Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / October 2006
To or Not to
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see me - 05 Oct 2006 03:15 GMT The family Cat loves her claws. The question is ; Is it better to de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays? Your friend from......Shop till you drop honey.com
Ryan Robbins - 05 Oct 2006 04:04 GMT > The family Cat loves her claws. The question is ; Is it better to > de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays? > Your friend from......Shop till you drop honey.com DO NOT DE-CLAW. The procedure is actually amputating part of a cat's foot and leaves the cat defenseless and unable to grip anything in an emergency. You need to work with your cat to prevent inappropriate clawing. It's going to take time and patience.
Judy - 05 Oct 2006 05:05 GMT > The family Cat loves her claws. The question is ; Is it better to > de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays? You can do this to your cat: http://community-2.webtv.net/stopdeclaw/declawpics/
Or use your brain.
When it comes to cats, it's not rocket science when it comes to training them to scratch in appropriate places.
dgk - 05 Oct 2006 13:06 GMT >The family Cat loves her claws. The question is ; Is it better to >de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays? >Your friend from......Shop till you drop honey.com Declawing is cruel. None of my cats has caused any damage to furniture, including leather. They do occasionally cause damage to people but it's inadvertent during play.
There are many ways to train cats to scratch in appropriate places, the first of which is to get them scratching posts and put catnip on them.
Catjoy - 05 Oct 2006 18:06 GMT Declawing is extremely painful for the cat, and it is inhumane.
www.stopdeclaw.com
I have lived with cats for most of my life, had none of them declawed, and had/have no problems with any of them. Provide them with a sturdy scratching post, one long enough for them to stretch up on and scratch. There are kinder, humane ways to keep kitty from scratching unwanted areas. You can find a lot of information on such methods by doing a search on the internet.
>The family Cat loves her claws. The question is ; Is it better to >de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays? >Your friend from......Shop till you drop honey.com Edna Pearl - 06 Oct 2006 18:50 GMT Do not "declaw." It is inhumane and unnecessary.
ep
> The family Cat loves her claws. The question is ; Is it better to > de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays? > Your friend from......Shop till you drop honey.com Lina - 19 Oct 2006 17:03 GMT Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel action. Lina
On Oct 6, 1:50 pm, "Edna Pearl" <edna_pe...@BiteMeSpammeryahoo.com> wrote:
> Do not "declaw." It is inhumane and unnecessary. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > de-claw or just use scratch prevention sprays? > > Your friend from......Shop till you drop honey.com- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Lynne - 19 Oct 2006 18:43 GMT > Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel > action. > Lina says the person who has no doubt had her cat's joints removed.
Declawing is definitely a surgical procedure. An ELECTIVE surgical procedure for the convenience of the cat owner. Declawing can and frequently does result in cats with behavioral (emotional) problems. And is that any surprise?? It is *definitely* cruel. It's even illegal in many countries.
- Lynne
Edna Pearl - 19 Oct 2006 21:20 GMT > Declawing is definitely a surgical procedure. An ELECTIVE surgical > procedure for the convenience of the cat owner. Declawing can and > frequently does result in cats with behavioral (emotional) problems. And > is that any surprise?? It is *definitely* cruel. It's even illegal in > many countries. Exactimundo.
I don't see how anybody who has ever SEEN a cat after a claw amputation can do that to an animal.
But heck, some people routinely cut the ears of puppies of various breeds into groovy shapes (have you ever SEEN the pathetic little things with the sticks and stitches in their ears and the yellow goo and the bandages?), so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by animal cruelty in the guise of human vanity.
ep
tension_on_the_wire - 20 Oct 2006 05:36 GMT > Exactimundo. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I guess I shouldn't be surprised by animal cruelty in the guise of human > vanity. Do you remember (rhetorically speaking) the days when they used to crop the tails off of carriage horses? For fashion?!
--tension
tension_on_the_wire - 19 Oct 2006 18:57 GMT > Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel > action. > Lina Dr. Josef Mengele did many "surgical procedures" in the concentrations camps, too.
--tension
-L. - 20 Oct 2006 09:09 GMT > Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel > action. I used to think declawing was ok too. Then I became a vet tech and saw first-hand how cats suffer from the procedure, and how horrible the long-term affects can be.
It's extremely cruel. Cats are digitrade - they walk on the tips of their toes. When the cat is declawed the entire last bone of the paw is amputated - not just the claw. This causes the cat's weight to be shifted to the pad of the foot which is complete unnatural for the cat. It puts stress on the forelegs, shoulders and spine, which usually causes arthritis in old age. Plus as many as 50% of cats declawed have complications after the procedure, and almost 20% have long-term complications.
Never, ever declaw a cat unless the claw is injured and won't heal properly or is diseased.
http://www.stopdeclaw.com
-L.
-L. - 20 Oct 2006 09:19 GMT > Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel > action. > Lina This is from Megan's website http://www.stopdeclaw.com. It's a description of the procedure and the aftermath the next day. I could have written this, as I witnessed it over 100 times. While we didn't use surgical glue (we sutured the toes) nothing is more gruesome than a cat that has degloved its bandages after a declaw surgery. There is blood *everywhere*, and you can smell it when you walk in the door. The cat writhes in pain. It's horrible.
**paste** "It's show time. I hold up one of Fluffy's feet and the doc begins: The procedure is sort of a half pull, half cut kinda thing. The nail clippers are doing their best to saw through the joint while the hemostats are ripping it away. And please make no mistake here, this isn't a nail trim. A cat's first joint, just like on your finger, is being ripped out. Fluffy utters a half growl/meow of pain as the joint tears away, even after all this medicine. The pain must be excruciating; it is certainly a gruesome spectacle to watch. Doc fills the gaping socket where Fluffy's toe used to be with some special glue and squeezes it together for a few seconds. We move on to the next toe until we're done. Now we bandage and when we're done Fluffy looks as though he's wearing little mittens...aww.
I come in the next morning and reach for the doorknob to the recovery room. "Crap!" I think, because the smell hits my brain before I even open the door to see. Blood has a very specific odor, you see, and after a while you have the ability to recognize many things: parvo, cancer, bloody declaw cats that don't seem to like their mittens- all by their respective smells.
Sure enough, Fluffy got a head start on removing his bandages so I begin my day scrubbing his blood off the walls, the door, the floor, and his cage. I clean the blood off Fluffy's fur the best I can and begin to take off his bandages. I try so hard to be gentle but I know I still hurt. I have to cut down the bandage until I'm right beside Fluffy's purple swollen toes and he cries. I examine each hole where Fluffy used to have claws and make sure they are all still sealed. They never are, of course. There is invariably at least one or two that must be reglued, so I sigh and get my glue. Then I drop some goo into Fluffy's socket and squeeze his tender and bruised deformed little toes together for several seconds. This hurts. A lot. And I feel like the scum of the earth. I clean the last bit of blood from Fluffy's feet as best I can without hurting too bad and hope that Fluffy will finish the job himself before you come.
You rush in on your lunch hour and I bring out Fluffy and remind you that Fluffy's feet are going to be very sore for a while. You already knew that.....bye Fluffy.
Three months later you bring Fluffy in to update his shots. You ask me why Fluffy doesn't seem like the cat he used to be anymore. He never wants to play or do much of anything. And he has turned into a biter! You don't understand, you tell me. Why isn't Fluffy the same? I don't know why. "
I know why - because Fluffy's life has been changed forever. He used to be happy, trusting and whole. He is now a ghost of the cat he once was.
-L.
Matthew - 20 Oct 2006 18:03 GMT > Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel > action. > Lina You all can deal with this one I am tired of the ignorance about declawing and the ignorance of the people that support it Specially with someone who has never posted here before
cybercat - 20 Oct 2006 18:45 GMT >> Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel >> action. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > declawing and the ignorance of the people that support it > Specially with someone who has never posted here before I feel the same way about the indoor/outdoor issue.
It amazes me that Barry actually thinks it is okay to let his UNSPAYED BLACK cat get outside right before Halloween. It's beyond negligence. He has had one cat ripped apart by dogs in that very yard.
But I am just a judgmental tightass who must have my PERIOD or something.
And if Jupiter, spoiled rotten and raised inside to trust humans, gets ripped apart by dogs, tortured by a sicko, or hit by a car, Barry would expect SYMPATHY.
Ugh, ugh, ugh.
I am beyond disgust. He and the pro-declaw bitch ought to get together and mate.
Matthew - 20 Oct 2006 18:53 GMT >>> Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel >>> action. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I am beyond disgust. He and the pro-declaw bitch ought to get together and > mate. Barry does every thing for a reason there is a method to his madness. I to also agree always keep cats indoors specially a black cat. But there is a reason he is doing what he does I won't jump the gun or draw conclusions till I know both sides. I guess it comes with age Plus I am tired of all the BS. The trolls I mess with are fun for a while but they get so predictable that they do get boring
The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to remove your nails it is a surgical procedure and see how you feel for the rest of your life.
cybercat - 20 Oct 2006 18:58 GMT > Barry does every thing for a reason there is a method to his madness. I > to also agree always keep cats indoors specially a black cat. But there > is a reason he is doing what he does I won't jump the gun or draw > conclusions till I know both sides. Matthew, right now, I don't give a f.ck about Barry and his cute little quirky personality. I am worried about Jupiter. The kitten he took and raised to trust people in his drugged-out inner city neighborhood. I am tired of all the bullshit too, but particularly of Barry's brand, which is all aimed at excusing his irresponsibility or incompetence. The only conclusion to draw is that he is endangering this kitten. The oddball "be free wild thing" philosophy may be cute as a button to some of you freaks, but it will lose its appeal in the presence of a broken and bloody kitten.
dgk - 20 Oct 2006 19:11 GMT >The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to remove >your nails it is a surgical procedure and see how you feel for the rest of >your life. Except, as we all know, it isn't just the nails. It is the amputation of the last joint.
Matthew - 20 Oct 2006 19:14 GMT >>The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to >>remove [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Except, as we all know, it isn't just the nails. It is the amputation > of the last joint. I was trying to be a little kind
cybercat - 20 Oct 2006 19:50 GMT >>>The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to >>>remove [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I was trying to be a little kind Why not save it for those who deserve it?
Matthew - 20 Oct 2006 19:52 GMT >>>>The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to >>>>remove [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> > Why not save it for those who deserve it? I was it was for us not the ignorant poster
tension_on_the_wire - 20 Oct 2006 22:35 GMT > The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to remove > your nails it is a surgical procedure and see how you feel for the rest of > your life. You know, Matthew, it isn't even close. I've removed human toenails for many years, heh, sorry I know that sounds gross, but the only tissue disrupted is the nail bed which soon heals and carries on.
We do not, however, when we do it, pull out the first bone right up to the first knuckle.
--tension
Zippy - 21 Oct 2006 14:07 GMT > > The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to remove > > your nails it is a surgical procedure and see how you feel for the rest of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > --tension 1. We had our lovely female cat de-clawed & I said "never again." 2. Then we adopted another lady cat who was also de-clawed. 3. Now we have adopted a precocious male kitten who at 8 months, rules the roost & terrorizes the "girls." I trim his claws but cannot bring myself to have them removed. I hope that after his neutering that he will calm down & stop annoying the ladies. The growls & fights are awful! What say you?
cybercat - 21 Oct 2006 17:32 GMT > 1. We had our lovely female cat de-clawed & I said "never again." > 2. Then we adopted another lady cat who was also de-clawed. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ladies. The growls & fights are awful! > What say you? Thank you for not declawing him. Like you, I did this to my first cat and said, "Never again." I was really young and did no know what it entailed, and when I took her in to get spayed, the vet offered it like it was nothing. I actually thought just her CLAWS were removed, meaning the nails only. When I got her back and saw the mutilation I had allowed I felt sicker than I ever have since.
If you trim your baby boy's claws every month, he should be fine. Your girls can take care of themselves--they have back claws and teeth. (In fact, declawed cats tend to become biters--mine did.) Cats have to work out dominance issues on their own.
If you really think someone might get hurt, you should separate them, but I don't think there is anything else you can really do.
tension_on_the_wire - 21 Oct 2006 17:40 GMT > 1. We had our lovely female cat de-clawed & I said "never again." > 2. Then we adopted another lady cat who was also de-clawed. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ladies. The growls & fights are awful! > What say you? No need to do it again, just because of the first two. The odds are still even, since they are older and experienced and can look after themselves just fine with him.
Just remember any circumstances with a bratty little brother and big, sensible older sisters and how *annoyed* they can be when he torments them as little brothers are wont to do!! They'll give him whatfor sooner or later and it will all sort itself out. We are going through that here too...and they always each find their spot in the pecking order.
Make sure to get him neutered early, that too will hopefully curb some aggressive tendencies in his behaviour, and it should be fine at that point.
--tension
22brix - 21 Oct 2006 17:45 GMT >> > The pro declaw person no comment except let me go get a surgeon to >> > remove [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > ladies. The growls & fights are awful! > What say you? Neutering should help although he probably should have neutered younger. He might settle down as he gets older, too. They're pretty wild at that age. Do you have areas where your other cats can get away from him, at least for part of the time? I would NOT declaw him--that would be cruel and I don't think it would help his aggression either.
-L. - 22 Oct 2006 09:25 GMT > 1. We had our lovely female cat de-clawed & I said "never again." > 2. Then we adopted another lady cat who was also de-clawed. > 3. Now we have adopted a precocious male kitten who at 8 months, rules > the roost & terrorizes the "girls." > I trim his claws but cannot bring myself to have them removed. Good for you! There is no reason to. Clawed and declawed cats can and do live together well.
-L.
-L. - 20 Oct 2006 23:41 GMT > Barry does every thing for a reason So do serial murderers.
> there is a method to his madness. I to > also agree always keep cats indoors specially a black cat. But there is a > reason he is doing what he does I won't jump the gun or draw conclusions > till I know both sides. There's absolutely no justification for allowing an intact female to roam - none.
-L.
-L. - 20 Oct 2006 18:57 GMT > I feel the same way about the indoor/outdoor issue. I feel the same way about most of the common issues addressed here. "My cat's eye ball..."
> It amazes me that Barry actually thinks it is okay to let his UNSPAYED > BLACK cat get outside right before Halloween. It's beyond negligence. > He has had one cat ripped apart by dogs in that very yard. She's probably at greater risk of getting knocked up than killed, but I totally agree.
> But I am just a judgmental tightass who must have my PERIOD or > something. Ahhh yet. I wish men had to tote around a uterus for a month. It would shut them up for life.
> And if Jupiter, spoiled rotten and raised inside to trust humans, gets > ripped apart by dogs, tortured by a sicko, or hit by a car, Barry would > expect SYMPATHY. He better damn well not. I will excuse Ruprect's death, but not another.
> Ugh, ugh, ugh. > > I am beyond disgust. He and the pro-declaw bitch ought to get together and > mate. Um, no they shouldn't. Dumb shouldn't breed.
-L.
cybercat - 20 Oct 2006 19:54 GMT >> It amazes me that Barry actually thinks it is okay to let his UNSPAYED >> BLACK cat get outside right before Halloween. It's beyond negligence. >> He has had one cat ripped apart by dogs in that very yard. > > She's probably at greater risk of getting knocked up than killed, but I > totally agree. And he just casually posts about discovering she has been getting out, like "haha, isn't she tricky." Then when I get upset about the danger she is in, he has to make it an ego issue, something about HIM and criticizing HIM.
f.ck him.
It is about a little black cat.
He could keep her safe and he is choosing not to.
"The dogs might not come back" is good enough for Barry.
It tells me something about his character that I will not forget.
This is not a person to be trusted--with ANYTHING.
Matthew - 20 Oct 2006 18:08 GMT > Declawing is a surgical procedure like any other, it is not a cruel > action. > Lina You all can deal with this one I am tired of the ignorance about declawing and the ignorance of the people that support it Specially with someone who has never posted here before
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