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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2007declawing
I am trying to find out if there is an alternative to declawing my cat I have a 2 year old son who loves our cat and our dog. All three o them play together. The other day the three of them were in a pile o the floor and our cat, Juliet, scratched my son's ear, enough to mak him bleed. Juliet also bit his ear. It was swelling so fast an bleeding, so I rushed him to the doctor. The doctor said that cat carry a deadly disease in their claws and I needed to be very cautiou when they play together. So, my problem is that I do not want to ge rid of my cat and I have heard awful things about declawing. My son' health is my first priority. I can prevent Juliet from hurting him b having her declawed. So my question is, can I protect my son's healt and not hurt Juliet -- Penny Yes you can protect your son's health. Monitor the interaction between your child and the animals and teach him how to behave around them. The child didn't know any better but was apparently hurting the cat while wrestling and Juliet protected herself because nobody else would. It's not the cat's fault that your son got hurt but yours. Small children should NEVER be left unattended around animals. They don't realize when they are hurting the animal and you can't expect your pets not to defend themselves. Sometimes even normal interaction with a cat can result in a minor scratch. To help avoid them you can take your cat to a groomer and have soft paws applied or do it yourself at home. They are soft rubber caps that fit over your cat's claws. http://www.softpaws.com/ I can't believe you even considered declawing the cat. Please re-home it first. W > I am trying to find out if there is an alternative to declawing my cat. > I have a 2 year old son who loves our cat and our dog. All three of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > having her declawed. So my question is, can I protect my son's health > and not hurt Juliet? > Yes you can protect your son's health. Monitor the interaction between > your child and the animals and teach him how to behave around them. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I can't believe you even considered declawing the cat. Please re-home > it first. I agree 100% with everything here.  SignatureLynne on Fri, 02 Feb 2007 18:34:09 GMT, Lynne <unmonitored.email@gmail.com> wrote: > I agree 100% with everything here. I should also add that I had cats before I had babies and declawing them never crossed my mind. We never had problems because I always supervised my children. SignatureLynne > Yes you can protect your son's health. Monitor the interaction between > your child and the animals and teach him how to behave around them. The [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I can't believe you even considered declawing the cat. Please re-home it > first. ---------------- I can vouch for Softpaws. They worked great for my cat. When my son was beginning to crawl, he crawled over to Alex who was perched on a chair. A swipe of the paw, and my son had a scratch on his face. The way somebody explained this to me was as follows: (I don't know if this is true or not, but it sounded plausible). The cat sees another creature who is about his size and on all fours (just like the cat), but the cat knows the creature is not his kind, and the child is staring at the cat, eyeball to eyeball, so the cat lets the child know who's in charge. I was told that once my son could walk, I would not have this problem, and it was absolutely true. In the meantime, we clipped Alex's claws and got Softpaws. They are soft flexible rubber caps that are glued over the cats claws. They generally don't fall off and only need to be replaced when the cat's claws grow out. They worked great, and we didn't need to use them for very long. FTR, I also agree 100% that children don't have any business wrestling with animals. Children need to be taught how to behave around animals. When Daisy first arrived as a foster (she is now one of my permanent cats), my son (who was about 8 years old by then) came up to me crying, saying that Daisy had scratched his face. I told him that if she scratched his face, he must have been in her face, and that he had only himself to blame. Animals generally need to be protected from children, not the other way around. You can't fault an animal for defending himself/herself. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > Yes you can protect your son's health. Monitor the interaction between your > child and the animals and teach him how to behave around them. The child [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I totally agree with the soft paws! They are not that hard to put on and your furniture is protected. I am against the declawing of cats. I belive that we need to get the word out on alternative ways such as Soft Paws!! Christa > I am trying to find out if there is an alternative to declawing my cat. > I have a 2 year old son who loves our cat and our dog. All three of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > having her declawed. So my question is, can I protect my son's health > and not hurt Juliet? Yes, and very easily. Get these: http://tinyurl.com/2plh69 for $5, and when you have a friend with you, one of you roll kitty up in an old towel with one paw sticking out and just snip the tips of kitty's claws. Once a month will do it. Also, any time kitty puts her claws out when playing clap and say "NO" loudly. Don't play with her with your hands, use a feather-on-a-string kind of thing. Your doctor, by the way, was wildly exaggerating. Your son will learn so much from interacting with kitty every day. You can teach him a lifetime of goodness via Juliet. Don't teach him it is okay to mutilate an animal for your convenience. (Plus, I declawed my first cat and she wound up becoming a biter--and she never trusted me after that. It changed everything.) How about some pics of Julia? ;) SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com I agree with the advice that's been given here. If Softpaws don't work for you, keeping Juliet's claws trimmed regularly will help. (Your vet can show you how far to clip.) The doctor was probably referring to something called "cat scratch disease:" http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/infections/bacterial_viral/cat_scratch.html I understand this disease is relatively rare. It's a cat bite that's more of a danger, as a cat's mouth naturally harbors lots of bacteria. Always wash a scratch or bite with soap and water and apply Neosporin, and keep a close eye on the wounds. > I am trying to find out if there is an alternative to declawing my cat. > I have a 2 year old son who loves our cat and our dog. All three of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > having her declawed. So my question is, can I protect my son's health > and not hurt Juliet? Yes, and very easily. Get these: http://tinyurl.com/2plh69 for $5, and when you have a friend with you, one of you roll kitty up in an old towel with one paw sticking out and just snip the tips of kitty's claws. Once a month will do it. Also, any time kitty puts her claws out when playing clap and say "NO" loudly. Don't play with her with your hands, use a feather-on-a-string kind of thing. Your doctor, by the way, was wildly exaggerating. Your son will learn so much from interacting with kitty every day. You can teach him a lifetime of goodness via Juliet. Don't teach him it is okay to mutilate an animal for your convenience. (Plus, I declawed my first cat and she wound up becoming a biter--and she never trusted me after that. It changed everything.) How about some pics of Julia? ;) SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > I am trying to find out if there is an alternative to declawing my cat. > I have a 2 year old son who loves our cat and our dog. All three of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > -- i agree with everything said by the other posters about not leaving little kids with animals, kids as young as 2 don't really understand that a cat is not a plaything and is not a toy to be pulled about and annoyed, so either you need to be there to supervise him with her and stop him annoying her OR just let him learn the hard way that if he does pull her about she will scratch him when he gets too rough with her and scares her. Remember that to your cat your son is a huge animal much bigger than herself, very threatening by his size, and he probably doesnt' know his own strength or that other animals/people can feel pain and upset just like he can (no I am not saying he is thick or a retard or anything, simple child psychology states that toddlers do not develop a theory of mind, which is what is required to feel empathy for others suffering, until the age of 4 years, if at all). Therefore little lessons like 'when you pull the cats tail she will turn around and scratch you' are very valuable and probably more so to a small child who learns more by experience than from being told. Through these little lessons he will earn respect for your beautiful cat and to be gentle with her and that she is a princess who deserves respect and to be worshipped (as all cats do of course). and don't worry about her scratching your son, this doctor was scaremongering, throughout my life I have been scratched and bitten by many dogs, cats, even a terrapin at one point, stung by bees, wasps, mosquitoes, etc. All it has done is made me more hardy, and in my former years gave me a respect for animals that they are not toys but free thinking creatures who deserve to not have their personal space invaded by some marauding child (even if said child just wanted to cuddle the big doggy in the park). The likelihood that your son has caught somethign from a simple cat scratch is extremely low, don't worry about it, if anything it will have exposed him to some good old fashioned germs and built up his immune system, something which isn't happening with a lot of kids these days who are being wrapped up in cotton woll too much by their molly-coddling parents. Please remember that Juliet would not scratch anyone out of spite or just to be mean or malicious, cats only scratch or bite to try to defend themselves when they are scared or feel threatened. Your son may not have been doing anything he thought was threatening but again think about how much bigger he is than her and how he must appear to her and how his behaviour which may only be 'playing' in his mind may feel like a threat from a larger animal to her. lastly DO NOT GET YOUR CAT DECLAWED save your money and your cat from a lifetime of misery and just teach your son to leave the cat alone and back off when she displays certain 'warning signals' that she has had enough of his 'play' eg tail swishing, ears flat back, growling. It will much better for everyone in the long term. cheers Bookie > I am trying to find out if there is an alternative to declawing my cat. > I have a 2 year old son who loves our cat and our dog. All three of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > having her declawed. So my question is, can I protect my son's health > and not hurt Juliet? WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK! WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK! WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK! WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK! WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK! WHACK!WHACK!WHACK!WHACK! That's my head on my desk. It's been fun guys, it really has. I simply cannot take any more of these completely assinine posts. Have a good life - I love you all. You know where to find me, if you want to. :) xoxo, -L. -L, take a break, take a Usenet vacation, then come back when you're refreshed. People need advice, people need YOUR advice, because there are vets out there telling them their cats are going to kill their kids. See ya soon, Rhonda > It's been fun guys, it really has. I simply cannot take any more of > these completely assinine posts. Have a good life - I love you all. > You know where to find me, if you want to. :) > xoxo, > -L. > -L, take a break, take a Usenet vacation, then come back when you're > refreshed. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > - Show quoted text - i do find i some times feel the same as -L, just fed up of supposedly intelligent people (well they are using a computer so they do have the basics of a brain) coming out with stuff which indicates so strongly that they no common sense whatsoever. how many kids through the ages have been scratched by cats or other animals? millions! and how many have died of some horrible disease because of it? probably about 1 or 2, and those probably had some freaky immune system problem anyway. I just soooooo get bored of these twats who are overprotective of either their nauseating children or their furniture and use this as a good excuse to mutilate and inflict harm on their cats, and I often find it very hard to keep patiently explaining to these cretins that declawing is BAD and the consequences for everyone involved (cat and human) are NOT NICE. It is just like repeating yourself to a bunch of imbeciles and retards, and it does sap my energy after a while, i get very bored of it. I really feel that sometimes I agree with -L's sentiments and I empathise with her frustrations, now I am off to eat a whole big jar of white chocolate spread straight out of the jar with a spoon, and then i am going to climb in the bottom of my bedroom cupboard and have a cuddle with jessie, and possibly a snooze too while the choccy spread clogs up my arteries. bookie bookie, If you are going to binge on chocolate, at least make it dark chocolate. White is very high in bad fats. ---MIKE--- >>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire >> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580') > bookie, If you are going to binge on chocolate, at least make it dark > chocolate. White is very high in bad fats. > > ---MIKE--->>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire I know, I have read lots of newpaper reports stating that in fact plain choc is good for you in moderation and helps protect your heart because of some things which are in it (flavonoids? dont; know). Thing is I have a really sweet tooth like that and I just love the pure sugaryness of white chocolate and I am not keen onthe bitterness of plain chocolate or the rancid aftertaste you sometimes get in cheapo dark chocolate. I only ever buy dark chocolate to bake with, never to eat, I am a true MilkyBar kid and I like it creamy and white, milk chocolate is ok too, but not plain; too hard and bitter. I will probably die young (ish) because of it, especially considering the high instance of dangerously high cholesterol levels on my mums side, but at least I will be happy. And don't worry I will make adequate provision for my cat before I do pop my clogs. bookie > I just soooooo get bored of these twats who are overprotective of > either their nauseating children or their furniture and use this as a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > imbeciles and retards, and it does sap my energy after a while, i get > very bored of it. ----------- Please remember that a lot of well-meaning people really don't get it, and from the OP's perspective, why wouldn't she believe what her vet said? He's supposedly the animal expert, isn't he?? I understand your frustration (I feel it too), but you can attract a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar. Calling someone a cretin, an imbecile, or a retard is not going to enamor the person to you or make her want to listen to what you (or the rest of us) have to say. After all, she did come to this newsgroup *hoping to find an alternative to the declaw*. Many years ago, I was in her shoes. The cat rescue group could have called me a cretin too, but instead they just told me to get the SoftPaws, which I did, and they worked. Now, I'm always crusading against declawing, but back then, I didn't understand how it worked, and didn't realize it was so horrible until someone explained it to me. The last thing we want is for this women to go off and say "those people on that cat group seem so rude and nasty, unlike my veterinarian who seems so nice and kind." Once you start calling people names, they close their ears and run the other way and then they are convinced the veterinarian is right, and they try to find someone who will reassure them that declawing is a good idea. We are so much farther ahead if we try to calmly explain to her where her veterinarian's advice is in error (he probably makes a lot of money doing declaws), and suggest other ways she can handle the situation, rather than calling her an idiot and saying her children are nauseating. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > > I just soooooo get bored of these twats who are overprotective of > > either their nauseating children or their furniture and use this as a [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. i was just thinkign out loud, and as i said before i get really tired of having to tip toe around, i dont' have much patience in my old age you know. I thought it was her doctor, the one she took her son to, which was doing the scaremongering and telling her her son was going to die of some deadly and highly infectious disease passed on by cat scratches? maybe I didn't read the post propoerly (too busy seeing red) but i didn't mention of a vet tryign to sell highly expensive declawing surgery. if vet try to push expensive surgery which involved unnecessary mutilation of an animal I would call that unethical and contact whatever professional body vets are a member of in your country. bookie >> > I just soooooo get bored of these twats who are overprotective of >> > either their nauseating children or their furniture and use this as a [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > of having to tip toe around, i dont' have much patience in my old age > you know. I understand. I feel exactly the same way you do. Unfortunately, I have a tendency to come on strong with other people, and I always see it backfire. I was absolutely begging with one of my extended family members not to have her cat declawed (the third cat they had had declawed), but she did it anyway. I was crying. And wasn't even as if she had the *excuse* that the cat had scratched either her child or the furniture. For her, as for many people, it is simply part of the package of adopting a new cat. Veterinarian sometimes give a discount if the declaw is done along with the spay or neuter (because the animal only requires anesthesia once). > I thought it was her doctor, the one she took her son to, which was > doing the scaremongering and telling her her son was going to die of > some deadly and highly infectious disease passed on by cat scratches? > maybe I didn't read the post propoerly (too busy seeing red) You're right. I misread. >but i > didn't mention of a vet tryign to sell highly expensive declawing > surgery. That was my speculation. > if vet try to push expensive surgery which involved unnecessary > mutilation of an animal I would call that unethical and contact > whatever professional body vets are a member of in your country. While I've never known a vet to *push* the procedure, a lot of them don't discourage it either. I have never had a vet suggest it to me, but I can tell you from personal experience that many years ago when I inquired about it and asked the vet wasn't it horribly cruel? I was reassured that it was really no big deal. I would like to think that the mentality is different now, but in the USA, plenty of veterinarians do declaws. Personally, I would like to see the whole thing outlawed across the board nationally. Best regards, ---Cindy S. >> I just soooooo get bored of these twats who are overprotective of >> either their nauseating children or their furniture and use this as a [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. For the record then - de-clawing isn't the removal of just the claw. It is the amputation of the last bone and attached claw on each toe that is done. It is like removing the tips of one's fingers at the last knuckle - 10 amputations for a front de-claw and 18 if the back are done also. Then kitty is expected to be able to walk on them and dig in the litter box like a good kitty. It is not possible to just remove just the claw. It is too integrated with the bone to successfully do so. W > >> I just soooooo get bored of these twats who are overprotective of > >> either their nauseating children or their furniture and use this as a [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Because declawing isn't a normal practise over on this side of the pond, it is not something that we generally think about I suppose. I am glad that you brought up for debate though, because like all things, you never look into things...until it affects you personally. Reading your post Wendy, is utterly horrifying. I have been watching this post occasionally rather than commenting, because I don't know very much about it. I had no idea that it was more like an amputation!!! That is horribly shocking.... I find it hard to believe that people willingly put their cats through this "knowing" what they are doing????? That is terrible! Does everyone do this as routine to their cats? Horrifying is an understatement actually..I feel physically sick actually.. However, knowledge, is power...If I ever meet anyone that is contemplating what you are explaining, I will be sure to send them to a site where it explains in as graphic detail as possible, that they intend to do to their cat...YUK! S;o( >> For the record then - de-clawing isn't the removal of just the claw. It >> is [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > intend to do to their cat...YUK! > S;o( No everyone doesn't do this as routine <shudder> although I have heard of some vets more interested in their pocketbook then ethics presenting it as so. Some people have no idea what this procedure entails and others know full well and do it anyway. Apparently there are physicians who are adding to the problem too. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I recently was bitten (my fault ... stupidity) by a cat I had just trapped from a feral colony. She got me between the knuckles (index finger and middle finger). She also must have connected with bone because she knocked out one of her lower canine teeth (fortunately a baby tooth). The hand swelled pretty badly so I ended up at the doctor. He prescribed antibiotics and then said that I either needed to get rabies shots or take the cat to be tested ..... then. As testing a cat for rabies involves killing the cat I chose the shots. When the doctor heard of my decision later he was horrified and his comment was he would have killed the cat in a heartbeat rather than get the shots. They're only shots for goodness sake - nothing like the horror stories I had heard when I was a kid and he should have known that. I will give him a hard time about it next time I see him. W > When the doctor heard of my > decision later he was horrified and his comment was he would have > killed the cat in a heartbeat rather than get the shots. They're only > shots for goodness sake - nothing like the horror stories I had heard > when I was a kid and he should have known that. I will give him a hard > time about it next time I see him. That disgusts me. Good for you for doing the right thing! Rabies shots *used* to be a nightmare for people, but that is simply not the case anymore. I wouldn't patronize that doctor again, and I'd be sure to tell him exactly why. My family doctor is a huge animal lover, and in fact recommended we get a dog for my son one year when he was very, very sick and unable to attend school--even though he was allergic. He instructed me on all the ways to minimize the allergy problem, and they were very effective. It was a great decision for all of us, and we haven't been without a dog since. SignatureLynne >>> For the record then - de-clawing isn't the removal of just the claw. It >>> is [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > W Unfortunately when it comes to rabies the animal usually loses. I do rabies testing for our county public health department and we see so many animals euthanized for really stupid reasons because there "may" have been an exposure. One of the saddest was a Saint Bernard who had slobbered on someone--the poor beast was euthanized and tested for rabies. I'd like to see a St. Bernard that doesn't slobber. Rabies is a real risk in much if not most of the US (lucky Brits!) and there are times when testing is warranted. It is a horrible disease, painful and invariably fatal but so many times testing seems needless. People panic, the shots are expensive (and a lot of people hate shots!) and many people don't want to pay for their animals to be quarantined for several weeks. In the lab, we (the microbiologists) are vaccinated against rabies and that might be a good idea for those who work extensively with feral animals, including cats. Unfortunately many of the cats we end up testing for rabies are cats that are injured or being rescued that bite their would-be rescuers. Also, many people don't keep up on the rabies vaccines. People can get cat-scratch disease by cat scratches and by biting, so declawing ain't going to help and in healthy people it's not that serious. (It can be a real problem for people that are immunocompromised.) On the other hand, cat bites can be very serious, especially if the bite is deep. A couple of years ago one of the county animal control officers ended up spending several weeks in the hospital on IV antibiotics due to a deep cat bite to the bone. Just my 2 cents Bonnie > Unfortunately when it comes to rabies the animal usually loses. I do > rabies testing for our county public health department and we see so many [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Bonnie I asked if the series of shots I just got would protect me if I got bitten again and they said I'd have to get the series all over again if that happened. What type of shot do they give to you and how often do you need to get the vaccination? W > I asked if the series of shots I just got would protect me if I got bitten > again and they said I'd have to get the series all over again if that > happened. What type of shot do they give to you and how often do you need > to get the vaccination? > > W If you were bitten you probably got immunoglobulin which is sort of a passive immunity--as opposed to a vaccine. What I got is an actual vaccine so I'm actively making antibodies to rabies. Our rabies titers are checked periodically and if the titer is low we then get re-vaccinated. I think in 20 some years of rabies testing I've been re-vaccinated once. If I were to be bitten, I would then be given immunoglobulin but not as many shots as someone who had not been vaccinated. HTH, Bonnie > What I got is an actual vaccine > so I'm actively making antibodies to rabies. > HTH, Bonnie I should go back and put you comments in context. What do you mean you are actively making antibodies? You talking about an antibody someone gave someone you know or YOU work in a lab with a white coat? Thanks... >> What I got is an actual vaccine >> so I'm actively making antibodies to rabies. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thanks... I'm sorry I wasn't clear. When you're given a rabies vaccine your body starts making antibodies against rabies. I work in a lab with a white coat but am not involved in making antibodies--I am a microbiologist working in Public Health. > I'm sorry I wasn't clear. When you're given a rabies vaccine your body > starts making antibodies against rabies. At first I understood it like you meant it, but then I second guessed your meaning. > I work in a lab with a white coat but am not involved in making > antibodies--I am a microbiologist working in Public Health. Well then here's wishing you good success with your works. >> I'm sorry I wasn't clear. When you're given a rabies vaccine your body >> starts making antibodies against rabies. > > At first I understood it like you meant it, but then I second guessed your > meaning. Well I was half asleep when I wrote it! I'm not a morning person! >> I work in a lab with a white coat but am not involved in making >> antibodies--I am a microbiologist working in Public Health. > > Well then here's wishing you good success with your works. Thank you--actually it's pretty enjoyable most of the time! Bonnie > I asked if the series of shots I just got would protect me if I got bitten > again and they said I'd have to get the series all over again if that > happened. What type of shot do they give to you and how often do you need > to get the vaccination? > > W Hi Wendy, This link to CDC addresses rabies protocol better than I can. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rabies/prevention&control/preventi.htm Bonnie |
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