Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / April 2007
New cat owner with obese cat
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Dom - 09 Apr 2007 16:32 GMT I adopted a cat (my first) that is 33 lbs, and I need help finding a good food for him. I got him a mate to get him moving but no success there.
He gets a 3oz can of wet food, and so does his mate, but I think he takes most of his mate's food. I also give him about a cup of dry food, and another cup for his mate, because I'm gone most of the day. Again, I think he eats his mate's food.
I always look at labels and try to find one that has high protein, some fat, some fiber and little carbs. (I know how to compute the Dry Matter Basis). Oddly, the brands that are called "weight control" don't seem to be as high in protein as some of the other brands. The best I found is Fancy Feast Medleys. Is this right?
Am I doing the right thing? Any suggestions on brands?
Thanks, Dom
cybercat - 09 Apr 2007 16:44 GMT >I adopted a cat (my first) that is 33 lbs, and I need help finding a > good food for him. I got him a mate to get him moving but no success [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Am I doing the right thing? Any suggestions on brands? Dom, our tiny female was up to 18 lbs when she came to us. (She is very small boned, so this was dangerously obese.) I fed her diet Iams dry because that is what her owner fed her. Like your cat, I free fed her, just left the bowl on the floor all day. She just got fatter.
You have the right idea about protein, and FF is what I feed, too, but any canned food that has meat, fish, poultry as a first ingredient and no or very few grains is fine. The thing is, you have to feed canned only and feed every twelve hours. If you want her to him to lose weight you will have to supervise feedings, because you have two cats. I feed my skinny cat on the third floor and my fat cat on the first floor, then try to remember to pick up what is left of the skinny cat's food before the fat cat can sneak up to get it! If I had a single floor, I would feed them in separate rooms with closed doors. If the skinny cat is like mine and does not wolf it all, you could put his up on a counter or table where the fat cat cannot jump. (Unless your cat can jump, mine couldn't when she was that fat.
My fat girl eats two 3-oz cans a day because that is how much it takes to keep her at nine pounds. (She lost 9 pounds in a year once I cut out the dry.) Your big boy might need a can and a half twice a day. My vet told me to feed canned only, and reduce it by 1/4 until the cat begins to lose weight, so you want to start out on the heavy side.
Another thing about feeding every 12 hours is, it is better for cats to wait this long between feedings. Phil P. once posted about this but I have not retained the particulars.
As you have guessed, dry food is not the best food for cats because of all the grains. In addition to the extra protein in canned, there is extra water, and cats need that to stay healthy too.
If your skinny cat will not eat all of his wet food in the morning before you leave, and you can't put it up where the other cat cannot get it, you might have a dilemma on your hands, as I surely would not separate them all day, they need each other's company! What I do when my fat cat steals Gracie's food is, I give her less in the evening and Gracie more.
Good luck! You're right to worry about your cat's weight, it can be a killer.
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Rene S. - 10 Apr 2007 15:22 GMT > > I always look at labels and try to find one that has high protein, > > some fat, some fiber and little carbs. (I know how to compute the Dry [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > table where the fat cat cannot jump. (Unless your cat can jump, mine > couldn't when she was that fat. I feed my cats in two different rooms. One is shut in an office (with a litterbox) and the other is fed in the kitchen while I get ready for work (about 20-30 minutes). In the evening, I feed them both in the kitchen, but I am there making supper so I supervise. This works out great for me.
> Another thing about feeding every 12 hours is, it is better for cats > to wait this long between feedings. Phil P. once posted about this > but I have not retained the particulars. My understanding is that this schedule is more like what cats would eat in the wild. They don't have 24 access to food in the wild; they catch prey when they find it. If you are a couple of hours late with a meal, it's not a big deal. Cats in the wild don't eat on a schedule.
cybercat - 10 Apr 2007 17:50 GMT >. If you are a couple of hours late with a > meal, it's not a big deal. Tell that to my formerly fat little Tuxedo Terrorist!
She comes to whereever I am long before it is feeding time, and stares holes into me. When I look up at her she wheels on her heel in a decidedly disgusted way and stomps off to the kitchen, stands there and waits until I appear, then turns on her heel again, cussing me in cat. Then she slaps at my feet while I open the can, slaps at my hand when I pick up her water dish to refill it, cussing all the time. I feel like I'm going to look up and see her with a little pistol in her paw one of these times.
But Rene, she is so much healthier, shiny, and fiesty than she was on the dry food.
Rene S. - 10 Apr 2007 19:49 GMT > She comes to whereever I am long before it is feeding > time, and stares holes into me. When I look up at her [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > But Rene, she is so much healthier, shiny, and fiesty than > she was on the dry food. Heh, heh, I have a cat (the one who lost the weight) who is an "opportunist," and I can't leave any food out b/c he'll try and eat it. I weigh him regularly and he's stable, so he *thinks* he's starving when he's not. (He was a stray, so perhaps that's just stuck with him.)
I agree that he is also healthier than ever on wet food.
cybercat - 11 Apr 2007 17:27 GMT > Heh, heh, I have a cat (the one who lost the weight) who is an > "opportunist," and I can't leave any food out b/c he'll try and eat > it. I weigh him regularly and he's stable, so he *thinks* he's > starving when he's not. (He was a stray, so perhaps that's just stuck > with him.) The reason my tuxedo girl is like this is that her first owner expressed his love with "goodies" and left her alone with the dry food a bit too much. (He began traveling a lot, and this is why he gave her to us.) It did not help that she was undiagnosed hyper thyroid for years--a symptom is ravenous hunger. (But she was an odd case, because instead of being thin like most hyperT cats she was fat. Only her high heartrate (over 300 bpm, so fast you can barely count it) and a thyroid blood test gave it away.
But it seems to be rather common, that one cat is obsessed with food and another is rather indifferent.
This cat has always been assertive, it is just her nature. She is a lap cat, but with an attitude. She will get comfortable, and if you move, she complains. If you don't stop, she hisses and stomps off. :) It's hilarious. Ditto to touching her tail. She adores my husband and loves to sit next to him on he couch while he watches tv, but if he touches her tail, she bitches him out, hisses, and stomps off. She also, when a kitten, went so bonkers if a cat came to the big window, she once had a case of redirected aggression and went for my husband's ankles. I was appalled but my husband and his father thought it was funny.
Another thing she did, was every time she passed a particular glazed ceramic planter, her reflection caught her eye and she slapped at it. She's just funny. :)
> I agree that he is also healthier than ever on wet food. Lynne - 11 Apr 2007 17:35 GMT on Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:27:11 GMT, "cybercat" <cyberpurrs@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Only her high heartrate > (over 300 bpm, so fast you can barely count it) and a thyroid > blood test gave it away. At what age can hyperthyroid be diagnosed? Levi has bouts of fast heartrate and the vet said he was too young to have hyperthyroidism. Does that sound right??
> But it seems to be rather common, that one cat is obsessed with > food and another is rather indifferent. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > glazed ceramic planter, her reflection caught her eye and she > slapped at it. She's just funny. :) She sounds like a very fun cat.
 Signature Lynne
cybercat - 11 Apr 2007 18:39 GMT > on Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:27:11 GMT, "cybercat" <cyberpurrs@yahoo.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > heartrate and the vet said he was too young to have hyperthyroidism. > Does that sound right?? Boo was finally diagnosed at age 8, but the vet thinks she had the disorder for a while. It is much more common in cats over age 7 or so.
Levi's heart rate would be fast all the time, not just in episodes, if my understanding of the disease is correct. A normal heart rate for an adult cat might be 150-180. When I asked my vet if Boo's 300 bpm rate might be due to the fact that being at the vet's upset her, he said, "a really high heart rate due to anxiety might be 200. 300 is off the charts."
Other symptoms are abnormal vocalizing--you're in the kitchen and you hear Levi howling upstair, or in the middle of the night when you are sleeping--and he has food, water, there's no explanation you can find--and what my vet called "hypervigilance." Boo was always hyperalert. None of that sleepy-slitty-eyed cat stuff for her, she was always wide-eyed, expectant, irritable. If you picked her up and she wanted down, she would not avert her eyes and meow and squirm, she would stiffarm you like she was trying to push her feet through your chest and eyeball you, with the nastiest expression on her face. :) Yes, she is a funny girl. Another symptom is an unkempt looking coat, with dandruff. And of course ravenous hunger.
I bet your vet would do a blood panel for you just to make sure. It's a simple enough test.
Lynne - 11 Apr 2007 18:53 GMT on Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:39:04 GMT, "cybercat" <cyberpurrs@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Boo was finally diagnosed at age 8, but the vet thinks she had the > disorder for a while. It is much more common in cats over age 7 or so. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > I bet your vet would do a blood panel for you just to make sure. It's > a simple enough test. Hell, that all sounds more like Rudy! He has started vocalizing for no apparent reason recently, every night around the same time. He's also got dandruff, no matter how much I brush him, and ravenous hunger. He's no more irritable than he's always been, when I don't do things *just* right, hehe. He's only 3 and he's FAT, but I'm going to have him checked.
Levi doesn't fit the profile at all, but does have episodes of fast heart rate (and respiration!) at rest and the vet didn't think it was anything to worry about. He discounted it as a recurring URI from FHV (which, of course, it could very well be). Both boys are going to get some bloodwork done just to be safe.
 Signature Lynne
cybercat - 11 Apr 2007 19:53 GMT > Both boys are going to get some > bloodwork done just to be safe. Good, Lynne. The biggest danger is that a hyperT cat will "throw a clot" as my vet said, which I guess means have a stroke, but could mean a pulmonary embolism, I guess.
Boo's went undiagnosed for long enough that she developed arythmia--perhaps from having such a fast heart rate for so long. This resulted in little seizure-like fainting spells, where she was unresponsive, kind of feeling around in a circle, listing to one side.
The vet put her on a beta blocker to stabilize her heart rate three years ago and as long as I keep her on them, she is fine.
Rene S. - 09 Apr 2007 18:52 GMT > I adopted a cat (my first) that is 33 lbs, and I need help finding a > good food for him. I got him a mate to get him moving but no success [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > food, and another cup for his mate, because I'm gone most of the day. > Again, I think he eats his mate's food. Hi Dom,
My suggestion would be to feed your cats separately (in another room works well), twice per day, about 12 hours apart. You need to monitor the overweight cat's intake. Secondly, I would remove the dry food from his diet and feed only canned. I personally had no luck with any of the dry "weight loss" formulas, prescription or over the counter. My cat actually gained weight on them! There's a good article about feline nutrition here: http://www.catinfo.org/
My cat lost 6 lbs a couple of years ago on canned food. Here's his web site. Feel free to email me if you have questions.
http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/
Rene
Dom - 09 Apr 2007 20:36 GMT Hi Rene:
Can you give me some advice on cat food. Reading labels, and making conversions to DMB, makes me think that Fancy Feast Medley is a good choice. But I'm concerned about that. FF seems like a commercial brand that is not intended for obese cats. Yet, according to the label, it is about the highest in protein, and lowest in carbs.
Thanks again Dom
> > I adopted a cat (my first) that is 33 lbs, and I need help finding a > > good food for him. I got him a mate to get him moving but no success [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Rene Rene S. - 09 Apr 2007 22:02 GMT > Hi Rene: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thanks again > Dom cybercat has already given you some advice. I'm not crazy about feeding FF (just my opinion, I know others here use it). I prefer the premium brands that have human-grade ingredients and no grains. Some examples are Wellness, Innova, Royal Canin, Nature's Variety--and I'm sure there are others. Most important is to read the ingredient list. Things like "meal," "by-products," and of course, grains, are not high- quality ingredients.
Joe Canuck - 09 Apr 2007 19:07 GMT > I adopted a cat (my first) that is 33 lbs, and I need help finding a > good food for him. I got him a mate to get him moving but no success [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks, > Dom You will need to adopt a fixed feeding rather than free feeding schedule.
Suggest you and the cat visit the vet.
cybercat - 09 Apr 2007 21:02 GMT Dom" <dolivastro@gmail.com> wrote:>
> Am I doing the right thing? Any suggestions on brands? Dom, our tiny female was up to 18 lbs when she came to us. (She is very small boned, so this was dangerously obese.) I fed her diet Iams dry because that is what her owner fed her. Like your cat, I free fed her, just left the bowl on the floor all day. She just got fatter.
You have the right idea about protein, and FF is what I feed, too, but any canned food that has meat, fish, poultry as a first ingredient and no or very few grains is fine. The thing is, you have to feed canned only and feed every twelve hours. If you want her to him to lose weight you will have to supervise feedings, because you have two cats. I feed my skinny cat on the third floor and my fat cat on the first floor, then try to remember to pick up what is left of the skinny cat's food before the fat cat can sneak up to get it! If I had a single floor, I would feed them in separate rooms with closed doors. If the skinny cat is like mine and does not wolf it all, you could put his up on a counter or table where the fat cat cannot jump. (Unless your cat can jump, mine couldn't when she was that fat.
My fat girl eats two 3-oz cans a day because that is how much it takes to keep her at nine pounds. (She lost 9 pounds in a year once I cut out the dry.) Your big boy might need a can and a half twice a day. My vet told me to feed canned only, and reduce it by 1/4 until the cat begins to lose weight, so you want to start out on the heavy side.
Another thing about feeding every 12 hours is, it is better for cats to wait this long between feedings. Phil P. once posted about this but I have not retained the particulars.
As you have guessed, dry food is not the best food for cats because of all the grains. In addition to the extra protein in canned, there is extra water, and cats need that to stay healthy too.
If your skinny cat will not eat all of his wet food in the morning before you leave, and you can't put it up where the other cat cannot get it, you might have a dilemma on your hands, as I surely would not separate them all day, they need each other's company! What I do when my fat cat steals Gracie's food is, I give her less in the evening and Gracie more.
Good luck! You're right to worry about your cat's weight, it can be a killer.
Dom - 09 Apr 2007 21:57 GMT This is great, cybercat. Just what I needed.
Dom
> Dom" <dolivas...@gmail.com> wrote:> > > Am I doing the right thing? Any suggestions on brands? [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Good luck! You're right to worry about your cat's weight, it can be a > killer. cybercat - 09 Apr 2007 23:09 GMT > This is great, cybercat. Just what I needed. > > Dom Good luck! Choose varieties of Fancy Feast that have beef, chicken, liver, etc. as a first ingredient. Some have "meat byproducts" as a first ingredient, and even though I know I am being silly given what cats eat when they eat prey, I like giving mine regular meat as a first ingredient. Fancy Feast has improved in nutrition a great deal since Purina bought the company a few years ago. As for "human grade" ingredients, as Rene prefers, I guess that is what is meant by non -by-product meats. Wellness etc., at twice the price as FF, includes items such as blueberries which cats do NOT need. In addition, there are some varieties of Wellness that contain garlic which has proven to cause anemia in cats. FF is about the best you can do for 50 a can, IME.
Joe Canuck - 09 Apr 2007 23:24 GMT >> This is great, cybercat. Just what I needed. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > liver, etc. as a first ingredient. Some have "meat byproducts" as a first > ingredient, The problem with the "first ingredient" approach is that often ingredients lower in the list can be combined to be greater in overall volume than the first ingredient listed.
As example: The first ingredient is listed as chicken meat. The 2nd and 3rd ingredients are listed as "meat byproducts", but when those 2nd and 3rd ingredients are combined they overtake the first ingredient in terms of volume.
> and even though I know I am being silly given what cats > eat when they eat prey, I like giving mine regular meat as a first [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > to cause anemia in cats. FF is about the best you can do for 50 > a can, IME. cybercat - 10 Apr 2007 00:05 GMT >> Good luck! Choose varieties of Fancy Feast that have beef, chicken, >> liver, etc. as a first ingredient. Some have "meat byproducts" as a first [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > 3rd ingredients are combined they overtake the first ingredient in terms > of volume. I can see this. I am not at all convinced that meat byproducts are bad for cats, though.
Cheryl - 11 Apr 2007 03:13 GMT >> As example: The first ingredient is listed as chicken meat. The >> 2nd and 3rd ingredients are listed as "meat byproducts", but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I can see this. I am not at all convinced that meat byproducts > are bad for cats, though. My opinion after reading about the subject is that by-products are not bad. The trouble is in identifying what species the by-product came from. Meat by-product could be from any animal that isn't fowl or fish. That leaves quite a few animals. Chicken by-products will be from chicken, beef by-products will be from cows, fish byproduct will be from fish. Etc. There are horror stories that "meat byproducts" may come from euthanized pets. Don't know the credibility behind that claim, but if you see "poultry byproducts" or better yet "chicken byproducts" the ingredient comes from poultry/chicken.
Ingredient listing of "meal" just means the liquid content was removed before it was made into pet food. Concentrated. But it could include fat, bone, and other pieces that add to phosphorus content. Meal can be either meat or veggie. Read the nutrient value in addition to what the food is made of.
 Signature Cheryl
Joe Canuck - 11 Apr 2007 03:25 GMT >>> As example: The first ingredient is listed as chicken meat. The >>> 2nd and 3rd ingredients are listed as "meat byproducts", but [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > content. Meal can be either meat or veggie. Read the nutrient > value in addition to what the food is made of. Given the current pet food disaster... I'm less willing to give the pet food companies the benefit of the doubt when it comes to ingredients.
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