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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / March 2007Getting a New Bengal Kitten - Advice, please? :)
Good morning, everbody! I have been on a quest to find a new Bengal kitten to "entertain" my resident 4 year old [spayed] Bengal girl and I have a male silver spotted Bengal coming my way on March 13th. The breeder is very sweet and she seems to take VERY good care of her cats (she lives 12 hours away so I can't visit), and isn't releasing him to me until he is 13 weeks old. (I got my girl, Tina, 4 years ago when she was 9 or 10 weeks, though..) Anyway, Tina doesn't like to be held, although she is very affectionate and likes attention. When I was handling her as a kitten, I would always put her down when she started to squirm so that she wouldn't think I was a mean monster. I realize that her squirmyness is probably her personality, but since I have a "clean slate" arriving in a couple weeks, I wanted to get some advice from the experts! Should I continue to hold him, even if he squirms, to get him used to the idea? Is there anything "special" I can do to help him embrace a cuddly side (to the extent that his Bengal personality will allow)? The breeder says that he likes to be held and that he's very cuddly, but I doubt she'd tell me if this wasn't the case. ;) Any advice would be appreciated!!!!!!!! Leslie > Good morning, everbody! I have been on a quest to find a new Bengal > kitten to "entertain" my resident 4 year old [spayed] Bengal girl and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Any advice would be appreciated!!!!!!!! Don't buy from breeders when there are lovely affectionate cats dying all over the place in huge numbers for lack of homes. > <LeslieMcFarl...@gmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I want you to know that the breeder that you have been talking to has nothing more on his or her mind than telling you exactly what they think that you want to hear.... & how do I know this...? I am a recent ex breeder..! It shames me to know that every single year, hundreds of thousands of cats die each year to make space for these branded cats. I used to breed both Ragdolls & Birmans, & I still love them dearly... however, there is the wider issue which is, there are people out there that wouldn't consider having a shelter kitty. I understand your reasons for wanting another Bengal, but by nature, Bengals are not cuddly cats, rather they are hunters & lithe cats that prefer not to be cuddled, & if they do, it is only ever on their terms... If I were to ask you to also take on a shelter kitty @ the same time as your new addition, it might help with the bonding process. The kitten learns from the mother, but if there is no mother present, they will learnt from litter mates, of other cats around them. I think that it would solve the wider problem here, which is wanting your kitties to learn to be better lap cats. Your answer is to also introduce a Moggie here, then they will emulate the shelter kitty & learn how to love you from shelter kitty & be the lap cat you are looking for. I hope that you don't see this as a reprimand, rather as a bit of advice from a breeder. Best of Luck & let us know how it goes,ok? S;o) > > Any advice would be appreciated!!!!!!!! > > Don't buy from breeders when there are lovely affectionate cats dying all > over the place in huge numbers for lack of homes. Ditto what cybercat said. Buying an animal is ridiculous when thousands are killed daily for lack of homes. (God I hate breeders...and the people who support them...) -L. > Ditto what cybercat said. Buying an animal is ridiculous when > thousands are killed daily for lack of homes. (God I hate > breeders...and the people who support them...) Breeders in general are not the problem. GOOD breeders who breed very selectively in order to protect the breed standard, who require that all kittens are spayed or neutered, and who take responsibility for the entire life of those kittens are NOT the problem. People who buy from these GOOD breeders are NOT the problem. Kitten mills and backyard breeders ARE the problem, and people who buy from them ARE the problem. People who fail to spay or neuter their cats, like our very own resident dumbass Barry, are an even larger part of the problem. And certainly people who abandon their cats are a major part of the problem. Yes there are a mind numbingly large number of cats in shelters, but that doesn't mean that someone who wants a well bred, pure bred cat is to blame. In fact, one has nothing to do with the other.  SignatureLynne > > Ditto what cybercat said. Buying an animal is ridiculous when > > thousands are killed daily for lack of homes. (God I hate [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > -- > Lynne > Quote: Who says Usenet can't change minds? :) > After a few months of listening to other peoples point of view, & some > of the stories that I have heard on here, I have taken the decision > not to breed our Birmans or Ragdolls If you ever doubt you made the right decision, click on the link below. *************WARNING EXPLICIT IMAGE TO SHARE******************* -- Don't breed or buy while shelter cats die. http://maxshouse.com/heartache.JPG I agree with both of you;both L & Lynne too. However, there are kitten farms out there, & some breeders do tell you what they think that you want to hear..... It is disgusting, but true..... I had already decided that I was going to give up breeding, & the link gave you my final reason for giving up. That image will stay @ the fore of my brain, till the day that I die. The worst thing, is that it doesn't matter what you offer to someone who has decided that they want a pedigree cat, because their mind is already made up. No amount of talking to them, will stop them from having that *special Kitty* either. The best that you can do, is to suggest that sometimes it is also an option of finding room in your hearts to add another dimension & person to be a slave to.ie: a shelter kitty that will love her to bits & show the pedigree's how it's all done.... I find that this does work & bares good fruit for both slave & slave drivers too. Both pet cat & owner win; an all win situation. Another point that we haven't covered here, is that even pedigree's need saving sometimes too. They need exactly the same safe homes that we all would prefer our shelter cats to have good homes. Here is one of them below... http://www.ukrcc.co.uk/rehome.shtml I wish that we could all take in just one cat & make the world a better place. I have 7 of them currently, & 2 of them are really huffy, puffy, alley cats, & we love them dearly. I have done what I felt was best for my breeding program, & abandoned it. It is only a very small gesture, but it will allow another 12ish kittens a chance from somewhere else. But as I said earlier.. If someone wants am pedigree cat, then there is no talking them out of it, only a single chance to appeal for what is best for the kittens & also a possible shelter role model kitty... S;o) > > Ditto what cybercat said. Buying an animal is ridiculous when > > thousands are killed daily for lack of homes. (God I hate [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > life of those kittens are NOT the problem. People who buy from these GOOD > breeders are NOT the problem. They are all the problem. Every kitten prioduced is one more kitten killed. There are only X number of homes for x number of animals. ANY breeding is bad breeding. If purebreeds weren't available people would be forced to take the moggies. -L. > They are all the problem. Every kitten prioduced is one more kitten > killed. There are only X number of homes for x number of animals. ANY > breeding is bad breeding. If purebreeds weren't available people > would be forced to take the moggies. Ah, well, you and I disagree on this point. I feel very strongly that the pure breeds need to be protected. That is only going to be done properly by ethical breeders. These breeders, BTW, generally only have a couple of litters per year (whereas BYB and Mills pump them out at insane rates, with no health testing, and they will never stop). I don't purchase purebred cats--my 2 are both from feral colonies--but I'd hate to see the well bred purebreeds disappear. I also do not agree that these selective breeders are contributing to the problem since their kittens are under spay/neuter contracts. Would you have those people seeking purebred kittens go instead to the BYBs or Mills (via pet shops)? If that happens, there will be MORE unwanted kittens, because these people who want purebreed kittens will get them. If they are not under spay/neuter contracts, they will probably become BYBs for at least one litter... and for all the typical dumbass reasons, including accidental pairings. Without ethical breeders who educate the people who purchase their kittens, I just see the problem getting worse. SignatureLynne > Without ethical breeders who educate the people who purchase their > kittens, I just see the problem getting worse. of f.ck, now we got you setting as... get this.. A JUDGE A PALM-READER A DUMMY ON MY LET (VINTRILIQUIST) A HYPOCRITE (GO AHEAD, ASK ME I DARE YA) WHAT ELSE YOU GOT FOR US LYNNE Is there anything good for me? > Ah, well, you and I disagree on this point. I feel very strongly that > the pure breeds need to be protected. I'm curious as to why you think that, Lynne. Personally, I would be happy if they all were moggies, just like us humans. There would still be different colors and variety. I would love to see the genes diluted enough so that cats are healthier. Humans made and planned each domestic breed, I think that was high-handed and arrogant of us to do to another species. We have designed breeds to our own liking. Drives me crazy with dogs, too. We've designed bull-dogs with faces squished so much that the dogs can hardly breathe. Now I'd better back away from the computer... Rhonda >> Ah, well, you and I disagree on this point. I feel very strongly that >> the pure breeds need to be protected. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Now I'd better back away from the computer... Oh no you hadn't. Very nicely put, and you stayed calm, rational, and mature while you said it. Excellent. I agree with this poast. :D Gosh.... This is a tricky one... > >> Ah, well, you and I disagree on this point. I feel very strongly that > >> the pure breeds need to be protected. I understand what you mean Lynne, & having bred cats myself, I can see your view point. You made a very valid point here Lynne It would be wrong of me to say that some breeds are ok, but others are not, so I won't. But It is clear for all to see that some breeds have been too over bred. For instance, take the Persian cat,.. it has the same breathing problems that a Bull dog has, but you can't single that breed out & say, "OK, we have over bred the Persian, so no one can breed them anymore", because it would simply go underground, rather like the American Pit bull terrier, in the UK has. Having said that, because of over breeding, all Persians and variants are now all prone to PKD, & breathing problems, not to mention their coats, & the care that is required to keep it from simply matting. This in my view has gone too far, to the detriment of the breed & the cats, because they are incapable of caring for their coats alone.. This is our doing, & it is wrong. (In my view alone) > > I'm curious as to why you think that, Lynne. > > > Personally, I would be happy if they all were moggies, just like us > > humans. There would still be different colors and variety. I would love to > > see the genes diluted enough so that cats are healthier. I love all manner of cats, & particularly Moggies...But I own some pedigree cats too, & wouldn't swap them for the world or say that I am sorry for owning one.....because it would be a lie!! With regard to breeding out of the pedigrees & into Moggies... But wouldn't this bring us back to breeding again? And, would it be a good thing to out breed the problems that we have made for the cats to cope with? (ie: PKD & matting coats)? This is just a thought btw! > > Humans made and planned each domestic breed, I think that was high-handed > > and arrogant of us to do to another species. We have designed breeds to > > our own liking. Precisely... I couldn't have put it better myself... I think it was more than arrogant of us as a species to mess around with another just for the pleasure of looking @ them & liking them... > > Drives me crazy with dogs, too. We've designed bull-dogs with faces > > squished so much that the dogs can hardly breathe. I have no dogs, so I really can not comment on this. > > Now I'd better back away from the computer... I feel very nervous about posting this, but we all have opinions, & it is up to us to debate them without the need to fall out over it... > Oh no you hadn't. Very nicely put, and you stayed calm, rational, > and mature while you said it. Excellent. > > I agree with this poast. :D- Hide quoted text - I think that you expressed yourself very well too, in a calm & collected manner, & with the gumption to express your true feelings about it without raised hackles and bad feeling. Excellent! To go back to the posters questions, which was Advice Please? I feel that I was too rushed in my last posting to answer her question properly. Never buy a kitten from someone that hasn't come personally recommended buy another purchaser, who is pleased with their kitten. Always ask to see their breeding licence. Never part with your money (or even a deposit!!) until you have visited the cattery, seen the kitten & you are happy with the kittens surroundings & the breeder too, @ least several times.... Always ask to see both parents, & never choose a breeder that does not come recommended by the regulating body of that breed. (ie: over in the UK, that would be the Gccf & also the Bengal breeders society, where everyone knows one another, & there are penalties for those who do not adhere to the rules of breeding). Furthermore, any breeder who is worth her salt(or his), would be more than interested in knowing where their precious kitten is going to after they leave mummy. I "never" let one of mine go without home visiting.. you can pick up a lot of information, even if you are expected..... A breeder who only allows their queen to have that one litter a year, will not allow that kitten to go until they are satisfied that you are good enough for their kitten. I would never have parted with one of my baby's without seeing where they would be living, & who with too. And finally, If you must have a kitten of a particular breed, do your homework first, Please....? IF, all of the above all check out, then you are talking to a breeder who cares about her kittens. And if that is the case, you will know whether that breeder is good enough to sell you a kitten, & if they care about their kitten, you will know, Instantly....!!!!!!!!!!! I hope that you do choose the right breeder, because the entire life of your kitten is pretty well mapped out by the breeder that allowed that kitten life. So look for someone who is good enough to breed your kitten. Good Luck S;o) > I'm curious as to why you think that, Lynne. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Now I'd better back away from the computer... I am a pragmatic person. Purebreeds exist and have for a very long time. Debating the morality of that is pointless. The sad reality is that kitten mills are not going away. Nor are backyard breeders or families who think their precious pet absolutely must be bred. *gag* The desire for "purebreeds" is also not going away, like it or not. I feel that the only way to truly protect the breed standards that already exist and that will continue to be in demand is through very careful breeding by ethical breeders who educate the public about responsible pet ownership and who take responsibility for the kittens they produce for the life of those animals. Each kitten purchased from an ethical breeder is one less that supports mills and BYBs, and one less that will go on to breed. As to the health issues you mention, unless breeding stock is extensively health tested--and only the most responsible breeders do this because it's EXPENSIVE (and good breeders aren't in it to make money)--there are NO guarantees that 'moggies' are going to be healthier than well bred purebreeds. With domestic cats, good vet care levels the playing field and the resulting survival rates between the fittest and sickly, so both groups procreate and propagate their genes, good and bad. It's a crapshoot, healthwise. Plenty of moggies have heart defects and other congenital and inherited health problems. We read about them frequently on this ng. Unless cat shows and cat magazines and books, etc. are eliminated (fat chance), pure breeds will continue to be desireable as pets. So I am voicing my support for ETHICAL, responsible breeders who protect the breed standards and who, IMO, do not in any way contribute to the over population problem. I do believe if such breeders were to stop breeding, the problems would get worse, for reasons I've already stated in this thread. Good breeders and the people who patronize them are not part of this enormous overpopulation problem. I'm not sure if I can explain it any better than I have already tried. Some people insist on lumping BYBs, Mills and good breeders into the same evil category, and I think it's short sighted to do that. That said, I'd personally rather have a moggie any day (and I have two). I also detest breeders who are in it for money. They make me physically ill. SignatureLynne > Now I'd better back away from the computer... I find it very interesting learning how different breeds developed. I don't know squat about cats, but a little about doggie breeds. In most cases I've read, the breed was developed for a specific purpose. It's easy to see how cat population is what it is... For the life of me, I don't know why we need to house cats at shelters. OF COURSE they deserve the love they deserve, everyone is worthy of the best... no question.. but it's not working. That's my only contention, it's not working. Educating the public could help, but still wouldn't solve the current problem, not for some time. I want to start a thread about guilt. I don't know how to say what I am feeling. Think about how many people grab up a pet out of sheer.. "poor poor thing" but they don't know the real cost involved, not just money, but the lifetime committment part. These type of people are part of the big problem Is there anyone in this group who doles out guilt? YOU BET It's a human problem. It has it's root in weakness, not nobility. I'm going to back away from the computer now. Barry > OF COURSE they deserve the love they deserve, everyone is worthy of > the best... no question.. but it's not working. That's my only > contention, it's not working. Gracie says it is. > Gracie says it is. I stand corrected >> Gracie says it is. > > I stand corrected You wanna swat me like a bug don't you? :D >>> Gracie says it is. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > :D Heck no Cyber You make an excellent point. >> They are all the problem. Every kitten prioduced is one more kitten >> killed. There are only X number of homes for x number of animals. ANY [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Ah, well, you and I disagree on this point. I feel very strongly that > the pure breeds need to be protected. I really don't think there is any danger of breeding being outlawed. The greater danger is to the millions of normal cats who will die for lack of homes. > I really don't think there is any danger of breeding being outlawed. I don't see why the effin' mills are allowed to continue, though... $%#@!! SignatureLynne > Ditto what cybercat said. Buying an animal is ridiculous when > thousands are killed daily for lack of homes. (God I hate > breeders...and the people who support them...) You're ignorant > Ditto what cybercat said. Buying an animal is ridiculous when > thousands are killed daily for lack of homes. (God I hate > breeders...and the people who support them...) You are ignorant to hate someone who does something out of ignorance. For example, I don't hate you -L. for hating people who breed cats. You make a vile comment about a human... one who far as they know, have done nothing wrong; you just hate them. I do hate your hate, but no you. I may hate what someone has done, (support a breeder)... but I am never entitled to hate that person. You have stooped to an all time low. > > > Any advice would be appreciated!!!!!!!! > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -L. It's not responsible breeders who are at fault for the many thousands of abandoned, homeless, and abused animals in shelters; it's the people who abandoned them, or didn't spay/neuter their pets and then couldn't cope with the litter that resulted, etc. It's the kitten and puppy mills, the backyard breeders, the pet stores for whom dogs and cats are just so much merchandise to be moved. I've had wonderful pets from shelters, and I've had wonderful pets from breeders. I've even had two wonderful cats from another client of my vet at the time--mama cat was so tiny that they wanted to put off spaying until she was a little larger, and in the interim she went into heat, slipped out the door, and got pregnant. (I took two of the kittens.) And each was the right choice for me at the time--a different cat or dog would not have been the right choice at that time. And in the cases where I got a cat or dog from a breeder, the breeder has been available, even years later, to answer questions and help solve problems. I wouldn't for the world have missed out on any of the wonderful cats I've had from shelters, but that doesn't mean that's the only right place to find a cat. (And having said all that, yes, I do wonder if Leslie might, in this case, be better off going to a shelter, and finding a shelter kitty who'll be grateful for a warm, dry home.) Lis > (And having said all that, yes, I do wonder if Leslie might, in this > case, be better off going to a shelter, and finding a shelter kitty > who'll be grateful for a warm, dry home.) > > Lis Good point. > Good point. Sorta So she gets a shelter cat, and some lamo gets the pet store cat... Which cat needs a responsible adult? So it really is as long as it is wide Can't we just close the kitten factory? Make a law? Then all you (if your female) .. all you caring women can focus your energy on other things that interest you. Barry That's not a slam... It is a crime that we cannot nip this whole thing in the bud. > > Good point. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > That's not a slam... It is a crime that we cannot nip this whole thing > in the bud. I'd love to see the kitten mills and puppy mills closed; so would most other people who are aware of them. Unfortunately, so far no one's managed to write a law that closes the mills without creating large burdens for responsible breeders who breed, at most, 1-3 litters a year, are careful about genetics and about proper socialization, are careful who they place those kittens or puppies with, and maintain a lifetime commitment to those puppies or kittens, after they're placed. These people aren't in it for the money; they're at best breaking even on something they do because they love their breed. As hard as some people here find it to accept the fact, these people are NOT the problem. But the principal outlet for the mills, pet stores, could be banned from selling animals. And a good push for that could probably get the support of some of the major pet supply store chains--PetCo and PetSmart already don't sell dogs and cats, and actively support rescue/ adoption. That wouldn't cut off newspaper ads and internet sales, but the pet stores are where they make the volume sales, and losing that outlet would have to hurt. Lis > > > Good point. > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Lis- One of the reasons that I gave up breeding was because I couldn't compete with kitten mills as you call them.(we call them kitten farms). The expense of inoculating the kittens, vet checking them, & caring for your cats in general does not come in to play with kitten farms. They don't check their queens regularly with bloods & full health checks, nor their stud cats either. It is not a concern to them because once that kitten hits 10ish weeks, it is off out that door, never to be thought about again. I have spent untold amounts of money making sure that mine do get that care, but in the end, it is up to the purchaser to choose the breeder. I have advertised in appropriate places, but @ the end of the day, it is the client that chooses the breeder. We have to rely on our good names within the breeding world, & also on people who have seen our kittens & admired their appearance, sweet natures & good health. The kitten itself, speaks volumes about the breeder People buying a pedigree kitten for the first time, don't know any better. All they can see is the price, & they seem to go for the cheaper end of the market... & that would be the kitten farms, with whom I was trying to compete, & I simply couldn't! I think it is education that we need rather than laws. I am not saying that I don't agree with outlawing the practice, I am saying that if you do, it will simply go underground. Some people truely think that laws are made to be broken.... If people really knew how kitten farms were run, the would run themselves, in the opposite direction. So we should educate people on the dangers of buying from kitten farms.(rather like we have done with smoking over the last few years). If you educate people to know better, then they have the choice of choosing the right kitten. all of the advice that I have seen so far makes good sense, & by far the most moving story I have heard is that of Gail's cats. It is a typical history presented to vets all the time. I realise that the pedigree kitten that you might want costs that little bit more... but if you are intent, & not to be dissuaded, Pay that little bit extra for the kitten you want, knowing that it has had all of the tests that you would expect to be done. And NEVER be frightened to ask to see the paperwork involved. Any breeder who is genuine, won't mind showing you vaccine certificates, vet bills associated. In fact, please don't take what is said @ face value...Check for yourself. Never buy a kitten from someone that hasn't come personally recommended buy another purchaser, who is pleased with their kitten. Always ask to see their breeding licence. Never part with your money (or even a deposit!!) until you have visited the cattery, seen the kitten & you are happy with the kittens surroundings & the breeder too, @ least several times.... Always ask to see both parents, & never choose a breeder that does not come recommended by the regulating body of that breed. (ie: over in the UK, that would be the Gccf & also the Bengal breeders society, where everyone knows one another, & there are penalties for those who do not adhere to the rules of breeding). Furthermore, any breeder who is worth her salt(or his), would be more than interested in knowing where their precious kitten is going to after they leave mummy. I "never" let one of mine go without home visiting.. you can pick up a lot of information, even if you are expected..... A breeder who only allows their queen to have that one litter a year, will not allow that kitten to go until they are satisfied that you are good enough for their kitten. I would never have parted with one of my baby's without seeing where they would be living, & who with too. And finally, If you must have a kitten of a particular breed, do your homework first, Please....? IF, all of the above all check out, then you are talking to a breeder who cares about her kittens. And if that is the case, you will know whether that breeder is good enough to sell you a kitten. If they care about their kitten, you will know, Instantly....!!!!!!!!!!! S;o) > > > > Good point. > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > because once that kitten hits 10ish weeks, it is off out that door, > never to be thought about again. Sadly, I think 10 weeks is optimistic. The most marketable period for both kittens and puppies is 8-12 weeks; they want them in the pet stores by then. They're being taken from their mothers at 6 weeks, or younger. > I have spent untold amounts of money making sure that mine do get that > care, but in the end, it is up to the purchaser to choose the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > natures & good health. > The kitten itself, speaks volumes about the breeder People think, "I don't want a show cat (or dog); I just want a pet." They don't understand that one of the principle benefits of showing animals is that they get seen, and handled, by people other than the breeder. Other breeders on the show circuit know who has a good breeding program, who takes care of their animals and socializes the young ones properly. As much as anything else, social pressure reminds people which corners they really can't cut. If you want a purebred pet, go to some shows, talk to people, and don't waste your time with any breeder that no one on the show circuit knows. > People buying a pedigree kitten for the first time, don't know any > better. All they can see is the price, & they seem to go for the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > If you educate people to know better, then they have the choice of > choosing the right kitten. Education's important, and the only real long-term solution, but I think that cutting off the pet store market--not outlawing the mills/ farms, but cutting off their biggest-volume, most profitable market-- would hurt those farms, and reduce the ease with which people can make an impulse purchase that's bad for them and the animal. If they have to look around to find out where to get a kitten, they're more likely to encounter some of the educational information along the way. > all of the advice that I have seen so far makes good sense, & by far > the most moving story I have heard is that of Gail's cats. It is a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > In fact, please don't take what is said @ face value...Check for > yourself. With some breeds, this means also asking about what health tests have been done on the parents. Maine Coons, to pick an example near and dear to my heart, have a tendency towards heart trouble. ALWAYS ask about the parents' history, and the grandparents'. Know your breed, find out what health problems to ask about, find out what kind of paperwork a responsible breeder should be able to show you. > Never buy a kitten from someone that hasn't come personally > recommended buy another purchaser, who is pleased with their kitten. I think recs from other breeders are even more important. People can be awful suckers for the pet they love. > Always ask to see their breeding licence. Not really applicable in the US. There's USDA certification, but it can actually be a bad sign. The commercial breeders (mills/farms) are more likely to go to the trouble of getting it, and while it does establish that the facilities are clean and the animals adequately fed, the USDA inspectors are much more geared towards farm livestock (cattle, sheep, pigs, etc.) than cats and dogs. It's no assurance of breeding standards, socialization, or of the kittens or puppies being allowed to stay with mom long enough. > Never part with your money (or even a deposit!!) until you have > visited the cattery, seen the kitten & you are happy with the kittens > surroundings & the breeder too, @ least several times.... Yes. > Always ask to see both parents, Always ask, but remember it's a trick question. Mom should be on-site, but it's relatively uncommon that a breeder will own the best possible tom for their queen. It can happen, for sure, but you should ask about it, and the breeder better have a better answer than "They're both such wonderful animals..." There should be a plan involved that the breeder, being a hopeless enthusiast for the breed, will be _eager_ to talk about, at greater length than you really want to listen. Otherwise, you're most likely talking to a backyard breeder, who thinks breeding their purebred pets is a fun, easy way to make money. >& never choose a breeder that does > not [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I would never have parted with one of my baby's without seeing where > they would be living, & who with too. I think home visits are less common in the US, possibly because distances are greater, but every responsible breeder wants to meet, and talk extensively with, the people who are asking for their kittens. They'll ask detailed questions about previous pet-owning experience, ask for references, etc. This is where those friends who've bought a kitten from the same breeder really come in handy, or can: she knows them, and knows whether or not she ever heard from them again after parting with that earlier kitten. If she's been pleased with them as responsible owners of one of her precious babies, their word will help you get a kitten. > And finally, If you must have a kitten of a particular breed, do your > homework first, Please....? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If they care about their kitten, you > will know, Instantly....!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, yes, yes! Is this all a lot of work? Yes, it is. But you'll be happier with your pet if you do it. Lis > > > I'd love to see the kitten mills and puppy mills closed; so would most > > > other people who are aware of them. Unfortunately, so far no one's [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > stores by then. They're being taken from their mothers at 6 weeks, or > younger. I agree with you. That is dreadful & horrendous to hear too... What I *didn't read in to your post*, was that you have pet stores that sell kittens in store...? That is now unheard of over here, thankfully... Most kitten farms over here, do tend to wait until @ least 8weeks, before advertising in the lower end of the market, lower read new papers & in store at pet shops as private advertising as well as on the net. I am going to give you a link for one of the sites over here where it is free to advertise, & it won't take you too long to see who is a genuine breeder, & who is knocking out kittens for profit. I also think that you will be amazed at the price that people charge for kittens in general( meaning moggies). http://www.classifieds.co.uk/for-sale/pets_-_cats_-slash-_kittens/scat/489.asp The Pet stores allow them to advertise, as long as they make a contribution which could be as little as a quarter in your money, because it is voluntary here. > > I have spent untold amounts of money making sure that mine do get that > > care, but in the end, it is up to the purchaser to choose the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > young ones properly. As much as anything else, social pressure reminds > people which corners they really can't cut. I agree with this one too!! Nothing can make up for socializing a kitten, than being handled gently on a daily basis, & cuddled and loved. It is sooo important, because the breeder is responsible for ensuring that the kitten that they are selling to you is @ ease to be handled, not frightened of humans, & associate humans with love and comfort. You only get 12 short weeks to ensure that your kitten is shaped for the rest of it's life, so it is VERY IMPORTANT to the kitten & it's new slaves too. > If you want a purebred pet, go to some shows, talk to people, and > don't waste your time with any breeder that no one on the show circuit > knows. Definitely.. you get to meet all the better breeders & also the chance to have conversations at length with them. If the breeder doesn't make you feel that they have time to talk about anything that you wish to know, then you must ask yourself why that would be. Most of them are only too pleased to because we are talking about their livelihood here. They want you to know that they are there for you. > > People buying a pedigree kitten for the first time, don't know any > > better. All they can see is the price, & they seem to go for the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > would hurt those farms, and reduce the ease with which people can make > an impulse purchase that's bad for them and the animal. Correct! > If they have to look around to find out where to get a kitten, they're > more likely to encounter some of the educational information along the > way. I used to advertise my kittens around a week after they were born. I felt that this gave me the opportunity to get to know the new family, & the other way around too. In fact, I am still in contact with 98% of those families still. I actively encouraged people to call me day or night if they were worried about their kitten/cat.. Any breeder who cares about their kitten would do the same too. > > all of the advice that I have seen so far makes good sense, & by far > > the most moving story I have heard is that of Gail's cats. It is a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > find out what health problems to ask about, find out what kind of > paperwork a responsible breeder should be able to show you. I agree with this one as well. If you like the look of a cat, then if you really are determined to have one, all you need to do , is plan ahead. Kitten season is nearly upon us. Go to a show, look for breeders in a reputable place ( over here, in the UK, I would advise you would look @ a breeders Magazine, such as CAT WORLD), where breeders talk to each other & they advertise up coming shows so that you can have a look at the competition... > > Never buy a kitten from someone that hasn't come personally > > recommended buy another purchaser, who is pleased with their kitten. > > I think recs from other breeders are even more important. People can > be awful suckers for the pet they love. True, but I would say that moist people do tend to notice if all is not well with their kitte/cat, & they have had to spend a fortune @ the vets regarding ill health. Also , actions speak as loud as words when it comes to someone slating a breeder if they have a bad experience with one... > > Always ask to see their breeding licence. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > breeding standards, socialization, or of the kittens or puppies being > allowed to stay with mom long enough. How about the Cat fancy people. Would they keep a record of peoples actions if they are affiliated with them? Here it is the Gccf, & if anyone complains about a breeder, it is kept on record for all to enquire if they wish to... > > Never part with your money (or even a deposit!!) until you have > > visited the cattery, seen the kitten & you are happy with the kittens [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Otherwise, you're most likely talking to a backyard breeder, who > thinks breeding their purebred pets is a fun, easy way to make money. I suppose I was thinking of myself here, because I owned both queen & stud too, so I expected to be asked to see both parents..& If I wasn't, I brought the subject up for them... > >& never choose a breeder that does > > not [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Lis- Last of all, I wonder if Lesley took our advice, or went for the kitten anyway? If she did, I would bet a pound for a dolllar that it was because of the right price...What do you think? S;o) <snip practically everything> > Last of all, I wonder if Lesley took our advice, or went for the > kitten anyway? > If she did, I would bet a pound for a dolllar that it was because of > the right price...What do you think? > S;o) I posted a much longer reply to you last night, but it seems to have vanished into the ether. Just goes to show, what I type here is worth the electrons it's printed with.:) Since I was mostly just agreeing with you, it's probably not that important anyway. I think we're probably giving Lesley our advice too late. If she's already put down a deposit on the kitten, it becomes much harder, both emotionally and financially, to back out of the deal. Lis > <snip practically everything> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the electrons it's printed with.:) Since I was mostly just agreeing > with you, it's probably not that important anyway. I have that problem too. I think that the reason this happens is because after a certain length of time, it just rejects any post that you make;o( IF I think that there is a possibility that it might happen to me, I tend to run hotmail or word as well, then copy and paste the whole post just in case.. then if it doesn't appear on screen, you don't have to do the whole thing over &it is not quite such a big disaster.... Just give the use net time to see if it appears, & if it doesn't, all you have to do is go back to copy & paste & transfer it back to the place where you intended to post it. I don't type very fast, so it can be a problem for me quite often... & has saved my backside & temper quite a few time;o) > I think we're probably giving Lesley our advice too late. If she's > already put down a deposit on the kitten, it becomes much harder, both > emotionally and financially, to back out of the deal. > Lis I have a feeling that you hit the nail right on the head. It is such a shame that she didn't come to the group when she was thinking about the idea, rather than checking with us half way through the check out. I hope for her sake that she has found a breeder who is worth half the salt she claims to be, & that she she doesn't encounter any of the problems that we discussed. We all make mistakes, but this sort of mistake can cost you not just in monetary terms.. it can hurt the heart too. I very much hope that we didn't frighten her off, because when I posted, it wasn't to question her intelligence, it was to save her the heartache that comes with choosing a kitten farm. I know so many people that used to come to me, who would openly tell me that they had already been to see a kitten, perhaps £50 cheaper.. ( I guess in an attempt to ask me if I would drop the price.. but I couldn't, because I was only breaking even @ £300). All I was able to do was to advise them as to *why* their prices were cheaper than mine. The ones that came back to me were worth considering for adoptive parents for the kittens, & the ones that tried haggling were no loss at all!! As I said, I still stay in touch with 98% of them, & It really is wonderful to receive letters & photos of them, all of 5 years later. I know that they are well loved and cared for, but most of all, it is brilliant to know that I chose the right parents;o) At the time, it was soo important to me that I would have kept the kittens rather than let them go to a suspect parents... An unthinkable thought when you consider it.. <shudder!!> Nice to meet you too BTW S;o) > > <snip practically everything> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > have to do the whole thing over &it is not quite such a big > disaster.... I'll remember this, thanks. > Just give the use net time to see if it appears, & if it doesn't, all > you have to do is go back to copy & paste & transfer it back to the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > posted, it wasn't to question her intelligence, it was to save her the > heartache that comes with choosing a kitten farm. I hope so too. It's hard, though, for people to take in the information when they're already emotionally committed. And sometimes you find someone who looks real good in a lot of the important ways, and yet there's problems there that you won't find unless you keep digging. I'm going through the process myself, right now, not for a cat but for a dog. I hooked up with a breeder who shows, does agility and obedience, etc. Who very much wanted to meet me first before making any commitments. Who talked to me about what I was looking for in a dog, why I decided on this breed, etc. Asked about my previous experience with dogs, home situation--all the right things. After a while I noticed that none of my questions about health and genetic testing actually got answered, except with assurances that their dogs are healthy and friendly. So I called the breeder referral, asked for the names of a couple of good breeders in slightly different geographic area, and called them. Short story is, if they are testing their dogs for the known genetic problems of the breed, they aren't sharing the results with anyone. NOT a good sign. But at least I found out before giving my heart to a little ball of fluff. > I know so many people that used to come to me, who would openly tell > me that they had already been to see a kitten, perhaps £50 cheaper.. > ( I guess in an attempt to ask me if I would drop the price.. but I > couldn't, because I was only breaking even @ £300). £50?! That's, what, $100, $150 tops? On the $600-$700 purchase of a live animal that's going to be a beloved member of the family? That's nothing! Okay, not nothing, but not even close to a deal-breaker when you understand the cost of proper vet care, food, and socialization for young kittens. Of course, the problem is that they don't understand. > All I was able to do was to advise them as to *why* their prices were > cheaper than mine. The ones that came back to me were worth > considering for adoptive parents for the kittens, & the ones that > tried haggling were no loss at all!! Absolutely! > As I said, I still stay in touch with 98% of them, & It really is > wonderful to receive letters & photos of them, all of 5 years later. I > know that they are well loved and cared for, but most of all, it is > brilliant to know that I chose the right parents;o) I kept actively in touch with the breeder of my two Maine Coons for years. Not so much now, with a couple of states between us, the older cat gone to the Rainbow Bridge, and the younger one a blessedly loving and unexciting adult who refuses to be cute, or even sit still, for the camera. But I still make a point of saying hello whenever we're at the same cat show, and I wouldn't dream of not letting her know of any major developments. Or, indeed, if I were looking for another kitten, or a friend was. (Several of my friends have gotten cats from her as well.) > At the time, it was soo important to me that I would have kept the > kittens rather than let them go to a suspect parents... > An unthinkable thought when you consider it.. > <shudder!!> Just remember, most of them were probably perfectly well-intentioned-- just a little bit ignorant. Not what you'd want for your babies, but not bad people. > Nice to meet you too BTW > S;o) A friendly face on Usenet is a wonderful thing.:) Lis > > I know so many people that used to come to me, who would openly tell > > me that they had already been to see a kitten, perhaps £50 cheaper.. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > for young kittens. Of course, the problem is that they don't > understand. Oh, you'd never believe what they charge in Manhattan! I was scouting around in the idea of taking in a Maine Coon as I am in love with the big furballs. With a reputable breeder, I believe average cost was around $800-$900. Of course, you have to get on a waiting list and then wait for the litter to come in. That could be months to maybe a year or more! However, if you walk into a certain pet store on Lexington and 86th, you can pick up your Maine Coon for about $1,600. Much more expensive, no idea if the cat has been tested to see if it has the genes that can lead to heart failure. Obviously coming from a kitten mill. The point is that the kitten in the pet store is for the impulse buyer. Someone that is obviously not involved in the full process of adopting a kitten, let alone the temperament and health issues relating to a specific breed. This pet store is placed in a very high brow area targeting buyers that are asking questions like, "How much is that dog in the window?" Anyhow, they're not the only ones in this city that offer dogs and cats in their stores. I was rather alarmed to find such a practice when I first adopted my cat just over a year ago. I'm originally from San Francisco and I have not seen a dog or a cat in a pet store in that region for at least a decade! I feel as if it may have been outlawed, but without the time to do a proper google search my memory does not serve me clearly. I have no idea how much animals in pet stores outside of New York are sold for, but it is quite an odd practice, if you ask me. My family has never even considered purchasing a kitten or pup from one of these stores. Best, Heather >Oh, you'd never believe what they charge in Manhattan! I was scouting >around in the idea of taking in a Maine Coon as I am in love with the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >has the genes that can lead to heart failure. Obviously coming from a >kitten mill. <snip> I got Bubba http://www.sonic.net/~claudel/Bubba/Bubba.html from the pound for the adoption fee, shots and the first bag of food included. 26Lbs and still growing. No history though. I still can't believe somebody gave him up, but you never know. > In article <1173310361.507872.184...@c51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > I still can't believe somebody gave him up, but you never know. So adorable!!! I love those cats! After a lot of looking around I actually decided that I didn't want to get a Maine Coon from a breeder. I decided to search petfinder for a Maine Coon that had been given up. Unfortunately, as of right now I won't be adopting any new cats because my beloved Mack C. may have a heart condition and I don't want to put any undue stress on him! Perhaps with proper medication he'll be stable enough for us to add to our family. When I originally saw Mack C., I actually liked his sister because she was all black. I never thought I'd want a cat with white fur because I work in restaurant and tend to wear a lot of darker colored clothes. Anyhow, he was so interactive and I just fell in love with him and I'm so glad I took him with me. Best to not let the color of a cat be the deciding factor when it comes to adoption! Anyhow, here's a pic of my little one. I need to put some other ones up as he's a much and loves the camera! http://www.thebighustle.com/mack2.jpg All the best, Heather > > In article <1173310361.507872.184...@c51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > - Show quoted text - What a sweetheart! He looks like a wonderful little kitty. I'm sure you love him to pieces- White fur and all! :) ~L > What a sweetheart! He looks like a wonderful little kitty. I'm sure > you love him to pieces- White fur and all! :) > > ~L Indeed, thank you all for your warm wishes! He is currently resting on my electrical bill and I hope he keeps it hidden from me for a whole week! Best, Heather >> In article <1173310361.507872.184...@c51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, >> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >here's a pic of my little one. I need to put some other ones up as >he's a much and loves the camera! http://www.thebighustle.com/mack2.jpg Sorry to hear that Mack is ill. That's a great picture. If he gets well enough for a feline companion consider checking out a rescue organization as well. If you use Google search for "Maine Coon Rescue" several places on the East Coast pop up in the first screen. I don't personally have an issue with caring people choosing to breed and sell purebred animals, but $1k+ is a *lot* of money and probably would buy a lifetime of premium cat food... Good luck with Mack. Claude > > In article <1173310361.507872.184...@c51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I am so sorry to hear your news regarding Mack C. I can only tell you that we are sending soothing purrs your way, express delivery.!! We very much hope that he picks up with medication & stabilizes enough to take the worry off your shoulders. Make the most of that wonderful bond & live life for the moment, Continued thoughts & Best Wishes too Sheelagh x > > I know so many people that used to come to me, who would openly tell > > me that they had already been to see a kitten, perhaps £50 cheaper.. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > for young kittens. Of course, the problem is that they don't > understand. Oh, you'd never believe what they charge in Manhattan! I was scouting around in the idea of taking in a Maine Coon as I am in love with the big furballs. With a reputable breeder, I believe average cost was around $800-$900. Of course, you have to get on a waiting list and then wait for the litter to come in. That could be months to maybe a year or more! However, if you walk into a certain pet store on Lexington and 86th, you can pick up your Maine Coon for about $1,600. Much more expensive, no idea if the cat has been tested to see if it has the genes that can lead to heart failure. Obviously coming from a kitten mill. The point is that the kitten in the pet store is for the impulse buyer. Someone that is obviously not involved in the full process of adopting a kitten, let alone the temperament and health issues relating to a specific breed. This pet store is placed in a very high brow area targeting buyers that are asking questions like, "How much is that dog in the window?" Anyhow, they're not the only ones in this city that offer dogs and cats in their stores. I was rather alarmed to find such a practice when I first adopted my cat just over a year ago. I'm originally from San Francisco and I have not seen a dog or a cat in a pet store in that region for at least a decade! I feel as if it may have been outlawed, but without the time to do a proper google search my memory does not serve me clearly. I have no idea how much animals in pet stores outside of New York are sold for, but it is quite an odd practice, if you ask me. My family has never even considered purchasing a kitten or pup from one of these stores. Best, Heather > > I know so many people that used to come to me, who would openly tell > > me that they had already been to see a kitten, perhaps £50 cheaper.. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > for young kittens. Of course, the problem is that they don't > understand. Oh, you'd never believe what they charge in Manhattan! I was scouting around in the idea of taking in a Maine Coon as I am in love with the big furballs. With a reputable breeder, I believe average cost was around $800-$900. Of course, you have to get on a waiting list and then wait for the litter to come in. That could be months to maybe a year or more! However, if you walk into a certain pet store on Lexington and 86th, you can pick up your Maine Coon for about $1,600. Much more expensive, no idea if the cat has been tested to see if it has the genes that can lead to heart failure. Obviously coming from a kitten mill. The point is that the kitten in the pet store is for the impulse buyer. Someone that is obviously not involved in the full process of adopting a kitten, let alone the temperament and health issues relating to a specific breed. This pet store is placed in a very high brow area targeting buyers that are asking questions like, "How much is that dog in the window?" Anyhow, they're not the only ones in this city that offer dogs and cats in their stores. I was rather alarmed to find such a practice when I first adopted my cat just over a year ago. I'm originally from San Francisco and I have not seen a dog or a cat in a pet store in that region for at least a decade! I feel as if it may have been outlawed, but without the time to do a proper google search my memory does not serve me clearly. I have no idea how much animals in pet stores outside of New York are sold for, but it is quite an odd practice, if you ask me. My family has never even considered purchasing a kitten or pup from one of these stores. Best, Heather >> <snip practically everything> >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > it doesn't appear on screen, you don't have to do the whole thing over > &it is not quite such a big disaster.... Sheelagh, I think I have mentioned this to you before. Take the time to install and learn to use an NNTP news client, like Forte Agent. Then you can compose all your messages without worrying about server timeouts and the other perils of composing text on a web script. If something happens to your connection, you can save your compositions off- line and post them later. Moreover, you will find it easier to follow threads. Google is a terrible interface for understanding who is posting what in response to whom. Of all the people in this group who need a good news client, you stand out because you tend to write lengthy, detailed comments. Not that I'm complaining mind you. I like you just the way you are. Charlie > Sheelagh, I think I have mentioned this to you before. Take the time to > install and learn to use an NNTP news client, like Forte Agent. Charlie, Gravity is an old but really good news reader. It is like agent without all the superfluous crap. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Sheelagh, I think I have mentioned this to you before. Take the time >> to install and learn to use an NNTP news client, like Forte Agent. >> > Charlie, Gravity is an old but really good news reader. It is like agent > without all the superfluous crap. Sure. Gravity would be a fine choice. Sheelagh (and Lis) are floundering around on Google's web interface. Charlie On Mar 8, 12:08 am, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> wrote: <snip> > Sure. Gravity would be a fine choice. Sheelagh (and Lis) are > floundering around on Google's web interface. > > Charlie Well, yeah, but in my case, it's because I swore off Usenet years ago, never to return. Never ever. Not even for a few minutes. And if I were to get myself a real newsfeed, and a real news client, that would mean I was back. Since that obviously can't be true, though, I can't possibly need a news client. Right? (Hey! Cut that out! You think I can't hear you howling with laughter?!) Lis I like Googles view.. http://www.2and2.net/files/45ef85f961efb.jpg Maybe you've never tweaked it like in pic... I agree... a web script can get on your nerves... > I like Googles view.. > > http://www.2and2.net/files/45ef85f961efb.jpg > > Maybe you've never tweaked it like in pic... The layout is fine, but I want an offline reader that stores the feed on my hdd so I can sort/search through numerous posts rapidly and not have to worry about timeouts. It's been awhile since I've used Google and maybe it's better, but it seems to cause a lot of confusion. I noticed zinzee posted the same message three times, and I don't have to wonder why... the confirmation timed out so she didn't think it went through. Charlie On Mar 8, 12:21 am, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> wrote: > > I like Googles view.. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Charlie D'oh, sorry! I just got back on Usenet and I'm downloading a trial of your suggestions now! Best, Heather > On Mar 8, 12:21 am, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > D'oh, sorry! It doesn't matter. I knew exactly what happened because I've done it myself. Charlie On 8 Mar, 00:22, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> wrote: > >> <snip practically everything> > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Hi Charlie, & thanks for the avdice. You most definately have mentioned this in the past This is the bit where I have to swallow my pride & admit that I have no idea what you are talking about when you say a *NNTP or Forte Agent either;o( Having said that, I am off to research it now to see what I can come up with. Anything has got to be easier than what I am going through currently, lol!! I am also going to have a search for Gravity too. thanks to both you & Cyber as well, S;o) On 8 Mar, 00:22, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> wrote: > >> <snip practically everything> > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > - Show quoted text - OK, I have done the search & found both Forte News & Gravity... Now, what I need is advice on which one would be best for me to use, in both of your opinions please..? I don't want to down load it only to find out that I have chosen the lesser of the two.. Thanks for the advice too by the way S;o) on Thu, 08 Mar 2007 14:07:00 GMT, "sheelagh" > OK, I have done the search & found both Forte News & Gravity... > Now, what I need is advice on which one would be best for me to use, > in both of your opinions please..? > I don't want to down load it only to find out that I have chosen the > lesser of the two.. > Thanks for the advice too by the way Before you install any newsreader, you should make sure your Internet Service Provider (ISP) has a news server. Go to their home page and do a search on "news server." You may have to be logged on as a member in order to view that information. If your ISP has a news server, you're golden. Then you can install any news reader, enter the information as directed by your ISP, and start reading news groups the way they were meant to be read. SignatureLynne >on Thu, 08 Mar 2007 14:07:00 GMT, "sheelagh" >> OK, I have done the search & found both Forte News & Gravity... >> Now, what I need is advice on which one would be best for me to use, >> in both of your opinions please..? >> I don't want to down load it only to find out that I have chosen the >> lesser of the two.. >> Thanks for the advice too by the way >Before you install any newsreader, you should make sure your Internet >Service Provider (ISP) has a news server. Go to their home page and do a >search on "news server." You may have to be logged on as a member in order >to view that information. If your ISP has a news server, you're golden. >Then you can install any news reader, enter the information as directed by >your ISP, and start reading news groups the way they were meant to be read. In fifteen years, I've never seen an ISP that didn't have a news server. If you get an ISP w/out a news server, you can always use a third party usenet service like supernews; problem is that you have to pay for it. I did exactly that when an ISP I used had problems w/ their news servers. on Thu, 08 Mar 2007 15:22:25 GMT, AZ Nomad <aznomad.2@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote: > In fifteen years, I've never seen an ISP that didn't have a news server. Apparently AOL no longer has a news server. But I never considered AOL to be an ISP in the classic sense. SignatureLynne >on Thu, 08 Mar 2007 15:22:25 GMT, AZ Nomad <aznomad.2@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> >wrote: >> In fifteen years, I've never seen an ISP that didn't have a news server. >Apparently AOL no longer has a news server. But I never considered AOL to >be an ISP in the classic sense. No argument there. Thanks for the news that AOL is ending its polution of usenet with its clueless users. Those on AOL who are actually savvy enough to know that USENET isn't the web can always use a third party service. I just looked up supernews.com (the one I used for a while in the early 90's) and they start at $4/month. on Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:55:27 GMT, AZ Nomad <aznomad.2@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote: > No argument there. Thanks for the news that AOL is ending its > polution of usenet with its clueless users. Those on AOL who are > actually savvy enough to know that USENET isn't the web can always use > a third party service. I just looked up supernews.com (the one I used > for a while in the early 90's) and they start at $4/month. Too bad Google Groups picked up where AOL left off. And then some. *sigh* SignatureLynne >on Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:55:27 GMT, AZ Nomad ><aznomad.2@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote: >> No argument there. Thanks for the news that AOL is ending its >> polution of usenet with its clueless users. Those on AOL who are >> actually savvy enough to know that USENET isn't the web can always use >> a third party service. I just looked up supernews.com (the one I used >> for a while in the early 90's) and they start at $4/month. >Too bad Google Groups picked up where AOL left off. And then some. *sigh* No problem. Both are killfiled entirely on my reader. I have just three exceptions on that rule. > OK, I have done the search & found both Forte News & Gravity... Now, > what I need is advice on which one would be best for me to use, in both [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks for the advice too by the way > S;o) Agent is shareware, with a 30-day trial period after which it disables itself unless you pay the registration fee. Gravity is free. I happen to be more familiar with Agent, and I have never used Gravity, but Gravity has a good reputation. My advice would be to download and install Gravity and see how you like it, i.e., start with freeware and decide if it's good enough, because usually it is. You will have to set it up after you install it... that will require you to find out the name of your ISP's news server... usually something like nntp.ISPcompany.com or news.ISPcompany.com. Go to your ISP's support page for that information. Your ISP's server will probably require authentication, so you will have to enter in your acct. username and password in the appropriate fields, but you can set the newsreader to post under any name you like. Finally you will have to download a list of all the newsgroups your ISP carries, of which this group will almost certainly be included. It's a learning curve, but once you have it set up and are comfortable with it, you will see that it is a big improvement over Google. Charlie > Agent is shareware, with a 30-day trial period after which it disables > itself unless you pay the registration fee. There is also Free Agent. However, I found even that, the pared-down version of Agent, to have a paralyzing array of functions--much more than what I needed. > I happen to be more familiar with Agent, and I have never used Gravity, > but Gravity has a good reputation. > > My advice would be to download and install Gravity and see how you like > it, i.e., start with freeware and decide if it's good enough, because > usually it is. Gravity is simpler, and I find that more user-friendly. Simple minds like simple solutions. :P On 8 Mar, 19:49, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> wrote: > > OK, I have done the search & found both Forte News & Gravity... Now, > > what I need is advice on which one would be best for me to use, in both [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Charlie It sure is a learning cure..!! Thank you both for the advice though. I will let you know when I have managed to down loaded (probably Gravity, to suite my simple mind I think) I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I read that, But I appreciate what you meant..lol;o) If I hit any walls, I hope you won't kind if I come back to you for advice? Thanks, S;o) > I will let you know when I have managed to down loaded (probably > Gravity, to suite my simple mind I think) I didn't know whether to laugh [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Thanks, > S;o) I will be happy to help. I will even install it on my Windows partition and try it out myself. This thread has made me curious about it. Charlie On Mar 8, 7:31 pm, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> wrote: > I will be happy to help. I will even install it on my Windows partition > and try it out myself. This thread has made me curious about it. > > Charlie I installed ubuntu on VPC. trying it out. ubuntu is doing 133 security updates, as I type this. I like it... I decided to do all the updates. Every time I run into one of these os', I think to myself... Maybe I can take one apart and put a new look on it.. and make money like ubuntu people do. That would be nice, to have my own operating system sell it to suckers >> OK, I have done the search & found both Forte News & Gravity... Now, >> what I need is advice on which one would be best for me to use, in both [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Charlie I'm using outlook right now. What do you guys think of their news reader? Seemed easiest because I didn't have to install anything new... >>> OK, I have done the search & found both Forte News & Gravity... Now, >>> what I need is advice on which one would be best for me to use, in both [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >I'm using outlook right now. What do you guys think of their news reader? >Seemed easiest because I didn't have to install anything new... Outlook is sh.t for binary groups. Learn to use Gravity or Agent. > I'm using outlook right now. What do you guys think of their news > reader? Seemed easiest because I didn't have to install anything new... I have never used Outlook. A lot of people do, and I assume it's better than Google's web interface (which is what I thought you were using on the basis of your posting headers). I would say, download Gravity and try it out, and see if you like it better than Outlook. I'm gonna give it a shot myself, just for kicks. What is critically important to me is to be able to search through threads and view the feed through multiple views, i.e., by thread, by author, by the chronological order in which posts show up on the server, etc. etc. I also want to be able to examine headers so I don't get suckered when the sh.t starts to fly. And I want to be able to flag threads so I don't miss replies if a group is getting 500 posts a day. Agent does all these things, and so does my Linux newsreader, Pan. I don't know how well Outlook handles those tasks. Charlie Greetings, all! I'm new to this forum so I didn't realize I had replies until a couple days ago- so... I was surprised when I saw all the feedback! I don't have time to give a "full" response to all the picket signs I see going up, but I'll give you a little bit more background and updates. :) 1) I can't argue the shelter kitty vs. breeder kitty thing because I'm on both sides of that fence. I have always adopted kitties, my family has shelter kitties, and I love them just the same. I "stumbled" on my Bengal a few years ago (long story) and I wanted to get her a Bengal friend who would be "guaranteed" to be more her speed because of her activity level. My original question (although it got quite off-topic) was just about how to bring out the soft side of a naturally crazy breed. But, even if he doesn't turn out to be cuddly I will love him as much as I love my current crazy girl. My aunt actually adopts tons of kitties, but I wouldn't call her a "hero" because she doesn't get any of them fixed so it adds to the problem! I have no idea why she doesn't ever fix them but it drives me crazy. My cat (and the new kitten) came with spay/neuter agreements. If I don't send my breeder notification that my boy has been spayed within 6 months, I owe her an extra grand! If that isn't an incentive then I don't know what is. :) I also donate to pet shelters and contribute financially even though I can't bring them all home with me. Regardless, I won't get into this argument because I really do feel conflicted on both sides of the fence. I appreciate all of your passion about this, though. 2) You are right, I had already purchased the kitten, in full, before the post- so there was no backing out. BUT, I didn't pick him out due to price, certainly. He was a pretty $1,000 US (including 200 for shipping) so he wasn't a dime-a-dozen kitty. My breeder was very reputable, a registered breeder with several organizations, and is listed as a TICA "Outstanding Breeder". She has begged me to come vist and has shown me pictures of her house, her cattery, etc... but distance just won't allow. She is willing to talk to me on the phone for hours about her cats, her setup, and she is obviously sincere. I "fired" two previous breeders that I interviewed because i just didn't get a good vibe from them. She made me fill out an interview form before she would even let me consider purchasing the cat... one of the questions being my veternarian's name and phone number. :) I am VERY sure that she isn't a kitten mill and that she's a wonderful person who loves her cats deeply. She even gave me the recipe for the home cooked meals she feeds them.... Thanks for all the info, guys! ~L > Thanks for all the info, guys! Sounds to me like you've found a good breeder. Hopefully she is handling the kittens a lot and they will be naturally bonded to humans. Perhaps hand feeding your new kitten will help him feel and therefore closer to you? Please share some photos of the new kitten when you get him, and the older residents, too! SignatureLynne |
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