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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / April 2007The Biggest Predators are Human
Last night I had just sat down when I noticed that my mobile phone had multiple messages waiting for me to read. I picked it up & opened the messages that I could see were from a friend who had one of Belle's kittens out of her summer litter last year ,& started to read them in the order in which they arrived. As I started to read them, I could feel my blood almost congealing in my arteries..... The message read, " Jack has gone missing. The last time we saw him was on Friday evening at 6 pm.. Do you think he will come back"...... The second message read, "still nothing"..... The third one read, "He's gone.. I can't believe or accept it"..... Even though it was 11.20pm, I called her because I knew she wouldn't be able to sleep whilst he was still missing. She picked up immediately & I asked what had happened: On Friday evening, she was just seeing her son off as he went to stay with his grand parents, & he was on the wall of the front garden. He didn't come in as usual at around 8pm, so she started to call and look for him. She searched the garden, the neighbors garden, the near vicinity to the house, all the garages, & then got into the car and started to search the village for him. She drove around for 3 hours just calling him whilst her partner remained @ home in the slim chance that he showed up there..... Overnight they left the back door open and also the patio door too in the hope that he just got caught up in cat company or locked into someones shed or suchlike.. Nothing! He hasn't been seen since.... By yesterday morning, they went searching in day light & posted fliers through the entire estates doors in the hope that possibly someone else had seen him. They put a notice in the news agents window, where she noticed that she wasn't the only cat owner to have lost her cat;there were 3 other missing cats in there too. The next stop was the vet surgery, where she also noticed that there were **Many Other cats missing** as well. There 12 cats in total missing in total if you added all the cats together... ..;o( ALL of these cats went missing in between Thursday night & Friday night, so things do not look very hopeful at all..... Not all of them are pedigree cats;there are 4 pedigree's & the other 8 are just normal everyday cats. Jack is a blue point Ragdoll, there were 2 Persian cats and a birman also. The vet encouraged her to ring the police, & I told her to try the shelters, the council (they pick dead cats up here, that have either been run over, or found dead), & all of the obvious charities such as the RSPCA, Cat Protection The Ragdoll Rescue line. Not a single one of them have any news to impart. Things are looking very grim here & I don't hold out much hope for her either. It is so tragic too... She loved that cat silly as we did. He was just under a year old , neutered & chipped.. but that doesn't mean a figs difference when someone picks up your cat & simply clears off with it. I hate to think who has taken him or what might have happened to him either. Cyber, you had a very good point when you said that there are unseen dangers. You never think of the biggest predator of all, THE HUMAN BEING. I am devastated for her & feel sick when I think of what might have happened to him. Yet another reason to consider keeping your cats safe indoors.!! The biggest shame is that he wasn't allowed out of the garden normally. she only took her eye off him, & this is the result..it's sickening;o( Sheelagh Again, I sit here sobbing over a cat I don't know. Please keep us posted. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > Last night I had just sat down when I noticed that my mobile phone had > multiple messages waiting for me to read. I picked it up & opened the [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > Sheelagh > Again, I sit here sobbing over a cat I don't know. Please keep us posted. > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. I know how you feel. I sit here in tears half the time I come to the group. The other times I want to reach thru and ring some idiots neck >> Last night I had just sat down when I noticed that my mobile phone had >> multiple messages waiting for me to read. I picked it up & opened the [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] >> >> Sheelagh > Last night I had just sat down when I noticed that my mobile phone had > multiple messages waiting for me to read. I picked it up & opened the [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > Sheelagh It makes me wonder if there are any research facilities or medical schools in the vicinity. I hope she reported this to the police. > Last night I had just sat down when I noticed that my mobile phone had > multiple messages waiting for me to read. I picked it up & opened the [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > Sheelagh That is a tragedy! People who find friendly cats will take them for themselves! I suspect that they could not raise one themselve! Dogs are a big problem! Actually and outdoor enclosed cage has worked for me! Think I have worked out all the breach possiblilities! Except a tree falling down maybe!: http://wolfbat359.com/catcage.html http://wolfbat359.com/catcomput.html http://wolfbat359.com/Catty.html Poncho Villa still seeks the way out!: http://wolfbat359.com/Catty031.jpg on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:21:24 GMT, chatnoir <wolfbat359a@mindspring.com> wrote: > That is a tragedy! People who find friendly cats will take them for > themselves! I suspect that they could not raise one themselve! Dogs > are a big problem! Since there were *12* cats missing, I seriously doubt they were stolen to be pets... Sheelagh, my heart goes out to you and her family. It sounds like perhaps people in England need to reconsider letting their cats outside... My neighbors 'found' a kitten about 6 months ago. He was clearly someone's pet, but had no collar. They brought him over here because he looks a lot like Levi and is also about the same age. They decided to keep him, even though I strongly suggested they have him scanned for a chip (I even offered to take him). They declined and kept him inside and didn't try to find his owners. I was annoyed, because I figure he was someone's much loved pet, but on the other hand, whoever had him didn't keep an eye on him so I figure they couldn't have been the greatest owners. The neighbors who kept him said they were keeping him indoors, and naturally I was happy to hear that. We live on a residential street, but it's a cut-through street and people speed like crazy. There are also tons of loose dogs around here. Yesterday I saw their kitten playing in the front yard. *RAGE* Sorry to go off track, but the bottom line is that cats are at risk out doors, no matter where you live. And it sucks, but it's a reality that needs to be accepted.  SignatureLynne "We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly We are brave enough to bend to cry And sad enough to know We must laugh again" ~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech > on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:21:24 GMT, chatnoir <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > ~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech Thanks to all of you. I have passed on your messages of sympathy to her. Actually, I have only just walked in. I am afraid we have found out what happened to him & the story only gets worse... I was sitting here twiddling my thumb's so I figured I would go & see her (Michelle). Upon my arrival the police arrived too. Michelle's partner, Ivan was out in the garden some 40 minutes earlier, when he heard a Ping, closely followed by another, so close to him that he felt the air whistle past him. He knew immediately what it was..an Air Rifle!! He ran straight indoors and rang the police, because at the time, his son was in the garden with him. How dangerous could the situation have been. I was there when the police came in to take a statement & it turns out that 6 of the cat's owners live in a very close proximity to them. The information/statement was enough to warrant them going to the house where Ivan thought the pellets came from to investigate the facts and establish as much as they could under the circumstances. (Given that two people were shot at, one of which was an 18 month old little boy..mind numbing isn't it?) They were not invited in to the property & no statement was offered so they had to go back to the station to obtain a warrant to search the premises, which happens to be right next to a building site. They got their warrant went back to the house 30 Min's later with permission to search the property & the power to arrest anyone that they thought might have information to offer. .... It didn't take very long to establish the facts. One of the youths that lived there was found on the building site to the side of the house, directly behind Michelle's house with a spade trying to bury 3 cats, one of which was baby Jack. Ivan went to identify poor little Jack & 3 youths have been arrested & are presently being interviewed by the police..... To say that we are all devastated is a massive understatement. It seems almost impossible to conceive or believe that this has happened so soon after Ringo was shot just a few short miles down the road. I am filled with a rage that is even worse than I felt when that happened. I have no idea why it feels worse, but it does:o( I am feeling outraged, angry flooded with sorrow & utter sympathy for Michelle who I *know* loved him dearly. She was always sending me photos of him via mobile phone & I was receiving messages on a weekly basis for the whole of the last year to let me know what he was up to & how he was doing too. She is *Gutted*... I am simply too angry to even go near the place right now. I need to calm down first. I feel for Michelle though because she has to live there in the knowledge that this was done by someone that she used to call a neighbor..some neighbor!! I have no idea what will happen in this case because it was a different weapon, a child was shot at & the police caught them trying to conceal/dispose several cats @ the same time. I will keep you all informed though, rest assured on that one!! RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07 Here are a few photos of Jack the week he left us and went to live with his new mummy @ 12 weeks old...He will be greatly missed by us all http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/Jack I will keep you all informed as to how this one progresses of course.Right now for me jail would be too good for them. I am SEETHING... We do need to reconsider our security Lynne. It is is sad... Sheelagh on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh <sheelagh_madden@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > She is *Gutted*.. Oh my god. I am horrified. I don't know what else to say. Sheelagh, I'm so sorry. I need to throw up. SignatureLynne "We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly We are brave enough to bend to cry And sad enough to know We must laugh again" ~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech > on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh <sheelagh_madden@hotmail.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I need to throw up. ---------- I was just about to post "I need to throw up," but you beat me to it. There is nothing left to say..... Best regards, ---Cindy S. > > wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. >I need to throw up. I think we all feel the same way. I have been blubbering all day, but upon hearing hearing had been shot, my heart nearly burst.... The chances of that happening to us both must be however million to to two..but happen it has;o( I feel so disillusioned with humans right now & the anger that is bubbling in my tummy doesn't bare thinking about).. I am incredulous to be frank.. Jack was one of the softest natured cats that we have ever bred. Michelle has two small boys who used to cuddle him ,pick him up, play with him, even push him around in the buggy (push chair/stroller.. not sure what you would call it?) & even sleep with on the sofa with him as their pillow. both boys are inconsolable, as their mother is. Ivan is just about holding it all together but you can see & feel the tension in him. I just hope that he keeps a cool head & doesn't do anything (just yet..) to jeopardise any hope of nailing the B@stards. I have already spoken to the spoken to the news desk at our local paper to tell them about this story, & I have encouraged Michelle to find out who all of the other owners are & rally them all to do the same too. Why the hell should they get away with this. A BB Gun is something, but a powerful air rifle is something altogether different..or so I am led to believe. I don't know for sure. Also, they aimed at a man & his child in the sanctuary of their own garden & home too. In my book, that is a totally different kettle of fish.. Prison would be too good for them. Hanging might absolve some of our anger..How in all conscience, can you aim an air rifle at a child. I need to learn far more about guns. In fact I might even apply for a licence myself now. I see no reason for not getting one either...oh I don't know really. That would be wrong too. It is hard to look at it objectively right now. Perhaps I will see it better in the cold light of day? I am going to have to get hold of the Cat Protection League & ask them to notify everyone that they can to let people know what is happening to the cats in our area. We must all do something to protect them from maniacs. Jack didn't even reach his first birthday. How sad can it get? S. >> 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh <sheelagh_mad...@hotmail.co.uk> >> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > maniacs. > Jack didn't even reach his first birthday. How sad can it get? ----------- Oh, Sheelagh.......***Total Sobbing*** Best regards, ---Cindy S. >> > wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > S. This is truly a horror story. Do you know the ages of the culprits? Were they children, teenagers or adults? My sincere sympathy to all. MLB > >> "Lynne" <unmonitored.em...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Oh, Sheelagh.......***Total Sobbing*** Us too. It is a tremendous loss to us all. He was soft, handsome and in his prime of kitten-hood. A cat that anyone would have been proud to belong to him. No, I didn't even think to ask @ the time. The police just described them as youths. I will make a point of asking later this morning ( I don't like to ask now as it is 01.15am here), & I am hoping that after over 48 hours awake, that they might be able to get a little sleep tonight. It is tragic, but at least we know the truth now, horrific as it is...The not knowing was terrible. Thank you to all of you. I will pass on all your regards to the familly, later in the morning. Time to say a prayer & allow him to carry the bit of my heart that was & will ever be his as he crosses that Rainbow Bridge - & looks down with utter sympathy on his human family. He loved them as mutually as they loved him. It was plain as daylight is. I'm certain that he will miss them as much as they will miss him. Our only consolation is that he is in no pain any longer..He will always be in my heart & prayers. I was just fortunate & lucky enough to have the privilege of helping his maternal mother to cut his cord, care for him, wean him & and send him out into the big world with the right family to slave for him. I don't regret a moment of it or the family I chose either. Sheelagh > on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh <sheelagh_madden@hotmail.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I need to throw up. ----------- I just also posted that I needed to throw up and that there was nothing more to say. Actually, there is something more thing to say: For anyone who was previously defending the law that allows juveniles to get off with a warning and emerge with a clean record.....The fact that these animals who killed Jack and the other cats also shot at *people,* including an18-month-old toddler says it all. I hope these *youths* are prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and they are put away for a long, long time, but the unfortunate fact is that I am convinced that people such as these will remain a danger to society for the rest of their lives, no matter how they are punished. Psychopaths always start out hurting and killing animals. There is something totally terrifying about someone who is so devoid of emotion, sympathy, morals etc that he can cold-bloodedly kill a dozen cats and shoot an air rifle at a toddler, who also could have been killed. And the fact that it wasn't just one *youth* but several *youths* acting together is also terrifying. In the USA, if they had killed a person, the charge would have been first-degree murder, and in the USA, a juvenile who commits murder is prosecuted as an adult. Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail every year...I think that's terrifying. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > > wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail > every year...I think that's terrifying. OMG, Really..? That is dreadful. It is beyond my comprehension as to why we as tax payers should have to pay to keep cretins like this alive. The disgusting thought of killing an unborn child is worse than any other crime that I can think of. Horrific in fact...Bring back Hanging, or if we are too yellow bellied for that in the UK, the lethal injection will do just fine.... When Ringo was shot, I felt anger that I didn't know was within me..But that is nothing compared to what I feel today. as Bookie said, I was hoping against hope that he was in some one's garden shed, or even stolen.. But to be there when the police arrived to impart the news that they thought they had found Jack & that they needed someone to identify him then to take in the fact that they were aiming a weapon @ an 18 month old child, pushed me past anger & sent me into a rage I have ***never***experienced before.... Shooting @ a child HAS to be taken seriously. It **IS** ATTEMPED MURDER. I really can't tale it all in right now. It feels like I am hovering above myself watching it all unfold. I think the ultimate question has to be **WHY** did they do it??? I would imagine that I feel the same way @ this very moment as you all must have felt when you all heard about this Cho geyser. They are beyond feeling is my only thought.... Right now, they really do disgust me. I am in constant touch with Mummy ( Michelle) & will keep you all up to date with this as it unfolds. I will push her every inch of the way, & be there for her when she needs me too. this will not go unpunished, I assure you of that.. Our poor darling cat Jack. We will stand up and be counted for this crime.. S. > > "Lynne" <unmonitored.em...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > this crime.. > S. Wow I guess this is a serious problem!: http://www.gun-control-network.org/A004.htm excerpt: 2. CAMPAIGNS - AIRGUNS There has been a large rise in the number of airguns used in crime over the past ten years. The figure for 1990 was 5,380 weapons whereas by 1999/00 it had risen to 10,103. GCN's submission to the Home Affairs Committee (HAC) highlighted the extent of the damage that airguns can cause to people, animals and property by preparing a list of incidents derived from two sources, reports from a national newspaper during the last five years and information given by MPs during debates and committee sessions (see list below). Lethality & registration: GCN was disappointed at the Government's response to the HAC report. Although all airguns are not going to be licensed, we hope that the definition of a 'lethal weapon' will be such as to require the certification of a large number of airguns that are not currently within the licensing system. Airgun incidents - examples from the press & MPs: Daily Telegraph 7 August 1998 Airgun boy cleared of intent over a shot girl. A 16 year old teenager shot a 12 year old girl, Jasmine Proverbs, in the head while showing off a new £195 rifle fitted with telescopic sights and silencer. A bit of the pellet is still lodged in her brain. He had also shot Jasmine's brother in the leg the previous day. 11 November 1998 Air rifle attack on pupils. Four children and a dinner lady were hit by pellets fired from an air rifle at a playground of a Primary School. A 16 year old was arrested. 16 January 1999 Teenager shot in 'war game'. Richard Bryant, 13, was critically injured when a pellet fired from an airgun lodged in is skull. Four boys aged 11 to 14 were involved. A 14 year old was arrested. 13 July 1999 George Atkinson, 13, was fatally wounded after being hit by an airgun pellet in the garden of his aunt's house. Derby Evening Telegraph 28 August 2001 Cygnets shot in the head. Two young swans have been left with serious head injuries after being shot.... An RSPCA Inspector said 'Two people appear to have gone and deliberately used these swans as target practice with no regard to the suffering they must have gone through.' Ripley & Heanor News 20 September 2001 Teenager is shot in airgun incident. 15 year old Darren Harrison underwent emergency surgery on his stomach after being shot while walking along a public footpath. Surgeons were unable to remove the airgun pellet which wounded him. The police found evidence of target practice taking place on the path which runs between a wood and open fields. The Middlesbrough Gazette May 2001 Child killed. A Teeside child was killed on 3rd May 2001 by another child using its father's air rifle, prosecution pending. Examples given by MPs Mr Doug Henderson (Newcastle upon Tyne N). Standing Committee E. 21st November 1996. A 65 year old Aberdeenshire man died instantly after a pellet fired by a 17 year old taking pot-shots with his new airgun hit him after he stepped into the line of fire. Mr Gordon Prentice (Pendle) Standing Committee E. 21st November 1996. Residents on Leigh's biggest housing estate have had enough of teenage troublemakers who use waste bins for airgun practice even though young children are playing there. Dr Nick Palmer MP (Broxtowe) 21st January 1998. Reported that the Cat Protection League has estimated that every year 10,000 cats are killed or maimed. Jeff Ennis (Barnsley, East and Mexborough). Air Guns (Safety) 23rd June 1999. Adam Yoxall, aged 10, was hit in the eye by an airgun pellet while playing in a local wood. He lost the sight in is left eye A 12 year old boy was left in agony after being shot in the back by a sniper http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/9508.htm > > > "Lynne" <unmonitored.em...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 174 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Yes CN, It has certainly struck me very close to home I assure you;o( Also, thank you very much indeed for taking the time to research & also for providing link that you did, for us. It got me thinking & I set to work to see if there was an updated version of that link & I found it. I will add a link into this post shortly. I also looked it up in brader terms & I found a few other links too. I am going to post them because they are very relevant to the group, but more so those that live in the UK. However, I am going to see if I can find anything that would be of help to you all over the other side of the pond. Having said that, I don't believe that you have such a big as we do with this problem as we do, for 2 reasons. 1) Most of you seem to keep you cats as indoor only pets, so that knocks 50% of the problem right on the head... 2) Your kids or adults don't need to use imitation style guns or even air rifles, because you have access to the real thing. If someone has a trigger happy mind, they can do the job properly & ensure that they do shoot to kill. Here, they have to settle for second best. No one with the sort of mentality I have just spoken about, would get a gun licence here. The police would reject the request immediately. I don't believe for one moment that he hasn't already met the wrong side of the law @ 35 years old.. do you? I am inclined to agree with both Cindy & Bookie's theory on the subject.. It does start @ an early age & simply gets progressively worse, until they are either stopped, or taken aside and put in jail, or a mental institution..... I am desperate to make sure that this one doesn't fall to the way side @ all. I encouraged her to ring our local paper, email her Memeber of Parliament( after all that is what he is there for...to take our causes to parliament & present them!!) Please don't anyone of you take this as an insult because I certainly don't mean it to come across as one!! Michelle has also called the Rspca, The Cat Protection League, her vet & Wood Green Animal Shelter to alert them that there is a serious threat to cats in her area & also to inform them that if they get any shot cats in, that she believes she knows why and where the threat lies too. Here is an updated version of the brilliant link you so kindly provided for us: http://www.gun-control-network.org/INS0606.htm This is another one showing the terrible injuries that occur when idiotic psychotic maniacs get new * **TOYS*** http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-airgun.html And this one is about parliament & the updating of the gun laws too (if I remember rightly - I did this earlier, saved it, then had to hand over the PC to the kids for homework time). Thank you for presenting the facts and the idea too sheelagh > 2) Your kids or adults don't need to use imitation style guns or > even air rifles, because you have access to the real thing. If [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that he hasn't already met the wrong side of the law @ 35 years > old.. do you? Most kids here do not have access to the real thing. It's the odd story to hear of kids shooting cats with real guns. In fact I've never heard of one. Air guns maybe, but not real guns. Kids shoot other kids or other humans with real guns. Not cats. If they can get one. And that is gang related. SignatureCheryl > > 2) Your kids or adults don't need to use imitation style guns or > > even air rifles, because you have access to the real thing. If [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -- > Cheryl I am sorry if I came over as overbearing or to insinuate that American children are diferent to ours @ all. All I really meant was that if this idiot had a real gun, we would have dead people here because he is deranged. nothing else at all Cheryl. I apologies. Most kids over here are ok, but as with any where in the world, we have our problem kids too. In fact we have a current breed of children collectively called CHAVS who fit this description accurately The point here is that he is a 35 year old man.. He should know better, & If he is as deranged as I think he is, then he needs removing from society until he is safe to release, if ever....;o( . Most kids over here are ok, > but as with any where in the world, we have our problem kids too. > In fact we have a current breed of children collectively called CHAVS > who fit this description accurately how true, chavs are the scum of modern society > The point here is that he is a 35 year old man.. He should know > better, & If he is as deranged as I think he is, then he needs > removing from society until he is safe to release, if ever....;o(- i agree completely, the guy obviously has some psychological problem or deficiency which means he is unable to function and behave normlaly within our society and amongst other people/animals without feeling the need to harm them for his own enjoyment and he is incapable of grasping the pain and suffering he inflicts on them as a result (ie he is psychotic, has no awareness of what he is doing). it is unlikely that he can be 'rehabilitated, so for the safety of everyone else inthe world he needs tobe removed from society for the greater good > > > > "Lynne" <unmonitored.em...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 200 lines] > > read more » don't believe a word of it sheelagh, our kids are as rotten as they come. you only hear about a few dirty cat deeds... what about the ones you don't hear. at large our public does not have near the esteem towards animals that we need. of course we all know kids are mean a crap and, any kid can get into their dads gun cabinet shirl is right about gangs.. yes.. kids join gangs and they do have guns I wouldn't give a baby access to a razor blade, I should be darn sure to LOCK my guns away if I have un-stable boys.. only problem.. if my child is unstable, chances are I am too unstable to see it or act accordingly. however! I know plenty of 12, 13, 14 yr old boys, or I have known.. they like to go hunting with their dads or uncles etc... they have nice expensive shot guns and know how to use them... they are country and they are proud. by children I don't mean the same age as the fella at the school plenty was wrong, hind sight is 20/20, of course we could have prevented such but thats just hind sight, sometimes the solution was only 1/2 a frog hair away but being that close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. -- here's an honest question Why does it seem our off-spring is getting dumber and dumber I thought plenty of our fore-fathers and ancestors bore great burdens of responsibility long before say the age of 15 Not so anymore,.. these kids are sittin up angry they are angry? yes.. that's another story why are they angry and I'm dying to tell why it's many things, but comes down to one damn thing hypocrisy in the adults. corruption in authorities do as we say not as we do children and kids are smart so we let a boy live at home without actually earning his keep, never teach him the difference between a tail-pipe or a motor... A real man doesn't have to break up the dishes just to prove he's a man A real man just handles his business and doesn't put angers on his family. Then there's prohibition. If we banned alcohol again, we would see far less crime. The saloon is a mocker to the family structure of our society, yours too, the family. The saloon takes a good decent man and turns him into a stinking broke negro. It's not just one thing > > > > "Lynne" <unmonitored.em...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 233 lines] > Thank you for presenting the facts and the idea too > sheelagh They actually are doing this months incidents also!: http://www.gun-control-network.org/IN0407.htm > > > > > "Lynne" <unmonitored.em...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 237 lines] > > http://www.gun-control-network.org/IN0407.htm Thank you for pointing this out CN. I have reported both incident's to them. The BB Gun shooting regarding Ringo & also the Air Rifle incident where Jack was shot too. I have included all of the details that I am able to & also the crime numbers as well so that they can contact the police to verify the incidents with them. S;o) snip Thank you for pointing this out CN. I have reported both incident's to them. The BB Gun shooting regarding Ringo & also the Air Rifle incident where Jack was shot too. I have included all of the details that I am able to & also the crime numbers as well so that they can contact the police to verify the incidents with them. S;o) ---------- Sheelagh! I have been looking for your posts all morning. How is Michelle doing, and how is the case proceeding? Has the psycho been taken into custody? He did, after all, use deadly force against humans, and that should certainly be sufficient to get him arrested. I would think the newspapers would be very interested to hear about this dangerous criminal who is not only kidnapping and killing people's pets but has additionally aimed a rifle at two people, including an 18-month-old toddler. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > snip > Thank you for pointing this out CN. I have reported both incident's to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. (if I think my conection is about to go, then I will snd as much as I can, then try and conect to the internet agaib & carry one, ok? we have a problem with the conection @ the mo, & it's doing my nut in :o( Gosh, so much to tell you. The guy was arrested & also charged with 3 seperate charges. I have a feeling that this one will go to crown court because it is classed as a so serious offence that we think that the magistrates court will throw it straight out of their duristriction. He has been charged with shooting a gun within so many yards of the highway, shooting birds, & also concealing the evidence.... If the police had gone into the house when they were asked to come out istead of 3hours after the event, then they would ahve found all of the evidence before they had a chance to get shot of it!! I am angry about that, but there you have it! By the time the police got back with a warrent to search the house and grounds, all that they found was a slightly more powerf > > "sheelagh" <sheelagh_mad...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > - Show quoted text - your connection seems to have gone, but YAY YAY YAY!, lets hope they throw the fuckgin book at the c.nt!!!! let us know more when you get back online bookie > snip > Thank you for pointing this out CN. I have reported both incident's to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. If the police had gone in to the house when they arrived the 1st time, then they would have found all the evidence they needed to lock him up & throw away the key too. All they found was 3 birds;2woodpidgeons and a raven, a slightly more powerful gun than a BB gun &no ammunition at all. It is our belief that the had all the time that he needed to get rid of the rifle that he was using as well as the ammunition too. All the police were able to get was a statement the following day saying that he had been seen using a gun to shoot @ birds with & cars too. the only good bit in the statement was the fact that the gun they were shown was nothing like the gun they saw him using @ the time. The other point worth mentioning is that the gun they found him with would have been impossible to reach the road with if her was firing from his property, so it is more than obvious that he did conceal a weapon of some sort because of the cats that they found him trying to bury & the birds found too. they had different pellets in them than they should have done with the gun he professed to be using.. He denied shooting @ both Ivan(jack's daddy & Thomas, their child). He also denied that he shot the cats, & professed that he was burying them out of fear of being accused of shooting them too..yeah right(NOT!!)..But he did admit to sedating the Birds which on its own is worth a £1000 fine!! Not enough, but a good start.. I hear that he had a really hard time getting bail (Bond?) because the police feared that he might leave the country, so they took his passport off him..Good Job, is all that I say about that! He also has to report to a police station every 48 hours so that even if he try'ss doing a runner, they would find out very soon afterwards...;we were hoping that he would be denied bail.. such a pity;all they did was keep him overnight so that he appeared in front of the judge the fol owing morning. I didn't attend the hearing, but Ivan did & was able to tell us the conditions attached to it. If they had only gone straight into the house the first time round sighting the anti terrorism act, & the new animal act, they would have caught him with the gun he "must have had", the ammunition her was using and everything that he had shot as well. It makes me angry just thinking about it ..these laws were made for that reason.. so that they could go straight in if there was a chance that there was a rogue firearm, to protect the public in general. For all we know he could be a terrorist;not all terrorists are clothed in middle eastern garb & have Muslim names..In fact on the contrary, most of them don't!! I think too many people assume just that in fact! The more I think about it, the angrier I get. Lets face it, he might have been target practising for that very reason.. & now, we will never know because of that initial error on their behalf. I am going to try and add a link to a site that shows you the punishments that out courts are able to inflict/ hand down, for anyone so stupid as to try shooting anything at all without proper permission or licence... http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/9508.htm I have only just realised that all I have to do is prepare what I wish to say off line, then copy and paste it to the bottom of the page that I wish to reply to.. what a dimwitt!! Still, I live and learn every day... Michelle, Jack's mummy is destroyed. Nothing will ever bring him back, & she is determined to follow this case through & see this man put behind bars for as many years as she can as a tribute to him. I am certain that she will never truely get over this incident, the same as the rest of us fell when we loose our precious cats. she blames herself &will never have another cat until she has a decent cat run installed ready and waiting for when her kitten or cat comes home...She has been considering taking on a an older Ragdoll from the Ragdoll rescue line. I think this would be an excellent idea personally.... http://www.parkvets.com/petsandvets-airgun.html I truely do feel so sorry for her. After the event, there is no point in blaming her for what happened. It is done now and I see little point in berating her More later as visitors have just turned up..... I have passed on all of your messages of sympathy & she appreciates them no end. She also wishes to thank you all for support and will join us on here in time... Thanks from me too. S.. anyway who blames her for jacks awful demise or holds her responsible is an arsehole, simple. I can quite understand that in this country she woudl allow her cats to go outside and the last thing she would expect would be some nutcase taking potshots at animals from his bedroom window at anything that moves, it just does not happen inthis country, that is a very rare thing for us, we normally consider our country to be safe for our kids and our animals to live in and enjoy without such dangers lurking and so do nto normally see the reason to keep our pets inside as people in other countries do. i really hope that they can lock this nutter away or deport him or something, heis obviously psychologically unhinged to have done what he did and for this reason alone shoudl be locked up away from innocent people and animals. have you or anyone else made a complaint to the police board about the slackness of the plolice to respond to the reports of some nutter shooting at passersby? i think it is appaling that they took hours to respond to the call, the guy coudl have killed a number of people in the time it took for them to get to him, pathetic effort. You are right aboutthe terrorism thing, who knows what he was up to , he may have been part of some organisation opr something and not just some lone nutter, but the police obviously decided to take the chance that he wasn't part oif a terrorist group and they gambled with people's lives. Yes you or someone shoud make a complaint abou tthis cos that is not on. hopefully michelle will adopt a rescue ragdoll, jack may have lost his little life but she coudl know channel her energy and grief into giving a new lease of life to an older cat who really needs her love and a home. i hate being far away and helpless about this, i wish there was somethign I could do. bookie > anyway who blames her for jacks awful demise or holds her responsible > is an arsehole, simple. I can quite understand that in this country [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > bookie I forwarded some of the posts on here to her. I think she was comforted to know that others didn't blame her entirely. And, I think she has done a brilliant job of that all on her own..( blaming herself)....Poor girl, I really do feel for her... It is terribly hard to explain to anyone that doesn't live here, how very abnormal it is to keep your cat indoors unless there is a particular reason for doing so, such as HUGE risk or Pedigree cats that someone might be inclined to steal. Although he was one, there was no reason to think anyone would pinch him from his own garden. On this occasion, she did take her eye off the ball but then again, we all do @ times I guess... All of us has written to the Police to complain about the response time & the fact that they had the powers to go in to that house and seize the ammunition, but failed to do so. Taking his passport after the event, really just isn't good enough. I pointed out the same argument regarding his possibility of being a terrorist and it being far too late after the event, & the others have done it through their outlook on the event. I have done the newspapers, the local radio station ( who have covered the story too BTW;o).. I am rather hoping that she will go to Ragdoll rescue because she has the love to offer & 99% of them are all used to being indoor or ex breeding cats that simply need love and attention which she has an abundance of to share. I'm not sure that she is quite ready yet though ( & whop could blame her there?) The run arrives on Tuesday & I'm sure she will think carefully before accepting another cat again .I would encourage her to in this instance because she has a lot of love to devote and is one of those really genuine people ( all to rare these days) who would offer a cat of any sort or type, the perfect home and love too.. More news when we have it... S;o) > I forwarded some of the posts on here to her. I think she was > comforted to know that others didn't blame her entirely. noone should be blaming her AT ALL, it was not her fault in any way as far as I am concerned, how was she to blame for some nutcase choosing to open fire on any innocent creature within sight? she allowed her cat outside under her supervision in an area where she believed (from past experience) that he woudl be safe from any harm, she did nothing wrong at all. To blame her at all would be like blaming a parent whose kid gets snatched from a local playground by some paedophile for not locking their kid up 24 hours a day, or how about about blaming someone who gets knocked over and killed whilst walking along the pavement (sidewalk) by some drunk w.nker in a stolen car who is going at 80mph, loses control of the car and leaves the road and mounts the path? or how about a rape victim who is attacked in the middle of the afternoon and dragged into bushes while walking along a quiet suburban street? that to me is about the same and noone would think of blaming them for what may happen to them. If anyone blames her for what happened is obviously a cretin and their opinion is not worth worrying about. And, I think > she has done a brilliant job of that all on her own..( blaming > herself)....Poor girl, I really do feel for her... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > outlook on the event. I have done the newspapers, the local radio > station ( who have covered the story too BTW;o).. good i was hoping you would write to the local apers and kick up a stink about it, the police may ignore your letter to them but they won't be able to ignore such bad press. bunch of w.nkers, if anyone is to blame for what happened to jack it is the police and not your friend bookie > > I forwarded some of the posts on here to her. I think she was > > comforted to know that others didn't blame her entirely. [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I certainly don't blame her. I can't see why any one would Bookie. sh.t happens & this is just that... I wonder if the Police can Ignore a complain that is sent to the police complaints commission? I really don't think that they can, can they? Another thought. I have passed on all this info to the Cat Protection League & also the RSPCA too. Can the Police ignore them? It is such a shame that the RSPCA end up having to take these cases on as private prosecutions which deplete all of their funds doing what the Police should be doing to start with.. Ooh it makes my blood boil just thinking about it.... I can understand how vigilante groups start up & why, but it wouldn't be appropriate & I wouldn't consider it unless I had to go through this time and time again. In such cases, you could understand why others do though, can't you? Sheelagh <snip> > Michelle, Jack's mummy is destroyed. Nothing will ever bring him back, > & she is determined to follow this case through & see this man put [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Thanks from me too. > S.. Tell her that over here, where it's much, much more common to keep cats indoors, there are still loving, responsible cat owners who make the same mistake, even though we have a much longer list of reasons to keep the cats inside. (Fishers, coyotes, bobcats, etc.) Without all the wildlife dangers, it must seem much more natural to let your cats out. And inside or outside, EVERYONE will have occasional moments when their attention slips. Parents of toddlers have known for millenia that no, it's NOT possible to watch them every single second, and something can happen during those seconds of inattention. It's the same with our pets. No one else should blame her, and she should leave off blaming herself, rather than the sicko, as quickly as she can manage. Lis > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I have spoken to her this morning & we discussed the pictures that others have posted here. I have sent links over to her to see what is possible should she choose to build one. Anyway, in IMHO, that is half the fun of it. Making a pleasurable place for both cats and slaves has to be a good thing & benefits all. I think she is coming to terms with it all, but will always miss him terribly as we all do when one of our faithful friend crosses the bridge. It is only herself that blames her, as anyone would if they had a child and this happened. I too hope they lock the idiot up for a few years and loose the key as well!! S;o) > > > > > "Lynne" <unmonitored.em...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 199 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Thank you very much for the information that you brought to my attention. I have emailed them & given them all of the details involved with both cats; Ringo & Jack, as well as the crime numbers and every bit of detail that I could too. I am hoping that with this information, they can contact the police and should be able to add this information to their database so that others know what is happening in this area as well. I now see this is a huge problem & that everyone should be aware of what is happening everywhere, sadly;o( Thanks again, S;o) > > > > > "Lynne" <unmonitored.em...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 237 lines] > > http://www.gun-control-network.org/IN0407.htm Thank you so much for giving me the update on this link CN. I have emailed them with all of the details regarding both Ringo's shooting with a BB Gun & also Jack's shooting too. I included all of the detail that I had to offer as well as the crime numbers so that they could check with the police and their data base to confirm what I told them, so with any luck they should both be on this page as well quite shortly. S;o) on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 00:01:57 GMT, sheelagh > Right now, they really do disgust me. I am in constant touch with > Mummy ( Michelle) & will keep you all up to date with this as it > unfolds. I will push her every inch of the way, & be there for her > when she needs me too. this will not go unpunished, I assure you of > that.. Our poor darling cat Jack Sheelagh, please let Michelle know that another cat lover on the other side of the Atlantic is sending healing thoughts her way, and also to her children. I'm sending them to you, too, of course, my dear. I can't even begin to put myself in her place or in your place--I don't want to! This is just too awful. I just don't know what to say, though, because it makes me physically ill. SignatureLynne, holding my kitties extra close tonight "We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly We are brave enough to bend to cry And sad enough to know We must laugh again" ~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech > That is dreadful. It is beyond my comprehension as to why we as tax > payers should have to pay to keep cretins like this alive. The > disgusting thought of killing an unborn child is worse than any other > crime that I can think of. Horrific in fact...Bring back Hanging, or > if we are too yellow bellied for that in the UK, the lethal injection > will do just fine.... Hanging, hell! Bring back drawing and quartering for these sociopaths! Hugs, CatNipped >> That is dreadful. It is beyond my comprehension as to why we as tax >> payers should have to pay to keep cretins like this alive. The [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > CatNipped I am more in the mood for burning at the stake or cat o' nine tails maybe a little country justice leather strap + rubbing alcohol and salt than comes the branding iron When we are all done castrations like we do with horse or bulls > > wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > been first-degree murder, and in the USA, a juvenile who commits murder is > prosecuted as an adult. i agree with you totally here, there is known to be a very strong link between people who have hurt or jkilled animals in their youth and those who go onto hurt and abuse humans later on in life now personally i think it is evil enough to inflict cruelty and pain on animals, domestic or not, and that alone should produce a long custodial sentence for the offender, but if the idea that the person will then go on to hurt humans (who in my opinion now do not deserve my sympathy) gets such a monster put away because of what they MIGHT do in future then that is fine by me. It's a means to and end you see > Someone told me this past week that Charlie Manson, a 1960s psychopath who > managed to brainwash a bunch of people into murdering 11 other people and > gutting them and writing things on the walls of their homes with their own > blood (and in one case cutting an unborn child out of pregnant woman's > belly), who has been in prison for years, gets 25,000 pieces of fan mail > every year...I think that's terrifying. some nutty woman wants to marry him, or maybe she has already, what is wrong with these people? how can they idolise this person? bookie >> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh <sheelagh_madden@hotmail.co.uk> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >Best regards, >---Cindy S. Sheelagh, all my sympathy to your friend & you for this terrible act. I don't know how juveniles are treated in England, & cindys says in the US, a juvenile is treated as an adult. Good thing this didn't happen in Canada, because here juveniles who commit any offence (as well as all adult criminals) are coddled & barely punished - if indeed they're ever brought to trial in time - lawyers delay & delay & delay & then the charges are thrown out & the criminals go free. And of course, we must not abuse their rights, because there must be something awful in their background that caused them to do this i.e. it's always society's fault - no one wants to take responsibility for what they've done, just pass the blame. Canadian justice concentrates on the rights of the criminals, not on the rights of the victims & their families. And if the police are lucky enough to press charges & actually get a conviction, the criminals are usually out of jail after serving less than 1/3 of the sentence - & sentences here are *much* more lenient than in the US. Sorry for the rant! M. > >> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:37:15 GMT, sheelagh <sheelagh_mad...@hotmail.co.uk> > >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > - Show quoted text - that so pisses me off when the authorities care more about the criminal's rights than the victims, as far as i am concerned the criminals have no rights, they forfeited their rights when they inflicted pain and suffering on another living creatrures or took away it's life. And then all this crap about 'its society's fault', what a load of crap, some of these nasty kids come from perfectly good homes (I know this from the kids I have taught, you expect their parents to be nightmares but you meet them and you are sometimes shiocked at how normal and pleasant they are, but they are sh.t parents who don;t discipline their cretinuous offspring and that is a major part of the problem). The problem is that these kids are never disciplined for wrongdoing by their weak parents who ar usually too scared of being dragged off by social services on charges a of child abuse for hitting their kids when it s badly needed for the kids own good. Instead the kids are usually praised all the time and given present and toys and the like to keep them quiet and happy in the hope that it will keep them out of trouble (fat chance), in a way trying to 'buy' their good behaviour. well it does not work does it? kids are not taught right form wrongn in that way and they need to knwo what is wrong and that certain behaviour is utterly wrong and that they will be punished severl;y when they behave like that. unfortunately, as I ahve said before, a lot of kids are too slow intheir emotional development to grasp the concept that they are inflicting pain and suffering on others (humans or animals) and they instead just focus ontheir own instant pleasure and gratification. this is where the concept of' reasoning with them' breaks down becuase to reason with these kids and get them to realise the awfulness of what they have done requires them to be of a certain level of intelligence and emotional maturity inoder to undertsand that thy have made another creature feel pain just as they do when they are hurt, to be able to feel sympathy with another creature in pain, to do this takes a lot of psychological development which I feel a lot of young kids (particualrly boys due to differences in brain development rates) do not have. The only way to stop this rise in violent episodes such as these shootings is to coem down hard on these kids with a hefty punishment, preferably a physical one, and the parenst should be dishing this out from an early age. It is the concept of conditioning which I ahve mentuioned before; if little jonny goes and kicks a cat he gets a kicing himself, he is told that if he wants to avoid getting a kicking or a smack himself then he must not kick the cat, very simple. Little jonny no longer kicks the cat because he knows that if he does he will be made to feel a bit of physical pain and a lot of humiliation when he smacked across the bum by his mum in front of everyone, simple system but HIGHLY effective, the child avoid carrying out undesriable behaviours in order to avoid a punishment (works with rats anyway!). I apologise for any bad typing inthe above but this whole thing, the shootings, the leniancy of courts and police etc, makes me sooooooooooo angry, I am glad that my 2 cats are far too lazy to go far from the back garden and that our garden is surrounded by others. please give michelle my deepest sympathies, and myself, jessie and terri are all rooting for the perpetrators of this evil deed to be thoroughly punished bookie Sheelagh I am so sorry. I am in tears right now. I am going to go find a peaceful place with my furballs for a while before I go find some reason to get into trouble >> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:21:24 GMT, chatnoir <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > > Sheelagh > > on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:21:24 GMT, chatnoir <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 112 lines] > > - Show quoted text - poor soft little angel, he looked so beautiful with those big blue eyes, poor little darling. i tell you if I had come across that kid trying to bury those cats I would have taken the spade from his hands and smashed his evil head in with it, what a nasty little sh.t, someone like that should not be allowed to walk the streets free, obviously has no respect for life of any sort and does not deserve any leniancy form any judge. It is people like that who make me truly ashamed to be human, killing innocent creatures purely of the fun of it. nasty stuff and i feel for poor jacks mum she must miss him so bad bookie > > on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:21:24 GMT, chatnoir <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > Jack & 3 youths have been arrested & are presently being interviewed > by the police..... This is too disgusting for words. I don't know what to say. > To say that we are all devastated is a massive understatement. It > seems almost impossible to conceive or believe that this has happened [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > to conceal/dispose several cats @ the same time. I will keep you all > informed though, rest assured on that one!! A child being shot at should boost this into a whole different category. Can minors be tried as adults in the UK? > RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07 > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sheelaghmadden/Jack He was a beautiful kitty! > I will keep you all informed as to how this one progresses of > course.Right now for me jail would be too good for them. I am > SEETHING... > We do need to reconsider our security Lynne. It is is sad... Yes, please do keep us informed. Lis >> on Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:21:24 GMT, chatnoir <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > > Sheelagh I feel so terrible for what has happened, he was such a gorgeous, innocent looking cat. How any person wouldn't just feel warmth and love for such a fragile creature, I will never understand. It just proves to me how I wish our entire species would die from a painful global killer virus. We do not deserve to exist. > RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07 Believe me, I'm not picking on your Sheelagh - but this is the sh.t that makes me crazy. If people are just bound and determined to let their cats run loose (claiming they're safe doing so because of which part of the world they live in), then please, *PLEASE* don't come back and write about such horrible deaths. Can you understand how frustrated and enraged that makes some of us feel????! Hugs, CatNipped >> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07 > > Believe me, I'm not picking on your Sheelagh - but this is the sh.t that > makes me crazy. If people are just bound and determined to let their cats > run loose -------- In the case of Jack, my impression was that he was just sitting on the patio wall. He may not have been running loose. I was actually wondering if he (and the other cats) hadn't been snatched. You sometimes hear stories about dogs who are chained or tied in their own yards and someone comes along and unties them and takes them. Best regards, ---Cindy S. >>> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07 >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. Oh, I thought Sheelagh said he got shot in a field close to his home. Anyway, I know that people whose cats are hit by a car, murdered, or mauled by dogs are just as heartbroken as someone who loses and indoor cat to disease or old age - so I don't mean to add to that hurt (and I *REALLY* don't want to start up the indoor-outdoor debate again). It just really makes me sick to my stomach to imagine any sentient creature dying violently. Hugs, CatNipped >>>> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07 >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Oh, I thought Sheelagh said he got shot in a field close to his home. ------- Yes, she did say that, but the question was how did he get to that field when he typically never left the patio wall? (at least that was what I gleaned). Someone could have snatched him off the patio wall, taken him to the field and shot him. I don't think Sheelagh said for sure what happened because she didn't know. Nor did Jack's mom know. She said she turned her back for a second, and Jack suddenly disappeared. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > Anyway, I know that people whose cats are hit by a car, murdered, or > mauled by dogs are just as heartbroken as someone who loses and indoor cat [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > CatNipped >>>>> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07 >>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. I can only imagine how devastated she must be. Jessie is the only one of ours that ever tries to get out (the others are so afraid of the "OUT" that they don't even go near an open door). And Jessie is only out for as long as it take us to chase her down. I am always horrified when she does slip past us - I can't imagine how awful it would feel to have a cat just disappear. Knowing their fate, however horrifying it may be, *HAS* to be better than never knowing and imagining all sorts of horrors happening to my babies (or even imagining them lost and alone wondering why their Mommy doesn't come rescue them). Anyway, it's a sad situation and my sympathies go out to all involved. Hugs, CatNipped >> Anyway, I know that people whose cats are hit by a car, murdered, or >> mauled by dogs are just as heartbroken as someone who loses and indoor [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> CatNipped > >>>> RIP our beloved Jack. 19.7.06 - 20-4.07 > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > - Show quoted text - So sorry for leaving this thread hanging. I have spent the day with Michelle trying to help her go through the motions with the police, the offender & dealing with poor little Jacks death too. > Yes, she did say that, but the question was how did he get to that field > when he typically never left the patio wall? (at least that was what I > gleaned). Someone could have snatched him off the patio wall, taken him to > the field and shot him. I don't think Sheelagh said for sure what happened > because she didn't know. Nor did Jack's mom know. She said she turned her > back for a second, and Jack suddenly disappeared. > > Oh, I thought Sheelagh said he got shot in a field close to his home. I just wanted to clarify that I think we are cross threading here. I have a feeling that you might be confusing both cats that were shot? Ringo, IS our Big ginger boy who was the one that was found shot & seriously injured cat in the field. The field is directly behind our house & has no bearing on Jacks death at all. we live in separate villages 7 miles away from each other... And Jack, was found on a building site, right behind Michelle's home, where the guy who shot him, was trying to conceal his body in a hole that he was digging when the police arrived.... > Anyway, I know that people whose cats are hit by a car, murdered, or > > mauled by dogs are just as heartbroken as someone who loses and indoor cat > > to disease or old age - so I don't mean to add to that hurt (and I > > *REALLY* don't want to start up the indoor-outdoor debate again). It just > > really makes me sick to my stomach to imagine any sentient creature dying > > violently. I know this Catnipped. I don't take it personally, because I have had to reconsider our personal safety & security recently. you are preaching to the converted here. I **never** want to have to go through this again, ever... The only time that Jack was allowed out, was when they were home. He **Never** wondered off, which is why they were so concerned when he didn't come in @ supper-time... Their house & gardens are all fenced in & he was only on the front wall saying good bye to Ricky ( her son). Michelle brought him back into their garden straight after this, & they are totally cat proof in their garden. I am going to add a link to show you what their garden is surrounded by proper cat fencing.. which & also what I am considering doing in our garden to ensure that all of our cats have a little outside life, rather than keeping them indoors 24/7. I am going to add a link here so that you can appreciate/understand what I propose doing to our garden. I would like to hear what others of you think about the idea before I shell out 100's of pounds on something that might, or **might not work**? Thanks in advance for this one! http://www.purrfectfence.com/?gclid=CJTyl8nS2YsCFSOZEAodHH_UXA I feel that this would be more appropriate, than allowing a select few of the cats to have more freedom than the others do... However, after this incident, I wonder if this would be enough to ensure their safety? I *know* that it would be enough right now, but in time, neighbors might move, & I have no idea who might move in instead of them.?#!??? I really wish I could explain how abnormal it is to keep your cat confined indoors over here. Nevertheless, I am no longer willing to take the chance of allowing mine out of our garden, but I need to be reassured that this fencing works before installing it. The story gets worse the more I hear;o( I mistakenly told you that there were youths involved in the Air Rifle shooting... I wish to rectify my mistake by informing you that there were no youths involved!! I got the story wrong... In fact, it was a 35 year old man who has been leaning out of his bedroom window for a couple of weeks( according to their neighbors who had already warned the police of his activities...?!!!), shooting anything that moves. Cats, people, birds, cars...Anything. Michelle, Jacks mummy went to the news agents this morning to remove her advert offering a reward to anyone who could lead them to their missing cat, & the lady behind her had an advert with more or less the same wording. Poor Michelle had to ask her where she lived.. which turned out to be a street or so away behind her..then had to relate the story about the discovery of Jacks body on the building site which was adjacent to their home too. They swapped numbers, & this afternoon the same woman rang Michelle to tell her that their cat was one of the bodies that he was caught trying to conceal. I have no need to tell you that she was destroyed upon hearing the news as Michelle was. I know that many people would stare blankly @ you if you told them this, but they are obviously not cat slaves.. if they were, there would be no blank look.. there would be empathy for the crimes of a mass murderer... because that is what this is.... Telling you all about this thread is like re living through my Ringo's nightmare all over again. The sense of deja vous is more than sickening. Everything feels the same & sounds the same, except we were lucky & we still have old Ringo, & Michelle has lost her beloved friend. All of it is simply Sickening.. I know that you all understand what I mean. I don't seek sympathy for either myself, or her either. Merely constructive idea's as to how we might improve cats security without making them completely indoor cats, IF THAT IS POSSIBLE? Sheelagh > http://www.purrfectfence.com/?gclid=CJTyl8nS2YsCFSOZEAodHH_UXA It looks good. My only concern would be cats digging/crawling underneath. Then again, it doesn't sound as if your cats are actively trying to escape. They just want to sit outside for some fresh air. I have heard of people installing enclosed above-ground cat runs that go from the inside of the house to the outside, composed of an extensive maze of tunnels. This may be another possibility. > I feel that this would be more appropriate, than allowing a select few > of the cats to have more freedom than the others do... However, after > this incident, I wonder if this would be enough to ensure their > safety? I *know* that it would be enough right now, but in time, > neighbors might move, & I have no idea who might move in instead of > them.?#!??? If some looney tune is bound and determined to come onto your private property and hurt or steal your cats, no kind of a fence is going to stop him. > I really wish I could explain how abnormal it is to keep your cat > confined indoors over here. Nevertheless, I am no longer willing to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > had already warned the police of his activities...?!!!), shooting > anything that moves. Cats, people, birds, cars...Anything. Oh my God! A bonafide psycho. And BTW, at least in the USA, shooting at people is called "assault with deadly intent." He could be sent to federal prison for quite a while. It's not going to bring Jack and the other cats back, but at least he'll be someplace where he won't be able to hurt anyone. The reality, however, is that he sounds mentally ill and will probably end up in an institution of some sort, which probably is where he belongs. Best regards, ---Cindy S. on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:47:37 GMT, "cindys" <cstein1@rochester.rr.com> wrote: >> http://www.purrfectfence.com/?gclid=CJTyl8nS2YsCFSOZEAodHH_UXA > > It looks good. My only concern would be cats digging/crawling > underneath. That's the same fencing I was looking at. I would think you could secure the runs between posts with long stakes. I am not sure if I will go with something like that or if I will build a fully enclosed screen room, with a roof. With all the other construction going on here this summer, it will be another year before I get mine built, though. SignatureLynne "We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly We are brave enough to bend to cry And sad enough to know We must laugh again" ~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech >> http://www.purrfectfence.com/?gclid=CJTyl8nS2YsCFSOZEAodHH_UXA > > It looks good. My only concern would be cats digging/crawling > underneath. I used what looks like the same fencing material to make my cats outdoor enclosure. I used garden stakes to hold the material tight to the ground and haven't had a problem with digging underneath. They sure like to dig holes *inside* the enclosure though! And I had to cover it because Shamrock climbed it even though it was wobbly. http://new.photos.yahoo.com/shambondow/photo/294928803989704127/0 SignatureCheryl on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:27:18 GMT, sheelagh > I don't seek sympathy for either myself, or her either. Merely > constructive idea's as to how we might improve cats security without > making them completely indoor cats, > IF THAT IS POSSIBLE? Well you have got my sympathy, Sheelagh, as well as lots of tears shed on behalf of you, Michelle, and those poor, poor cats. This is beyond horrible, and I doubt that cat fencing would have prevented this maniac from doing what he did. On the other hand, keeping them confined to your garden *should* be safe. I, too, have plans to build a cat enclosure in my back yard. I think it's the best compromise, despite the risk from people like the man who killed these cats. I would like to think there aren't a lot of psychos like him, but I will also only let my cats into their enclosure when I am home. SignatureLynne "We are strong enough to stand tall tearlessly We are brave enough to bend to cry And sad enough to know We must laugh again" ~ Nikki Giovanni, 4/17/2007, Virginia Tech > on Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:27:18 GMT, sheelagh > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > horrible, and I doubt that cat fencing would have prevented this maniac > from doing what he did. ---------- In this particular tragedy, I don't think the guy killed the cats while they were in their own yards. My current impression from Sheelagh is that the guy was in his own house shooting out his window at anything or anyone that passed by. I previously thought that maybe he was snatching cats and bringing them to the building site and killing them there, but on the basis of what Sheelagh subsequently posted, it seems like the current theory is that Jack really did wander off. Of course, this is not to suggest that a cat couldn't be in a fenced yard and a wacko could trespass and shoot the cat in the cat's own yard through the fence, although I think this scenario would be less likely. I think the greater risk is that the cat would be snatched and taken elsewhere to be shot. OMG...I am in total disbelief that I am sitting here trying to think logically and unemotionally about how someone would be likely to go about shooting a cat (in terms of ease of access and reduction of risk to himself). That we should have to think in these terms is totally appalling. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > >> I don't seek sympathy for either myself, or her either. Merely > >> constructive idea's as to how we might improve cats security without [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. > In this particular tragedy, I don't think the guy killed the cats while they > were in their own yards. My current impression from Sheelagh is that the guy [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > would be less likely. I think the greater risk is that the cat would be > snatched and taken elsewhere to be shot I believe that the polices theory is that the child left the side door open & that he was able to pick the cat up & put it in his car, then took him to shoot it elsewhere. It is only a theory, but there is more evidence to suggest that he did, than tried to pick him up & carry him off.. that would have taken precious time which he didn't have.... If we have aportion blame, it was Michelle's for not checking that he was secure in the sanctuary of the house or the back garden which was fenced off for his safety. One other thing that I forgot to mention, is that Jack loved jumping in cars, so this a very real potential scenario;when ever they got into the car up the driveway, he would jump in, in the hope that he might be allowed to come too. Michelle very often took him out on reins whenever they went to her mothers, which was on a frequent basis. So it is the most possible/likely thing that could have happen because he loved the car rides. When Michelle went out with her husband, she didn't just take the kids, she took Jack too to be cat/baby sat. She wouldn't have dreamed of leaving him @ home alone! < I smile remembering that> Her mother loved him almost as much as she did. With regard to remorse & guilt, I don't think that anyone could make her feel feel any guiltier than she already does. In her own words..."How could I have let him down so badly. I wouldn't allow Thomas out the front & it could so easily have been him as well, or instead". I have *never* seen someone feel so dreadful about herself. Of course she blames herself, however destructive the emotion is, she won't be persuaded otherwise. I don't blame her. We are human, & we *all* err..it's human nature > OMG...I am in total disbelief that I am sitting here trying to think > logically and unemotionally about how someone would be likely to go about > shooting a cat (in terms of ease of access and reduction of risk to > himself). That we should have to think in these terms is totally appalling. > Best regards, > ---Cindy It is appalling. It's staggering to think that he was so calculating, premeditated. He **MUST** have let him into the car & literally drove off, only taking him around the corner to use as target practise on the building site... On the second occasion, when he shot @ Ivan & Thomas, it was definately from a window in the upstairs of his building/home, because Ivan saw him there when he was trying to work out where it had come from. I feel sick just considering it. How could any man choose to stand at a window & fire at a child & another man? The **ONLY** reason that I can think of is because when the police originally attended the call from the them, he asked Ivan to point out the house, & he accompanied the officer to the front door, when he admitted owning a gun, but denied firing it @ them. I am currently waiting for another update now. it is frustrating because Michelle works 3 jobs, so I have to catch her in @ the right time... The more I find out, the sooner I will update you. All I know today is that the TFRU (tactical firearms response unit), where coming to take a statement tonight..... He is in great need of sectioning..~(over here, the medics can force you into being held my a mental institution if they feel that you are a danger to yourself or others in your current mental state)...as should have been done with Cho in VA, in hindsight... Sheelagh > In fact, it was a 35 year old man who has been leaning out of his > bedroom window for a couple of weeks( according to their neighbors who > had already warned the police of his activities...?!!!), shooting > anything that moves. Cats, people, birds, cars...Anything. knowing what a bunch of useless a-holes the police tend to be over here and how they will not lift a finger unless someone has already been murdered or similar, I would just go and sort the guy out myself, not wait for the fuzz to do anything, cos they won't, even if he were targetting humans they won't until he hits someone. It's thoroughly sh.t but thats the way it is. now the thing is that if they made an example of this guy and threw the book at him (slightly more possible now we know he is an 'adult') then it may well put off other nutters and morons from spending their spare time in a similarly deranged and murderous fashion and then we will be able to let our kitties out safely. Unfortunately, this does not tend to happen so vicious youths like this man will go out taking pot shots at innocent animals, safe in the knowledge that nothing will happen to them via the official channels (although believe me, if they harm a hair on the heads of my cats they will f.cking well know about it, i will not be leaving the matter solely inthe hands of police and those other ineffectual agencies who do f.ck all and allow evil scum to go free). THAT is the problem really, the fact that these little turds know they can get away with it, and so they will continue to do so and make certain neighbourhoods unsafe for anyone, so the sooner they are punished and removed the sooner the message that this kind of antisocial and evil behaviour will nto be tolerated and it will cease to be. i am gettign angry again about the whole thing bookie > > In fact, it was a 35 year old man who has been leaning out of his > > bedroom window for a couple of weeks( according to their neighbors who [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > bookie |
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