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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / January 2005This is not acceptable
For anyone that feels strongly against declawing, please call or email Best Friends Animal Sanctuary and let them know this kind of advice from their vet has no place on their website, and it's not the first time: http://www.bestfriends.org/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=12735&sessionID={A8AD8878-F6 C3-4667-9495-077392051ECD} Phone: (435) 644-2001 Fax: (435) 644-2078 e-mail: info@bestfriends.org >From: "Karen M." mskitty@NOSPAMeasystreet.com >For anyone that feels strongly against declawing, please call or email >Best Friends Animal Sanctuary and let them know this kind of advice from [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Fax: (435) 644-2078 >e-mail: info@bestfriends.org I joined that site so I could reply to the idiot vet there, and I will be emailing as well. Gack!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope everyone will give that so-called vet a word or two. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > http://www.bestfriends.org/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=12735&sessionID={A8AD > 8878-F6C3-4667-9495-077392051ECD} I'm confused. This just seems to be a message board and not a vet article? Karen >From: Karen Chuplis kchuplis@alltel.net >I'm confused. This just seems to be a message board and not a vet article? No, I didn't see an article either, but the vet did post. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >>http://www.bestfriends.org/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=12735&sessionID={A8AD >>8878-F6C3-4667-9495-077392051ECD} > > I'm confused. This just seems to be a message board and not a vet article? > > Karen No, it's not an article. but it's a vet who, unfortunately, persuades hundreds of people every day that declawing is acceptable. She also says Friskies is better than say, Wellness or Innova, but that's a completely different story there.... > She also says > Friskies is better than say, Wellness or Innova, but that's a completely > different story there....0 So she's that one in the nine-out-of-ten statistics. Displeased to meet her.  SignatureDennis Carr - ke6isf@spamcop.net | I may be out of my mind, http://www.dennis.furtopia.org | But I have more fun that way. ------------------------------------+------------------------------- >>http://www.bestfriends.org/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=12735&sessionID={A8AD >>8878-F6C3-4667-9495-077392051ECD} > > I'm confused. This just seems to be a message board and not a vet article? > > Karen Let me also add that I don't think posting to the board is going to be the best course of action, because a lot of times people who disagree with her get their posts pulled but I think email, letters or calls would hopefully get the people who run BFAS to rethink the free rein she gets on there. :( > Let me also add that I don't think posting to the board is going to be > the best course of action, because a lot of times people who disagree > with her get their posts pulled but I think email, letters or calls > would hopefully get the people who run BFAS to rethink the free rein she > gets on there. :( Not necessarily. I saw what they were doing - Lauren there got her reprimand with a pointer that she was a new user. So they pulled that card on her. I hate to cast a cloud on this, but odds are incredibly good that any phone calls or direct emails to these people will largely go ignored. One, there is the new user factor, and two, there is the fact that this is, after all, a doctor - albeit not one I would trust for medical advice, to be perfectly frank. The short of it is that the admins of this service, like any other moderated service, can pretty much do whatever they want - and unfortunately, unless it's illegal, no matter how wrong the information is, this is something that they as the admins have the right to do. There are no laws stating you cannot post bogus data on the 'net. Further, the only thing arguing on this board is going to prove in this case is that n parties are arguing. My suggestion thusly is to take the high road and let them have the last word. (OK, OK, I know, everyone wants to get the last word in - but last word does not prove superiority.) SignatureDennis Carr - ke6isf@spamcop.net | I may be out of my mind, http://www.dennis.furtopia.org | But I have more fun that way. ------------------------------------+------------------------------- >From: Dennis Carr ke6isf@spamcop.net >There are no laws stating you cannot post bogus data on the 'net. >Further, the only thing arguing on this board is going to prove in this >case is that n parties are arguing. My suggestion thusly is to take the >high road and let them have the last word. I understand what you're saying, Dennis. But on the other hand, I feel that by not saying anything, it only perpetuates the myths, misinformation and worst of all, the cruelty of declawing. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: "Karen M." mskitty@NOSPAMeasystreet.com >Let me also add that I don't think posting to the board is going to be >the best course of action, because a lot of times people who disagree >with her get their posts pulled but I think email, letters or calls >would hopefully get the people who run BFAS to rethink the free rein she >gets on there. :( I was surprised my posts didn't get pulled - thus far anyway. One of them really defended that idiot vet saying how she volunteers her time, blah blah blah. It seems the people there blindly follow this assh*le vet. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >>From: "Karen M." mskitty@NOSPAMeasystreet.com > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm Yeah, I've gotten "reprimanded" two or three times for arguing with Dr. Dipshit so I don't post on there anymore. I just hate to see her posting such utter nonsense and anyone who disagrees with her just gets chastised or has their posts removed! It's ridiculous. > Yeah, I've gotten "reprimanded" two or three times for arguing with Dr. > Dipshit so I don't post on there anymore. I just hate to see her posting > such utter nonsense and anyone who disagrees with her just gets > chastised or has their posts removed! It's ridiculous. Is it the yahoo forum? That is the only one I saw. SignatureCheryl >From: Cheryl jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com >> Yeah, I've gotten "reprimanded" two or three times for arguing with Dr. >> Dipshit so I don't post on there anymore. I just hate to see her posting >> such utter nonsense and anyone who disagrees with her just gets >> chastised or has their posts removed! It's ridiculous. > >Is it the yahoo forum? That is the only one I saw. It's the forum for Best Friends. I was severely chastised for posting there and then told I was on probation, LOL. I told them to stick it where the sun don't shine. Shame on that organization for promoting declawing! Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: Cheryl jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm I am on the Best Friends mailing list and have sent donations in the past. I am going to write to them and tell them to take my name off their mailing list -- and I will be very explicit in telling them that they have lost all donations because of their stance on declawing. I never did send large donations, but enough letters like this might have an effect. MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") > > >From: Cheryl jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) > http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") Just to be clear, it's not BF's stance, it's the vet that answers questions on the board and some of the forum admins that advocate the "better declaw than lose a home" stance... I just don't understand why they tolerate it... ??? > > > >From: Cheryl jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > "better declaw than lose a home" stance... I just don't understand why > they tolerate it... ??? Thanks. I guess this means I need to ask some questions before I take such a strong position. I would still like to know how Lauren was placed "on probation." I wonder who makes those decisions ...Is it part of Best Friends or somehow independent? MaryL >From: "MaryL" carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER > I would still like to know how Lauren was placed "on >probation." I wonder who makes those decisions ...Is it part of Best >Friends or somehow independent? It was through their board on their website through their administrator. She sent me an email saying: As I also posted in this morning's message: "While our members are in the forum they are guests of Best Friends Animal Society which hosts the forum. As our guests we do expect our members to abide by a few simple guidelines ." Please show me by your future behavior that you are deserving of our hospitality." I guess my posting facts about declawing was considered inhospitable. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "MaryL" carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm Thanks for the information. I am going to write a letter this weekend to express my displeasure with their attitude (and the basis for my decision not make any additional donations). May I have your permission to mention the message you received from them, or would you prefer not to be quoted? MaryL >From: "MaryL" carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER >May I have your permission to mention >the message you received from them, or would you prefer not to be quoted? Since it was a private email, it might be better not to mention it. You could just say you've "heard" things and also that you've been reading their forum maybe? I'd be really interested to see what kind of response you get. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "MaryL" carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm Okay, that's what I'll do. I hope I get a response. MaryL I guess you guys haven't read the news lately about Best Friends. The founders have a history that isn't conducive to running an animal sanctuary! They were The Process Church of the Final Judgement, a satanic cult! Here's the Denver newspaper article http://bestfriends.nexuswebs.net/media/article22804.html Then listen to the radio interviews from last week with investigators talking about animal mutilation and murder! Excerpt: Friends find their calling By Lou Kilzer, Rocky Mountain News February 28, 2004 One of the world's most admired animal sanctuaries has a skeleton tucked deep in its closet - one with a history worthy of its own miniseries. The Best Friends Animal Society runs the nation's largest "no-kill" shelter in Utah and raised $19.9 million last year alone. But more than three decades ago, its key founders formed a movement that was accused - falsely, they say - of being a satanic cult. http://bestfriends.nexuswebs.net/media/article22804.html __________________________________ WE HAVE TO STOP THEM! Bravecats > > >From: "MaryL" carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > MaryL >From: research1usa@hotmail.com (BravecatsVoice) >The >founders have a history that isn't conducive to running an animal >sanctuary! They were The Process Church of the Final Judgement, a >satanic cult! OMG, no way!!!! ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: research1usa@hotmail.com (BravecatsVoice) > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm I did a quick google search last night for Best Friends after I saw the latest message in this thread. I came up with some very positive messages and also some very negative (in fact, frightening messages). Some messages indicated a link with Scientology. Many of the negative messages were posted by a "T.P. McKinney" or had messages from him interspersed in the thread. Here's one example: http://tinyurl.com/34g95. I didn't learn anything more about T.P. McKinney or about who he refers to as "we" are who are doing "investigative research," but whole thing raises lots more questions than answers. Something "reeks," and it's difficult to know which side of the issue is causing it. I know that I am not going to donate from now on -- the web site that started this thread had already led to that conclusion, and I was going to write a letter of protest. Now, I think I would prefer just to stay clear of the whole thing. I have lots of other good organizations on my list that can use donations (including our local O'Malley Alley Cats). MaryL >From: "MaryL" carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER > Now, I think I >would prefer just to stay clear of the whole thing. I have lots of other >good organizations on my list that can use donations (including our local >O'Malley Alley Cats). Good idea, Mary. I give to the rescue where we adopted Mickey and Meesha from. They are an excellent group of really caring people. I think it's weird how there is so much negative stuff about Best Friends. I would steer clear of them too. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > > >From: research1usa@hotmail.com (BravecatsVoice) > > > >The > > >founders have a history that isn't conducive to running an animal > > >sanctuary! They were The Process Church of the Final Judgement, a > > >satanic cult! Actually, The Process, Church of the Final Judgment is defined by those who do not know or care to know the truth as a satanic cult. Processeans are Pantheists, a belief that the sum total of all existence equals GOD. Thus every molecule of existence contains the creative energy of GOD, be it judged by us to be good or evil (or whatever). Everything has a GOD-given purpose/function by the direct will of GOD. You can hate a persons' actions but not the person. This is the opposite of the accepted Christian practice of 'hating the devil' (Christ said "Love your enemies".) The Book of Job clearly shows God conversing repeatedly with Satan. The Process has not and does not take part in any satanic rituals. What we do recognize is that Satan and Christ are an integral part of GOD's will/intention and have a Divine Purpose in the Universe. Since this whole 'expose' has begun I have read many peoples posts passing judgment on The Process and have answered many. I have invited people to check out The Process group, http://groups.msn.com/TheProcess , and read our Teachings and ask any questions they like. I would recommend reading Logics 1-7 first. To date not even one person has asked any questions on the site concerning this matter. There are several people who were part of The Process, including myself, who will be happy to address any concerns you may have. The Process group can be viewed by the general public as we have nothing to hide The people at Best Friends renounced Process Teachings back in 1974. In some ways this makes me question if they ever believed in our Teachings. > > OMG, no way!!!! > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > MaryL I have asked Mr McKinney to make public the proof he claims to have but have yet to see it materialize. Somehow I feel that the truth is not what he is looking for. Angela Sorry, but you are so wrong. The vets must sign a contract to not even treat an animal without the approval of a non-vet founder's son. It's about money, folks. And it's totally false that vets donate their time at the sanctuary. They have 2 vets for 1800 animals! Yet they had an excess of $5 million last year. If you think the forum, which is run out of the sanctuary, is controlled how do you think they pull off a national talk radio show that encourages call-ins yet is prerecorded? Hummmm The calls-ins are employees that are made to do it! http://bestfriends.nexuswebs.net > > > >From: Cheryl jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > "better declaw than lose a home" stance... I just don't understand why > they tolerate it... ??? circa 24 Apr 2004 22:27:13 -0700, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, BravecatsVoice (research1usa@hotmail.com) said, > If you think the forum, which is run out of the sanctuary, is > controlled how do you think they pull off a national talk radio show > that encourages call-ins yet is prerecorded? Hummmm The calls-ins are > employees that are made to do it! > > http://bestfriends.nexuswebs.net Without taking a stance either way as to whether or not the accusations are true, I would point out that nexuswebs is simply a web hosting service, which means that the source for the above could be a legitimate entity, or could be a complete kook. Do you have any more reliable sources for this information, such as a newswire? Thanks, Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > It's the forum for Best Friends. I was severely chastised for posting > there and then told I was on probation, LOL. I told them to stick it > where the sun don't shine. Shame on that organization for promoting > declawing! Ok, I'll have to look again. Thanks Lauren. SignatureCheryl > For anyone that feels strongly against declawing, please call or email > Best Friends Animal Sanctuary and let them know this kind of advice from [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Fax: (435) 644-2078 > e-mail: info@bestfriends.org Hate-filled propaganda-spewing bigot. I just visited it and told them that I am in full support. Just so you know, nutcase. Like you got nothing else in life to worry about.. IBen G. First may I say, I am saddened that animal lovers who are working tirelessly to make the world a better place for own pets and for the lives of those with no voice and no name, that we are wasting time tearing each other down and spreading rumors and half truths. It hurts us and more importantly, it hurts the animals. Next, since I live in Utah, I have been able to visit Best Friend's on numerous occasions and personally witness the amazing work they are doing. In regards to "declawing", I do know that Best Friend's will NOT let you adopt one of it's cats if you plan on having this procedure done. Part of the adoption process, questions are asked about declawing, if your cat will be indoors only, and so forth. This weeds out many applicants. All efforts are made to ensure any cat adopted will have a great home - claws intact!! And last, the founders of Best Friends have been upfront about their beginnings. It is posted on their website at bestfriends.org/aboutus/oldhistory/intro.htm In many regards, Best Friend's founders were indeed "flower children of the sixties". They had radical thoughts like "kindeness to animals makes a better world for all of us", and "working together, we can change the world". Radical, I guess so. I have read T.P. McKinney's comments and I would like to know more about him (or her). He hides behind a screen name and spews hatred. What is his motivation? May I say to him (or her)- It is easier to sit back and throw barbs at others then to affect real change in the world. For me, I am not wasting any more time on half truths and fear mongering. I have important things to do like try to make the world a better place and support those who have the same vision.
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