. An exhibit in law is a
document or article that is presented in court as evidence:
The signed contract is Exhibit A. Testimony is usually
evidence given by witnesses under oath: The jury listened
carefully to the testimony. Proof is evidence that is so
complete and convincing as to put a conclusion beyond
reasonable doubt: proof of the innocence of the accused.

4. demonstrate.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary,
© Random House, Inc. 2006.

                        --------------------

NHOWE that we got all HOWER ducks in a row...

The Embry Study:

"While some may find it strange that reprimands might increase
the chances of a child going into the street, the literature on
the experimental analysis of behavior is replete with examples
of how "attention to inappropriate behavior" increases the
chances of more inappropriate behavior.

Thus, suggestions to parents that they talk to or reason with
their children about dashing into the street will likely to
have the opposite impact. Reprimands do not punish unsafe
behavior; they reward it."

Source:

"Reducing the Risk of Pedestrian Accidents to Preschoolers by
Parent  Training and Symbolic Modeling for Children: An
Experimental Analysis  in the Natural Environment. Research
Report Number 2 of the Safe-Playing Project."

         A. S. Neill, Tthe Famous Founder of The Summerhill
         School, Used To Cure Delinquent Children Way Back In
         The 1950's By Paying Them For Every Time They Wet The
         Bed Or Broke A Pane Of Glass And Their Behaviour Would
         Stop, - As If By MAGICK!

Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can
Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving
Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific Management Of
Doggys.  <{) ; ~ ) >

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition,"  Ivan P. Pavlov

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.

"All animals learn best through play." -- Konrad Lorenz

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS were
moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and learning
immediately deteriorated."

"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."

From: "George von Hilsheimer" <drvonh@earthlink.net>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywizard@mail.com>
Subject: Reward/Punishment

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 09:01:22 -0400

Jerry, I was cleaning up some old disks and found the
attached essay of mine on reward/punishment - mostly
anti-punishment.

I didn't find the Biblio, but lets hope its in there somewhere!
I could probably find it in my book, IS THERE A SCIENCE
OF BEHAVIOR as all the references are <1970 - but not on
disk (1967!).

  REWARD/PUNISHMENT

  Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) nearly every learning theory model
involves the use of punishment.  Of course, Skinner has
never, to my knowledge, demonstrated how we escape the
phenomenon that an expected reward not received is
experienced as a punishment and can product extensive
and persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966.

  Punishment deters some behavior; however, consistent punishment
is least effective in a long run that includes cessation (Morgan,
1961; Hilgard, 1956; Skinner 1938).  Behaviors punished reappear,
and in the long run the total emission of a punished behavior is
greater than when it is unpunished (Ferster and Skinner, 1957).

   Punishment may enhance the value of an activity and cause it
to be repeated more often (Aronson and Mills, 1959).  As Festinger
put it, "rats and people come to love things for which they have
suffered" (1961).

  Punishment inhibits responding in general, but neither
the intensity or the frequency of punishment are related to
training or to the extinction of a response (Smith et al, 1966).

   Recent research contradicts the point of view that an animal
becomes quiescent and mechanically produces the required response
late in punishment training (Lyman, 1966). Appel and Peterson (1966)
surveyed the punishment literature to conclude that punishment may
be suppressive and confusing, but punishment does not control or
eliminate behavior.

  A mild shock is a more effective stimulus for avoidance learning
than a strong shock.  Animals are generally more responsive during
mild punishment (Johnson and Church, 1965).  Investigation of a
wide range of shock frequencies shows that increase in intensity
is accompanied by an increase in the disruption of learning (Levine,
1966; Skinner, 1958; Hilgard, 1957, Skinner, 1938).

See also:
(Aronson and Mills, 1959).
(Ferster and Skinner, 1957).
(Lyman, 1966).  Appel and Peterson (1966).
(Johnson and Church, 1965).
(Levine, 1966).

  Prolonged shock makes rats less exploratory in new open
fields (McKay, 1965).   Aversive noise is even more destructive
of the effectiveness of the motor system of neurotics  than that
of normal individuals (Jansen  and Hoffman, 1965).

  If a victim's avoidance of punishment causes a large reduction
in the rate of the punishment he will repeat the avoidance more
efficiently than if it does not.  However, when the punishment
rate reverts and is not changed by action the formerly "successful"
victim will much more quickly stop responding than the formerly
"unsuccessful" victim (Herrnstein and Hineline, 1966).

  It seems that reduction in punishment is more effective than
continuing punishment and that changes in rates of punishment
can have as strong or stronger effects than basic reinforcements.

  An action which is first sporadically punished will become
more persistent if it is continually punished (Banks, 1966).

It has been very well established that the more
children are punished for being aggressive by their mothers,
the more aggressive they are in school; the more severely
they are forced to be independent the more dependent they
are.  Particularly when punishment is severe or perceived
as inappropriate, and when it is inconsistently applied (as,
unless the parent is God, it often must be), punishment
tends to confirm the action it is designed to eliminate
(Sears et l, 1953, 57).

 "The unhappy effects of punishment have run like a dismal
thread through our findings.  Mothers who  severely punished
toilet accidents ended up with bed wetting children.  Mothers
who punished dependency to get rid of it had more dependent
children than mothers who did not punish.  Mothers who punished
aggressive behavior severely had more aggressive children than
mothers who punished lightly . . . Harsh physical punishment
was associated with high childhood aggressiveness and with
feeding problems." (1957) (McKay, 1965) (Jansen  and Hoffman,
1965) (Herrnstein and Hineline, 1966)..

  Delinquency and punishment are very highly related (of
delinquents studied 268 were punished as compared with 79
whose 5mothers reasoned with them; 299 were punished as
compared with 50 whose fathers reasoned with them - non
delinquents 169/138 for mothers; 155/109 for fathers (Gluek
and Gluek, 1959).

Punishment may cause improved performance of the
punished action (Hendry, 1963).  Aylon and Azrin (1966b)
have extended earlier animal research to humans to demonstrate
that punishment may acquire discriminative or rewarding properties.

See also: Azrin et al, 1966)
Skinner (1958).
(Morgan, 1961; Hilgard, 1956; Skinner 1938).

                        --------------------

         The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
                        Never Change,
                 Or They'd Not Be Scientific
                    And Could Not Obtain
        Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective, Safe Results
               For All Handler's And All Critters,
                      And ALL Behaviors
                In ALL FIELDS And ALL UTILITIES,
                 ALL OVER The Whole Wild World,
                      NEARLY INSTANTLY,
      As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Sincerely Incredibly
              Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
                          GRAND
        Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
        100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
                          FREE
   WWW Wits'End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual
                       <{} ; ~ )  >

From: "GEORGE VONHILSHEINER" <DRV...@EARTHLINK.NET>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Proposed article for Wikipedia
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:48:33 -0500

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is the cognomen of a dog behaviorist,
Jerry Howe, of Orlando, Fl.  Howe's primary teaching is that
dogs deserve unconditional love, respect, and attention and
that by providing these emotional needs dogs will regulate
their own behavior.

Howe is bombastically antagonistic to rewarders, but he is
aggressively hostile to punishers - he refers antagonists
to B.F. Skinner, Mary Cover Jones, and J.B. Watson and
especially to Samuel A. Corson when they mistakenly annunciate
behavioral principles to support their use of punishment.

Punishment always deranges behavior, says Skinner,
Jones, Watson, Corson and Jerry Howe!

Howe developed a sonic device which calms dogs and has
been broadly tested in a wide range of different situations.
The present author is a Who's Who recognized psychologist
who was asked to evaluate Howe's device by a former student.

Howe provided the author with a device, without
charge, and said device worked as reported.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
drv...@earthlink.net
Then cross reference to Jerry Howe, etc.

               --------------

Jerry, the difficulty with these ignorant dog molesters
is that they cannot read.   Negative reinforcement is no
response by the trainer.

There is positive reinforcement, an action which is followed
by an increase in the targetted behavior (usually called
"reward" which is precisely and technically a misnomer),
negative reinforcement is the absence of any response.

Negative means 'No'.

Skinner's last book, "CUMULATIVE RECORD" reviews this thoroughly.
http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/proj/nru/nr.html

Negative reinforcement is stopping an aversive reinforcement
according to this author.   Read it, they have a sense of humor!

There are four forms of systematic reinforcement:

do nothing (negative reinforcement)

reward the behavior (positive reinforcement)

punish the behavior (aversive reinforcement) after habituating
the subject to punishment,

stop punishing (relief of aversion, which is negative reinforcement).

Logically, failing to reward after habituating a reward
is also negative reinforcement.  Actually intermittent
rewards work better than consistent, invariable rewards,
so there is actually another two categories.  Invariable
reinforcement and random reinforcement (on varying schedules).

Punishment is AVERSIVE REINFORCEMENT.

Actions which cause the animal being trained to avoid,
avert, cringe away from. Pavlovians always responded
to American psychologist's inability to reproduce Pavlov's
results with dogs with the comment, "American's don't LOVE
their dogs".  If you ever observed a Russian psychologist
working with a dog, you'd instantly see the difference.

American psychologists were wooden, robot-like,
wanted to be "scientific".

This meant to them that they should display no
affection, or any other emotion with the subjects.

When a Pavlovian dog started to misbehave or fail to respond,
doggie was taken out of the equipment, and taken home for a
loving vacation, with much TLC.  Sam Corson, Pavlov's last
student, demonstrated the same relationships at Ohio State.

Interestingly the first page of results for Sam Corson,
dog behaviorist is loaded with Jerry Howe quoting Dr. Von.
heh heh heh

Dr. Von

Oh, by the way, you once had a pompous fellow say that
Dr. Von was a figment of your imagination.  I don't
normally mention this, but I have been listed in Who's
Who in the S & SE USA since 1982, and in the big books,
Who's Who in the USA, WW in the World, WW in Medicine
etc, and WW in Science and Technology, since that date.

These are the Marquis Publications, the "real" WW, and
you can't get yourself into them.

GvH

                ============

WELCOME to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training
Method Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory <{); ~ )  >

I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard<{) ; ~ ) >

Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And
Horsey Wizard's

                    The *666* Edition Of Your Own
                              FREE COPY
                                 Of
          The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
                               GRAND
              Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
    100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
                              FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horsey Training Method Manual<{) ; ~ )>

                      <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
               <{#}: ~ } >               < { ~ :{@}>
         <{#}: ~ } >                           < { ~ :{@}>
    <{#}: ~ } > http://makeashorterlink.com/?K3AD21A3D < { ~ :{@}>
         <{#}: ~ } >                           < { ~ :{@}>
               <{#}: ~ } >               < { ~ :{@}>
                      <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

HOWEDY Barry,

Perhaps you need a PRACTICAL DEAMONSTRATION
of HOWE FORENSIC SCIENCE EVIDENCE can be used
to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT the liars cowards
dog abusers frauds and active acute chronic life long incurable
mental patients postin here abHOWETS???

                   LIKE THIS, for EXXXAMPLE:

Subject: Re: Training dog to not be afraid ?

HOWEDY glen,

WELCOME to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training
Method Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory <{); ~ )  >

"glen stark" <stark@nospam.ife.ee.ethz.ch> wrote in message news:pan.
2007.04.24.16.02.14@nospam.ife.ee.ethz.ch...

As a computer scientist perhaps you can advise us HOWE
to make a effective killfilter for information which identifies
EXXXPOSES and discredits lying animal murderin punk
thug coward active acute chronic life long incurale mental
cases? You could sell it to all the news servers, eh, glen?

professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at UofWI marshall
dermer gave similar KILLFILTER advice back when he
was first bein IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED an DISCREDITED
as a lyin animal abusin punk thug coward active acute chronic
life long incurable mental case, glen <{}: ~ ) >

Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behavior marshall
dermer from UofWI PRYOR to gettin JERRYIZED:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

     And how do we know this aspect of his
     advice is right?

     Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
     His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

     (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
     few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
     ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

     --Marshall

       Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
        Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
                     http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
        "Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"

Subject:   Subject changed: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE
                                            (Ninnyboy)

26 From:  Marshall Dermer -
Date:  Tues, Aug 14 2001 8:15 pm
Email:   der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
In article <2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@posting.google.com>

Mattburns...@yahoo.com (Matthew Burnside) writes:

Dear Matt:

Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but
Jerry has failed to profit from it.

My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.

--Marshall

PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
    posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
    is about Jerry.

I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge
newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb
regulars from whom I have learned much.

They include:Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane
Blackman, jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold,
Nancy Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth
Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace, John
Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane Webb, and
Terri Willis.

         *(EVERY WON of them got VERY LONG POSTED  CASE}
          HISTORIES of INCURABLE MENTAL ILLNESS an HURTIN
          INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
          DUMB CRITTERS an LYIN abHOWET IT.)

     Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
     Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of
     Wisconsin--Milwaukee/Milwaukee, WI 53201
     der...@uwm.edu   http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

   "If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
               myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_

               YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!

              Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
              Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
                        BUSINESS.

           --------------------------------------

Yeah, THAT can be pretty SCARY sh.t, eh, glen?

             YOU MEAN,  LIKE THIS, glen?:

   "Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
   choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
   stern correction" --Janet Boss

             AND LIKE THIS:

   On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <mhhea...@iastate.edu>,
   clicked their heels and said:

   > Does that include tone of voice?  Some tools are easier
   > to ban than others.

   yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up!  And I
   always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
   "honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
   --
   Janet B
   www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

             AND LIKE THIS, glen?:

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 00:29:11 GMT
Subject: Re: Puppy Wizard

HOWEDY Bhairavi,

This is a family newsgroup, Bhairavi.

If you didn't we'd have professor SCRUFF SHAKE discipline
you: Here's research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM
at UofWI marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!"
into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten
minutes contemplation" dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy,  "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."

That smacks of being disrespectful:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

 lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
 For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
 pass it through the crate door.  Attach a line to it.
 When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

 Lynn K.

Did you say "Jack?":

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And  Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few  Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING is COURTEHOWES?

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most
people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually,
the dog will give in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear."

Gotta LOVE koehler. dahl makes koheler look like St. Francis.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL

Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME she LIES abHOWET it?:

          "I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
          Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
          Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
          Dog Is Anything But Destructive,"

LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.

"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?

lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:

"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

          "On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
          we have trained require much more
          frequent and heavy application of pressure
         (PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

         This is continued resistance to your
         increasing authority, and the job is
         not done until it is  overcome

         Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
         wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
         less tractable dogs may require you to
         progress to striking them more sharply"

BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...

        "Try pinching the ear between the metal
        casing and the collar,  even the buckle on
        the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
       give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
       direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"

          "You can press the dog's ear with a
          shotshell instead of your thumb even
          get a studded collar and pinch the ear
         against that Make the dog's need to stop
         the pinching so urgent that resisting your
         will fades in importance.

          CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
          Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
          using the stick and no ear pinch.

         When the dog is digging out to beat the
         stick and seems totally reliable without
         any ear pinch, you are finished

          This is continued resistance to your
          increasing authority, and the job is
          not done until it is overcome"

         If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
         under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

          (stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
          because the ear is getting tender, or the
          dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
          frosty dahl.

          "Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
           professora gingold.

BWEEEHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

           AND 'SCARY sh.t' LIKE THIS, glen?

Here's HOWER miserable stinkin lyin anonymHOWES
punk thug coward  animal murderin active acute chronic
life long incurable mental case pal tommy soronson
HEELPIN dogs:

         tommy sez:

        At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
        dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
        *not* constitute a "beating."

And then he sez:

"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin.  Yep, really lean into it.

Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.

Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.

If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.

When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee.  Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."

I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training.  That is, she just
needs *more* of it."

You mean like HOWE when you HOWEsbreak a dog an
you beat IT with a switch or heavy man's leather belt and
tie him next to his evil deed and return to BEAT HIM every
twenty minutes, tommy?

  tommy SEZ:

"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.

A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.

Okay.  Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters.  Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens"

Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab

Get this book:

"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete

If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).

You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.

And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman

              ------------------------

From: osi...@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700

Subject: My GSD bit me.
The question:

I have a four year old male GSD.  He growls at me sometimes.
When he growls at me he stares me in the face and lays his
ears back.

The New Skete books say that the dog should not be allowed
to do that.  They suggest shaking down the dog by grabing
the dog on the sides of his neck and picking him off his
front feet, then giving the dog the same sort of treatment
the dog would give another if it were challenging him.

Namely getting in the dogs face and letting
the dog know you are the alpha dog.

Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was not
convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.

Anyone got ideas on what to do with this dog that might
help him to decide that he wants to follow and that he
has nothing to fear from me?

                      ----------------------

From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 17:21:14 GMT
Subject: Re: My GSD bit me.

You need to improve your acting skills.  Get a werewolf
suit with blood-drenched fangs and claw gloves and THEN
go after your dog.

Knock the sh.t out of him and don't be afraid to crack
some ribs. Then yank the mask off and shout "SURPRISE!
IT'S ME!"  I guarantee you and your dog will have a new
relationship based on mutual respect.

Keep in mind that the monks of New Skete were pre-Lon-Chaney.

Charlie

                 -----------------------

               But this is O.K., eh, glen?:

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

            ========

   "Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain
   And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation
   Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You

   Punish Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The
   Dog Will Want To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.

   "Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
   A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
   Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
   Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
   He Might Eat My Cat,"Melanie Lee Chang * mchang@lppi.ucsf.edu
   Canine Behavioral Genetics Project University of California, San
   Francisco http://psych.ucsf.edu/K9BehavioralGenetics/

   captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
   ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
   The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
   Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

   "Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
   Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
   Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
   Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
   The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
   mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Oh? Oh, you mean LIKE THIS, glen?:

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories.  The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

        Sally Hennessey

Nope.  No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

            "SIMILARITIES" LIKE THIS, glen:
From: sionnach (rhyfe...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST

 Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
 it  clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
 misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
 of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?

 I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
 persistant, it  can be appropriate to take hold of the
 loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
 shake to the *skin*".

 Janet's not talking about actually shaking
 the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
 abusive." sinofabitch...

         > > > Jerome Bigge writes:
         > > > I do know that hitting, hurting
         > > > your dog will often make the
         > > > dog either aggressive or a fear
         > > > biter, neither of which we want to do.

And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:

         > > And neither does anyone else,
         > > Jerome.  No matter
         > > what Jerry Howe states.

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This I've Suggested It To Quite
A Few Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY
TIME The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer,
33 Years Experience.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for her
coment above regarding her success with The Puppy
Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation Anxiety / Bed Time
Calming Technique (STSA/BTCT)?

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?

         > > You're scary Marilyn.
         > > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
         > > individual.  I feel very sorry for her
         > > and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

         > > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
         > > doubt, please provide a quote (an
         > > original quote, not from one of Jerry
         > > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
         > > shows a regular poster promoting or
         > > using an abusive form of training.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

         > > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And  Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few  Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What  does this mean?"

Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.

"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."

You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?

 --Mike Dufort
   author of the zero selling book
   "Courteous Canines"

You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?

Yeah. When I preload my dog's mouth with bitter apple,
suppose I don't get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey?

Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can't HURT it?

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her
Ear," sionnach.

Oh, THANKS, sinofabitch...

 And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
 "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
 something you twisted out of context,
 because you are full of bizarro manure."

          "Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
          helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
          Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
          you to progress to striking them more
          sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
          expert trainer.

You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?

       "Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
       Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
       With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
       discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

            terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
           "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
           things is something you twisted out of
           context, because you are full of bizarro
           manure."

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you
should knee the dog in the chest, step on
its toes, throw him down by his ears and
climb all over it like a raped ape growling
into his throat and bite IT on his ears, or
leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with
the heel of your palm.

         "Hold Back The Dobie Girl So That Izzy Can
          Put Simon In His Place." BINACA bethFIST

"Beth F" <d...@spamthis.alaska.com> wrote in message:

"Whatever motivates the dog, but I daresay
most of the dogs I have in classes just aren't
that interested in praise."

       From: Beth F (d...@spamthis.alaska.com)
       Subject: Re: citronella collar and ultrasonic trainer
       Date:  2002-02-07 11:23:31 PST

       On Thu, 07 Feb 2002 18:23:59 GMT,
       "Lane Browning"
       <rainm...@att.net> wrote:

       >I agree about the whining, my dog isn't aware he is
       >doing it either...it's like a seizure when he goes
       >nuts, I can't even make eye contact with him,
       >he's on some other planet.  NOTHING reaches
       >him.
       >
       >no, not a Samoyed.  actually a breed I researched
       >very carefully....sigh.

       I totally understand.  And the samoyed thing was
       a bit of a joke - Kavik is a samoyed.  I sympathize
       with you- i received a great deal of hostility for not
       getting my dogs barking and whining under control
       at the dog club - apparently, I wasn't trying hard
       enough.

       I was given many different techniques to try from
       treating when quiet, from teaching bark-nobark and
       treating, from aversives (binaca and tobasco) and
       NOTHING worked.

       Well, actually the binaca worked but after
       i got him in the eye it was not a possibility
       to be using that.

       Even yesterday Kavik and Toklat and I went for a four
       mile walk.  IT took about an hour.  In that hour Kavik
       barked basically the entire time. Not AT anything, not
       because he was insecure, unhappy or any of the
       other reasons folks here are going to tell me that
       dogs bark- he barked for sheer joy.   BARK BARK
       BARK, I AM WALKING YAY BARK.   I actually timed
       the amount of time he wasn't barking and it was a
       total of 7 minutes in 58 minutes.  And because its
       outdoors, and in a place where folks aren't sleeping,

       I don't worry about it -its a good outlet for his bark
       drive.

       I also don't correct him when we are skiing -
       but if we go fast enough, the barking stops!!

       In any case, for places where its really inappropriate
       for him to bark - in the car when i am not present, or
       in the dog club in his crate when i am teaching, he
       wears a citronella collar.  He understands that
       when he is wearing it, he shouldn't bark, at this
       point. He doesnt' even test it anymore.  And I have
       been able to leave the collar off most of the time
       lately - he has learned that he shouldn't bark when
       left alone in the car at people or while in the crate.
        I believe both of these are "boredom barks" - barks
       to entertain onesself.  However, if i am very lax
       about the collar and he doesnt' wear it for several
       weeks while in these situations the training wears off
       - so basically i do it randomly - once in awhile he
       wears the collar as a reminder.

       Quite frankly, I much preferred this method of
       training to MY applying the aversive - i am not the
       bad guy and he is completely in control of the
       correction.  Clearly he understands what causes the
       correction. And I am not counting on my own powers
       of timing and accuracy to create the correction.

       --BethF, Anchorage, AK

         > Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
         > > When you compare using sound and
         > > praise to solve a problem with using
         > > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
         > >  how can you criticize the use of sound?

         > There's nothing more to be said, then.
         > You've made up your mind.

         > But you've impressed me by mentioning
         > that you're a professor with 30 years of
         > experience.

         >  So, can you cite some examples of
         > people recommending "shock collars,
         > hanging, and punishment"?

BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

         > --
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

You think matty's playin with a full goddamned deck?

         Ahhhhh, you mean LIKE THIS, glen?:

Here's janet's PARTNER:

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

sinofabitch writes:

Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?

No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

That so?

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...

The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.

Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

Here's Jerry's version

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

 Here's yours:

"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

                             See, glen?

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard AIN'T
NEVER posted anonymHOWESLY, glen <{}: ~ ) >

PERHAPS you DON'T UNDERSTAND the meanin
of "Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences
Research", glen? EVERY THING is indellibly archived
FOREVER, unless you cowards set your INFORMATIVE
posts to EXXXPIRE <{}: ~ )  >