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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / January 2007How To Toilet Train a Cat
You've probably heard of cats that use the toilet just like their people do. How is this accomplished? Step 1: Move the litter pan into the bathroom. Step 2: Move the litter pan closer and closer to the toilet, until it is right next to it. Step 3: Raise the litter pan higher and higher on books or bricks until it is level with the toilet seat. Step 4: Move the litter pan on top of the toilet seat. Step 5: Replace the litter pan with a sheet of plastic taped to the toilet seat. Cover the middle of the plastic with kitty litter. Step 6: Retape plastic onto the seat such that it sags lower and lower into the bowl. Step 7: Remove the plastic. Of course, all these steps should be done gradually, getting the kitty cat completely comfortable with each new situation before going to the next. It helps if you have two or more bathrooms in your house! - from www.intellectual-playground.com > Step 4: Move the litter pan on top of the toilet seat. I would add to this: Duct tape the litter pan to the toilet. Trust me on this. I had Rudy very nearly toilet trained, but had to stop the process when I temporarily lost my second toilet due to remodeling. Once the third bathroom is in, I'm going to start again. Some cats are very upset by having their litter pans moved, though, and for those cats, I recommend a very, very, VERY slow transition. My Rudy has always been super flexible about his litter box, so it was easy.  SignatureLynne > Step 5: Replace the litter pan with a sheet of plastic taped to the > toilet seat. Cover the middle of the plastic with kitty litter. I should have read ahead. I used a disposable roasting pan for these steps, gradually cutting a larger and larger hole in the center. I wouldn't trust a sheet of plastic to hold up my fat cat. Even the roasting pan wasn't great for support, so some might want to use something sturdier. There is a product made just for toilet training cats that you can buy on- line. Do a Google search. It is made of sturdy plastic and has different inserts to be used as the process goes forward. I also used a flushable litter in the bottom of the roasting pan so it was safe once I started. Just a teeny bit for a while, and then none. SignatureLynne > on Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:13:45 GMT, "jstfrths" <jstfrths@aol.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > so it was safe once I started. Just a teeny bit for a while, > and then none. Toilet training a cat is completely unnatural, and can cause problems down the road. While you'd be able to see if there is blood or clumps in the urine (unless your cat has mastered flushing) you wouldn't be able to tell if you do see blood, if it came from urine or feces if both are in the toilet when you flush after him. Then there are problems that can arise when kitty gets older and less agile. It will be that much harder for him to transition to a litterbox in his senior years. I'm against trying to toilet train a cat. Unnatural. SignatureCheryl on Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:09:26 GMT, Cheryl <jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote: > Toilet training a cat is completely unnatural, and can cause > problems down the road. While you'd be able to see if there is > blood or clumps in the urine (unless your cat has mastered > flushing) you wouldn't be able to tell if you do see blood, if it > came from urine or feces if both are in the toilet when you flush > after him. It would actually be easier to collect stool and/or urine with a toilet trained cat. Simply put something under the lid for collection. You could even get a sterile urine catch if you use a sterile container, so I'd have to say that's not a compelling argument against toilet training. > Then there are problems that can arise when kitty gets > older and less agile. It will be that much harder for him to > transition to a litterbox in his senior years. > > I'm against trying to toilet train a cat. Unnatural. Going in a relatively teeny box indoors with clumping litter isn't exactly natural, either--not compared to the great outdoors--but cats have adapted just fine. I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think it's a big deal at all. Certainly if a cat exhibited behavioral problems related to elimination, well then that would be a good indicator it's not an option for that particular cat. If he or she doesn't, I'd say it is fine. A nice clean toilet that can be flushed has to smell a heck of a lot better than even the most well kept litter box, too. Not only that, it's much more environmentally friendly than disposing of litter and/or feces in landfills, and that is _very_ important to me. If I am able to successfully train both boys to use the toilet then of course I will make accomodations when they are older, with either a ramp or stairs to the commode, or a toddler potty. So I still don't see any downsides. And before anyone argues that cats like to bury their waste, I'd like to point out that not all of them do. We get a lot of posts here complaining about that, in fact. My Rudy buries his, but only very lightly. He also gets out of the pan and scratches all around it. He can do the same with a toilet, and did when he was using it. I think toilet training a cat is brilliant! I just hope Levi takes to it as well as Rudy did. SignatureLynne > It would actually be easier to collect stool and/or urine with a > toilet trained cat. Simply put something under the lid for > collection. You could even get a sterile urine catch if you use > a sterile container, so I'd have to say that's not a compelling > argument against toilet training. Hmm. You have a point there. Every time I see posts about how to get a sterile catch, I wonder. One time I put gravel in a clean litterbox at the request of a vet, but couldn't get kitty to go in it. For that I would leave it up to the vet. If they have to cath to get it, I guess it would be better than me trying to catch it with a shy-bladder kitty. Could be less stressful to catch it in saran wrap. But I just can't see my cats climbing up there to do their business. >> Then there are problems that can arise when kitty gets >> older and less agile. It will be that much harder for him to [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > friendly than disposing of litter and/or feces in landfills, and > that is _very_ important to me. But what if your cat didn't display an aversion to using the toilet until way after you trained him? They do this, you know. They do a 180 on us all the time. What if you have multiple cats, and some won't use the toilet, and some do, and what if the one that does decides to use the litterbox and never goes back to the toilet? Do you try to re-train or do you decide it was an anomoly that he was trained in the first place? My cats are extremely interested in the toilet, and do believe they know what it's for, but I don't think they'd use it consistently because they can't dig. > If I am able to successfully train both boys to use the toilet > then of course I will make accomodations when they are older, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > think toilet training a cat is brilliant! I just hope Levi > takes to it as well as Rudy did. I've never seen a cat that just sits on the litter and does it's business and hops out of the box. There's always digging, whether it's before the business or after. I'd like to read about your success if you'd like to keep a journal here or elsewhere. I know cats are damn smart and can do it. I just don't think it's a good idea to let them. Their business is one of our only indications of their health status. SignatureCheryl "Cowboy take me away. Fly this girl as high as you can into the wild blue. Set me free oh, I pray. Closer to heaven above and closer to you." on Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:58:25 GMT, Cheryl <jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote: > Hmm. You have a point there. Every time I see posts about how to > get a sterile catch, I wonder. One time I put gravel in a clean [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > saran wrap. But I just can't see my cats climbing up there to do > their business. I always left my cat, Calvin at the vet for sterile urine catches. It didn't phase him and I'm lazy that way. It sure would be easier to be able to get it on the pot, though. > But what if your cat didn't display an aversion to using the toilet > until way after you trained him? They do this, you know. They do a > 180 on us all the time. Yep, it happens with litter boxes, too. I honestly think you have to evaluate the temperament of the individual cat before even considering trying something like this. Some cats can't handle any changes whatsoever, other cats are very easy going. Most are in between. If a toilet trained cat started showing an aversion to using the toilet, I'd try a number of things, including putting a litter box right next to the toilet at toilet level for starters, and additional litter boxes in other locations. It would depend on what the cat was actually doing, though. I'd want to rule out medical issues first, of course. > What if you have multiple cats, and some > won't use the toilet, and some do, and what if the one that does [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the toilet, and do believe they know what it's for, but I don't > think they'd use it consistently because they can't dig. Rudy was using it very consistently, but he's also incredibly laid back. I can and have moved litter boxes all over the house. I just show him where they are and he's fine with it all. He is also very nonchalant about new pets and visiting dogs. In fact, he seems to enjoy change and is all over new people and visiting dogs as if they were covered in catnip. Now Levi, I don't know how he will be. He's still very young. I think it will be pretty obvious early on if he doesn't take to toilet training. If that is the case, he will continue to have a litter box to use. Rudy may decide he prefers that, too and not use the toilet. I have 2 boxes, one upstairs in the master bathroom and one in the basement. They pee upstairs and poo downstairs, so I will use the one in the master bath for toilet training and see how it goes. I'll try to take photos (it's a gas to see!), but I probably won't keep a journal. There is a blog somewhere on the interweb that some woman kept of her toilet training adventures. Her cat took a lot longer than Rudy for each stage... I'm not sure I would have continued. But it was her blog that gave me the idea to use the disposeable turkey pan. If it's still out there, I'm sure you can find it on Google. So even if only one cat (Rudy) takes to the toilet, I figure that's a huge savings on litter and the resulting impact on our environment. Once my basement is finished later in the year and I can devote a toilet to the training period, I'll let y'all know how it goes! > I've never seen a cat that just sits on the litter and does it's > business and hops out of the box. There's always digging, whether > it's before the business or after. Rudy isn't a big digger, except on the tile around the box when he's done. Levi on the other hand throws litter like confetti, so he may very well not take to toilet training. I am not hell bent on toilet training--if it works, then great! If not, oh well. That was my attitude before. I think if a person is too determined and gets frustrated with it the cat(s) will pick up on that and all bets are off. Rudy was fine going right back to the litter box, too, but he may be highly unusual as cats go. He's certainly the most adaptable cat I've ever had. I've never seen him stress out about anything. :) SignatureLynne > You've probably heard of cats that use the toilet just like their > people do. How is this accomplished? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > - from www.intellectual-playground.com there si something on the market from an australian company (I believe) called "doogie's litter kwitter" which has these inserts which fit into the loo seat or something. anyway you can get them from www.petplanet.co.uk and it comes with a training DVD and instruction booklet. are you inthe states? not sure if this company will post it out to you but you could try them, personally I find the whole thing a bit odd especially as kittens will poo and bury things in dirt instinctually, kind of goes against the grain for me > > You've probably heard of cats that use the toilet just like their > > people do. How is this accomplished? [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > especially as kittens will poo and bury things in dirt instinctually, > kind of goes against the grain for me I know that it is possible, because a woman who lives next door to my mother, has a cat that uses her loo too, but it is a bit odd,isn't it? I can see why people would prefer they do...But I feel it must be a little unatural for the cat? I would hate it if someone stuck me on a cat litter & said,."Do It"! Lol.. S:o) http://www.mingusmingusmingus.com/Mingus/cat_training.html > You've probably heard of cats that use the toilet just like their > people do. How is this accomplished? It shouldn't be. The only thing you should accomplish is flushing the stupid idea down the toilet. Digging and burying waste is instinctual for cats- just like scratching. You can't suppress millions of years of instinct in an animal without it affecting her. We've taken too much away from cats already out of necessity for their benefit. Toilet training is unnecessary and just a silly, human convenience from which the cat derives no benefit.. Let the cat be a cat. If your stomach is too sensitive- or you're too lazy to scoop a litter box a couple of times a week- buy a goldfish. > > You've probably heard of cats that use the toilet just like their > > people do. How is this accomplished? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > If your stomach is too sensitive- or you're too lazy to scoop a litter box a > couple of times a week- buy a goldfish.# HOORAH!!! i totally agree, i knew i had read it somewhere that it is an innate instinct for cats adn kittens to bury their waste, youhave just confirmed it for me. I hate it when people who are too lazy or precious try to find some way to get out of a simple if a bit distatseful job liek dealgin with litter, what if you have a baby? are you going to try to genetically engineer one who can automatically change it's own nappy fromthe day it is born so you don't have to? it is this kind of thinking that has lead to declawing of cats by tragic selfish people who think more of their soft furnishing than they do of the cats who who live them. if you do not like dealing with litter why can't you let your cat goes outside to do it's business? Bookie (who is just about to enpty jessie's litter tray in fact, and is very happy to do so instead of forcing her to learn bizarre and unnatural behaviours) xx ps i am so worked up now i just broke a fingernail whilst typing, humph > it is this kind of thinking that has lead to declawing of cats by > tragic selfish people who think more of their soft furnishing than they > do of the cats who who live them. Absatively. Although toilet training isn't physically traumatic as declawing- its just as demeaning. Every time I see a declawed cat paw-rub I want to disjoint the owner. A quick head dunk- before the flush- would suffice for a toilet trainer... > If your stomach is too sensitive- or you're too lazy to scoop a litter > box a couple of times a week- buy a goldfish. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Uh, laziness isn't a motivator for me to toilet train. If I was lazy I'd only scoop the box a "couple of times a week", but I actually scoop 2 boxes several times per day *each* and thoroughly wash each box at least once per week. Cleanliness and environmental responsibility are my motivators to toilet train. I also just don't agree that it's bad for a cat to use the toilet, so long as they have plenty of opportunities to scratch as part of the ritual. As I said before, many cats do NOT bury their waste (people post here complaining about it, and people tell them to teach their cat to do it. Hmmmmmmmm...) One of my own cats only scratches outside the litter box, on the tile floor. But anyhoo, while using a toilet may be unnatural, that doesn't imply it will necessarily have negative consequences. If you have proof, however, in the way of peer reviewed studies, now I'd be very interested in that! (If they haven't been done, that'd be a GREAT research project for a vet student, though it may be completely inconclusive.) Heck, even anecdotal evidence would be worth looking at. That feeling of "it's unnatural" just doesn't really mean much. SignatureLynne >> If your stomach is too sensitive- or you're too lazy to scoop a litter >> box a couple of times a week- buy a goldfish. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > once per week. Cleanliness and environmental responsibility are my > motivators to toilet train. I don't know, Lynne. I wouldn't put my cats through it. And even if I would, I do not want to share a toilet with a cat. >>> If your stomach is too sensitive- or you're too lazy to scoop a litter >>> box a couple of times a week- buy a goldfish. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I don't know, Lynne. I wouldn't put my cats through it. And even > if I would, I do not want to share a toilet with a cat. I thought we already did. They always give us an audience when we are in our throne room but do it to them ;-) > I thought we already did. They always give us an audience when we are in > our throne room but do it to them ;-) haha! As long as my nether regions are not visiting the same surface theirs are, I'm happy. > ritual. As I said before, many cats do NOT bury their waste (people post these cats are most likely to be the exceptions (just like not every human washes their hands after they go to the loo, ugh!) or it may be one of their ways of 'marking territory' by leaving their 'doings' visible for all to see. I just do not like the idea, it does not sit well with me given kitties' instincts to bury faeces and stuff, kind of like sultanas in currys and fat women in short skirts, just wrong on so many levels bookie > > If your stomach is too sensitive- or you're too lazy to scoop a litter > > box a couple of times a week- buy a goldfish. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > boxes several times per day *each* and thoroughly wash each box at least > once per week. "Couple of times a week was a typo- I meant a couple of times a day. > Cleanliness and Scooping "2 boxes several times per day *each* and thoroughly wash each box at least once per week" isn't cleanly enough??? I guess you haven't thought about where your cats' tongues have been a few minutes before he licks your face-- Or do you make him brush his teeth and gargle before licking your face? ;) environmental responsibility are my > motivators to toilet train. If you're that green- you could use flushable litter. If you don't want to flush litter down your toilet, you could use a biodegradable litter such as SweetScoop or WBCL- or any biodegradable litter. That would satisfy your environmental responsibility while respecting and being sensitive to your cats' basic instincts. *Any* way you look at it, toilet training is entirely owner convenience without regard for the cat's basic instincts. Also detecting polyuria- the early warning signs of CRF and diabetes- might be a tad difficult if your cats pisses in the bowl, doncha think? How about when the cat gets older? > > That feeling of "it's unnatural" just doesn't really mean > much. Maybe not to you- but it does to the cat. Perhaps I'm just a little more sensitive to a feline's psychology. Cats instinctually eliminate on dirt or or a sand-type substrate- its been hardwired into their neurocircuits for millions of years. Have you ever seen a cat jump up on the bowl and take a dump on her own without training? or meow for you get off the pot because she had to go badly? What's next? Are you going to teach your cats to wipe their a.s with toilet paper and flush or sit up and eat at the table with a fork? Toilet training a cat is just as preposterous. I think its actually demeaning to the cat- but that's me. I tend to be a tad sensitive to a cat's natural instincts. > What's next? Are you going to teach your cats to wipe > their a.s with toilet paper and flush or sit up and eat at the table > with a fork? Maybe. <eye roll> > Toilet training a cat is just as preposterous. I think > its actually demeaning to the cat- but that's me. I tend to be a tad > sensitive to a cat's natural instincts. Toilet training is a convenience for me, yup. But if I see any adverse effects, you can be sure I will take care of my cats. I already addressed the medical questions. Your arguments there just aren't the least bit compelling. And comparing toilet training to the barbaric act of declawing makes you sound hysterical. The same could be said about keeping cats indoors (but not by me, since I do keep mine inside for their safety). At worst, keeping cats indoors is unnatural... just like toilet training. I am a great cat owner. My cats are better cared for than most, in every way. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point. SignatureLynne > > What's next? Are you going to teach your cats to wipe > > their a.s with toilet paper and flush or sit up and eat at the table [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Toilet training is a convenience for me, yup. Glad we agree on that. Toilet training sure isn't a convenience for the cat. But if I see any adverse > effects, you can be sure I will take care of my cats. You might not associate the effect with the cause. The effects of stress and/or depression could be manifested in a number of ways all of which may seem unrelated to the actual cause. But that's besides the point. Why wait to see adverse effects when they can be easily avoided? I'd rather avoid a problem than correct it. Wouldn't you? I already addressed > the medical questions. Your arguments there just aren't the least bit > compelling. Perhaps not for you- not at this time. But in time as you learn more about feline health and psychology, you'll learn that cats instinctually conceal illness and pain very well, and because of this, its important it is for us as caregivers to detect subtle, early warning signs. Polyuria is difficult enough to detect and identify the cat in a multicat household in which the cats use litter boxes. In a household where cats use the toilet, detection is virtually impossible- unless the cat is also pollakiuric. I don't care how observant you think you are; you just can't monitor urine volume in a toilet. . And comparing toilet training to the barbaric act of declawing > makes you sound hysterical. Hardly. I said toilet training is as demeaning as declawing- not as traumatic. If anything, forcing a cat to eliminate in a toilet for cleanliness makes you sound molysmophobic. The same could be said about keeping cats > indoors (but not by me, since I do keep mine inside for their safety). At > worst, keeping cats indoors is unnatural... just like toilet training. Hardly. That analogy does not apply. Keeping cats indoors is hardy demeaning. Indoor cats view their home as their territory-- complete with a home range and core. A cat raised indoor has no desire to roam outdoors. > I am a great cat owner. I'm sure you are. Most cat owner think they are. Most have just been lucky, some think just loving their cats automatically makes them a great cat owner, and some just don't know any better. A really great cat owner strives to provide their cats with an enriched environment that resembles their natural environment as close as possible. My cats are better cared for than most, in every > way. I'm sure they are. Most cat owners feel that way, too-- even if their cats aren't. > We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point. I'll agree.with that. Phil > Toilet training is a convenience for me, yup. what exactly so damn inconvenient about cleanng out litter boxes? you work it into you routine somehow, and dealing with it is a small price to pay I think to have happy, well-adjusted cats behaving in a normal way as their instincts dictate. Why do you have cats at all if you can't be bothered to accommodate them properly and allow them to behave in a normal manner for them? > . And comparing toilet training to the barbaric act of declawing > makes you sound hysterical. no at all, toilet traingn a cat is just the start of a very rocky road which coudl end up at declawing for some. it is all about people and owners trying to change their cats behaviour to an unnatural degree to suit themselves and their (often lazy and selfish) lifestyles, toilet training is one example and declawing is not that far removed for me. i woudl not entertain doing either. The same could be said about keeping cats > indoors (but not by me, since I do keep mine inside for their safety). At > worst, keeping cats indoors is unnatural... I agree, I would never keep a cat indoors, I think that is awful, all of my cats and my family's have always had access tothe great outdoors and i would not have it any other way. Yes we have lost one or 2 on the road but i think that at least they died having enjoyed a full and exciting life being able to experience the wonders of nature, of chasing butterflies, of fishing in my parents pond for tadpoles, of chasing frogs down the garden, of snoozing under the hydrangea bush in the afternoon, of blowing raspberries at next door's dog and running away over the fence, etc etc. i cannot possibly hope to provide the same stimulation for a cat indoors as they woudl get outside (unless i lived in Kew Gardens' temperate house or something, or possibly in the Eden Project) and so the only way to provide them with the best environment for play and exploration and mental and physical stimulation is simply to let them outside. Otherwise I would feel I was letting my cats down somehow. please note that i live in a small town, lots of cast around here, not many cars in our small cul-de-sac, no crazed rednecks roaming round with guns ready to shoot anything or packs of wild dogs so dangers in my back garden are very limited. I mean we are talking the home counties of england here, not the wild west. just like toilet training. > I am a great cat owner. to me that says it all, you say you are a cat OWNER, you think you own the cat, it is a possession to you which can be adjusted and moulded to suit you and your decor. I truly believe i am honoured that my jessie chooses to live with me (after all i am not forcing her to, she could bugger off anytime she likes when i open the back door for her), i never consider myself her 'owner' more her carer or guardian, her provider, and as such i would think it wrong to try to make her change anything to suit me. One can never truly own a cat My cats are better cared for than most, in every > way. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point. i suppose so, nevermind > I also just don't agree that it's bad for a cat to use the toilet, so > long as they have plenty of opportunities to scratch as part of the > ritual. As I said before, many cats do NOT bury their waste (people post > here complaining about it, and people tell them to teach their cat to do > it. Jay Jay does not cover his waste, but not because he doesn't scratch. He digs and buries. He just hasn't noticed that his aim is bad. I have another cat who actually peed on my bed when I switched to a litter that wasn't good for digging (the pellet type). I had it changed back the next day. I got his meaning very fast, and I would never take away his ability to dig again. In fact, I top of the litter every couple days to make sure it stays deep enough for him to get a really good dig since he loves to dig so much. As for the toilet training, I thought it sounded cool a long time again, but the thought of a senior cat falling in changed my mind. Cats have another instint, to hide weakness. So a cat with arthritis is not going to show it right away. They are going to hide pain as much as they can. Even an owner who pays attention is not going to know right away that their cat is having more trouble with jumping and balancing. Several years ago, my healthy 17 year old cat didn't come to the plate for his can of food, something that really surprised me. He looked and seemed fine. But since he never refuses food unless sick, I knew it was a warning sign. I went to put him up by the plate, and he yelped. Now I knew something was wrong. It took me 15 minutes and finally a flash light to find a very small patch of "meat" just under his tail. He had an abcess by his tail, which made it painful to jump since they stiffen their tail when jumping. He went to the vet in the morning (it was 3am when I discovered the problem), and he was eating that night, but didn't do much jumping for about a week. Sometimes, a serious problem is not obvious. If he had been toilet trained, he would not have been able to jump on the toilet, and I could have been wondering why my cat was "misbehaving" by peeing elsewhere. Isn't it amazing how many people do NOT check for a medical condition when their cat pees outside the box? That behavior is often a sign, yet it gets ignored frequently. Another issue, and this one is what deterred me from getting an automatic litter box, is that it is really helpful to know what is going on with their litter. And if you have multiple people in the house, flushing when they go to the toilet, then you do not have one person aware of any changes in patterns. As it is, I missed a clear sign last year because we have two people changing litter boxes in my house, and I assumed that the extra urine in my boxes was just more usage downstairs and less usage upstairs. If I had been doing all of the boxes, or asked if the box upstairs had less, I would have known that there was a serious problem, and could have said so when I had her at the vet. Because she had other problems that were obvious, the vet did not realize she was suffering from kidney failure. I don't know if we could have saved her or not, but I noticed the increased urine about a week before her last vet trip, and she died two days after that. So, I could have taken her a week early and started her on fluids and medicine sooner. If your cat is toilet trained, how will you know if she is peeing more? If she is peeing that much, it won't be as concentrated, so it may not even be visible in the toilet bowl. But if you are scooping litter, you will see if (even if you don't realize what it means). Cats cannot tell us how they feel, and they won't volunteer information that tells us they are weak. It is against their instincts. So, it is our job to be on the lookout and be proactive. My nephew has a cat, and they live in the same house. My nephew thinks bodily functions are gross, and I have a strong feeling that I will inherit his cat because he has never scooped the litter box, and it takes half an hour of bad faces before he will clean up a hairball in his room. Most hairballs are in my room, so even if he watches it, I get stuck cleaning it up. And meds are all me too. I have tried to get him to do it, but he refuses and I cannot leave it undone. It is all I can do to get him to help me by holding a cat. I even trim his cat's nails for him. So, why do I mention this? Because I am the one who feeds, does the litter, trims nails, etc. So, I am the one who noticed his cat was losing weight. He didn't believe me until it was more obvious the next week. And by then I had increased his canned food. I figured it was because he was still moping around after Kira died. He's the one who always attacked her and apparently, he misses his play toy. Anyway, he picked up weight fairly quickly with the additional cat food, but again, I am the one who discovered the tape worm segment. It was on my bed since he sleeps on my bed (he knows who feeds him and changes the litter for him). And since I want to know about medical issues concerning my cats, and I have done so since I can remember, I knew that something that looks like a sesame seed is most likely a tape worm segment. I took him to the vet, got the shot, and all is well. It is a lot easier to catch the problems if you are the one monitoring things and knowing what is going on. I found Maynard's abcess because I knew his appetite was not right, and I spent the time to loko at his butt with a flashlight. I found Kira's anal gland problem (which was caused by tape worm) because I saw her fussing with herself and took the time to look at her butt. And when I was at the vet, I paid attention, and let him educate me. I know cleaning litter isn't fun. I actually buy disposable gloves so I can scoop litter and clean up vomit and hairballs without getting my hands dirty. But I think it is a valuable tool in the health of my kitties. > > I also just don't agree that it's bad for a cat to use the toilet, so > > long as they have plenty of opportunities to scratch as part of the [quoted text clipped - 98 lines] > hands dirty. But I think it is a valuable tool in the health of my > kitties. hear hear! very good points and well presented too B on Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:17:47 GMT, "friesian@zoocrewphoto.com" > If your cat is toilet trained, how will you know if she is peeing more? > If she is peeing that much, it won't be as concentrated, so it may not > even be visible in the toilet bowl. But if you are scooping litter, you > will see if (even if you don't realize what it means). You and Phil raise a good point with this. This is not something I took into serious consideration. So maybe toilet training won't be in our future... I'm definitely going to think all of this. Who says Usenet can't change minds? :) SignatureLynne > on Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:17:47 GMT, "friesian@zoocrewphoto.com" > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > into serious consideration. So maybe toilet training won't be in our > future... I'm definitely going to think all of this. I can't ask for more than that! ;) After reading your posts for a couple of months, I'm confident you'll come to the right decision. Phil > I can't ask for more than that! ;) After reading your posts for a > couple of months, I'm confident you'll come to the right decision. Well, I thought a lot about all of this, and did some research. My primary motives for wanting to toilet train were cleanliness and environmental conservation. Neither of these concerns are more important than the health of my cats, though. I'm not convinced of any negative emotional/behavioral impact, but losing the ability to monitor my boys' urine output, especially as they age, is just not an option now that I know what I know. So toilet training is out. In order to achieve cleanliness and be more environmentally friendly, I ordered 2 Feline Pine litter boxes. They have sifter inserts that sit above the bottom pan, so the sawdust goes to the bottom tray. I have been using Feline Pine for quite sometime, but I hated that when the time drew near to change the box, my cats had to walk in that damp sawdust. I also hated that they tracked it through the house (even though it tracks far less than clay or clumping litters). Another problem I had was that there was no good way to seperate the sawdust from the remaining pellets, and so I was dumping it all in the trash. Now I'll be able to use every bit of the new pellets, and also dump the sawdust in the garden for mulch. Since I flush their poo, all of my concerns are addressed! I just hope dumping the sawdust in the garden doesn't attract the neighborhood cats and cause them to see my garden as a litter box. The mfg says the pine neutralizes the urine, but I wonder if it still smells like pee to cats?? SignatureLynne > > I can't ask for more than that! ;) After reading your posts for a > > couple of months, I'm confident you'll come to the right decision. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > urine output, especially as they age, is just not an option now that I > know what I know. So toilet training is out. See? I knew you'd make the right decision! ;) > In order to achieve cleanliness and be more environmentally friendly, I > ordered 2 Feline Pine litter boxes. They have sifter inserts that sit [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > mfg says the pine neutralizes the urine, but I wonder if it still smells > like pee to cats?? I think the mfg means the pine neutralizes the urine smell as far as humans can smell. But the cat's olfactory epithelium is about 5x to10x larger than ours- about 20 sq. cm to our 2-4 sq. cm and contains about 40x more scent receptors than ours- about 200 million to our measly 5 million. And don't forget the cat's olfactory ramjet - the vomeronasal a/k/a "Jacobson's Organ" (http://maxshouse.com/vomeronasal-flehmem.htm) Its pretty hard to hide urine from a cat! Let me know if it works. I'll bet it doesn't. Take a Q-Tip and gently swab your cats' nostrils. You might change your mind about using Feline Pine. Have you considered Swheat Scoop or the World's Best Cat Litter? They're both environmentally friendly and biodegradable. They're also healthier for your cats. Phil > Take a Q-Tip and gently swab your cats' nostrils. You might change > your mind about using Feline Pine. Nothing in their nostrils. Was I supposed to find sawdust in there? SignatureLynne > > Take a Q-Tip and gently swab your cats' nostrils. You might change > > your mind about using Feline Pine. > > Nothing in their nostrils. Was I supposed to find sawdust in there? I thought you might. We were using Exquisicat Pine Litter- at the behest of the store. Its Petsmart's version of Feline Pine-- the same shape, texture, and color. I found traces of the sawdust in a few cats' nostrils. Since its the same type of litter as Feline Pine, I thought you might have the same problem. Phil > I thought you might. We were using Exquisicat Pine Litter- at the > behest of the store. Its Petsmart's version of Feline Pine-- the same > shape, texture, and color. I found traces of the sawdust in a few > cats' nostrils. Since its the same type of litter as Feline Pine, I > thought you might have the same problem. I'll definitely keep an eye out for that. I expect once the new pans are here, the risk of that will go down further since the sawdust will be under the pellets. If you ever hear of anything else bad about Feline (or any) Pine litter, please post here. SignatureLynne > > I thought you might. We were using Exquisicat Pine Litter- at the > > behest of the store. Its Petsmart's version of Feline Pine-- the same [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If you ever hear of anything else bad about Feline (or any) Pine litter, > please post here. If you have a multicat household you might want to look into Cat Country litter. Its made of compressed wheat grass and its biodegradable. It has also been proven (by Dr. Diane Addie) to kill feline coronavius (the parent enteric coronavirus of the mutated coronavirus virus that causes FIP). Phil on Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:17:47 GMT, "friesian@zoocrewphoto.com" > I know cleaning litter isn't fun. I actually buy disposable gloves so I > can scoop litter and clean up vomit and hairballs without getting my > hands dirty. But I think it is a valuable tool in the health of my > kitties. I don't mind cleaning litter, BTW--not at all. That was never the issue. But again, the medical issues are something that bear serious consideration. SignatureLynne |
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