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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / October 2006Trap, neuter, release roundup
The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday. The Cat haven worker who originally gave me the dates had incorrect information on when, but everything else was correct. We had some surprises, a more complete effort for the first day, and a few new faces in the traps who seem to have kept themselves out of sight previously. Scruffy, the most battle scarred and wary of the crew was a concern. I didn't think he'd be likely to come near the traps after all the human commotion. He actually walked into one while the humane society worker was still here and was straddling the pedal in the trap, eating away. I was able to reach past him with a stick and trigger the trap. Easy one! Bubbles, domesticated as they get, and housebroken, surprised us all. The HS worker tried to transfer him from a trap to a carrier. He did one of those notorious feline liquid pretzel moves and got away. I managed to call him back a short while later and get him in a carrier. Boy was he pissed when he figured out what I was doing. As soon as the door was closed, he lunged at me, slapping front paws down with his head and ears lowered, hissing and obviously not happy. Spook, brother of Bubbles, was figured for a difficult catch but really put up a hell of a fight. He wanted nothing to do with the traps, no matter what bait was in them. He finally took an offering of dry food on the ground. I was able to sneak up on him and pick him up. He was fairly cool about it until a carrier was placed on the ground, then all hell broke loose. It ended with me having to pin one front leg up alongside his head while isolating his rear legs at the hip. It took one more set of hands to manage him and another to hold the carrier. He struggled all the way, and everybody involved bled a little. He was finally in with no harm. Mr. Jingles was also figured for a tough catch, but surprised everyone. He accepted an offer of dry food, allowed himself to be picked up and loaded into a carrier without any struggle at all. He even turned around in the carrier and accepted head scritches through the grille. Most of the rest went without incident. the litter of 4 kittens wasn't too bad either. They're about 5 months old now. Two went in the traps almost right away. The other two were hard sell after witnessing most of the others being caught. They kept circling the traps, trying to fish the food out through the sides and back of the trap, but wouldn't venture inside. After a few hours, I placed a hot chicken wing about halfway into the trap, where it could be reached without tripping the thing. Sure enough, one of them went for it. Now that he had confidence he could get it, take the food and escape, I placed the next wing up beyond the trip pedal. Sure thing - he went in and set off the trap. Lather, rinse, repeat, and his brother was in a carrier too! The traps that were left overnight yielded one more female that is always very reclusive and another female tabby that was never seen around here before. I'm thinking it was 12 cats total that were taken at my residence. This includes a few that neighborhood kids caught and brought over for transport. So far, I know of around 28 or so rounded up in just a few hours last night. The trapping effort continues today. Animals will be neutered today, released tonight or tomorrow. Any testing positive for feline leukemia will be put down. Those with medical needs will be treated before they are returned. This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress the county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future efforts. >The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday. >The Cat haven worker who originally gave me the dates had incorrect [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress the >county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future efforts. Very good. Too bad you could not find homes for some of the younger kittens / cats. > The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday. > The Cat haven worker who originally gave me the dates had incorrect [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > the county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future > efforts. Go You! Must be a good weekend for trapping. We got 4 males that have been eluding us all summer. We had to trap overnight to get two of them and then the other two wandered into the traps during the day. We've been after some kittens but have found that our kitten traps aren't working properly. The little guys ate well this weekend but are unfortunately still out there. I'm hoping the possum we caught took notes and will avoid the trap in the future. I've got two out back in traps now to take over to the vet this afternoon for surgery tomorrow. Glad we got these guys now. It's supposed to rain all week here. I think the other volunteer is going to try trapping the kittens again today when she goes back to release the ones who were neutered over the weekend. W >> This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will >> impress the county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > W I am VERY impressed with this work! (This morning especially, since I couldn't get my 3 year old into his carrier for the first time ever, and I had the wonderful adventure of driving him to the vet while he was loose in the car.)  Signature"Lynne" lover of mutts and feral kitties > I'm hoping the possum we caught took notes and will avoid the trap in the > future. Oooohh. Don't count on it. Possum be dumb like an old red brick. I was trying to trap a sick cat a few years back and the same darned possum got in the trap 3 days in a row. > I think the other volunteer is going to try trapping the kittens again > today when she goes back to release the ones who were neutered over the > weekend. There is a bit of a dilemma here with the sheer number of cats involved and so many of them looking alike. I'm told that the ones being returned will have a small dot of orange paint placed between their ears so they can be easily distinguished from ones that may be missed in this initial trapping session. >> I think the other volunteer is going to try trapping the kittens again >> today when she goes back to release the ones who were neutered over the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > can be easily distinguished from ones that may be missed in this initial > trapping session. A local TNR group (the source of my newest two babies!) puts a notch in a cat's ear (either right or left, I can't recall which side, but a specific side) which tells them the cat has been tested, vaccinated, neutered/spayed. That's something that won't wear off. BTW if they consider a cat or kitten adoptable, they don't do the notching. The two I just adopted (Jasper & Jasmine) have both ears intact. :) Gail F. Owned by Lao Ma, Ephiny, Minya, Melosa and the rescue babies: Jasper & Jasmine (names might change) >> I think the other volunteer is going to try trapping the kittens >> again today when she goes back to release the ones who were neutered [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > their ears so they can be easily distinguished from ones that may be > missed in this initial trapping session. Even better than orange paint (which wears off as fur falls out & new grows in) is ear-tipping. A 1/2 to 1 inch portion of the tip of one ear (the standard seems to be the left) is snipped off while the feral cat is still under anesthesia, so that one can tell sterilized ferals from those that are still breeders. this helps avoid the re-trapping of sterilized ferals, and performing an unnecessary op (referring to females here). >> I think the other volunteer is going to try trapping the kittens again >> today when she goes back to release the ones who were neutered over the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > can be easily distinguished from ones that may be missed in this initial > trapping session. The ones done at the spay day over the weekend have their ears tipped. The ones our vet does get notched but the notch is so small as to be almost useless. Fortunately some are unique colors or color patterns so we recognize them when we see them. We had a calico in the trap Sunday morning that we had spayed back in the spring. She was as calm as could be and almost looked like she knew she'd get released so it was worth a while in the trap for the good, smelly food. We finally trapped out 'tattle tale' cat. The one night it looked like he was sitting out by the trap warning off all the others. We didn't get anyone that night thanks to him. Ditz walked right into the trap himself yesterday afternoon. W That's awesome. I was just recently reading about the local TNR program in the vet's office the other day. I think my family used to BE the TNR program in this community before TNR had a name, when the community was smaller. We grew up on a farm (which is now divided up amongst us kids), we love cats, and ferals tend to accumulate (and reproduce, if we don't get to them first) around the farm. During some seasons, my brother brings grunches of them to the local humane society for a voucher and then on to the vet. Then we have the joy of watching them playing in the gardens and barns, like exceptionally beautiful wildlife, especially in the evenings. (Our domesticated indoor cats sit on the windowsills and get excited -- it's like prime time TV for the indoor kitties.) We name some of them, and refer to them collectively as "the runtbrains." (Not very nice, I guess, but an apt description of their goofy antics.) If a newcomer has a litter, we try to get homes for the babies at the right time, but it's kind of like there's a window of opportunity, where you want the mama cat taking care of them for the appropriate length of time, and you don't want to bother the mama too much during that process, then once they're weaned you have to get them used to people before they go irretrievably feral. My brother (next door) is really good at it, but it takes a lot of attention and understanding that I can't muster the time for. We joke that my brother and sister-in-law run a "cat farm." People who want a cat know to come to him and ask, "You got any spare cats at the moment?" I got two of my three that way -- and they are beauties. (My third cat was a dumping victim that somebody rescued from the middle of the street in town and took to my vet's office on a day when I happened to come in. She didn't spend enough time with her mother before she was dumped, so she's got some behavioral and health problems, but I'd swear that as a result of her rescue she is the personification (felinification?) of gratitude for simple pleasures. It's great that TNR is so organized now in so many communities. ep > The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday. > The Cat haven worker who originally gave me the dates had incorrect [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > the county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future > efforts. > The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday. > The Cat haven worker who originally gave me the dates had incorrect [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress the > county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future efforts. Well done Rob! When you're done, there, come over and give us a hand! Phil Hi Phil happy feral cat day I hope the colonies are doing well :-) >> The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway >> yesterday. [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > > Phil > Hi Phil happy feral cat day > > I hope the colonies are doing well :-) They are. Thanks for asking. I'm dreading this winter. P >> This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress > the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Phil I can't take any credit for this. I'm a resident in the community that was targeted for this first TNR. My home also happened to be first priority on the list as a source of stray/abandoned/feral cats. Bet ya couldn't see that coming, eh? I just jumped in and helped guide the workers based on what I know of the various personalities of the animals. Even though familiar with how most of them act, there were still some surprises. I'll be right over when I stop bleeding. :) >>> This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress >> the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > familiar with how most of them act, there were still some surprises. I'll > be right over when I stop bleeding. :) I remember those days. I invested into Kevlar gloves > I remember those days. I invested into Kevlar gloves Don't lend them out! I lost two pair that way. P > >> This is the first TNR in this area. I'm hoping the success will impress > > the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > how most of them act, there were still some surprises. I'll be right over > when I stop bleeding. :) The trapping was so successful because of your intel. If HS went in cold, they wouldn't have done so well. Here's a picture of 3 wild ones that I'm fostering until they're socialized-- They're actually mushes. http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CharlieChelseyCricket.jpg http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC_Turbo.jpg > The trapping was so successful because of your intel. If HS went in cold, > they wouldn't have done so well. This TNR was a joint project between the local non profit humane society, a local rescue group, and a cat shelter called Cat Haven. There was a man from Cat Haven here around the first of the month doing a survey of the area and taking a sort of census. He drove and walked the area for the better part of an afternoon. Last week, two people from the humane society came through distributing flyers outlining the TNR operation and what would occur, instructions for removing food prior to trapping, etc. They also walked the area and took detailed notes on the cat population and talked to as many residents as they could. Everybody did their advance work and had a real solid idea what they were dealing with before the first trap ever hit the ground. For a first time attempt it seems like they did quite a bit of research to know how to approach it so well. Pretty impressive. I was able to point out trails, hangouts, and give info on population for just 2 of the 10 streets here. It helped some because about 1/3 of the cats were taken from the property at my residence. The strays that hang out here are better socialized than most. Still wild as hell, but they tolerate me enough to be around at close range. My son can sit outside with me and gets about the same level of tolerance. Probably 80% of mine will sit on the steps, peek in the door, and run around my feet at close range when I'm putting food out, even though they don't tolerate being directly approached. This is a contrast to others in the area that won't even approach food until several minutes after the last human leaves the area. > Here's a picture of 3 wild ones that I'm fostering until they're > socialized-- They're actually mushes. > > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CharlieChelseyCricket.jpg > > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC_Turbo.jpg Those are some gorgeous kitties. Looks a lot like my clan here. BTW - the head count on the TNR so far is around 40 cats of all ages. > > Here's a picture of 3 wild ones that I'm fostering until they're > > socialized-- They're actually mushes. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Those are some gorgeous kitties. Looks a lot like my clan here. > BTW - the head count on the TNR so far is around 40 cats of all ages. 40 cats trapped in 2 days is pretty damn good! How many trappers and how many traps? Are all the cats concentrated in one or two colonies or are they all spread out? You must have a huge holding area and a couple of great vets. This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a drop-trap to get her. I think she's gorgeous- but she definitely has the Calico demon gene! lol! http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/Delilah.jpg Ain't she beautiful? > 40 cats trapped in 2 days is pretty damn good! How many trappers and how > many traps? Are all the cats concentrated in one or two colonies or are > they > all spread out? You must have a huge holding area and a couple of great > vets. The largest concentration was at my home. I've had a pretty stable number at around 10 or 11 regulars plus a few recluses that only come in when its very quiet around here. There was one other small colony that I know of - maybe 5 or so. The rest were spread out remnants of litters here and there, and several solo adults. There were probably 3 people total working the traps, one from Cat Haven, two from the Humane Society. I would guesstimate from what I saw, about 25 traps in use or available. Most of the cats trapped here were transported in the traps to the locations where the neutering will be done. After a few escapes early on it was deemed too risky to try transferring them to carriers. The Humane Society has a few surgery rooms available and a pretty fair amount of holding space. Angels For Animals likewise has a surgical suite. I was told the cats would be spread amongst those two places and some of the local veterinary offices that are helping out. The one vet I know of that works with HS is my old vet from years back when he first started his practice - very good doctor and real nice guy. I don't know how many local vets are involved but it must be at least 3 or 4 of them. This is being written at around 7:30am Tuesday. The cats were to have their surgery yesterday and today, then be returned. Current weather is 49 degrees with rain forcast until mid afternoon, so it may be well into tomorrow before my crew comes back. That's what amazes me - the degree of cooperation between these groups. There was almost a civil war of sorts within the Humane Society a few years back that lead to the director being fired. She in turn started Angels For Animals and continued to be very publicly vocal on her opposition to Humane Society open shelter policies. She had replaced a director who was in office during the building of their new facility. That woman was a pure nut case who elected to go with $20,000 worth of solid oak doors in areas facing public parts of the facility rather than concentrate the money where it needed to be spent. The new building went many 10's of thousands of dollars over budget and caused a serious financial crisis for quite a long time. A new director came on board at the Humane Society about 2 years ago and they became a no-kill shelter. Some time after that, a new era of cooperation between the groups started. In addition to projects like this TNR, they now alternate being on call for injured animal referral calls from local law enforcement. It's sad that it took so long to get everybody pulling in the same direction 'cause the animals suffered for it. Considering the state of affairs around here over the past several years, I was quite surprised when all of these groups stepped up in unison to help deal with this situation. I am not affiliated with any of these organizations. When they came to my area and announced their plan, I was wholeheartedly in favor of it. All I had to offer was some information and an extra pair of hands when it was time to trap. If future TNR projects depend on the success of this one for funding, it should be a no-brainer to open up the wallets. > This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a drop-trap > to get her. I think she's gorgeous- but she definitely has the Calico > demon > gene! lol! http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/Delilah.jpg Ain't she > beautiful? Sweet looking little girl. Looks a lot like one I had 20 years ago. >> 40 cats trapped in 2 days is pretty damn good! How many trappers and how >> many traps? Are all the cats concentrated in one or two colonies or are [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > projects depend on the success of this one for funding, it should be a > no-brainer to open up the wallets. Easier said than done for some reason getting the public to help animals can be very difficult. We did fund raisers all the time even when I was backing the shelters I used to be involved with till the political bullshit happened here in Florida. If you ever need any ideas or places where to get things to sell ask. I have a lot Rob from animals lovers We salute you sending you a pat on the back and a handshake >> This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a >> drop-trap [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sweet looking little girl. Looks a lot like one I had 20 years ago. >> If future TNR projects depend on the success of this one for funding, it >> should be a no-brainer to open up the wallets. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > backing the shelters I used to be involved with till the political > bullshit happened here in Florida. It seems they have some source of funding in the works. Since it is most likely a private source, they obviously aren't going to disclose any info regarding who or how much. Fine by me. I lived in Jacksonville for 9 years and another 2 years in the Tampa area. Florida and political BS are almost synonymous aren't they? Tell me about It I live near Orlando, Florida :-( >>> If future TNR projects depend on the success of this one for funding, it >>> should be a no-brainer to open up the wallets. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I lived in Jacksonville for 9 years and another 2 years in the Tampa area. > Florida and political BS are almost synonymous aren't they? > > 40 cats trapped in 2 days is pretty damn good! How many trappers and how > > many traps? Are all the cats concentrated in one or two colonies or are [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > depend on the success of this one for funding, it should be a no-brainer to > open up the wallets. Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever the County gets involved there's trouble. I'm really happy that your groups got the job done. One of the counties in California- I think it was Santa Clara or Santa Ana- did a cost comparison, awhile back- about 10 years ago, between TNR and trap, hold and kill. The cost of TNR per cat was about $50 whereas THK then was about $75- times a few thousand offspring. The numbers made sense and raised a few eyebrows. I'll dig out the report and send to you if you like- you might be able to use it as a guideline or pass it on to someone. Usually the only language bureaucrats understand is money. My County's shelter is heading for some changes, too- for the better- come election day. Keep me posted on the progress of the project- I love to hear success stories. Phil > Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever the > County gets involved there's trouble. I'm really happy that your groups > got > the job done. I guess I should clarify that although known as Humane Society of Allen County, it does not get any public funding. It is run entirely off donations and various ongoing fundraisers. The county does not even fund the salary of the cruelty officer - the Humane Society does. > I'll dig out the report and send to you if you like- > you might be able to use it as a guideline or pass it on to someone. > Usually > the only language bureaucrats understand is money. Please do. > > Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever the > > County gets involved there's trouble. I'm really happy that your groups [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Please do. Its on the way. Btw, isn't this a very happy picture? http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg >> > Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever >> > the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Btw, isn't this a very happy picture? > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg Oh Phil I am so sorry > >> > Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever > >> > the [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Oh Phil I am so sorry Why are you sorry, Mat? All three kittens tested *negative* for FeLV and FIV. The single blue dot is only the positive control- it shows that the test was run properly. What I don't want to see are any blue dots just below and on either side of the positive control. Phil >> >> > Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever >> >> > the [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Phil Sorry Phil the color did not show up good on my end. For some reason must be my contrast it showed reddish Foot in mouth taking it out knocking monitor back into proper shape HAPPY DANCE >> > Its unusual to see different groups cooperate. Where I am, whenever >> > the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Btw, isn't this a very happy picture? > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg :o) I like those kind of pictures. W > > Btw, isn't this a very happy picture? > > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg > > :o) I like those kind of pictures. > > W I gotta admit I was sweating bullets while I was running the test because the kittens came from an area near a colony that had a few positives. I waited an extra two weeks to run the test to make sure they weren't incubating the virus. I should know better than to get attached to fosters- but these little guys really got to me. I'm not going to separate them- they're too tight. >> > Btw, isn't this a very happy picture? >> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > guys > really got to me. I'm not going to separate them- they're too tight. I know that feeling. I got my little one who had the terrible diarrhea tested last weekend. It would have killed me after getting him healthy to find he was positive. Happily he was negative and got adopted. What is the youngest age you test your kittens? I've gotten conflicting info from different vets and the one the rescue group uses doesn't like to test younger than 14 weeks. W > >> > Btw, isn't this a very happy picture? > >> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I know that feeling. I got my little one who had the terrible diarrhea > tested last weekend. This is a picture of what one of the kittens was carrying around -- Warning: its gross! http://maxshouse.com/Parasitology/Crickets_passengers.jpg It would have killed me after getting him healthy to > find he was positive. Happily he was negative and got adopted. I rescued a cat about 20 years ago- a few years after the IFA was developed- that I fell completely in love with. He was one big furball of mush. I took a special interest in him because he was so damn affectionate and had a very bad eye infection- that I immediately began treating aggressively. I kept him isolated because of his eye. By the time I got around to getting him tested a few weeks later- he had a firm grip on my heart. When he tested positive for FeLV, I was crushed-- but I just couldn't let him go. I had him retested by 3 different labs- all of which confirmed the first positive. To make a long story short- After 3 years and $8K (of 1989 dollars) for very controversial treatments, he finally tested negative on multiple ELISAs and IFAs. I never knew if the treatments actually cured him or if he was just one of the 3-5% of FeLV cats that clear the virus from their bone marrow and seroconvert to negative. Nine years later he died of cancer that we couldn't beat. After that, I swore I would never get attached to another rescue-- so much for that oath because I still get attached to all my rescues with special needs. He wasn't the best looking cat- but he sure was one in a million: http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Smokey.jpg > What is the youngest age you test your kittens? I've gotten conflicting info > from different vets and the one the rescue group uses doesn't like to test > younger than 14 weeks. The AAFP Advisory Panel on Feline Retrovirus Testing recommend that *all* cats should be tested before adoption *regardless* of age. I wholeheartedly agree- since most kittens are adopted when they're younger than 14 weeks. If you get the mother with the kittens, you can just test the mother and one or two kittens- some groups only test the mother. If I get the kittens without the mother, I test them all- usually at about 8 weeks and again before they're adopted. The SnapCombo kits only cost me about $9 and takes 10 minutes so its not a big deal to test or retest. If you go with the AAFP recommendations you can't go wrong. Phil >> >> > Btw, isn't this a very happy picture? >> >> > http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/CCC-Snap.jpg [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > Phil I had a horrible experience several years ago with a cat who had initially tested negative for FeLV as a young kitten and three years later developed leukemia related lymphoma and had to be euthanized. The vet tested him for FeLV and sure enough he was positive. One of my friends adopted two other kittens from the same litter and they also initially tested negative (at another vets office) and later were found to have FeLV and had to be euthanized. All three kittens were indoor cats with vaccinations from the time it was appropriate. The mother tested negative but it turns out there were a couple other queens that were mutually nursing a hoard of kittens so we don't know if another female was carrying the virus. I work in a lab so I know that with HIV testing (in humans) the recommendation is to test a second time several months later if the initial test is negative since it can take a little while for antibodies to show up. I've been assuming that's what happened with my cat but have you seen this before with FeLV? Also, he was quite young (about 6 weeks--too young but I know better now!)--are they producing their own antibodies by then or are you measuring maternal antibodies still? Bonnie > I had a horrible experience several years ago with a cat who had initially > tested negative for FeLV as a young kitten and three years later developed [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I've been assuming that's what happened with my cat but have you seen this > before with FeLV? Yes. If the mother had a latent infection- she would test negative and her kittens could test negative when they're very young and seroconvert as they got older. There's no way of knowing when the kittens serocoverted- could have been several weeks or several months after their first test. Most seroconverted cats don't become symptomatic for months to years after infection or reactivation of a latent infection. Cats with latent FeLV infections will test negative on both the ELISA Snap and the IFA. Both test for the FeLV antigen, P27 (not antibodies). During latency antigen isn't produced so both tests will come up negative. If a cat has a latent infection it can be reactivated at any time- especially by stress (stress-induced reactivation), unrelated illness, injury or after being treated with steroids especially DepoMedrol. About 8 years ago, a cat I was treating with Depo for EGC developed unexplained symptoms. Upon retesting we found he was positive. This cat was previously tested twice- once by AC and later by us- both tests were negative. Also, he was quite young (about 6 weeks--too young but I > know better now!)--are they producing their own antibodies by then or are > you measuring maternal antibodies still? No. The FeLV tests test for antigen not antibodies that's why kittens/cats can be tested at any age. Maternally-derived antibodies have no affect on the tests. Vaccinations- including the FeLV vaccine also doesn't affect the tests either. The FIV test, on tthe other hand, tests for antibodies- just like the human HIV test. One of the biggest problems with the FIV vaccine is FIV-vaccinated cats will test FIV positive on both the ELISA and the immunoblot (Western Blot). As of now, there's no way to tell the difference between an FIV-vaccinated cat and an FIV-infected cat. This can be a death sentence if the cat ever gets out and gets picked up AC and is tested. I'm sorry you lost your cat- especially one so young. Phil. > Yes. If the mother had a latent infection- she would test negative and her > kittens could test negative when they're very young and seroconvert as [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Phil. I didn't realize it was an antigen test--that makes a lot of sense. He was a beautiful mutt Siamese--very soft and smokey colored with a "got milk?" mustache and it was a tremendous shock to lose him. He was only three. He was so sweet--he loved to lick our hair, especially my dear hubby who was not amused for the most part! When we went to pick out our kittens, when I picked him up he immediately started head-butting my hand and purring--I was lost! Looking back on it, I should have been more suspicious that the kittens were not being kept in the best of circumstances. They were outdoors most of the time and the people I got him from had lost the father to illness just before they were born. This was one time (probably not the only time!) I let the cuteness factor choose a kitten for me. I still miss him. Thanks for the information! Bonnie > This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a drop-trap > to get her. I think she's gorgeous- but she definitely has the Calico > demon > gene! lol! http://www.maxshouse.com/Feral/Delilah.jpg Ain't she > beautiful? She looks like she's full of it!! Incredible eyes. Phil, you've got some beautiful cats there--enjoyed the pictures of the three orange cats as well. > > This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a drop-trap > > to get her. I think she's gorgeous- but she definitely has the Calico [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > She looks like she's full of it!! Incredible eyes. Phil, you've got some > beautiful cats there--enjoyed the pictures of the three orange cats as well. The three kittens' mother was hit by car right in front of them. Now they're inseparable. If I take one out of the room the others cry until he's back. Its going to rough finding someone who will adopt 3 kittens. I have two other permanant fosters, brother and sister http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Franky+Fanny_cage2.jpg They were kept in a basement by themselves for their first year of life and in a cage for the next 6 months. http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie+Fanny_scratch_814.jpg http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/F+F+plat-post.jpg What can I say? I'm a mush for the hard luck cases. Phil >> > This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a > drop-trap [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Phil Those cats are lucky you're taking care of them! > >> > This a shrewd little girl that was very trapwise- I had to use a > > drop-trap [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > > Those cats are lucky you're taking care of them! The way I see it- I'm the lucky one because they've enriched my life so much! > I have two other permanant fosters, brother and sister > http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Franky+Fanny_cage2.jpg They were kept in a > basement by themselves for their first year of life and in a cage for the > next 6 months. The one on the right is the exact double of the most recent arrival here, Jaws! Jaws is being very persistent about adopting us. I figure that over time my wife will simply run out of air on the subject and accept him being here. I put him outside in the early morning hours just so she can share the joy when he squeezes past her feet to get back inside as she leaves for work. > > I have two other permanant fosters, brother and sister > > http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Franky+Fanny_cage2.jpg They were kept in a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The one on the right is the exact double of the most recent arrival here, > Jaws! That's Frankie- Solid muscle-Classic Tabby. http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie0025.jpg http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie_tree.jpg http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie_0086.jpg He has the almost the same "bullseye" markings on his sides as one of my other cats, Jade-0-mine http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Jade-o-mine-climb.jpg Jaws is being very persistent about adopting us. I figure that over > time my wife will simply run out of air on the subject and accept him being > here. I put him outside in the early morning hours just so she can share the > joy when he squeezes past her feet to get back inside as she leaves for > work. My wife never stopped whining about cat hair on her clothes- I finally got fed up with her complaining and told her if she doesn't want cat hair on her clothes stay the hell off their furniture-- Its their furniture- they were here first. lol Phil Signature"Cats are a great warm-up to a successful marriage; they teach you your place in the household". --Paul Gallico Feline Healthcare: http://maxshouse.com > > The one on the right is the exact double of the most recent arrival here, > > Jaws! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Frankie_0086.jpg Oops- I forgot a real good view of his markings: http://maxshouse.com/Ours/frankie-floor.jpg > He has the almost the same "bullseye" markings on his sides as one of my > other cats, Jade-0-mine > > http://maxshouse.com/Ours/Jade-o-mine-climb.jpg > "Cats are a great warm-up to a successful marriage; > they teach you your place in the household". > --Paul Gallico > Feline Healthcare: http://maxshouse.com I got a divorce, I told my wife, you can go, just leave the pussy! and lemme get 5 dollars I'm impressed, Rob. That's a lot of cats! You and the gang are great cat wranglers. I hope all did well through the surgeries. Rhonda > The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday. > The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday. <snip> Awesome! -L. > The TNR that was to take place 2 weeks ago finally got underway yesterday. > The Cat haven worker who originally gave me the dates had incorrect [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > the county commissioners enough to pry some money loose for future > efforts. That's fabulous! Are any of them adoptable? We've done a little TNR here--we live a rural area and have had several cats dumped off here over the years but nothing on that scale. > That's fabulous! Are any of them adoptable? We've done a little TNR > here--we live a rural area and have had several cats dumped off here over > the years but nothing on that scale. There are about 5 right now that are adoptable as is. Bubbles was born under my home as was his brother Spook. Bubbles runs inside at every opportunity. Spook is a bit aloof but would calm down quickly if kept inside. Both know the food bowl and litterbox well. Mr. Jingles is a huge orange tom that used to be an owned cat. When he first showed up here, he was wearing a blue collar with vet and ID tags on it. A few weeks later he no longer had the collar. Kids in the area tell me his owner moved away and left him behind. After he got repeated calls about his cat being found, he returned and took the collar off. Jingles bluffs a lot with his growling, but is a big sap for attention and food. Another little orange cat has about 4 names depending on who you talk to. We call him BoBo. He showed up in the spring at around 12 - 14 weeks old, fully socialized. He was obviously a pet that was dumped. He's too smart for his own good and fears nothing. At around 9 months old now, he's roughly the size of a 5 month old kitten. He will sit on my top step raised up on haunches, prairie dog style, and survey the area. We have a recent arrival I call Jaws - he talks constantly. He's another abandoned pet, a dark tabby male approximately 1 yr. old, already neutered. He is very eager to demonstrate his household skills. My wife is trying very hard to dislike him so she won't get too attached. She has a weakness for lap kitties and this guy knows the human lap as a great tool of influence. He has the peculiar habit of chasing my fingers around the keyboard as I type. He's also followed me out to my van 3 times now and climbed in for a ride. He curls up on the passenger seat and seems to enjoy it. Some of the younger kittens could probably be tamed really well if somebody works at it. When the litter of 4 showed up, they would scatter if the door opened. Now they will come up on the steps and play with a cat tease whip with any of us. Two of them have actually walked inside for a quick look around, then scampered back out. The same two will play with my fingers under the bottom of the storm door when it is held open a few inches. They constantly peek inside. Two males, one female - not sure on the 4th one. Just about everything around here is potentially adoptable except the oldest, wildest, and most wary of them. >> That's fabulous! Are any of them adoptable? We've done a little TNR >> here--we live a rural area and have had several cats dumped off here over [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Just about everything around here is potentially adoptable except the > oldest, wildest, and most wary of them. That's wonderful! You've done a great thing. We have a feral now who we neutered a year or two ago that has started following me around outside, talking the entire time. He's wary of me and won't let me touch him but seems to like my dog just fine, actually coming up to her and sniffing her nose. I'm pretty sure he was "pre-owned" but he's just not quite ready to trust humans yet. Like your wife I don't want to get too involved, already having 7 indoors but he's growing on me all the time! > That's wonderful! You've done a great thing. Once again, I haven't done anything - just a little hands on help when the project got underway. >We have a feral now who we neutered a year or two ago that has started >following me around outside, talking the entire time. He's wary of me and >won't let me touch him but seems to like my dog just fine, actually coming >up to her and sniffing her nose. I'm pretty sure he was "pre-owned" but >he's just not quite ready to trust humans yet. I wonder how many actually will recover trust once something like abandonment happens? Ol' Jaws is proof that they do - but then again, he was fairly recently abandoned too. 'Hasn't had enough hardships behind him to make him to make him tough yet. >> That's wonderful! You've done a great thing. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > was fairly recently abandoned too. 'Hasn't had enough hardships behind him > to make him to make him tough yet. Our feral (Zorro for the scars on his face) has actually started acting friendlier over the last 3 or 4 months. I think it took him awhile to forgive me for trapping him! I've seen some cats that seem almost pitifully grateful that someone has taken them in so some do learn to trust again. Most of my cats are rescues and I just get so angry when people treat them like disposables. > Our feral (Zorro for the scars on his face) has actually started acting > friendlier over the last 3 or 4 months. I think it took him awhile to > forgive me for trapping him! I've seen some cats that seem almost pitifully > grateful that someone has taken them in so some do learn to trust again. I think you're right. I trapped one of my ferals on a cold and rainy November night. After I got her inside I put her near a heating register and bent a piece a cardboard around the cage to make a cove to hold the heat in so she'd warm up quickly. It didn't take very long for her to trust me. It really seemed like she realized I was helping her. It took a few months before she would venture out into the outdoor pen- it seemed like she was afraid she wouldn't be able to get back in. A few years later, she was a complete mush. > Most of my cats are rescues and I just get so angry when people treat them > like disposables. Tell me about it. You wouldn't believe some of the utterly stupid reasons people have given me for surrending their pets. A lot of people in my position try to talk the people into keeping their cat or dog. Not me! I want to get the animal away from them as soon as possible because they'll only end up disposing of the animal- possibly cruelly- later. Phil >> That's fabulous! Are any of them adoptable? We've done a little TNR >> here--we live a rural area and have had several cats dumped off here [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Just about everything around here is potentially adoptable except the > oldest, wildest, and most wary of them. You are a lovely person. Truly. How anyone can abandon a pet cat is beyond my comprehension... Signature"Lynne" lover of mutts and feral kitties > You are a lovely person. Truly. Thanks... 'Guess it depends on who you ask around here though. > How anyone can abandon a pet cat is beyond my comprehension... I've got one here that I know was abandoned and two more that I strongly suspect were. I |
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