Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion GroupsGeneral TopicsCat AnecdotesHealth and BehaviorRescue
CatKB.com
Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map

Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / January 2007

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Female Improper Urinating... Wits' End...

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Smartin - 16 Jan 2007 23:54 GMT
We've had a tortie for most of her eight years of life. For most of that
time we've had a Siamese male as well. Over the last three years we've
taken in three strays, one of whom ran off last summer, leaving us with
four of the little dears. Two males, two females, ranging from two to
eight years old. The males are neutered, Frankie (the tortie) is spayed.
All of our cats are kept indoors as the neighborhood is dangerous on
account of traffic. We also have a Pekingese, who gets along famously
with all the cats. In fact, we think he believes he is a cat himself.

Frankie however has a most obnoxious habit of urinating in inappropriate
places. She prefers surfaces -- end tables, the top of the deep freezer,
the piano bench, window sills, etc., and anything that seems to be
"someone else's" on the floor. By the latter I mean things like dirty
laundry, a toy one of the other cats like (we can't have catnip in the
house in any form), a Christmas tree ornament that fell off, a piece of
paper, inside shoes, and more recently, on the kitchen counter.

Needless to say this is getting old, and we are at a loss of what to do
with her. This has been going on for years now. At times (such as last
summer when one of our refugees ran away) her habit subsides, but
invariably it ramps up again. It is now a daily occurrence, if not more
than that.

Aside from the Siamese, who is effectively her "brother", we believe she
is jealous of the others. I know I'm anthropomorphizing, but the
apparent explanation of her actions as retaliation are numerous. If one
of the young cats plays with a milk ring, the next morning it will be in
a puddle of piss. If one of the cats has a chase with her, we will find
a mess somewhere soon after.

I have read several websites that discuss the matter; we have ruled out
physiological problems. Litter boxes are plentiful and well maintained.
For cleansers we have tried enzyme cleaners etc., and although they do
help remove the odor they only temporarily stop her from reusing the
same spot on the floor, table, piano, freezer, etc. Although each of the
other cats has had a moment or two of inappropriate urination, we have
caught Frankie at this numerous times.

We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?

Signature

Smartin

Lynne - 17 Jan 2007 00:45 GMT
> We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?

I have always heard that there is a high rate of schizophrenia among
torties (& calicos).  I'm not sure if this is true, but I've certainly met
enough torties who were insane that I tend to believe it.

I'm not a proponent of throwing drugs at problems, but if there is a real
need, it may be worth looking into.  I wonder if there are any psychotropic
drugs that would help with the problem.  Phil?

Signature

Lynne

Smartin - 17 Jan 2007 01:29 GMT
>> We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?
>
> I have always heard that there is a high rate of schizophrenia among
> torties (& calicos).  I'm not sure if this is true, but I've certainly met
> enough torties who were insane that I tend to believe it.

Funny you should say that as we often remark on how she seems to be
hallucinating. She is still playful at her age. When she's in a mood,
her eyes become big as quarters before she pounces on objects present or
otherwise. She's not vicious in any way, but is definitely the loner of
the group, although she will curl up on the furniture with any of the
aforementioned pets.

> I'm not a proponent of throwing drugs at problems, but if there is a real
> need, it may be worth looking into.  I wonder if there are any psychotropic
> drugs that would help with the problem.  Phil?

I'm a little skittish of drugs, perhaps because I've only heard they
don't work, and I'm afraid of the expense. I'm willing to entertain
options though. We have kept her this long because we feel a
responsibility, having owned her since she was only four weeks.

Signature

Smartin

Cheryl - 17 Jan 2007 02:15 GMT
I apologize to the OP, but I don't have a suggestion to the problem
with your cats elimination issues, but I wanted to respond to
Lynne's post.

> I have always heard that there is a high rate of schizophrenia
> among torties (& calicos).  I'm not sure if this is true, but
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> are any psychotropic drugs that would help with the problem.
> Phil?

I don't write about this much because like you, I don't believe in
throwing drugs at a behavior problem, but there are exceptions as
you indicate. Shamrock is one of those.  He is the one of mine who
has severe allergy problems and has had skin lesions for the entire
5 years I've had him.  When steroid shots stopped working, and
allergy shots didn't really work at all (he'd been to a veterinary
dermatologist who recommended allergy shots) and there's no way to
elliminate the allergens in his environment (He was tested with the
grid-thing: pollen of many types, mold spores, dust mites, cat
dander, a few others) he's on Atopica which is working well, but
not completely getting rid of the itch.  He doesn't bite himself
bloody anymore, and his fur is completely grown back, so a few
itches isn't making him crazy now.  However, during his first
several years here, he was a mess. And I don't just mean
physically.  He has a screw loose. He used to attack my legs if I
walked past him and he was in "his mood".  I was actually afraid of
him sometimes. He terrorized one of my other cats, then he past
away, and he started terrorizing another of my cats, but he doesn't
do that to the two others. Now he is being terrorized by one of my
two year olds, and he reacts in such a strange way to being the
chasee instead of the chaser.  Anyway, he's on Clomipramide, or
Clomacalm (usually a dog drug for separation anxiety).  It's been
very successful for him after finding the right dose.  He isn't a
drugged up sleepy kitty at all, but he hasn't attacked my legs in a
couple of years now.  I tried to wean him off thinking he didn't
need it any more, but he reverted, and we had to start it up again,
so it might be for life.

Signature

Cheryl

Lynne - 17 Jan 2007 13:48 GMT
on Wed, 17 Jan 2007 02:15:43 GMT, Cheryl <jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com>
wrote:

> Anyway, he's on Clomipramide, or
> Clomacalm (usually a dog drug for separation anxiety).  It's been
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> need it any more, but he reverted, and we had to start it up again,
> so it might be for life.

Then I think Shamrock is a case where drugs are needed.  Being afraid of
your pet or otherwise unable to live with him puts his life at risk.  Once
all of the other likely resolutions have been unsucessfully tried, then I
think drugs are warranted.  You have nothing to feel guilty about IMO.  He
now has a good quality of life and so do you!  

Signature

Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

Phil P. - 17 Jan 2007 08:55 GMT
> > We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> need, it may be worth looking into.  I wonder if there are any psychotropic
> drugs that would help with the problem.  Phil?

Buspar -generic Buspirone. About the only drug that I know of that has
produced good results in cats with elimination problems.  It doesn't produce
the usual sedated/depressed side effects as other drugs used for this
purpose.

I think the problem is stress- but anything can stress Torties and Calicos-
they have the "demon gene".

No help here.
Lynne - 17 Jan 2007 13:50 GMT
> anything can stress Torties and Calicos-
> they have the "demon gene".

Ha ha!  That's a much nicer way to put it.

Signature

Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

maralisil - 17 Jan 2007 14:08 GMT
Are you able to give the problem cat a room/space of her own away from
the other cats? Some kitties just aren't "team players". They don't
care to socialize with others. I know a kitty at the shelter I visit
who makes a point of peeing on EVERY new cat bed and pillow in the
room. You should see the look on the other cats' faces when they want
to check out the "cozy" new bed! Poor Kitty!

I'm on the "chemistry for better living" crew, as it's better than
abandonment or euthanasia. Heck, a roomy cage would work it a single
room isn't available. Place it near a window.

Good luck to you all!
-L. - 21 Jan 2007 00:07 GMT
> Buspar -generic Buspirone. About the only drug that I know of that has
> produced good results in cats with elimination problems.

We used Elavil with great success.

-L.
Edna Pearl - 17 Jan 2007 01:11 GMT
All I can tell you is that my tortoiseshell does the same thing.  She's the
odd one out of my three cats -- the other two are littermates.  She's a
sweetheart, but she pees on laundry, as you say yours does, and doormats,
and the back door, and it does appear to be a territorial/ownership
behavior.  So we don't have any doormats and we lock up the laundry.  While
we were out of town for a couple of weeks over the holidays, she started
peeing on the kitchen mat, so that's been washed and put away, too.  This
particular cat is a very odd cat in many respects.  But it does seem to be
predictable that the more stressed or bored she is, the more she marks.

Another of my cats, a neutered black male, used to mark when he was a baby,
but I somehow managed to train him to stop, or he stopped on his own, years
ago.  (He recently developed OCD, though.  "Bald belly syndrome."  Licks the
hair off his tummy.)

I used to have a tortie who peed in houseplants -- that was the *worst*.

It's always something.

ep

> We've had a tortie for most of her eight years of life. For most of that
> time we've had a Siamese male as well. Over the last three years we've
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?
Smartin - 17 Jan 2007 01:33 GMT
Aaah, houseplants. I forgot to mention they have been a frequent target
of hers as well. And should a plant get upset onto the floor, we could
count on the dirt becoming soiled practically instantaneously.

She (thankfully) doesn't hit the rugs, at least not since we tore out
the living room carpet years ago. But any stray object on the floor
invariably becomes hers.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

> All I can tell you is that my tortoiseshell does the same thing.  She's the
> odd one out of my three cats -- the other two are littermates.  She's a
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
>>
>> We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?

Signature

Smartin

Gail - 17 Jan 2007 01:49 GMT
Has she seen a vet specifically for the urination problem and have physical
problems been ruled out by the vet? If so, I would try having her placed on
an anti-anxiety medication or an anti-depressant medication. There is such a
condition as interstitial cystitis that can be helped by those medications
(and they may also help with anxiety in the cat). Talk with your vet about
this.
Gail
> Aaah, houseplants. I forgot to mention they have been a frequent target of
> hers as well. And should a plant get upset onto the floor, we could count
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
>>>
>>> We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?
Bryan S. - 17 Jan 2007 14:26 GMT
> > Frankie however has a most obnoxious habit of urinating in inappropriate
> > places. She prefers surfaces -- end tables, the top of the deep freezer,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> > house in any form), a Christmas tree ornament that fell off, a piece of
> > paper, inside shoes, and more recently, on the kitchen counter.

Trouble's done this in the past, but *only* when there have been other
cats in the area.  Everything I could find to read on the subject
suggested that she was simply distressed.  My wife did even more
research on the problem and came across Feliway.

You can read about it here: http://www.feliway.co.uk/  (there's a US
site, as well, I'm certain)

Trouble has not peed anywhere but in her pan since the Feliways went
active, not even one time in well over a year.  Also, she just seems
happier in general and is very affectionate (not that she wasn't before,
really).  The stuff works.  I recommend it with absurdly high marks.

Signature

Bryan, Stacy, Alyssandra & James...

...under the watchful eyes of Her Majesty, Trouble (grey American
Shorthair)

Spot - 17 Jan 2007 01:49 GMT
Have you tried adding additional litter boxes and has she been to the vets
for a check up?

Celeste

> We've had a tortie for most of her eight years of life. For most of that
> time we've had a Siamese male as well. Over the last three years we've
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?
furmanthecat - 17 Jan 2007 02:55 GMT
Smartin,
    Have you tried Feliway spray? If not I would definitely try it.
Without getting too technical, it is a synthetic feline phermone spray
that calms down cats with aggression or territorial problems. It
seriously saved my cats life. She was a feral that we caught and
socialized, and she is completely tame now, except for sometimes when
she is stressed out territorial issues arise. She would urinate in
places she shouldn't, like the sofa or on place mats or the bed once.
With a combination of retraining and using Feliway religiously she is
now only using the litter box. I would also look up retraining online.
You basically put them in a small enclosed space like a dog cage with
just enough room for a litter box, bed and food and water dishes. They
have no choice but to go in the litter box, because otherwise they will
go in their bed. You have to take them out to get excersize each day
and spend lots of time keeping them company. I know it seems cruel to
keep them in a cage for a few days, but if the only other choice is
getting rid of them, I think it is worth it. There is a great book
written by a cat behaviorist named Pam Johnson-Bennett. The book is
called How to Raise a Well Adjusted Cat, and it has tons of great info
on how to deal with territorial issues, I run to get that book any time
I have a problem with my cats and it always helps. The Feliway is sold
through amazon.com, and also at any pet supply store. It is a little
pricey but I swear it works miracles. Be sure to follow the directions
that come with it exactly, because you have to use it in a specific
way. There is another product which is a litter called Dr. Elsey's Cat
Attract. I buy it at Petsmart, and I have also spoken to other people
whos cats were innapropriately urinating who used it and it does work.
Those things all combined worked for my cat, and I was having a nervous
breakdown with her. I was heartbroken because I thought I wasn't going
to be able to keep her. I hope you try them!!! Also, you might want to
consider that to save this kitties life, you may want to stop bringing
in other cats because she will probably never be okay with her
territory being invaded, and as long as you bring in others she will
continue to be a pee pee head:-) This is what I had to do. Good Luck!

> We've had a tortie for most of her eight years of life. For most of that
> time we've had a Siamese male as well. Over the last three years we've
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> --
> Smartin
Smartin - 18 Jan 2007 02:27 GMT
My sincerest thanks to everyone who responded. After reading your
suggestions, it seems redoubling our efforts to find a cure, such as it
may be, is worthwhile.

You folks are tops!

Signature

Smartin

Smartin - 20 Jan 2007 01:49 GMT
Just a couple hours ago, she turned about in a wooden chair (which
happens to have a gift bag on it), hiked her rear up and marked.

Right in front of me she did this.

We have just purchased four months' supply of Feliway diffuser, plus
spot spray online. Will arrive soon God willing.

Side Q: anyone heard of Feliway being restricted in the US (Michigan)? A
local pet supply told us the Dept of Ag. removed their stock because it
is "not approved." I can find nothing of this claim on the net. FWIW,
other stores have it on the shelf, though the first store claims "they
will probably not restock after those are sold". Weird. Much cheaper
online anyway.

Signature

Smartin

cybercat - 20 Jan 2007 01:53 GMT
> Just a couple hours ago, she turned about in a wooden chair (which happens
> to have a gift bag on it), hiked her rear up and marked.
>
> Right in front of me she did this.

What was in the gift bag?
Smartin - 20 Jan 2007 17:05 GMT
>> Just a couple hours ago, she turned about in a wooden chair (which happens
>> to have a gift bag on it), hiked her rear up and marked.
>>
>> Right in front of me she did this.
>
> What was in the gift bag?

Half a dozen used novels.

Signature

Smartin

-L. - 21 Jan 2007 00:05 GMT
> We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?

Elavil (ask your vet) and Precious Cat brand  Cat Attract cat litter by
Dr. Elsey (Google it).  Also replace the litter boxes if they are over
a year old - plastic absorbs odors.

-L.
Smartin - 27 Jan 2007 01:50 GMT
>> We are running out of patience with this. Does anyone have suggestions?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> -L.

L, Thanks for that... had not thought of it. It certainly does make
sense though.

In other news, Feliway arrived today. Our hope score is up.

Cheers to all,

Signature

Smartin

 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.