Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / January 2007
Best Method for Declawing a Cat?
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eDog - 18 Jan 2007 17:45 GMT Although I am against it, a new and rather expensive leather sofa has raised the possibility of declawing my 3 cats.
If I have to get them declawed what is the best way to do it?
What kinds of questions should I ask the vet? What kind of equipment should he have/use?
Simply declawing their front paws may not accomplish much with regard to protecting the furniture.
Also, I am going to ask in a separate thread:
If I keep my cats nails trimmed short will they still be able to (unintentionally) damage my leather sofa?
 Signature Looking for a clue.
cybercat - 18 Jan 2007 17:50 GMT > If I keep my cats nails trimmed short will they still be able to > (unintentionally) damage my leather sofa? No.
Don't declaw. All methods are the same--amputation of the last joint of the fingers. I had this done to my first cat, and she became a biter, and stopped covering her poop in the cat box. It deforms their feet and it is not necessary. I have two cats now, keep their claws trimmed, and have no damage at all. Perfect "one-two" strategy: trim claws and get stuff they like to scratch more than the sofa. Tall posts (32 inches or better) and an Alpine Scratcher work for us.
IBen Getiner - 24 Jan 2007 09:51 GMT > > If I keep my cats nails trimmed short will they still be able to > > (unintentionally) damage my leather sofa? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Don't declaw. All methods are the same--amputation of the last joint > of the fingers. Cats don't HAVE fingers, jerk-off...
> I had this done to my first cat, and she became a biter, Bullshit. YOU began to feel unwarranted guilt. That's all. That's because you're emotionally imbalanced.
> and stopped covering her poop in the cat box. Maybe you need to change the litter a little more often? That's usually the problem in this area, you know...
> It deforms their feet Bullshit. Prove that claim.
> and it is not necessary. The claws are the only thing that is not necessary. That's why we have them removed.
> I have two cats now, keep their claws trimmed, > and have no damage at all. Again, more bullshit. I've never been over to the house of a anti-declaw kook yet where their furniture doesn't look like someone cut it up for paper dolls. One look and you can tell you've got a nut-job on your hands.
> Perfect "one-two" strategy: trim claws and > get stuff they like to scratch more than the sofa. Tall posts (32 inches or > better) and an Alpine Scratcher work for us. Perfect one... (and that's it) strategy. GET THE ANIMAL'S CLAWS REMOVED. They live indoors so they don't need them anymore. I don't understand why someone would even hesitate. It's just common sense.
IBen
Lynne - 18 Jan 2007 17:51 GMT > If I keep my cats nails trimmed short will they still be able to > (unintentionally) damage my leather sofa? Trim their nails short and they will not damage it. There may be surface scuffs, but unless they use your leather as a scratching post, they won't tear it. The rivets on your blue jeans will cause more damage. Make sure you have several tall scratching posts available for them to use and teach them not to scratch the leather. It works in my house just fine.
You had the cats before you had the leather. Considering performing a barbaric and cruel procedure on them to protect an inanimate object is reprehensible. Just don't do it. Or, if you are still considering it, cut your own fingers off between the last two knuckles first so you'll get an idea of what it's like for a cat to be declawed.
 Signature Lynne
Matthew - 18 Jan 2007 17:59 GMT Before you go thru with the can of worms try Google the subject of declawing. That subject will get you in serious water with cat lovers specially over a materialistic concern.
But before the cat lovers cut your throat. Try these first instead of the butchering process you suggested
Softpaws Train your cat to use a cat scratching post.
> Although I am against it, a new and rather expensive leather sofa has > raised the possibility of declawing my 3 cats. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > If I keep my cats nails trimmed short will they still be able to > (unintentionally) damage my leather sofa? eDog - 18 Jan 2007 19:31 GMT I already trained the cats to use a scratching post. They don't scratch the leather sofa on purpose.
I ordered SoftPaws and am expecting them to show up today. I am a little wary of them for a couple reasons. Plastic can do a pretty good job of scratching leather too for one thing.
Not to shift blame, but my spouse is far less understanding about cat damage than I am.
A ruined sofa is going to do a lot to stress my marriage.
"Matthew" <Iamacatslave@proudtoserve.com> wrote in news:45afb56f$0$7666 $4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
> Softpaws > Train your cat to use a cat scratching post
 Signature Looking for a clue.
cybercat - 18 Jan 2007 19:35 GMT > Not to shift blame, but my spouse is far less understanding about cat > damage than I am. > > A ruined sofa is going to do a lot to stress my marriage. I am so sad for you, and for her. As well as the cats.
cindys - 18 Jan 2007 19:44 GMT >I already trained the cats to use a scratching post. They don't scratch the > leather sofa on purpose. > > I ordered SoftPaws and am expecting them to show up today. I am a little > wary of them for a couple reasons. Plastic can do a pretty good job of > scratching leather too for one thing. When my son was learning to crawl, our cat took a swipe at his face. I clipped the cat's claw's and got SoftPaws. The plastic is very soft, and the cat's claws are completely encased. The cat never took a swipe at him after that once, but if he had, my son's face would have been completely safe
> Not to shift blame, but my spouse is far less understanding about cat > damage than I am. Then maybe you need to find new homes for your cats.
> A ruined sofa is going to do a lot to stress my marriage. This has gotta be a troll. Best regards, ---Cindy S.
Matthew - 18 Jan 2007 20:34 GMT Wife's can be replaced for if it was the cats or her she would find her self out the door specially if is was something materialistic
>I already trained the cats to use a scratching post. They don't scratch the > leather sofa on purpose. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> Softpaws >> Train your cat to use a cat scratching post eDog - 18 Jan 2007 20:44 GMT Divorces are messy things.
I would like to avoid getting to that "Me or the cats"! moment.
And I would really like to avoid getting to it AFTER declawing the cats.
That would be the worst of all possible worlds.
> Wife's can be replaced for if it was the cats or her she would find > her self out the door specially if is was something materialistic
 Signature Looking for a clue.
Lynne - 18 Jan 2007 21:02 GMT > Divorces are messy things. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > That would be the worst of all possible worlds. I would divorce someone who put the 'welfare' of a piece of furniture ahead of the welfare of a living, breathing, LOVING creature that I had commited to taking care of for its lifetime... but I digress. Take the option of declawing OFF the table. Seriously.
 Signature Lynne
Buddy's Mom - 18 Jan 2007 22:51 GMT In all honesty - front declawing the cats will not affect the furniture. The leather will be scratched from their back claws every time they leap. I posted on your other topic too, but wanted to stress that front declawing will not do the job that you want done - I've been there, done that with shelter kitties.
> Divorces are messy things. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Wife's can be replaced for if it was the cats or her she would find > > her self out the door specially if is was something materialistic Phil P. - 19 Jan 2007 10:49 GMT > Divorces are messy things. Not if you initiate the proceedings. Sounds like your wife probably has a whole basket full of problems. If I were you, I'd cut my losses. Do you really want to be with some one whose so insensitive to another creature- not to mention your feelings.
> I would like to avoid getting to that "Me or the cats"! moment. I think that's inevitable. I know the mentality and I see the early warning signs-- I've been through it *twice*. My cats are still here. After I was given "the ultimatum", I could no longer trust my wife alone with my cats. She had to go *that day*-- and she did.
If a fuuking sofa is stressing your marriage, its probably on shakey ground to begin with. What happens when she complains about cat hair on her clothes? Is she going to tell you to shave the cat? What about the litter box? What happens when the cat wants to sleep next you in bed? What happens if the cat gets sick and needs expensive treatment which interferes with her vacation plans? So you see? Complaining about scratches on the sofa is just the beginning.
Declawing your cat is only a temporary solution for you- but its permanent mayhem and deprivation for your cat.
> And I would really like to avoid getting to it AFTER declawing the cats. If you declaw your cats, you'll resent her for the rest of your life. You might be able to surpress the resentment for awhile, but sooner or later it will surface.
http://maxshouse.com/facts_about_declawing.htm
> That would be the worst of all possible worlds. Complaining about scratches on the sofa is just the tip of the iceberg. If I were you, I'd cut my losses. There are millions of women who would love to meet a man who loves cats cares so deeply about their welfare. Just go to any pet store on a Saturday! You can trust me on that!
Phil
eDog - 19 Jan 2007 19:22 GMT Yup, that's alrady not allowed.
> What happens when the cat wants to sleep next you in bed? At least it's not allowed when she's in the bed.
I regularly get to nap with all three of them in the bed. We have different schedules and that works out pretty well.
I can see her point at night. There is always some kind of antics going on between the 3 of them at 3 in the morning. We lock them out of the bedroom at night.
When I used to live alone and had a different pair of cats (deceased now) they frequently woke meup at night. If I tried locking them out of the room they would cry at the door and tear up the linoleum in the hallway.
It was less trouble to allow them into my bed and just send them packing when they started to misbehave.
The three cats I have now do a pretty good job of keeping each other company at night, but they do love those daytime naps with daddy when they get a chance.
Alan - 20 Jan 2007 00:07 GMT (singsong) I'm tellin' 'ya Dog ... Ditch the wife ...
- Phil, it ain't the sofa that's stressing eDog, it's the spouse. If he ditches the cats he'll be unhappy and will have to live with the mental demons. If he ditches the sofa he'll be unhappy and will have to live with the Demon. If he ditches the wife, he'll be unhappy until he finds a girlfriend (or 2). He's got an apartment so there can't be much community property and she can have the freakin' sofa. (I bet the female lurkers on this forum are loving this!!) I'm done.
> > Divorces are messy things. > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Phil bookie - 20 Jan 2007 01:10 GMT > (singsong) > I'm tellin' 'ya Dog ... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > (I bet the female lurkers on this forum are loving this!!) > I'm done. actually i am in complete agreement with the idea of him ditching this old hag of a wife and moving on, she obviously loves her bloody sofa far more than she loves him or else she woudl be more concerned about the things he loves most in life (the cats) and would be taking their welfare into consideration above that of her soft furnishings. If you really love someone then you love what comes with them and in this case it is this guys cats, so if she doesn't love the cats then to me it just shows that really doesn't love him much either, or she would not want to hurt him by hurting the cats, simple really.
if anybody, ANYBODY, ever said to me "it's me or your cat" then i would happily pack their bags for them, they would be history and i would not turn a hair about it as they obviously were not good enough for me (few men are anyway). Have had similar issues with chaps complaining about me putting my sport before them and they did not last long at all.
actually i really keen on this idea which has been put forward about removing all the end bones of this wife's fingers and toes, and then seeing if she still wants to proceed with declawing the pusses. she would most probably be too busy screaming post-op in agony to worry about her bloody sofa then. Can we do the amputations without anaesthetic too? just to hammer the point home of course, in case she forgets a few years later.
laters Bookie ps some people really do my f.cking head in
Charlie Wilkes - 20 Jan 2007 02:53 GMT > if anybody, ANYBODY, ever said to me "it's me or your cat" then i would > happily pack their bags for them, they would be history and i would not > turn a hair about it as they obviously were not good enough for me (few > men are anyway). Have had similar issues with chaps complaining about > me putting my sport before them and they did not last long at all. What is this sport you keep mentioning???
Charlie
cybercat - 20 Jan 2007 20:22 GMT > What is this sport you keep mentioning??? I bet it means "fun."
bookie - 20 Jan 2007 21:21 GMT > > What is this sport you keep mentioning??? > > > I bet it means "fun." it can do but mostly it means training at least once a day, cold weather, early morning outings on the water in the dark before work in the winter (thankfully not so common these days now i am takign a step back), bad backs, sore hands, being tired all the time, spending all your money on training, competing and equipment, club politics, egotistical coaches, sore muscles, no social life at weekends as you have to get up at 6am to get on the water early, etc etc. But it also means winning, being fit, beating other peple, being the best at what you enjoy doing, getting out in the sunshine, being part of a team, celebrating wins with lots of alcohol, black tie boat club dinners, getting dressed up for henley royal regatta and watching lots of fit men in tight lycra race past from the comfort of the grandstand or your deckchair whilst someone orders you another Pimms and lemonade, training camps abroad, going out for post training or post regatta beers with your crew, etc etc. like anything else, the more you are prepared to put the more you get out of it
bookie
bookie - 20 Jan 2007 21:12 GMT > > if anybody, ANYBODY, ever said to me "it's me or your cat" then i would > > happily pack their bags for them, they would be history and i would not [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Charlie sorry, rowing, or sculling more these days as you can do that on your own (and I have no mates, apart from my furry ones, and they can't scull, and they are not really mates as such more like furry superiors i must obey without question). It takes up alot of my spare time even though i can't be bothered to compete much anymore, and can be as much of an obsession as cats can be in that you really have to change your life to do it and friends and partners rarely understand why you have to forego this that or the other for it (and are quite willing to do so too).
I have never had any bloke say to me "it's me or the cat" (i do not think they would dare, they know what response they would get) but I have had one or two incredibly stupid chaps come out with "if you go rowing again in the morning, then that's it; we're finished!". It is quite amusing, they actually think I am going to do as they demand, that I am actually going to give up going rowing in the morning, maybe let down the rest of a crew i am supposed to rowing with, and stay at home with some boring bloke just because that chap has thrown a strop after realising that he is not one's main life priority and my existence does not revolve around him. Can't imagine what goes through their heads to think i will do as they ask, they must obviously be a bit simple or mentally retarded or something, or maybe they are just blokes.
so there you go
bookie
MaryL - 20 Jan 2007 21:36 GMT > they are not really mates as such more like furry superiors > i must obey without question. > > bookie LOL!! I love this description. Perfect!
MaryL
bookie - 21 Jan 2007 00:46 GMT > > they are not really mates as such more like furry superiors > > i must obey without question. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > MaryL unlike some people i have never been under the illusion that I OWN my cats, i am well aware that i am simply here to meet their constant demands for food, door openings, pre-warmed comfy chairs, plumped up duvets, chopped bits of ham, and other requirements, and that I should consider myself truly lucky that they have chosen me to be their slave. I now find myself waiting to hang stuff up in my own wardrobe until jessie has finished her snooze in the bottom of it and emerged, lest I should wake her whilst I hang up a pair of trousers or something (i did do this once and got a real evil look from her, so i will not risk it again).
bookie
MaryL - 21 Jan 2007 01:11 GMT >> > they are not really mates as such more like furry superiors >> > i must obey without question. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > bookie Also...I am sure most of us have opted out of sitting in our favorite chair or sofa because it is already occupied by our furry owners. Somehow, I sometimes find that Holly or Duffy have pushed me to the edge of the bed. I'm not sure hos a 9-lb. bundle of fur does that, but it happens!
MaryL
Phil P. - 23 Jan 2007 05:25 GMT > Also...I am sure most of us have opted out of sitting in our favorite chair > or sofa because it is already occupied by our furry owners. Somehow, I > sometimes find that Holly or Duffy have pushed me to the edge of the bed. > I'm not sure hos a 9-lb. bundle of fur does that, but it happens! > > MaryL Or- how many times have you watched a lousy movie or sickening infomercial because you couldn't reach the remote without wakening up your cat? And here's another: a leg cramp- you couldn't move because your cat was sleeping on your hip? And my all time personal favorite: asking your girlfriend to get up and get you a glass of water because your cat was sleeping on you and you didn't want to disturb your cat's sleep?
Phil
Nomen Nescio - 23 Jan 2007 21:10 GMT -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>From: "Phil P." <phil@maxshouse.com>
>Or- how many times have you watched a lousy movie or sickening infomercial >because you couldn't reach the remote without wakening up your cat? And [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Phil Around here, we can invoke "Kitty Privilege". "Kitty Privilege" can be declared whenever one cannot move without disturbing a cat and requires the other spouse to do the necessary legwork to fetch a drink, snacks, etc. With TK, I've been getting the short end of the stick since his favorite sleeping spot is between my wife's legs with his head on her thigh. He'll actually crawl up on her legs and give her a nip if she doesn't spread them quickly enough. A technique that I've been blamed for teaching him, BTW. This has spawned another term around here. "Looks like you've got a serious case of "Crotch Kitty" there, Babe"
Charlie Wilkes - 21 Jan 2007 09:01 GMT > I have never had any bloke say to me "it's me or the cat" (i do not > think they would dare, they know what response they would get) but I > have had one or two incredibly stupid chaps come out with "if you go > rowing again in the morning, then that's it; we're finished!". That makes no sense. Why in the world would anyone object to your rowing?
I would think you might find a male rower who can float your boat.
Charlie
bookie - 21 Jan 2007 19:39 GMT > > I have never had any bloke say to me "it's me or the cat" (i do not > > think they would dare, they know what response they would get) but I > > have had one or two incredibly stupid chaps come out with "if you go > > rowing again in the morning, then that's it; we're finished!". > > That makes no sense. Why in the world would anyone object to your rowing? because it does take up a lot of time, early morning starts mean having to go to bed early to SLEEP, most men do not like it purely because it means that your life does not revolve around them and because when you are competing you have to be 'selfish' in a way and take good care of yourself so you are at peak form all the time. days when you are competing at either regattas (side by side racing mainly inthe summer) or heads (long distance time trials in the winter) are usually a write off and you don't really do anything else except sit by a river bank or lake waiting to race, chilling out with the newspaper and eating your picnic until your race is up, and then everything has to revolve around you and you cannot spend your time entertaining some lazy-arse bloke and making sure he has a cup of tea or something to eat as you have to focus on your racing that day. Then when you get home all you want to do is go out for beers with crewmates to celebrate or commiserate and talk endlessly about the racing that day, which of course has not really included said bloke (who probably spent the whle day whinging about how bored he was) and so he cannot really contribute and can't be the centre of attention as most chaps always feel the need to be.
most men are just little little children really, sorry to sound so anti-men but it really is true, they really hate it when they are not in the limelight and the focus is not on them, and in my sport if you want to win you have to be totally selfish about yourself and have yourself and your success as your main priority. i have not yet met a man who can put up with that one.
> I would think you might find a male rower who can float your boat. that is an idea, have done so in the past, although the last could not deal with it when i won races and did better than he did and would walk off in a strop cos i wasn't paying him enough attention, again that 'little child' mentality. I think most men would rather have a gormless pointless brain dead doll on their arm than someone who actually does something with their spare time apart from shop and get their nails done, so therefore i can do without them.
Jessie on the other hand has never complained about me going rowing, as long as breakfast is served before I go in the morning and I get back in time to serve dinner she is ok with it.
bookie
Charlie Wilkes - 22 Jan 2007 02:00 GMT > 'little child' mentality. I think most men would rather have a gormless > pointless brain dead doll on their arm than someone who actually does > something with their spare time apart from shop and get their nails > done, so therefore i can do without them. Well, there you go. You're probably better off staying single.
When you strip away the cultural self-deception of our corny little middle-class worlds, you're left with a reality that is stark and not too pleasant, i.e, the main thing men want from women is sex, and the main thing women want from men is money. I'm sure you are as tired of horny lugs as I am of sneaky women who want to move into my house and take over my life & bank acct. in exchange for sex and cooking. I'm old enough so I have learned to cook for myself and can do without sex, and frankly it's a comfortable place to be.
Charlie
bookie - 22 Jan 2007 16:01 GMT > > 'little child' mentality. I think most men would rather have a gormless > > pointless brain dead doll on their arm than someone who actually does [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > have learned to cook for myself and can do without sex, and frankly it's a > comfortable place to be. i agree, although i just want a husband so we can combine salaries so i might have a slight chance of one day getting a mortgage in order to buy a house (house prices in the UK are horrendous, especially so imy area, the south east) other than i dont' need a man at all and certainly do not need one to validate my existence as so many females seem to. I get my love and companionship from my friends and my cats
i used to think that 'men use love to get sex and women use sex to get love' but i would like to revise that last part to 'women use sex to get a house and financial security', sad but true.
Charlie Wilkes - 23 Jan 2007 01:17 GMT >> > 'little child' mentality. I think most men would rather have a >> > gormless pointless brain dead doll on their arm than someone who [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > love' but i would like to revise that last part to 'women use sex to get > a house and financial security', sad but true. Yeah. It's been like that since people lived in caves. The more advanced a society becomes, the more artfully it conceals the underlying nature of the contract between man & woman.
But of course it's not quite that simple. Besides money, or "financial security," the other thing women usually seem to want is children. You haven't mentioned that element of the conjugal equation.
Charlie
Lynne - 23 Jan 2007 03:45 GMT On Jan 22, 8:17 pm, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> wrote:
> But of course it's not quite that simple. Besides money, or "financial > security," the other thing women usually seem to want is children. You > haven't mentioned that element of the conjugal equation. Just remember that some of us have evolved beyond these classic roles. I have always been the main provider for my family and I know quite a few intelligent, independent women who are as well. Some of us choose our mates for companionship, fun, and, yes, sex (which is part of "fun" in my book, but I thought I'd clarify).
Rhonda - 23 Jan 2007 08:35 GMT > Yeah. It's been like that since people lived in caves. The more advanced > a society becomes, the more artfully it conceals the underlying nature of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > security," the other thing women usually seem to want is children. You > haven't mentioned that element of the conjugal equation. Well, men are wired to spread their oats -- have as many offspring as possible to carry on their genes, which equates to have a lot of sex.
Women can only have a few kids, so they're wired to find the mate who can protect the child and bring it up to adulthood. Today, that has turned into financial security instead of looking for a guy who can club a wart-hog and bring it home for dinner.
Rhonda
bookie - 23 Jan 2007 14:23 GMT > > Yeah. It's been like that since people lived in caves. The more advanced > > a society becomes, the more artfully it conceals the underlying nature of [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > turned into financial security instead of looking for a guy who can club > a wart-hog and bring it home for dinner. got it in one! have you ever read 'the naked ape' by desmond morris? talks about just that
> Rhonda Rhonda - 23 Jan 2007 17:00 GMT >>>Yeah. It's been like that since people lived in caves. The more advanced >>>a society becomes, the more artfully it conceals the underlying nature of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > got it in one! have you ever read 'the naked ape' by desmond morris? > talks about just that No, I've never read that book, but we did talk about it (the wiring, not the book) in a class that I took.
I'll have to check that one out. You have to be in the right mood though to put down the People magazine and read that kind of thing.
Rhonda
bookie - 23 Jan 2007 18:24 GMT > >>>Yeah. It's been like that since people lived in caves. The more advanced > >>>a society becomes, the more artfully it conceals the underlying nature of [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > I'll have to check that one out. You have to be in the right mood though > to put down the People magazine and read that kind of thing. it is not a big/long book, my copy is in paperback, probably about the length of a small novel, gives all sort sof insights into why we humans do the weird things we do and explains a lot of our behaviour of today in terms of what we needed to do as prehistoric beings in order to survive and procreate and pass on our genes. All in really accessible language too, not airy fairy highbrow language at all (I would not read it otherwise), i really recommend it.
go and buy it, go on, go now!!!
bookie - 23 Jan 2007 14:21 GMT > >> > 'little child' mentality. I think most men would rather have a > >> > gormless pointless brain dead doll on their arm than someone who [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > security," the other thing women usually seem to want is children. You > haven't mentioned that element of the conjugal equation. cos I hate kids, can't bear the idea of getting or being pregnant, have no desire to put myself through the agonies of giving birth, find all kids repulsive, and i think that there are more than enough kids in thw world as it is without adding to the problem.
much prefer cats, i just want a husband who will provide me with a nice house in which I can live with lots of cats, preferbaly abandoned or rescued ones, maybe set up my own cat sanctuary for retired pusses. what on earth would I want kids around for to mess things up?
Charlie Wilkes - 24 Jan 2007 01:34 GMT >> >> > 'little child' mentality. I think most men would rather have a >> >> > gormless pointless brain dead doll on their arm than someone who [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > rescued ones, maybe set up my own cat sanctuary for retired pusses. what > on earth would I want kids around for to mess things up? Well, it simplifies matters if you don't want kids. Good luck trading sex for housing.
Charlie
Nomen Nescio - 24 Jan 2007 06:30 GMT -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wilkes@users.easynews.com>
>Good luck trading sex >for housing. LOL Just what this group needs......ANOTHER angry bitch who thinks her pussy was cast in solid gold.
Charlie Wilkes - 24 Jan 2007 08:56 GMT > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Just what this group needs......ANOTHER angry bitch who thinks her pussy > was cast in solid gold. She is indeed a cauldron of fury. But I give her high marks for her candor.
Charlie
bookie - 24 Jan 2007 18:54 GMT On 24 Jan, 08:56, Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wil...@users.easynews.com> wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Charlie ha ha, i am far too old to be angry anymore, I am just resigned to the way the world works now and accept it. I am certainly not going tobe trading sex for housing, I woudl only have to do that if iw ere to stay in tecahing and put up with it's lousy salaries, but i am getting out and aiming for a better job so i can buy my own roof over my head,
I don't particularly want to be beholden to anyone for my shelter, male or female
Charlie Wilkes - 25 Jan 2007 01:58 GMT > ha ha, i am far too old to be angry anymore, I am just resigned to the > way the world works now and accept it. I am certainly not going tobe [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I don't particularly want to be beholden to anyone for my shelter, male > or female Hmmm. As soon as I praise your candor, you begin to backpeddle and dissemble. That will teach me not to stick my neck out.
Charlie
Lesley - 21 Jan 2007 12:07 GMT I
> have had one or two incredibly stupid chaps come out with "if you go > rowing again in the morning, then that's it; we're finished" Very stupid chaps indeed!
I have a hobby that I take as seriously as you do rowing through at least mine doesn't demand I get up early (Not often anyway- occasionally for conventions) and Dave has long since learnt to live with it. If he asked me to stop gaming then he knows I'd tell him where to get off. Even over the last few months while he's been in hospital I have missed maybe 2-3 sessions and I play twice a week, at the moment I am refereeing once a week and Dave quite placidly lets me leave the hospital early so my players don't have to wait about for me to start- he knows I'd get narked otherwise
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
bookie - 21 Jan 2007 19:40 GMT > I > > have had one or two incredibly stupid chaps come out with "if you go [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Slave of the Fabulous Furballs whats gaming? never heard of it
Lesley - 23 Jan 2007 00:26 GMT >> whats gaming? never heard of it Table top (and sometimes live action) role playing games. Okay it's not as physical as rowing but it demands the same amount of dedication
For example I am currently refeering a game and have to spend ages working on the game (a rough rule is a 3 hour session should take at least 3 hours to prepare- often takes longer). Doing the odd bits of paperwork that comes with putting the refs hat on. Studying rules, researching information (the game I run has 100+ books so even finding the relevant fact is a big job!) then playing on a Tuesday, being the ref on Thursday, getting to conventions, being the treasurer of my local games club so commitee meetings etc (where my main role appears to be allowing the chairman to vent afterwards), running one day games. Like anything else it's a hobby and keeps me sane but it does take a lot of time and effort all of which I do enjoy, it's a creative outlet for me
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
bookie - 23 Jan 2007 01:14 GMT > >> whats gaming? never heard of it > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Slave of the Fabulous Furballs so is it like recreating historic battles or have I got that completely wrong? i thought it might be running race nights or possibly something liek bingo, i coudn't have been further away could I?
anything if you want to do it properly and to the highest level and be the best at it that you can possibly be takes an awful lot of your time, energy and commitment. Those really dedicated souls who are successful at some particular sport or hobby are those who will find the extra time required to spend on it and who are focussed, committed and don't take 'no' for an answer. These people are happy to expend vast quantites of energy on their chosen pastime or cause and really immerse themselves into and when partners do not have the same mind set then this can be when problems start in relationships as i have found myself.
personally i do not get even half as much out of a relationship with a chap as i do out of my sport or my cat, never have done, so I don't waste any of my precious energy on chaps anymore, they are mostly a complete drain on my resources and are not really worth the aggro.
don't know what i have eaten but my stomach's in a an awful way. also have a burst blood vessel in my eye and so i look like a freak now with one huge glowing red eyeball super
Lesley - 20 Jan 2007 13:57 GMT If you
> really love someone then you love what comes with them You got it in one! My partner's been in hospital for 17 weeks and I haven't missed a day visiting him because if you love someone that's what you do.You take all the sh*t and believe me this has not been easy because you love someone and what comes with them
btw his main reason to get out is so he can reconnect with our Furballs
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
cybercat - 20 Jan 2007 01:13 GMT > (singsong) > I'm tellin' 'ya Dog ... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > (I bet the female lurkers on this forum are loving this!!) > I'm done. Hey, I don't trust people who value inanimate objects more than cute fuzzies. I say ditch the wife and let her take the couch with her!
Nomen Nescio - 23 Jan 2007 20:50 GMT -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
From: "Phil P." <phil@maxshouse.com>
>There are millions of women who would love to >meet a man who loves cats cares so deeply about their welfare. Just go to >any pet store on a Saturday! You can trust me on that! Shhhh. That's supposed to be a secret.
AZ Nomad - 18 Jan 2007 21:38 GMT >I already trained the cats to use a scratching post. They don't scratch the >leather sofa on purpose.
>I ordered SoftPaws and am expecting them to show up today. I am a little >wary of them for a couple reasons. Plastic can do a pretty good job of >scratching leather too for one thing.
>Not to shift blame, but my spouse is far less understanding about cat >damage than I am.
>A ruined sofa is going to do a lot to stress my marriage. It's really very simple. Get rid of the expensive furniture, the cat, or your spouse.
In reality, quit being so f.cking anal about the furniture and understand that it is going to take some wear and tear from their being animals (you and your wife included) in the house.
vamichael@gmail.com - 20 Jan 2007 03:27 GMT If you declaw your cat, cut your wife's clit off as well.
Fair is far.
> I already trained the cats to use a scratching post. They don't scratch the > leather sofa on purpose. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Softpaws > > Train your cat to use a cat scratching post Edna Pearl - 18 Jan 2007 19:19 GMT There is no humane way to de-claw a cat. Learn to trim your cat's claws, provide adequate scratchposts and scratchpads, and train the cat.
ep
> Although I am against it, a new and rather expensive leather sofa has > raised the possibility of declawing my 3 cats. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > If I keep my cats nails trimmed short will they still be able to > (unintentionally) damage my leather sofa? MoMo - 18 Jan 2007 23:54 GMT I also tend to just keep my furniture covered unless I am having company over. Keep in mind, that declawing cats was actually made illegal in California just to show you what a terrible and mutilating procedure that it is. Please rethink declawing your cat. I know when I was really little, and this sounds terrible, I used to actually chew on my parents wood furniture. Should my parents of had my teeth pulled to prevent me from doing this?
>There is no humane way to de-claw a cat. Learn to trim your cat's claws, >provide adequate scratchposts and scratchpads, and train the cat. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> If I keep my cats nails trimmed short will they still be able to >> (unintentionally) damage my leather sofa? Rhonda - 19 Jan 2007 00:07 GMT > I know when I was really little, and this sounds > terrible, I used to actually chew on my parents wood furniture. Should my > parents of had my teeth pulled to prevent me from doing this? Hmmm, maybe that would have worked - ha! Did your parents ever consider taking you to the vet? I'll bet Feliway would have helped.
Rhonda
eDog - 19 Jan 2007 04:38 GMT My parents used electric shocks.
> Should my > parents of had my teeth pulled to prevent me from doing this?
 Signature Looking for a clue.
AZ Nomad - 19 Jan 2007 04:43 GMT >My parents used electric shocks. unfortunately, you lived.
Rhonda - 19 Jan 2007 05:59 GMT >>My parents used electric shocks. > > unfortunately, you lived. Wow, where did you study the art of persuasion? Ask for a refund.
Rhonda
MaryL - 18 Jan 2007 23:55 GMT > Although I am against it, a new and rather expensive leather sofa has > raised the possibility of declawing my 3 cats. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > If I keep my cats nails trimmed short will they still be able to > (unintentionally) damage my leather sofa? There is *no* "better way" to declaw a cat. Any method of declawing results in the same situation -- that is, you have just performed amputation, a cruel and unnecessary procedure. Worst of all would be to declaw all four paws (which you are considering). That compounds problems such as lack of muscle control and possible early onset of arthritis. Ironically, you may also cause an even worse problem *for yourself* than scratches on furniture. That is, approximately 1/3 of declawed cats begin to urinate outside the litterbox. How will you feel if you begin to find fresh urine in your bed or on your carpets?
Your selection of the leather sofa was probably a poor choice, but it is done now. From your description, it does not sound as if your cats are using the sofa as a scratching post. Instead, it appears that their claws leave marks because they need some traction. You can help to reduce this problem if you look for an attractive (but sturdy) cover that you can wrap around the cushions.
Whatever you do, please *do not* let your husband talk you into declawing the cats. Think of it this way. If you had small children who damaged your furniture, would you consider cutting off their fingers to the first knuckle? Well, of course not! The very suggestion is outrageous. But that is what you would actually doing to these helpless kitties. They are part of your family, and they rely on you to love them and provide *good* care.
I would like to include a short quotation from a message that Lauren posted some time ago: "Cats can develop declaw related problems years later, like developing arthritis, muscle atrophy and nerve pain. A declawed cat is much like someone who is clubfooted. Since a cat is digitigrade, meaning walking on tip toes, the cat can't walk normally with his weight back on the rear of his pads. His posture is changed and his gait is now off. Cats use their claws as a means of communication, much like we use our voices. A declawed cat is much like a person without a larynx...."
Here are some web sites that look at the issue of declawing. Please share some of this information with your husband: http://www.stopdeclaw.com http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/declaw.html http://www.cara-adopt.org/declaw.html http://declaw.lisaviolet.com/declawvettch.html http://www.maxshouse.com/facts_about_declawing.htm http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=002
MaryL
Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e
eDog - 19 Jan 2007 04:28 GMT I'm the husband.
The cats are my buddies.
> Whatever you do, please *do not* let your husband talk you into > declawing the cats.
 Signature Looking for a clue.
MaryL - 19 Jan 2007 09:06 GMT Yes, I realized after I sent the message that I should have asked you not to let your wife (not your "husband") talk you into declawing. Please, though, do not give in on this point. I had a cat that was declawed on all four paws. She was declawed before I adopted her, then the people who had the procedure done decided they could not keep her indoors because they were expecting another baby and did not have room for the cat. Amber was truly a little angel -- one of the dearest, sweetest little cats a person could ever hope for. She compensated very well for the loss of her claws, but she never did have the same balance and agility as all of my other cats have had. She obviously could not climb like they can, but she also did not have the same type of balance when she would jump up onto the arm of a chair or other similar objects. As she got older, she started to urinate outside the litter box, and she stopped covering feces in the box. I finally realized that it was probably painful for her to scratch in the litter box. I switched to the very softest litter I could find. That helped for awhile, then she went back to urinating on the carpet. It was not a medical (other than paws) or behavioral issue -- she would go to the same spot each time, and I am sure it was because of pain in her feet that had developed because of early arthritis. For awhile, I would cover that spot, but then she would locate another spot. Finally, I just accepted it and cleaned that area as best I could. After she died, I had the area of carpet and padding removed and sealed the concrete underneath before replacing the carpet. We even had to remove a section of tack strip because the urine had soaked into the wood.
My point with this is that you could eventually face something far worse than scratches on the sofa. Amber was not misbehaving, and I did not treat it as such -- she was reacting to pain. But what would your wife do if she were faced with some of the negative effects that are often seen in declawed cats, such as inappropriate urination or biting? That does not even begin to address the question of how unfair it is to the *cat* to amputate, but I am concentrating instead on how *people* will react. I certainly do not claim that all declawed cats will have these characteristics. However, a much larger percentage of declawed than clawed cats do have these problems. Approximately 1/3 of declawed cats exhibit some of these characteristics -- not necessarily right away, but later on and at an earlier age than would normally be expected. I used to do volunteer work at the animal shelter, and there were *many* declawed cats that were dumped there because they had started to spray or urinate in the house, bite, etc.
-- MaryL
MaryL
> I'm the husband. > > The cats are my buddies. > >> Whatever you do, please *do not* let your husband talk you into >> declawing the cats. eDog - 19 Jan 2007 16:35 GMT Now that you mention it, I am reminded of a cat that my mother had which developed issues with the litter box later in life. The problem seemed to start when another cat was brought into the house. This cat bullied my mothers cat and would attack her when she was in the litter box.
But now that I think about it, even when the cats were finally separated "Cassandra" would still bolt out of the litter box in a sort of panic without burying her business. Perhaps it was an issue of pain in the claws. But in her case I think it was more likely an exagerated fear of being caught making feces by a predator or bully.
I know my cats will miss their claws if they are declawed. They have a 30 inch scratching post which they love to climb upon and man handle with all fours. It will break my heart every time I see that they are no longer able to do this.
As I said in another post in this thread, I tried to find leather that would hold up under minor scratching much as another piece of leather furniture I own does. Unfortunately I failed in this. I also was unable to steer the missus to a cheaper sofa.
Now I am faced with the delemma that if my wife feels she can never have anything nice because of the cats, she will become UNHAPPY.
If I am to save the cats claws I am going to have to find a way to touch up the surface scratches, make a visible effort with the soft paws and convince my wife that she is not going to have to live with a sofa that is under a blanket 24/7/365.
It feels like a long shot.
> Yes, I realized after I sent the message that I should have asked you > not to let your wife (not your "husband") talk you into declawing. > Please, though,
 Signature Looking for a clue.
-L. - 19 Jan 2007 19:00 GMT > Now that you mention it, I am reminded of a cat that my mother had which > developed issues with the litter box later in life. The problem seemed to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I know my cats will miss their claws if they are declawed. It's not a matter of them "missing" their claws - it's a matter of them becoming maimed. Declawing removes the last section of the toe - not just the claw. 4-paw declawing is so cruel most vets won't even do it. Also, your cats are likely to become biters and urinate inappropriately once they are declawed. Those are the two most common after effects of declawing. If wifey doesn't like scratched furniture you can be assured she won't like pee-soaked furniture any better.
Here are some reports of problems assocated with declawing (from one of my old posts):
> 1. "Four percent of the cats began to defecate out of box and > 12% began to bite after onychectomy." > ref: Bennett M, Houpt KA, Erb HN. Effects of declawing on feline > behavior. Comp Anim Pract 1988;2:7-12.
> 2. Retrospective survey of 887 cat owners from private practices. > Clients were asked to fill out a survey on the incidence of aggressive [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ref: Borchelt PL, Voith VL. Aggressive behavior in cats. Compend > Contin Educ Pract Vet 1987;9:49-57.
> 3. "Twenty four percent of the cats had short-term postoperative > complications including, two hemorrhage, one infection, and one change [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > elective tenectomy or onychectomy in cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc > 1998;213:370-373.
> 4. Retrospective written survey of private practice clients. Owners > reported that "34% had discomfort post-surgically, primarily [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ref: Landsberg GM. Cat owners'; attitudes toward declawing. > Anthrozoos 1991;4:192-197
> 5. Retrospective mail survey of veterinarians. 320/400 returned > questionnaires. "78.4% of the vets did not advocate declawing. 47% [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ref: Landsberg GM. Declawing is controversial but saves pets. A > veterinarian survey. Vet Forum 1991;8:66-67.
> 6. Assessment of complications seven days and six months post-surgery, > in a clinical setting. Two techniques for onychectomy and two [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > onychectomy in cats and two adhesives for wound closure. Vet Med 1993; > 88:516-525.
> 7. Cross sectional internet survey. "19.6% cats in the study were > declawed. Complication rates after declawing were not reported. > Declawed cats showed more house soiling (25%)." > ref: Morgan M, Houpt KA. Feline behavior problems: the influence of > declawing. Anthrozoos 1989;3:50-53.
> 8. Case-control study of owned and relinquished cats involving a > random digit dial (phone) survey of cat owners. "Prevalence of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > relinquishment of cats to an animal shelter. J Am Vet Med Assoc > 1996;209:582-588.
> 9. Retrospective phone follow-up of clients. "39/98 owners whose cats > underwent elective onychectomy or tendonectomy were contacted two [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > regarding tendonectomy and onychectomy in cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc > 2001;218:43-47. And more:
> 1. Veterinary Surgery Journal: > 50% post surgical complication rate (Vet Surg 1994 > Jul-Aug;23(4):274-80)
> 2. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association: > 19.8% long-term complication rate (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1998 Aug > 1;213(3):370-3) > "high complication rate for [declawing]" (J Am Vet Med Assoc 1998 > Aug 1;213(3):370-3)
> Declawing is 100% preventable. "The most common reason for considering > declawing is to avoid damage caused by the cat scratching household > materials", which can be dealth with by less invasive measures (J Am > Vet Med Assoc 2001 Jan 1;218(1):43-7)
> 3. World Small Animal Veterinary Association - 2001: > Greater incidence of inappropriate elimination problems: More > "(52.4%) declawed cats than non-declawed cats (29.1%) were reported by > owners to have inappropriate elimination problems."
> Greater incidence of long-term behavior problems : > "(33%) developed at least one behavior problem." [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > purposes, > in particular; d. Declawing and defanging."
> 4. Canadian Veterinary Journal: > Declawing puts cats at risk for leg fracture (Can Vet J 1998 > Jun;39(6):337-8) And, that's just the tip of the iceberg. Furthermore, The Association of Veterinarians for Animal Rights, a group of over *60,000* veterinarians are completely against declawing unless there is a medical issue (avulsued nail, etc.). In addition, there are many, many lisenced veterinarians who have spoken out against declawing in public forums and published journals. The Cat Fancier's assosciation is against declawing. I can provide references for unsubstantiated statements in this paragraph, if anyone is interested.
We (multiple posters) have posted numerous ways to curb scratching behavior and redirect it to appropriate scratching surfaces. The links provided in this thread provide multiple soultions. If you have not found them yet, you either don't care or don't read very carefully. So, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and list a few here (off the top of my head):
1. Sticky Paws 2. Frequent nail trims 3. SoftPaws 4. Feliaway 5. Large, substantial cat trees/posts that have multiple scratching surfaces available 6. Catnip on the trees, above 7. Throw rugs turned inside-out, and rolled up and secured, which serve as scratching toys 8. Turbo mouse scratching pad
The scenarios/solutions are endless.
http://www.stopdeclaw.com, http://www.catscratching.com/, and http://www.maxshouse.com have many solutions.
Declawing is the lazy person's way of dealing with scratching "problems". With a little effort on the part of the owner, cats can be trained to scratch appropriately, and/or scratching can be made into a non-issue. But one must be motivated to make these methods work, and not simply say "he won't use the post, I'll declaw him". That is the coward's solution.
>They have a 30 > inch scratching post which they love to climb upon and man handle with > all fours. It will break my heart every time I see that they are no > longer able to do this. Well then tell your wife to get over her fixation on the material. Sheesh! A 30 inch scratching post isn't sufficient. Multiple cats in a househole require a cat TREE with multiple, different scratching surfaces.
> As I said in another post in this thread, I tried to find leather that > would hold up under minor scratching much as another piece of leather > furniture I own does. Unfortunately I failed in this. I also was unable > to steer the missus to a cheaper sofa. So you knowingly bought a piece of furniture that the cats would damage, and now you are whining that the cats are damaging it. Not real bright. Put your foot down and stand up to your wife. Declawing is NOT a solution.
> Now I am faced with the delemma that if my wife feels she can never have > anything nice because of the cats, she will become UNHAPPY. Too bad. You should have put your foot down when wifey insisted on furniture that the cats could ruin.
> If I am to save the cats claws I am going to have to find a way to touch > up the surface scratches, make a visible effort with the soft paws and > convince my wife that she is not going to have to live with a sofa that > is under a blanket 24/7/365. > > It feels like a long shot. Buy a cat TREE, and some Sticky Paws, trim the cat's nails, follow the links I provided and find a solution. Do not declaw your cats - it's barbaric and inhumane. And if that fails (which it won't if you are persistent) tell wifey to get over it. Maiming another being for aesthetics is unconscionable - a fact you already know but won't admit.
-L.
eDog - 19 Jan 2007 21:28 GMT If I were *personally* in favor of declawing my cats, I would have already done so.
I have been doing nothing but reading websites about cats and their claws for the last three days. I trust very few of the sites. They are all reading off the exact same set of "quotes" like the talking points on Sunday morning TV.
I am leaning against declawing the cats because I think that even if I assumed a front declaw was something they would "get over", and it probably is, a four paw declaw is really tempting fate that something will go wrong.
I didn't get these cats so I could hurt them. I got them so I could pamper them and make them the happiest luckiest cats I know of.
By simply owning a cat in an apartment which you never let outside of the house (like I can't) you are asking an awful lot from it. Over time the cat will become less active and give up hunting for luxuriating around the house. It will trade darwinian stresses for security and boredom.."a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage" so to speak.
Nobody ever asked them if that's the choice they wanted to make.
At least we humans can blame Pink Floyd.
And I do hope you are a vegan and that your cats are vegans too.
There is probably more animal cruelty in every chicken breast than there is in a typical declawing operation on a cat.
"-L." <MonkeySnaps@gmail.com> wrote in news:1169233234.073470.286300@ 11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com:
> Declawing removes the last section of the toe - not > just the claw. -
Lynne - 19 Jan 2007 21:58 GMT > I am leaning against declawing the cats because I think that even if I > assumed a front declaw was something they would "get over", and it > probably is, a four paw declaw is really tempting fate that something > will go wrong. It would be far kinder to rehome your cats.
<snip>
> And I do hope you are a vegan and that your cats are vegans too. While I am a vegetarian, I hope you are not depriving your cats of a meat-based diet. Cats are TRUE carnivores and that would be cruel to them AND unhealthy.
> There is probably more animal cruelty in every chicken breast than > there is in a typical declawing operation on a cat. One has nothing to do with the other. Factory farming is a huge industry in this country. I abhor factory farming and do not buy factory farmed products, but that is a choice I can afford to make. It is also a luxury and not everyone has that option.
Declawing, on the other hand, is a barbaric mutilation that, as a thinking person, you should not even be considering having done to these cats you proclaim to love.
 Signature Lynne
-L. - 19 Jan 2007 22:39 GMT > If I were *personally* in favor of declawing my cats, I would have > already done so. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > probably is, a four paw declaw is really tempting fate that something > will go wrong. The thing is, you just don't know if your cats will be one of the ones with long-term issues or not. That's the crapshoot of declawing. I used to be a vet tech. I wasn't against declawing - I wouldn't do it to my own cats but had friends who had declawed cats and didn't think much of it. My experiences working for a feline specialty hospital changed my mind completely. I assisted in the surgeries, I did aftercare and I saw the cats that came in with complications - some many years later. We were a surgery specialty hospital and so we would get referral cases of cats with problems. No way would I ever advocate declawing now. Almost every cat we treated, boarded or groomed that was declawed was a biter.
> I didn't get these cats so I could hurt them. I got them so I could > pamper them and make them the happiest luckiest cats I know of. Great! Then don't declaw.
> By simply owning a cat in an apartment which you never let outside of the > house (like I can't) you are asking an awful lot from it. Over time the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Nobody ever asked them if that's the choice they wanted to make. That's right. Indentured servitude. I'm not really an advocate for keeping companion animals but I do - I can't help myself. ;). If you must, rescue.
> At least we humans can blame Pink Floyd. > > And I do hope you are a vegan and that your cats are vegans too. Of course they aren't - cats are obligate carnivores. Meat eatintg isn't the issue we are discussing here - comparing partial digital amputation for the luxury of owning material goods to meat eating for sustenance is ridiculous. Humans are omnivores and thus eat other animals. It's how those animals are treated, how they are killed and how they are respected that matters. And for what it's worth, I advocate humane practices for all species - always have and always will.
> There is probably more animal cruelty in every chicken breast than there > is in a typical declawing operation on a cat. If you are talking about factory-farmed chickens, I agree. But I don't eat factory-farmed meat. In fact, I go to great lengths to secure meat that I know is raised and killed humanely, for the little meat I do consume. You are preaching to the Pope, sweetheart.
-L.
William Hamblen - 19 Jan 2007 23:23 GMT >Almost every cat we treated, boarded or groomed that >was declawed was a biter. A pet groomer on the cable TV program "Dirty Jobs" said much the same: declawed cats were less well behaved. Anyhow, leather furniture shines the seat of your trousers.
Bud
 Signature The night is just the shadow of the Earth.
eDog - 20 Jan 2007 06:52 GMT In my case that's the thing. Three cats is 60 toenails. The vet seemed a little hungry for the work and I could imagine toenail number 49 getting a little shortchanged as far as attention goes.
I don't want one of my three cats to be a statistic. Not without good reason, like I have exhausted all other avenues in order to live with the cat.
"-L." <MonkeySnaps@gmail.com> wrote in news:1169246383.718828.70550 @m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
> The thing is, you just don't know if your cats will be one of the ones > with long-term issues or not. That's the crapshoot of declawing. I > used to be a vet tech. MaryL - 19 Jan 2007 22:00 GMT > Now that you mention it, I am reminded of a cat that my mother had which > developed issues with the litter box later in life. The problem seemed to [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> not to let your wife (not your "husband") talk you into declawing. >> Please, though, Lyn (-L) has written an excellent message describing some of the detrimental effects of declawing. Please let me address your wife's desire to have nice furniture. I, also, like to have nice furniture. I value my cats far more than I value my furniture, but I realize that in your case we must talk about how your wife can have nice furniture and also permit your cats to have a normal life *with* claws.
Please look at some of my pictures in the links under my sig. I think you will find that I have nice furniture. I have some antiques that still look beautiful, and I have some new pieces that have absolutely no damage. Moreover, my cats are free to use any furniture in the house -- they lie on it, play on it, climb on it, etc., and they *have not damaged* anything. They are very good about using scratching posts, and they do not use my furniture as scratchers. However, you have indicated that your cats also do not deliberately scratch your furniture. The problem seems to be, quite simply, that your selection of furniture was inappropriate for cats with claws. Obviously, your cats need a surface that provides some traction when they climb or jump onto furniture.
You can solve this problem if you do one of the following: (1) Simply place cushions or a decorative throw over the leather sofa. This can be something that looks very nice. If you look in some designer catalogs, you will see that this effect is something that many people deliberately create for the artistic effect. (2) Or...Replace the leather sofa with a sofa that is more suitable for claws. Many people are able to use leather, but I personally think fabric is better. Look for fabric that is tightly woven and will not "pull" or "catch" as your cats jump or climb on the furniture. Have it treated for soil-resistant application (similar to Scotch Guard, but good furniture stores have a product that is longer-lasting.) Truly, it is possible to have the beautiful furniture your wife desires and *also* preserve your cats' claws.
Incidentally, my cats are indoor-only, just as you describe. Give them lots of toys and attention, good food, scratching posts (which you already have), and a very sturdy cat tree for climbing. They will be happy! One of my cats (Duffy, the gray and white cat in the pictures) is blind, and he is able to reach the most remarkable sites -- and yet he never damages anything. So, it can be done.
MaryL
Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e
Lynne - 19 Jan 2007 22:04 GMT on Fri, 19 Jan 2007 22:00:08 GMT, "MaryL" <stancole1@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> wrote:
> Or...Replace the leather sofa with a sofa that is more > suitable for claws. Many people are able to use leather, but I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Scotch Guard, but good furniture stores have a product that is > longer-lasting.) You know, this isn't a bad idea. Getting 3 cats declawed (god it makes me sick just saying that) will cost nearly as much as a new sofa. Building on what the other poster said about complaining to the mfg, I'd get Ethan Allen to recover or replace the sofas--even if an upgrade fee is charged.
 Signature Lynne
eDog - 20 Jan 2007 06:48 GMT I already called Ethan Allen.
I don't know how much they will do with regard to an upgrade.
My wife is going to present a bigger problem.
I'm inclined to work with the leather we already have and treat the scratches as they appear while protecting the leather in the most vulnerable spots.
My wife seems to eager to declaw the cats. I could have dealt with declawing the cats on the front claws if they were incorrigible, but they aren't.
> Building on > what the other poster said about complaining to the mfg, I'd get Ethan > Allen to recover or replace the sofas--even if an upgrade fee is charged.
 Signature Looking for a clue.
tracyrose@gmail.com - 20 Jan 2007 06:59 GMT Follow your instincts here. They're telling you the right thing - that declawing the cats is a really, really bad idea. Your marriage is your marriage, of course, but hey, sometimes spouses get ideas in their head that are just plain not going to cut it. Just tell the wife it isn't happening, you aren't going to rip the cats toes off and it's not up for discussion. You're not interested in mutilating animals. It's illegal in most of Europe, you know and there's a reason for that.
She's got a problem - she's just going to have to find another way to solve it.
The cats stay, you like them, and they keep all the body parts God gave them.
> I already called Ethan Allen. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > charged.-- > Looking for a clue. -L. - 20 Jan 2007 07:52 GMT > Follow your instincts here. They're telling you the right thing - that > declawing [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > She's got a problem - she's just going to have to find another way to > solve it. I suspect she'll throw a tantrum, withold sex and eventually get over it. It's just a couch, FFS.
-L.
cybercat - 20 Jan 2007 20:06 GMT > My wife seems to eager to declaw the cats. ahh, Gad, I am so sorry. I sense you probably had no idea she was this type when you married her.
Watch out. I have noted that people who are eager to do cruelties to animals are not slow to do them to people--as soon as they get the upper hand.
bookie - 19 Jan 2007 01:32 GMT > Although I am against it, a new and rather expensive leather sofa has > raised the possibility of declawing my 3 cats. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > -- DO NOT HAVE YOUR CATS DECLAWED, I REPEAT, DO NOT HAVE YOUR CATS DECLAWED.
for most people the fact thatit is cruel, nasty and barbaric woudl be enuogh to put them off the idea but you seem tobe someone who cares rathjer more about his furniture than the welfare of a living creature who loves you and has put their trust in you to protect them and care for them and to keep them safe from harm and not put them through unnecessary and painful mutilation (poor misguided creatures eh?), so i will use another argument.
Declawed cats will show some rather unpleasant behaviours after the op due to not being able to mark their territory, inability to communicate their presence to other cats, and possibly also ongoing pain after the amputations. These behaviours will include urinating around the house (to replace normal marking of their home), and also defaecating too in inappropriate places, they may also start to bite you as they are incapable of defending themselves with their now non-existent claws. since you don't want your kitties leavign marks on your obviously far more beloved furniture how will you feel about the same kitties coming back form the vets and peeing and pooing everywhere instead and possibly also becoming vicious little biters because their main line of defence (their claws) has been taken away from them? Will this argument convince you it is very bad idea indeed?
btw I have leather sofas, dark burgundy leather, and had 2 cats (just 1 now) and the one who passed away summer 2005 had been in a car accident we think and could not retract his back claws at all but he never seemed to scratch the sofas at all, not sure how he managed that but he did. Jessie is always on them, either perched on top looking out the back window into the garden or climbing on them or (most fun) trying to catch a pingpong ball or scrunchy ball on one (usually failing as with the slippery leather surface they just go flying as does she), and i can't see a mark on them.
christ if you are that bothered about your f*cking sofas then why do you not try to get your cats rehomed with someone who does put the priorities and needs of a living creature above that of an inanimate object. better they go to a new home than get mutilated for the sake of a sofa.
bookie
ps i live in a rented house, part furnished, the sofas are mine so i dont care what happens to them, the bed in my room came with the house though and therefore if it is damaged in anyway then I/we may well lose our deposit on the house if/when we move out. both jasper and jessie have ripped the covering on the side of the bed base (boxspring you call it in the states? not sure) to shreds, not much left to rip now, so unless I go out and purchase a new bed base for when we all move out and the place is inspected we will definitely lose the deposit. I reckon i will just be going out and buying a new double bed for the house when we go, simple as that, but to be honest i couldn't care less, it is no big deal, nobody has died have they? it is only a bloody bed.
I am sure some anal yank would probably have whipped both J and J off to be declawed ages ago to prevent further damage but to me life is just too f.cking short to get stressed out about furniture etc and as i said it is only a bloody bed. I would rather have happy cats able to do whatever comes naturally to them and a shredded bed base than miserable mutilated cats and pristine furniture anyday.
pps yes they have both had scratching posts, jasper ignored his, jessie loves hers, both go outside and scratch trees inthe garden, but they also liek a good scratch onthe side of the bed as it seems to get me out of bed inthe mornign and downstairs to serve breakfast quicker than normal methods
Buddy's Mom - 19 Jan 2007 01:39 GMT I would like to add this - about 50% of the cats that I have had in my 60-year lifetime have been declawed - shelter, etc. I have NEVER noticed the strange behaviors that everyone on this forum list. Just wanted to state that fact. I currently have a front declawed Maine Coon from the shelter - declawed before I got him at age 3 - who is the sweetest kitty I have ever had.
But I will restate that front declawing will not save the leather couch!
> > Although I am against it, a new and rather expensive leather sofa has > > raised the possibility of declawing my 3 cats. [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > out of bed inthe mornign and downstairs to serve breakfast quicker than > normal methods eDog - 19 Jan 2007 04:32 GMT That's the thing - front declawing won't save the couch and I find all fours declawing a little repulsive.
I am not the only voice in the house on this topic. The quicker I can get it to look under control the more likely I can save the cat claws.
I am considering getting a leather professional in here so I can find an ideal leather touch up product. I've seen (and bookmarked) a british product that is sort of like a shoe polish, but presumably doesn't rub off onto your clothes.
"Buddy's Mom" <armshome@aol.com> |
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