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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / November 2006BIRMAN WITH RINGWORM
Hi Folks, Once we got confirmation of diagnosis that our Birman seal tabby did in fact have ringworm,&also our seal point little birman girl too...we have issolated them from the others individualy & sought treatment for ourselves too.We have all got to be treated as a precautionary measure(now done over the last 24hours,we moved on to phase two.) After a really busy day of doing room cleans,from ceiling to floor tiles,furniture,bedding,toys..in fact everything that the cats go near or on in the house,we have reached the point where all of the cats bedding is on a very hot wash in the washing machine,& we are ready to treat the cats with their medication as well.The tablets are no problem @ all,but we are in a bit of a quandery as to how we apply the lotion that we were given to smother all the cats with...our only problem is that we have had conflicting advice as to proceed.One vet has told us that we have to shave our cats,but another has told us that it is not necessary to do so;all that we need to do is wash them in the lotion(which I dread wholheartedly I might add,because one of them hates water with a passion).I have the lampshades/collars,(sorry I don't know the technical name for them.)... ready also,so that they cant nibble away @ themselves after treatment.I just thought I would check it out with everyone before treating them as It would be an utter waste of time and money if we do the wrong thing-Does anyone know for sure?Being winter here,I'm a bit reluctant to shave them if it is not required,however,If it is in thier best interest,I *will* of course do so!I just want to be sure before going ahead with such a drastic action..(can you imagine a birman with no coat???)And if we do have to go ahead with it,any tips on how not to get clawed to pieces would also be invaluable too please?Thanks every one! Hi Sheelagh, me again (get it? oh I'm so funny I know) Anyway :) I wouldnt shave;pneumonia is far worse than ringworm. With bathing them, here are some tips. I am presuming you are using a shampoo that you need to leave on for 10 minutes then wash off? Ok firstly, claw clip all cats that need washing. If you really feel you need to shave them, I would clip them instead as they are long hairs, down to half the normal fur length. This might make it easier to get the shampoo coverage. Ringworm doesnt attach the hair, but the skin and the hair follicle so you need to ensure the shampoo covers the skin and undercoat thoroughly, not just the topcoat. Ok, after claw clipping all your cats (back and dewclaws too...you'de be surprised) it will help if you have one of those extendable shower hoses. Warm up the bathroom, and put old clothes on; you are going to get wet. If you have no extendable shower hose, stand a bucket of warm water, two in fact as you have long haireds, and you'll need a sponge or flannel and a jug for pouring. Stand in the bath and stand the cat in front of you. Grasp the front legs in one hand, pinning them together. Try and grasp near to the body, and watch out for rabbit kicks from the back legs. Start by sponging off, using the flannel or sponge to try and work the water into the fur. If the cat becomes too agitated, let them have a cool off for a few seconds, then grab them again. After getting them thoroughly wet, shampoo, let it rest and then grasp them again, and pour warm water over them as quickly as possible as they will be thoroughly cheesed off by now, rinse as much as possible off using the jug; quick is the trick here. Then towel dry and let them dry off in a warm place....no draughts is the key here more than warmth; a cold draught in a warm room is just as dangerous as a cold room. With kittens, wash them in the kitchen sink, lots of warm water, and keep them as calm as possible; negative experiences with water at this age will give them a greater fear of water. Try not to get the head going under, or they will panic. Dip them in slowly and gently, stopping if they begin panicking, and use a face flannel to wet the areas like the head without the kitten panicking overly. best wishes. > Hi Folks, > Once we got confirmation of diagnosis that our Birman seal tabby did in > fact have ringworm,&also our seal point little birman girl too... Program. Google it and "ringworm". Anything else is a waste of time and money. -L. > Hi Folks, > Once we got confirmation of diagnosis that our Birman seal tabby did in [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > go ahead with it,any tips on how not to get clawed to pieces would also > be invaluable too please?Thanks every one! Hello Sheelagh, Cider Vinegar! The ringworm is a fungus not a worm, as I understand it, and as such doesn't like acidic environments. For yourselves, take a teaspoon in warm water with honey to sweeten if you fancy. For all four paws, mix 3 or 4 drops in an ounce or so of butter and dab a little on a paw, then they have to like it off. Frez > Hi Folks, > Once we got confirmation of diagnosis that our Birman seal tabby did in [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > go ahead with it,any tips on how not to get clawed to pieces would also > be invaluable too please?Thanks every one! Hi Fez, thanks very much for the input,all advice is gadly aceppeted.I have had a fantastic response with regard to the poor moggies.I will give it a go as well as the conventional drugs too as It might help it go a bit faster.Your right,it is a fungal infestation & highly contageous too.We have all started treatment(In fact all of the room cleansing has been completed as well as the pens also),so all we have to do now is keep up the medication & be very vigilant with the other cats.Only 2of them have it so far thankgoodness so far.I also wnet out this morning and invested in a small u.v light so that I can check all 6of the cats on a regular basis too.As I understand it,when the cats do contract ringworm,the light turns the affected patch green,so you can tell who has and also who hasn't contracted it? All human residents have been treated so now just a matter of ensuring that the cats take thier medication every day,& making sure that we are slowly getting rid of it. I washed the cats down this morning with the treatment the vet gave us(no easy task I might add!!).Biffy scratched me to pieces & won't be forgeting his grudge in the immediate future either,but it was no where near as bad as I anticipated.We decided that the best place to treat them was in the shower where there was no escape for them,unless they could clear 7feet high,over the shower door.It worked ever so well,so if anyone of you out there ever has to go through this very unfortunate situation,then do try this method.There might be a few hiss's and spitting,but in the end,they all calmed down & enjoyed tyhe attention as soon as they realised that we meant them no harm(having bever washed them before!)..Washing their faces was the hardest bit;they hated it!But needs must,& I am sure that poor Tiggie will be feeling a lot better soon. Has anyone got any idea how long it will be until she will resist the need to nibble her rump at all?She has been fitted with one of those collars that prevent them from reaching to nibble it & it is driving her potty!!!!I hope it isn't too long as I really do feel for her...doesn't dead eye from a cat look eveil when they hate you?!!!! :o( > Hello Sheelagh, [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > go ahead with it,any tips on how not to get clawed to pieces would also > > be invaluable too please?Thanks every one! > Hi Fez, > thanks very much for the input,all advice is gadly aceppeted.I have had [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > ringworm,the light turns the affected patch green,so you can tell who > has and also who hasn't contracted it? Not always. Not all forms of ringworm fluoresce. Ringworm is actually a dermatophyte - a plant. It is treated like a fungus, however. > All human residents have been treated so now just a matter of ensuring > that the cats take thier medication every day,& making sure that we are [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > her potty!!!!I hope it isn't too long as I really do feel for > her...doesn't dead eye from a cat look eveil when they hate you?!!!! Unless you shave the areas where the lesions are, and treat it with an antifungal such as Lotrimin gel, topical treatments are unlikely to work and will take as much as a 6-8 weeks or more to work. Are the cats on an oral antifungal? If not, buy some Program and treat them with it at home. It comes in chewable form. The dosage is 44mg/lb (double check this via Google - I might be wrong) and you will need to do two treatments one month apart. After that, the cats can have the regular monthy dosage for cats. I administered mine by mixing in a bit of tuna - the cat ate it right away. It not only prevents the ringworm from growing (it is a chitin inhibitor), it seems to make the cat feel better as well, almost immediately. -L. Hi Sheelagh, I really feel for you and all your four paws. I don't know much about the UV light but I know the Cider Vinegar worked a treat on my little guy who has Leukemia. I didn't want to stress him out any more than was necessary with more medication etc. so sought the complimentary route. I have only used the vinegar mixed with butter for the little guy to take internally however you can use vinegar externally on healthy cats (not cuts obviously!), it gives their coats a wonderfully healthy gleam, use only in very small quantities, a few drops mixed in at least 50ml of water with a drop or two of lemon oil helps keep fleas at bay! Program is the old flea treatment I was thinking of the other day, this I used in conjunction with the vinegar. I agree with you, the look from any cat with one of those collars on is awful. If it's any comfort my little guy, Munchkin, stopped licking and nibbling in a couple of days. Frez > Hi Fez, > thanks very much for the input,all advice is gadly aceppeted.I have had [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > > go ahead with it,any tips on how not to get clawed to pieces would also > > > be invaluable too please?Thanks every one! Hi, about the Program; I am currently having to give Grisofulven to my older kittens, nothing else is working as I caught it too late and it is very hot and humid here. However with the smaller ones is Program safe to use? From what age? I will be doing preventative as much as possible on the littlies, however most stuff is too toxic to use. What age would you start using Program, safety wise? I didnt know about this use for program and would love to switch them all to it as Griso is pretty harsh to livers and works slowly, meaning they must be on it for longer. Any advice appreciated :) > Hi, about the Program; I am currently having to give Grisofulven to my older > kittens, nothing else is working as I caught it too late and it is very hot > and humid here. However with the smaller ones is Program safe to use? From > what age? I will be doing preventative as much as possible on the littlies, > however most stuff is too toxic to use. What age would you start using > Program, safety wise? I forget the package label instructions, but I think it is 12 weeks. > I didnt know about this use for program and would love > to switch them all to it as Griso is pretty harsh to livers and works > slowly, meaning they must be on it for longer. Any advice appreciated :) Program has no activity in animals so I *assume* it would be safe to dose kittens (that meet the minimal treatment age) for ringworm as you do adults. You might ask your vet about it. If I get any time today I will do a literature search for you. I have had awesome luck with Program, as have others I know, but you need to make sure the ringworm is GONE before you stop treatment. That's why I kept my cat on the regular dose for 6 months after the initial ringworm dosages. -L. I asked about grisofulven,but was prescribed Sporal D for the furry-freinds.I have never heard of this one before,has anyone else as I was wondering about its effectivness?Is program a preventative treatment,or active treatment(forgive my ignorance!)If there thanks for small mercy's,it is that we don't have any kittens presently.I did't realise that it could take up to 12 weeks to get them clear of it..??!But needs be as they say,we will do what is nessacery to get shot of it. On a differnt thread,I have Jasper sitting on my knee helping me type.We have had an excellent day today.I took him to the meadow where we sat & rummbled about better times with plenty of head rubs,knee weaving & deep throated purrs too-we had a brilliant time there & I will remember it fondly.He is booked in to see the vet just before dinner tomorrow.I know that it will be desperately sad,but a release for him.Please think of him as fondly as we do & thanks for all the support too > > Hi, about the Program; I am currently having to give Grisofulven to my older > > kittens, nothing else is working as I caught it too late and it is very hot [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > -L. I'm so sorry about Jasper, but I think you're doing the right thing. If I were in your position; I would rather give my old friend a dignified and comfortable entry to the rainbow bridge than have him go in pain and confusion. He will go quietly, and know he is loved. About the Sporal; lucky you! I was told that Sporal is better as less liver damage risks but for some reason we can't get it here. A breeder I know was able to get some once but hasn't been since; it might be a region thing; eastern australia seems to be behind the times with many vet practises compared to western australia and the rest of the world (early desexing for example) Thank you all so much for your kind words,they were a great comfort in a time of need.We took him and all petted him,then I was allowed to hold him as he was given the medication,so he went from me straight to the rainbow bridge.It was utterly devastating as we expected,but as it was also a calm loving experience too.I couldn't have asked for a kinder understanding vet(my own is away presently),who was very accomadating &thoughtful as well. We have just had a little service for him where we buried him under his favourite sunbathing site,in the shade of the butterfly tree.It was extreemly moving,but I am also glad that it is all over now as the climax to it was worse than the reality of the experinece.I know he will never suffer any pain ever again & will be @ peace now.He was a treasured friend & I hope that one day we will meet again. On the sporal D.I am not sure about the ins and outs of his-But I have heared several other freinds talk about getting prescription medications for their pets on line.As I understand it,there are vets that you can talk to who will dispense on line for you as long as you are certain that you know what is wrong,& have had a diagnosis from your own vet prior to asking them??Does anyone else know a bit more about this one that might be able to help you? > I'm so sorry about Jasper, but I think you're doing the right thing. If I > were in your position; I would rather give my old friend a dignified and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > compared to western australia and the rest of the world (early desexing for > example) > I asked about grisofulven,but was prescribed Sporal D for the > furry-freinds.I have never heard of this one before,has anyone else as > I was wondering about its effectivness? Highly effective. It stops the growth of the dermatophyte. >Is program a preventative > treatment,or active treatment(forgive my ignorance! Both. You use it at a high doasage to get rid of the ringworm and then at a lower dosage to prevent reinfection. >)If there thanks for > small mercy's,it is that we don't have any kittens presently.I did't [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > for him.Please think of him as fondly as we do & thanks for all the > support too Sorry to hear you will euthanize your friend. It is a loving choice - probably the most loving thing you will ever do for him. -L. >> Hi, about the Program; I am currently having to give Grisofulven to my >> older [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > -L. Thanks that information is VERY useful; I am not sure why my vet didnt tell me; I presume he either wasnt aware or believed it might not help in our humid hot climate. I will ask the vet, but it would be great to have a less toxic thing to give the kittens. Thanks again, much appreciated!! > Thanks that information is VERY useful; I am not sure why my vet didnt tell > me; I presume he either wasnt aware or believed it might not help in our > humid hot climate. I will ask the vet, but it would be great to have a less > toxic thing to give the kittens. Thanks again, much appreciated!! This is an off-label use and so some vets don't discuss it with patients. If they haven't tried it they won't be supportive of it. Also, you can buy Program OTC so they lose the revenue if you treat with Program - some vets won't tell you because of that. -L. >> Thanks that information is VERY useful; I am not sure why my vet didnt >> tell [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > -L. Ok...that explains a lot :) I don't see any reason not to prescribe an OTC drug for something simple like ringworm. But that's vets for you. I guess they worry that you would overdose the cat then sue them or something. Thanks a heap for this advice, it is invaluable :) > Ok...that explains a lot :) I don't see any reason not to prescribe an OTC > drug for something simple like ringworm. But that's vets for you. I guess > they worry that you would overdose the cat then sue them or something. > Thanks a heap for this advice, it is invaluable :) Program has no activity in mammals - I don't think you *could* OD a cat with it, from a practical standpoint. -L. >> Ok...that explains a lot :) I don't see any reason not to prescribe an >> OTC [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -L. Thanks, that's great to know...certainly better than Grisofulven..yuk. Anyway I blacklighted them all again last night, and most of them are not glowing Yay!! The hardest hit ones still have a few patches, so they are still quarantined away from the kids, and a few of the adults have small patches, mainly on the ears, that I've treated and will check again tonight. I wish I'd known about the program before starting them on the griso though. My little girl is still wheezing a bit despite the antibiotics so I'll keep her on them til she recovers; she's gaining weight though, which is a good indication it's working. The bug, whatever it is, seems to cause weight loss so as she's putting on weight I will keep an eye on her but I'm not too worried. It's very warm and humid at the moment, so she's not going to catch a chill, and she has stopped coughing thank goodness!!!! It's so worrying when your babies are ill.... Hi Fez, would the cider vinegar also help as a topical wash? Or is it best when given internally? Thanks :) > Hello Sheelagh, > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> go ahead with it,any tips on how not to get clawed to pieces would also >> be invaluable too please?Thanks every one! > Hello Sheelagh, > > Cider Vinegar! The ringworm is a fungus not a worm, as I understand it, > and as such doesn't like acidic environments. This is completely NOT true. Fungi thrive in acidic environments. Furthermore, acetic acid (vinegar) will burn raw, open skin. DO NOT use vinegar on a cat! There is huge difference between taking vinegar internally and using it externally. -L. Hi,I was wondering if weight loss is normally associated with ringworm,as little Tiggie doesn't seem to be gaining any weight what ever I feed her.Since collecting her,she has actually lost 250grams which is quite worrying..! I have given her a dry diet of kitten royal canin which is what she is used to eating &also available all the time to her,& on the advice of my vet,also supplemented it with fresh chicken & rice(cooked!),as well as the occasional treat of some fresh fish too.She eats quite well at each sitting,but still not gaining any weight,so I am at a bit of a loss as to what to do for her-any suggestions gratefuly accepted(I am feeding her seperately from the others just to be certain that I know exactly how much she is eating by the way too).Thanks > > Hello Sheelagh, > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > -L. > Hi,I was wondering if weight loss is normally associated with > ringworm,as little Tiggie doesn't seem to be gaining any weight what [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > feeding her seperately from the others just to be certain that I know > exactly how much she is eating by the way too).Thanks It can cause loss of appetite, especially with the meds she is on. I would switch her to a canned food - it is much better for them for a number of reasons but if she has loss of appetite you want to gwet her to eat as much as she will. -L.
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