Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / November 2006
I give up
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Totalrod2@aol.com - 25 Nov 2006 03:30 GMT I just need to vent. I love my cat so much, but she's peeing everywhere (including in her box where she KNOWS she's supposed to be going). There's blood in her pee. It's bright red and she only goes little tiny droplets at a time (tract infection?). I've taken her to 2 different vets and spent over $1,500 on her. She's putting me in the poor house!! This problem has gone on for the better part of two years. The vets have run tests and they continuously tell me nothing is wrong with her. Are they f.cking idiots?! She's pissing blood!! Even a five year old child could tell something is wrong here. I would gladly spend the money if it would make my cat better. But I can't afford to keep bringing her in just to have these boneheads tell me "she's fine" OR "it's a behavior problem". Blood stained urine is a behavior problem? That's a new one for the medical books. I wish I didn't have to get rid of her, but my house is really starting to wreak of urine. Has anyone else ever been in this situation? Bryan
Matthew - 25 Nov 2006 03:41 GMT >I just need to vent. I love my cat so much, but she's peeing everywhere > (including in her box where she KNOWS she's supposed to be going). [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > else ever been in this situation? > Bryan Bryan this is not a behavioral problem your vets are idiots if they have not sent you to a specialist if they can't figure it out. Where do you live so one of us can give you information for specialist or a vet college that can try and help you out
Vent all you like I would be ripping their throats out if they were being stupid with me. So would a lot of us.
May I ask what test they have run and the treatments they have preformed if you can remember
Phil P. - 25 Nov 2006 09:05 GMT <Totalrod2@aol.com> wrote in message news:1164425431.786077.154490@l39g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> I just need to vent. I love my cat so much, but she's peeing everywhere > (including in her box where she KNOWS she's supposed to be going). > There's blood in her pee. It's bright red and she only goes little tiny > droplets at a time (tract infection?). That's a classic description of Feline Interstitial Cystis (FIC). She may have defect in the glycosaminoglycan (GAG) layer that coats the bladder wall that's allowing urine to penetrate the urothelium and cause inflammation. Crystals or small calculi can also irritate and inflame the bladder wall. Inflammation in the bladder and/or urethra causes a nervous sensation that mimics the sensation a full bladder even if the bladder is empty. The nervous impulses that control urination are constantly stimulated by the inflammation so that she has the urge to urinate constantly whether her bladder is full or empty. So, even if her bladder is empty she'll still try and strain to urinate. Bleeding can be caused by irritation from crystals or calculi, and/or tearing the bladder mucosa from straining to urinate. She's peeing all over the place because she's associating the painful urination with the location- she's trying to find a place that doesn't hurt her when she pees.
I've taken her to 2 different
> vets and spent over $1,500 on her. She's putting me in the poor house!! > This problem has gone on for the better part of two years. The vets > have run tests and they continuously tell me nothing is wrong with her. Did they check her urine for crystals and bacteria?
> Are they f.cking idiots?! Just average, mediocre vets that don't bother to think past the numbers. If nothing abnormal shows up on the tests- the cat must be ok... even if she's peeing, pooping, and vomiting blood... Unfortunately, there are a lot vets like that around who treat the numbers instead of the cat.
She's pissing blood!! Even a five year old
> child could tell something is wrong here. I would gladly spend the > money if it would make my cat better. But I can't afford to keep [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > else ever been in this situation? > Bryan You don't have to get rid of her- she can be treated. Surrendering a cat to a shelter for an inappropriate urination problem is an automatic death sentence.
The first order of business is feeding her only canned food. Canned food will increase her water intake and dilute the noxious substances in her urine. It will also result in more frequent urination- which in turn will decrease bladder contact time with urine and eliminate crystals and small calculi before they can irritate the bladder wall.
Also, speak to a vet about a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement- such as Cosequin- to help repair and maintain her bladder wall. Finally, you might want to speak to a vet about Amitriptyline. Amitriptyline is tricyclic anti-depressant that also has anti-inflammatory and analgesic properties and has helped many cats with FIC.
Keep the faith,
Phil
jmc - 27 Nov 2006 05:58 GMT Suddenly, without warning, Phil P. exclaimed (25-Nov-06 6:35 PM):
> <Totalrod2@aol.com> wrote in message > news:1164425431.786077.154490@l39g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Phil Phil gives very good advice. I went through the same thing with Meep, except with a decent vet. She had the exact same symptoms you describe for your cat. Here's Meep's regime, hopefully it'll help you:
Although I agree your cat should be on 100% wet food, Meep's on wet in the evening and dry otherwise... There's two reasons for this: she refuses to eat any good-quality wet/canned food; her dry food is a mix of senior food and a veterinary urinary control formula. Junk food junkie, she is. Also, she gets pretty serious tartar buildup on her teeth, so I prefer to keep feeding some dry for her dental health.
So she gets high-quality dry in the morning, and a small can of wet food in the evening (she won't eat more than that). To her wet food, I add a glucosamine supplement - I use Joint Care from Drs Foster and Smith (http://tinyurl.com/yjnw4p - she's on JC2). (Glucosamine supplements specifically for urinary problems are a lot more expensive, and my vet said it's pretty much the same). I also add a bit of extra water to her wet food (she's up to about a tablespoon). If she's showing signs of possibly getting uncomfortable - digging in her box a lot, or peeing more frequently than normal - I add a supplement to her food for a few days (http://tinyurl.com/mvvbw).
In addition, I've put water all over the house. At first, I tried water bowls in different locations, to determine where she prefers her water. Turns out, she completely does not like her water next to her food! Her favorite water dish for a while was in the bedroom, but that's recently shifted to the one in the living room, next to her tree. I also purchased a Drinkwell, a pet fountain, as many cats prefer moving water to drink. I'm told some cats can be induced to drink more by the addition of a touch of tuna-water to their regular water, but though Meep Loves tuna water, she doesn't want it in her drinking water...
Oh, and because the water here is extremely hard, I have a big Britta filter for her water...
This sounds like a lot, but it's really not. Before this, she had two serious attacks within 6 months of each other; the second she had blood in her urine. With the new regime, it's been I think over a year now, and a high-stress year it's been - she's moved to a new foreign country, and spent a couple months in catteries/quarantine.
So, here's what I'd suggest:
Get her on wet food immediately. Add a tiny bit of water, increasing the amount if you can. Get a glucosamine supplement, and add it to her food per package instructions. If you can afford it and she'll eat it, get better quality stuff. You don't have to go to the vet for this, try pet stores, feed stores or online (petsmart.com if you're in the US)
Get more water bowls, put them everywhere, pay attention to which ones she's drinking from, and how much. If she doesn't drink out of them, try filtered water - or if you can, bottled, at least until you can get the problem under control. Try ice cubes, or a little flavoring.
If you can afford it, buy a Drinkwell or other pet fountain. Keep it clean, full and running.
Oh, and find yourself a decent vet. This isn't a deadly disease, but it's terribly painful for her, as I'm sure you realize.
Good luck, and hope this helps!
jmc
Rhonda - 25 Nov 2006 05:29 GMT Bryan,
Wow, I can't believe you and your cat have had to go through this.
First of all, you have to find a vet you can trust. Sounds like the first two didn't follow through or didn't know how to find the problem. Where are you located? Maybe someone here knows of a good vet. You could call a cat/animal rescue group in your area and ask for a recommendation. Finding a good vet is going to solve a lot of problems -- hopefully her peeing for one thing, but also the cost. If someone can dig in and find the cause it's going to save you a lot of money rather than continued searching with more tests.
You could also go to an internist vet, they are specialists. You normally have to have a referral from a regular vet. Our vet suggests one right away when she knows the problem is past her diagnostic capabilities.
Good luck. Don't give up. You've had some bad luck but I think you can turn it around.
Let us know what happens,
Rhonda
> I just need to vent. I love my cat so much, but she's peeing everywhere > (including in her box where she KNOWS she's supposed to be going). [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > else ever been in this situation? > Bryan Lesley - 25 Nov 2006 11:23 GMT I've taken her to 2 different
> vets and spent over $1,500 on her. She's putting me in the poor house!! > This problem has gone on for the better part of two years. The vets > have run tests and they continuously tell me nothing is wrong with her. > Are they f.cking idiots?! My first advice to you is the same as everyone else's.
Your vets are idiots, change vets.
If they're not idiots then they are even worse because they're obviously just seeing you as an ATM for them. More expensive tests = more money for them.
I agree with Phil P (I always do I salute his knowledge of feline health every time he writes something) it sounds like FIC, which is treatable but only by a vet who isn't either incompetent or just out to get as much cash as they can out of a concerned slave.
Try asking friends with cats for recommendations or ask the local shelter- I don't know where you are but if by some unlikely miracle you live in East London UK then let me know and I can tell you the vets I'd recommend (Goddards in Burdett Road, Mile End have consistently cared for my cats very well since 1999)
But CHANGE THE VET!
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
T - 25 Nov 2006 14:14 GMT > I just need to vent. I love my cat so much, but she's peeing everywhere > (including in her box where she KNOWS she's supposed to be going). [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > else ever been in this situation? > Bryan I think you've encountered the new breed of veterinarians. They're all about the money, not about the health of the animal.
flash - 25 Nov 2006 17:18 GMT > I think you've encountered the new breed of veterinarians. They're all > about the money, not about the health of the animal. It isn't a new breed. As with inept/unethical people in all professions, they have always been there. Choose your vet carefully, based upon talking with others who have used them.
T - 25 Nov 2006 18:37 GMT > > I think you've encountered the new breed of veterinarians. They're all > > about the money, not about the health of the animal. > > It isn't a new breed. As with inept/unethical people in all professions, > they have always been there. Choose your vet carefully, based upon > talking with others who have used them. Not just veterinarians but M.D.'s as well. My ENT is making me crazy - I have what is obviously an inner ear infection. Thus far I've been given diuretics, tranqs, steroids, had a head MRI, etc. I can't wait to see him again in a couple weeks because he's going to get an earful.
Lesley - 27 Nov 2006 00:04 GMT > I think you've encountered the new breed of veterinarians. They're all > about the money, not about the health of the animal. They are not new..many years ago Jack met Linda and they wanted to be wedded. Jack got offered a teaching job in Saudi...he could only come back twice a year for the next two years but they could phone/write etc and the money would pay the deposit for their first home together and furnishing it
So off went Jack and as a parting gift he gave Linda a tabby kitten named Jaws
fast forward to 16 years later, he did the contract, paid the deposit for their home etc...they must have celebrated his return in style because by this point their first born son was 14 and Jaws was getting old
At first they saw a vet who prescribed treatment for some minor renal problems but then the vet moved away and they saw a new vet
"Shyster" is probably the word I would use to describe the next vet.
He played shamefully (Like he had a sense of shame) on the fact that Linda always associated Jaws with the time when Jack was away it was always "This might work...there's another test we can do"
Alas Linda was clutching at straws about her beloved Jaws and the vet encouraged it when Jack asked what were the options and would it be kinder to have Jaws put to sleep, Linda gave him a look that suggested she would sooner have him put to sleep than Jaws and the vet immediately suggested another expensive course of treatment that might work
>From 18 to 20 Jaws had no real life at all. He sat on his bed, watching the other cats, ate now and again (On expensive food the vet suggested and sold of course!) staggered to his litter box now and again and once a month was carted to the vet who was still suggesting the next expensive treatment might do the trick and Linda could not accept the little kitten she'd been given all those years ago might be just old and ready to go and could not be returned to kittenhood.(Sometimes you can love TOO much) and still the vet was there with a ready smile and a chorus of "We could try this"
Aged 21, Jaws body finally decided it had had enough of being carted to the vet and not really living by this point the cat was on multiple medications, near blind, incontinent, hardly able to move because of severe arthritis, senile to the point where he would start to stagger to his feedbowl then forget where he was going...And still not more than a couple of weeks before his body asserted common sense the vet was still suggesting more tests or some new drugs
For a finale the vet charged for cremation and returning the ashes in a container with a little picture of Jaws as a kitten which fell off the container!
In total Jack spent 8,000 UK pounds or thereabouts maybe more.
Now it's not about money. When my beloved Fugazi was ill aged 12 I said to the vet (This is why we still use them) "Assume money is no object, we have overdrafts and credit cards and my brother is seriously rich (He's a yuppie but he does love cats) and will front me some cash if needs be...but what are the chances if we go all out she will either recover or at least have a few months of good quality life?"
And the vet said "Less than 5% she isn't suffering right now you could even take her home for a day or two to say goodbye but beyond that..."
So I weighed up the fact that she hadn't much liked the journey to the vets, if I took her home Dave would think she was okay until I had to tell him and could I handle knowing that two days from now I would have to bring her back?
And just said " Let's end it now"
Obviously I still wonder if we'd spent the money the 5% might have come through but at least the vet gave me an informed decision and I decided and she crossed the Bridge with her dignity intact unlike poor Jaws
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
Ben Goren - 27 Nov 2006 01:15 GMT > Now it's not about money. When my beloved Fugazi was ill aged 12 > I said to the vet (This is why we still use them) "Assume money > is no object [. . . .]" I don't feel like re-opening some rather fresh wounds with the details...but I have a similar story with the same outcome, which is why I'll be taking my next cat (whenever she and I find each other) back to Dr. Hummel...even though Joanie died in my arms by her hand.
(Well, to be fair, Dr. Hummel /did/ pull out some extra stops that last weekend...but, up until late on the last afternoon, we had good reason to think that it was worth it.)
Cheers,
b&
 Signature EAC Memographer BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy ``All but God can prove this sentence true.''
T - 27 Nov 2006 02:47 GMT > > I think you've encountered the new breed of veterinarians. They're all > > about the money, not about the health of the animal. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and the money would pay the deposit for their first home together and > furnishing it I snipped the story a bit to tell you my new practice with vets. I know my cat better than anyone and when it's time for him, I'll know it. The last remaining cat is 17, in good health, energetic, vocal as usual, eats well, etc.
But I know in a couple years I'm going to have to make the decision. I won't let a vet milk it for what it's worth. I've had Randy since I was 25 years old, he's a special cat to me, but after putting one cat down and having one die in the SO's arms, I now know when a cat is ready to go.
Outsider - 30 Nov 2006 01:44 GMT >> > I think you've encountered the new breed of veterinarians. They're all >> > about the money, not about the health of the animal. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > and having one die in the SO's arms, I now know when a cat is ready to > go. A good vet will treat you like a partner in your pets care not an observer.
barb - 25 Nov 2006 19:01 GMT I had this same problem with my Moonshines, Urinary Tract problem for 2 years, vet after vet. I finally got the vet I had been asking for but by the wrong name. I told him the situation and asked him to make up a treatment plan for her, but not the same old antibiotics because she was having recurrences before the antibiotics were even done. He put her on steroids for a few weeks, decreasing the dosage little by little. He also put her on Science Diet prescription for Urinary tract and she was cured. She lived another 10 years after all that.
-- Barb Of course I don't look busy, I did it right the first time.
Totalrod2@aol.com - 26 Nov 2006 03:53 GMT Thanks everyone for the replies! I'm located in Middleton, Massachusetts. Can I buy Science Diet without a doctor's presription? Today I stopped giving her the dry cat food. From what y'all are telling me it sounds like FIC is exactly what's wrong. The vets did a blood test, urine analysis, stool analysis, and suggested an MRI but they "couldn't guarantee it would show anything seeing as the other tests came back fine". So that's where I drew the line (mainly because we ran out of money!). Nonetheless, we did have the cat on Clavamox for 2 weeks and she seemed to do better, not peeing everywhere (as much) and when she did, the pee had little or NO blood in it at all. This made us think maybe it was a behavioral issue, until the blood returned. But this has gone on since we got her in 2004. Also, she's always licking her crotch...she must be in alot of pain down there. By the way, her name is Pussums. ?._.???`?._.???`?.???`?._.???`?._.? That's why I haven't mentioned her name very much. Bryan
Totalrod2@aol.com - 26 Nov 2006 05:41 GMT By the way, I do plan on finding another vet. But my father mentioned something this afternoon about HIS mother feeding scrambled eggs w/ hamburger to their pug, Didi (this was in the 1950's) and this dog had a similar problem with dry food. Granted, it was a dog, but there seems to be quite a bit of info online which says cats love scrambled eggs too. Is this something that could help my cat? Bryan
Rhonda - 26 Nov 2006 08:34 GMT Hi Bryan,
I don't think I followed your post below. I know your cat is having problems peeing everywhere with blood in the urine, but is she having problems eating too? I didn't get the reference to a problem with dry food.
By the way, is your cat spayed? If not, have they run tests for uterine problems?
I don't know about the eggs -- haven't heard of them helping cats with anything.
Good luck,
Rhonda
> By the way, I do plan on finding another vet. But my father mentioned > something this afternoon about HIS mother feeding scrambled eggs w/ [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > too. Is this something that could help my cat? > Bryan Totalrod2@aol.com - 26 Nov 2006 09:13 GMT No, she has no problems eating. But Phil P. mentioned feeding her just canned food from here on in. On a Saturday evening that's the one thing I can start doing right away. Anything else (like finding a new vet) will probably have to wait until Monday. I just wasn't sure if the scrambled eggs was some sort of an old fashioned remedy(?). Bryan
Lesley - 26 Nov 2006 11:27 GMT > Thanks everyone for the replies! I'm located in Middleton, > Massachusetts. Can I buy Science Diet without a doctor's presription? Yes I brought some yesterday in the UK it is only sold through vets though- don't know about over in the USA
I hope she gets better soon- . I had an episode of cystitis once many years ago and I can sure as Hell appreciate how she must feel. You want to go every 5 minutes even through you know you don't need to and boy it hurts!! It must be all of 15 years ago and I still wince at the memory! As a Human I can understand that where I go doesn't matter but she's trying places to find somewhere where it doesn't hurt. Believe me if I'd found peeing on the carpet was less painful the carpet would have had to be replaced!
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
KittiKat - 27 Nov 2006 02:55 GMT Hi There,
I can relate to shadey vet practices!!!!
My female has had some problem with stones and UTI discomfort and she is on Royal Canin Urinary SO, which is suppose to promote good urinary tract health in cats - When my cat got crystals at 6 months of age, the vet switched her over to this ASAP and said no more dry food, ever again, apparently the vet *said* her crystal count was the highest she'd seen in a kitten, ever (now if this is true, not sure). Even though canned food has high water content, I still add a bit to the food, as it doesn't hurt to help with diluting the urine. Below is the link for the food, it is available in the US as well. I think you may have to go into a vet's office to buy it, but in Canada, you can go in to any vet clinic and buy food - they want your business. They may ask if you are a client, even if you say no, they should still give it to you, I've never had issues, I buy from the cheapest clinic, sometimes they can get competitive with cat food pricing. Most food is out front for the client's - shouldn't be a big deal, here is the weblink for the food if you want to look it up:
http://www.walthamusa.com/Learning%20Center/SO30-canned.html
Hope the switch helps!
> > Thanks everyone for the replies! I'm located in Middleton, > > Massachusetts. Can I buy Science Diet without a doctor's presription? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Slave of the Fabulous Furballs Totalrod2@aol.com - 27 Nov 2006 04:52 GMT Here's a picture of Pussums. BTW, we all thought it was pretty darn funny when I named her that at the time. But now I wish I hadn't. Too late, the last thing she needs is to be even more confused by a name change! http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/totalrod2/DSC_0121.jpg?t=1164599763
-L. - 27 Nov 2006 10:25 GMT > Here's a picture of Pussums. BTW, we all thought it was pretty darn > funny when I named her that at the time. But now I wish I hadn't. Too > late, the last thing she needs is to be even more confused by a name > change! > http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/totalrod2/DSC_0121.jpg?t=1164599763 Did you declaw her or was it already done when you got her?
-L.
Totalrod2@aol.com - 27 Nov 2006 18:32 GMT How did you know that? No I wouldn't do that to a cat. She was already declawed when I got her. She's got free reign to every room in our (BIG) house. We're actually going to be moving to York, South Carolina in a couple of months. She isn't not going to like the drive down there AT ALL ! If I could find her a loving home here, it might probably be for the best. It won't be until next year though (February / March). If not, she's definately coming with us....I have not intentions of surrendering her to a kennel. Is anyone here from Massachusetts? Bryan Lord
Matthew - 27 Nov 2006 18:41 GMT > How did you know that? I can answer that you can see it in the picture her paws are extended in a stretch motion and there is no claw tips
> No I wouldn't do that to a cat. She was already declawed when I got > her. She's got free reign to every room in our (BIG) house. We're [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > surrendering her to a kennel. Is anyone here from Massachusetts? > Bryan Lord -L. - 27 Nov 2006 23:43 GMT > > How did you know that? > > I can answer that you can see it in the picture her paws are extended in a > stretch motion and there is no claw tips No, the paws/toes look short because they are amputated. You wouldn't see claw tips on a long-haired cat, anyway, unless they were extremely long.
-L.
Matthew - 27 Nov 2006 23:46 GMT >> > How did you know that? >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > -L. Huh I learn something new everyday. I guessed my way your is also an easy way to do it.
So I take it you like my picture of Ka'Shay and Spirit :-)
-L. - 27 Nov 2006 23:42 GMT > How did you know that? I can tell by the appearance of her feet.
> No I wouldn't do that to a cat. She was already declawed when I got > her. She's got free reign to every room in our (BIG) house. We're [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > surrendering her to a kennel. Is anyone here from Massachusetts? > Bryan Lord I moved my cats from Indiana to NC to CA to OR - no need to rehome her. Look into interstitial cystitis like Phil said - I will bet that is her problem.
-L.
jmc - 28 Nov 2006 11:30 GMT Suddenly, without warning, Totalrod2@aol.com exclaimed (28-Nov-06 4:02 AM):
> How did you know that? > No I wouldn't do that to a cat. She was already declawed when I got [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > surrendering her to a kennel. Is anyone here from Massachusetts? > Bryan Lord Short move, I'd say. If she's an older cat or if you haven't got her cystitis sorted out by then, I'd get a decent vet's advice, as I did for Meep's most recent adventure (She's 10 now, and as I posted earlier, has had cystitis attacks in the past).
Meep the TravelCat has moved extensively, she's done overseas moves four times so far, and a fifth is in her future (we do have to go home someday). She's also traveled all over Britain (she likes Scotland, there's hardly anybody there <g>), and has also crossed the US with us as well.
jmc
Catjoy - 28 Nov 2006 16:34 GMT Hi Bryan,
Sorry to hear about the troubles you and Pussums have been going through! Those vets were idiots. Glad to hear you are in the midst of switching.
Anyway, in regard to the canned food, I would personally recommend Wellness - it's available at quite a few pet stores in North America. It has high qualilty ingredients and no grains. I think cats *need* wet food to maintain optimal health, whether they suffer from FIC or not. Years ago, before I knew better, I used to feed my cats dry. After I learned about how cats require moisture/water content in their food, I switched to wet, and the difference (condition-wise) was tremendous. Wet food does cost more, but it is definitely worth it when you consider kitty's well-being and savings in vet bills.
Hope you will post an update on Pussums soon. She's a beauty. Though I don't have any first-hand experience of FIC, it can be treated, so don't give up!
Good luck.
boot - 30 Nov 2006 03:52 GMT Take her to the Tufts Veterinary School Clinic. Schedule Appointments (Monday thru Fri, 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.) 508-839-5395
On Nov 24, 7:30 pm, Totalr...@aol.com wrote:
> I just need to vent. I love my cat so much, but she's peeing everywhere > (including in her box where she KNOWS she's supposed to be going). [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > else ever been in this situation? > Bryan
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