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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / May 2004ibd + diabetes
Hi. My cat Al has had a rough go of it the last 6 months. First, pancreatitis, which necessitated a week's stay in the hospital. Then, hypoglycemia about 3 weeks ago---scared the sh*t out of me! It occurred around midnight, and I was running red lights and stop signs getting Al to the emergency vet (also happens to be my normal vet). And yesterday Al had an endoscopy. The vet---a specialist, actually---took a biopsy. The results will be back on Thursday. The vet doesn't think it's cancer; he did notice that Al's intestinal lining was a bit inflamed and said what he saw was consistent with ibd. Does anyone here have any experience dealing with the ibd & diabetes combination? I know the normal course of treatment for ibd is sterioids. But that interferes with insulin. I'd very much like to hear about the experiences of other cat owners who have had to deal with similar situations. Thanks. Rich > Hi. My cat Al has had a rough go of it the last 6 months. First, > pancreatitis, which necessitated a week's stay in the hospital. Then, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Rich I'm sorry about your kitty. I have a kitty with IBD (and FelV+ to boot, so multiple illnesses with meds to help one illness, yet hurt another are nothing new to us) and when I asked his vet about Entocort (budesonide) as a substitution for the Prednisone he is on, she said there would be no difference in how it works on inflammation, but would hold off on trying that if/when he gets diabetes. It is metabolized differently than the usual steroids (supposedly). It might be worth asking about, but if your vet is anything like mine, she won't try new drugs unless looking for a miracle if there aren't real studies done, and the drug is an established treatment. Apparently budesonide isn't there yet.  SignatureCheryl >From: Newsman newsman@verizon.net >'d very much like to hear about the experiences of other >cat owners who have had to deal with similar situations. Thanks. I highly recommend the IBD group on Yahoo: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineIBD Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > Hi. My cat Al has had a rough go of it the last 6 months. First, > pancreatitis, which necessitated a week's stay in the hospital. Then, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Rich If you feed your cat raw meats you will get rid of both IBD and diabetes. >From: c864320@yahoo.com (Liz) >If you feed your cat raw meats you will get rid of both IBD and diabetes. Really?? It's that easy?? What nutritional basis do you have for making that wild claim? It was in another thread that you chastised folks for talking about things that they weren't an expert on. Yet, here you are...doing just that! Follow Liz's advice at your own risk! circa 5 May 2004 13:57:30 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Liz (c864320@yahoo.com) said, > If you feed your cat raw meats you will get rid of both IBD and diabetes. How can you possibly make such a sweeping statement? Cripes. Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > circa 5 May 2004 13:57:30 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Liz > (c864320@yahoo.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Laura Thanks to all for the suggestions. As far as the comment about raw meat is concerned, I agree witht other posters. If raw meat was the miracle cure for ibd and diabetes, I think my vet would have suggested that dietary change a long time ago! It clearly isn't that simple. And couldn't e coli be just as dangerous to a cat as it is to humans? I find it hard to believe that the issue of food safety only concerns humans. Also, a point of clarification. In a private email, someone suggested that the hypoglycemic episode Al experienced occurred because his diabetes is no longer a problem. That is NOT the case. What happened is as follows. The vet wanted me to give Al Tylan powder mixed with canned food to try and deal with Al's diarrhea problem (had I mentioned that?). Al prefers dry food and didn't eat much of the canned food that I put out for him. Nevertheless, I continued with the insulin injections. The bottom line is that Al was receiving his normal dosage of insulin, but not eating enough. It caught up with him on a Monday evening around midnight. The episode was entirely my fault. Without insulin, Al drinks like a fish. And his blood glucose level---just tested on Monday---was quite high (he hadn't received insulin in nearly 24 hours prior to the endoscopy). I hope this clarifies the situation for the person in question. I get the results of Al's biopsy tomorrow. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's not cancer. Thanks again for your comments. Rich > > circa 5 May 2004 13:57:30 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Liz > > (c864320@yahoo.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > cure for ibd and diabetes, I think my vet would have suggested that > dietary change a long time ago! It clearly isn't that simple. Vets do not have feline nutrition in college. They know what manufacturers of commercial foods tell them. There´s an IBD group in Yahoo that you can join. From what I was told, the group has over 1000 members and *all of them* got rid of IBD with a raw diet. There are studies that show that fats or protein do not raise blood sugar level in more than 2%. Therefore, a human or a cat would never present hyperglicemia eating only proteins or fats. Meats are protein and fat. You don´t have to take my word for anything. Join that Yahoo group (I believe Cheryl has the link) and look at some studies concerning diabetes. Gaubster is too lazy to read and he does nothing but repeat what his employer tells him to say. His ignorance really gets on my nerves. > And > couldn't e coli be just as dangerous to a cat as it is to humans? I find [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Rich >From: c864320@yahoo.com (Liz) >Vets do not have feline nutrition in college. BALONEY! Liz, no matter how many times vets, techs, and others debunk this myth of yours, you continue to persist. You'll never learn anything if continue to cling to your unsubstantiated belief system. Vets deal with poor nutrition in both dogs and cats on a DAILY basis. They have continuing education as well that have nutritional components. You are simply wrong, once again. >There´s an IBD group in >Yahoo that you can join. From what I was told, the group has over 1000 >members and *all of them* got rid of IBD with a raw diet. Yeah right! LOL!! Why do you open yourself up to such ridicule by making these sweeping statements??!! >Gaubster is too lazy to read and he does nothing but repeat what his >employer tells him to say. His ignorance really gets on my nerves. Oh boy!! Liz, you are always trying to be too smart by half. You end up being the dumbest person in the room, instead. I'm not the only person to outright challenge you on the dumb thing you said. Here's what you said again: >> >>If you feed your cat raw meats you will get rid of both IBD and diabetes. The problem with you is you can't ever back up anything you say. Instead you give cruddy advice that will actually hurt if not outright, KILL somebody's cat if they were to take your dangerous advice. You just try to change the subject or impugn the person questioning you. Grow up. If Phil P saw what you posted, he would go off on you! I'm self-employed by the way, so you can drop that mantra of yours. > >From: c864320@yahoo.com (Liz) > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > education as well that have nutritional components. You are simply wrong, > once again. Why don´t you ask Phil for an article he has from some veterinary journal stating how little vets know about nutrition of small animals? > >There´s an IBD group in > >Yahoo that you can join. From what I was told, the group has over 1000 > >members and *all of them* got rid of IBD with a raw diet. > > Yeah right! LOL!! Why do you open yourself up to such ridicule by making > these sweeping statements??!! Look it up for yourself. > Oh boy!! Liz, you are always trying to be too smart by half. You end up > being the dumbest person in the room, instead. Curiously you´re the one who just about everyone has called a moron and as dense as a door. Funny you just keep going. You´re a broken record. >From: c864320@yahoo.com (Liz) >Why don´t you ask Phil for an article he has from some veterinary >journal stating how little vets know about nutrition of small animals? Again, you are being extremely selective in your references. Now you're quoting Phil P (whom you don't agree with on ANYTHING) and Steve Crane (someone else whom you don't agree with on ANYTHING)...is motherhood changing you at all? ;) Seriously, you're taking something out of context here. As has been discussed here numerous, numerous times in the past (especially from Steve Crane)...vets get more nutritional training (and no, not from pet food companies) than you think. >> >There´s an IBD group in >> >Yahoo that you can join. From what I was told, the group has over 1000 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Look it up for yourself. I don't believe you. I'm not going to waste my time on a wild goose chase. >> Oh boy!! Liz, you are always trying to be too smart by half. You end up >> being the dumbest person in the room, instead. > >Curiously you´re the one who just about everyone has called a moron >and as dense as a door. Funny you just keep going. You´re a broken >record. Yeah, the facts don't change. AND you're being selective again. I bring facts to the table that people on your side of the aisle don't want to admit. I don't give a free pass to outrageous statements such as yours. You've been called a lot of disparaging names as well. Don't forget that. It sort of comes with the territory. It's difficult to argue facts with people who treat the latest nutritional fad as a religious experience. > There are studies that show that fats or protein do not raise blood > sugar level in more than 2%. Therefore, a human or a cat would never > present hyperglicemia eating only proteins or fats. Meats are protein > and fat. If a cat has Type II diabetes (as mine apparently has), a low-carb diet can result in normal blood sugar, as it's still producing insulin of its own. But I believe the majority of diabetic cats cease to produce enough of their own insulin for a change of diet alone to be sufficient. Excess protein is converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, and can raise blood sugar in diabetics, but probably not in non-diabetics. Signaturejamie (jamiemck@newsguy.com) "There's a seeker born every minute." > > > circa 5 May 2004 13:57:30 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Liz > > > (c864320@yahoo.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Vets do not have feline nutrition in college. They know what > manufacturers of commercial foods tell them. ERROR ERROR - Like usual! To indicate that vets get no nutrition education is blatantly false and has been for many many years. Every major vet school has a course in small animal clinical nutrition, most have had it up and running for many years. Even more importantly nearly every disease they will study has a nutritional component. There are no vet students going through school learning to treat renal failure that are not exposed to the nutritional aspect of that disease. To make such a blatantly false claim begs one to consider why anyone would make such a totally false claim. The only individuals who keep making this kind of totally nonsensical claim are those that find themselves on the "outs" with veterinary medicine. At the moment that is the BARFistas who claim to cure everything under the sun with no data to support any of it and always ignore the cases of dead kitties and dead doggies directly as a result of feeding the BARFista diet. There is not a single Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Nutritionists who favors the BARFista fad. These are the poeple who have devoted thier lives to learning all they can learn about nutrition. There´s an IBD group in > Yahoo that you can join. From what I was told, the group has over 1000 > members and *all of them* got rid of IBD with a raw diet. Oh BS - every one of 1,000 cats had a _confirmed_ case of IBD and raw diet saved them huh? I'll bet you've got Dr. Goodalls Magic Elixir Cure-All for Whatever Ails Ya for sale for only the small asking price of $1.99 a bottle right? When you make such astoundingly ridiculous claims it puts everyone on notice that you are a nutcase.
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