Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / September 2006
cat vomiting
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waweldragon@tiscali.co.uk - 14 Sep 2006 15:00 GMT I have a 5 year old Tomcat. He has just returned from the vet and I am anxious about the advice and treatment received. The vet is a very experienced one, but not (I am afraid to say) very compassionate (having supported actively, the movement to continue fox and deer hunting in the UK) The cat is if anything a tiny bit overweight but nothing like Obese. he is active and shows no signs of ill health generally. He shares my home with another cat.
Both my cats have access to the outdoors. Both stay in at night from dusk to early morning.
the feeding routine is
Dry food always available, as well as water
1/4 tin per cat of tinned cat food in the evening. The food always brings both cats scuttling indoors at quite a pace and they relish feeding time
Neither cat appear to drink excessively. If anything I would say the Tomcat does not drink enough (or at least I do not often see him drink. He certainly is not grabbing a chance often to drink. But then I keep water inside and on the doorstep.
A week ago, he was sick after eating. The next night he was sick about 3 hours afterwards.
For almost the whole week he was fine again. He gets stuck into his food and several times a day wanders into the hiuse for some dried food. But this morning he was sick. Stomach contents looked undigested from last night.
I took him to a vet. It was not a nice experience. He immediately dressed me down for feeing my cats dried food. He looked first in his mouth and then suggested to me that the cats breath smelled as if he had a kidney problem and asked me to smell. But I could not honestly say there was anything strong.
I had kept the cats vomit from this morning, in my fridge sealed up in a bag . But the vet was not interested to see it.
He did not take any temperature nor consider blood tests. Instead, with the cat screaming in terror and with me holding him and he injected him with Betamax. When I said what is that for, he said "to make him better" Hardly a reply which answers my queries. As the cat struggled the needle (still stuck in the cat) became disengaged from the syringe and so he had to pull it out and inject him again. He also did a lot of palpating, and told me the cat had got hard kidneys.
He also gave me some tablets for a few days starting on saturday, I presume some antibiotics
I asked him for a specific diagnosis but he was a bit vague and talked about a possible infection. But this cat is behaving essentially the same as always.
I am not sure about this advice concerning the dried food. As the animal appears better able to tolerate dried food, but not tinned food, I am very sceptical
He has certainly not lost any weight
I am anxious that I have been put to a lot of worry about what probably is not sufficient exploration to diagnose anything. Perhaps the vet just wants to scare me into changing to a total wet food diet and issued treatment to make me feel (a) he is doing something and (b) that I am irresponsible feeding dried food.
Here is the cat http://members.lycos.co.uk/waweldragon5/BELLA01/page1.htm
and a few weeks ago with his pal, my other cat, the beautiful Kim
http://members.lycos.co.uk/waweldragon5/BELLSANDKIM.jpg
Thanks very much Andrew
cybercat - 14 Sep 2006 15:25 GMT > 1/4 tin per cat of tinned cat food in the evening. The food always > brings both cats scuttling indoors at quite a pace and they relish > feeding time While I would not return to that vet (would you use a contractor to fix your house who you found this unpleasant?) he was right about dry food. Canned is better for your cats for a number of reasons I will let you Google up from this group. (We have had endless discussions on food.)
> Neither cat appear to drink excessively. If anything I would say the > Tomcat does not drink enough (or at least I do not often see him [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > food. But this morning he was sick. Stomach contents looked > undigested from last night. Do you mean the canned food? Because you free-feed him dry food, so how can you tell when he ate it? One bad thing about dry (this I know from feeding one of my cats on it her whole life before I knew any better) is that it expands in the stomach so that if they eat fast, they will hurl it. I think some cats eat dry food fast for the same reasons some people wolf "diet" this and "lowfat" that--they are trying to obtain a satisfaction they are just NOT going to get from what they are eating. Your cats need meat, not grain. Note the relish you talk about above, when you feed them the canned food at night.
Regarding throwing up: cats just do that. If it is a couple of times every few days, I don't worry about it.
Regardiing your vet: get another.
waweldragon@tiscali.co.uk - 14 Sep 2006 15:36 GMT Hi Cybercat. Thanks for that. Yep, he threw up the tinned food only. He copes fine with dried food when I first had him, and initially I was anxious about canned food because hisprevious owner said he (and his brother cat) did not tolerate it well. But I tentatively introduced it and generally successfully. He did used sometimes to chuck up the dried food too, Maybe every couple of months or so.
That vet scared the hell out of me talking about kidneys. I had gone thinking he might like to see the vomit, to help in a diagnosis. And perhaps he might run a blood test if he was thinking of something systemic.
I heard of cases whereby vets ( and sometimes human doctors) give antibiotic injections just to reassure the humans . I HOPE thats all it was here. And I am not sure I want to immediately withdraw dried food when he has chucked up the wet 3 times in the week. But Yes, I would consider a transition to the tinned and do that incrementally starting now.
> > 1/4 tin per cat of tinned cat food in the evening. The food always > > brings both cats scuttling indoors at quite a pace and they relish [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Regardiing your vet: get another. cybercat - 14 Sep 2006 15:46 GMT > Hi Cybercat. Thanks for that. Yep, he threw up the tinned food > only. He copes fine with dried food when I first had him, and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > did used sometimes to chuck up the dried food too, Maybe every > couple of months or so. You cat (assuming you can know how often he throws up, though how can you when he goes out?) upchucks a lot less than mine, and they are healthy. My first cat did it three times a week every week and lived to be twenty with no health problems until her final illness.
> That vet scared the hell out of me talking about kidneys. I had > gone thinking he might like to see the vomit, to help in a diagnosis. > And perhaps he might run a blood test if he was thinking of something > systemic.
> I heard of cases whereby vets ( and sometimes human doctors) give > antibiotic injections just to reassure the humans . I HOPE thats > all it was here. And I am not sure I want to immediately withdraw > dried food when he has chucked up the wet 3 times in the week. > But Yes, I would consider a transition to the tinned and do that > incrementally starting now. You know, you sound like a very good and concerned pet guardian. This vet sounds like an a.s. You paid him, right? Well then, you have a right to know why he gave the cat what he gave him. I would call him today and keep calling until I got the answers I wanted. You can certainly be polite but persistant. I cannot believe how roughly he treated your cat. Since he is pro-fox hunting, maybe he is one of those idiots who sneer at "small animal" treatment? In any case, I hope you will:
A. Get your questions answered (and lodge a complaint with the vet board if he won't) and B. Take your boy to another vet, one recommended by a friend.
You love this animal and need to put your mind at ease that you know what is going on and are giving him the care he needs, from a vet who cares what happens to him, you know?
For sure, if all that is wrong with him is the upchucking, I would not worry too much.
Sorry you have had to go through this, that vet really is an a.s.
waweldragon@tiscali.co.uk - 14 Sep 2006 16:05 GMT Hi Cybercat. Thanks very much for the replies. I really appreciate it. I think you are right about that vets approach to small animals. I won;t subject my animals to him again , BTW, opne other almost unbeleivable detail. In his consulting room, he had the window open (it is on the ground floor) Imagine my panicking cat in that room. I asked the vet to close the window, because if either of us lost a grip on the cat out he would have shot.
> > Hi Cybercat. Thanks for that. Yep, he threw up the tinned food > > only. He copes fine with dried food when I first had him, and [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Sorry you have had to go through this, that vet really is an a.s. Buddy's Mom - 14 Sep 2006 19:53 GMT Cats' breath smells different when they have furballs too. Have you thought of that?
Some cats eat too quickly and barf.
I agree with the others, you need a new vet.
> Hi Cybercat. Thanks very much for the replies. I really appreciate > it. I think you are right about that vets approach to small [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > > > Sorry you have had to go through this, that vet really is an a.s. waweldragon@tiscali.co.uk - 14 Sep 2006 20:42 GMT Thanks for the suggestion. In fact I think the vet was making a big thing of that smell issue. I let the cat (perhaps unwisely) lick my head quite often and I never smell anything problematic. I wish I hadnt rushed to that vet. As a result of his ordeal there with that semi botched antibiotic injection (of dubious neccesity) and rough handling he is not having any food this evening and is very subdued. And as he is a nervy cat it was a catastrophe. Tomorrow, I am keeping the cat in for the first part of the day, and hopefully might observe defamation and voiding (sounds a bit strange perhaps) but it seems it might be worthwhile . I won't seek a 2nd opinion unless there is any evident cause for concern. The 3 vomiting episodes in an 8 day period with 5 days of no vomiting and normal eating was probably premature for going to that psycho vet in the first place.
> Cats' breath smells different when they have furballs too. Have you > thought of that? [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > > > > > Sorry you have had to go through this, that vet really is an a.s. cybercat - 14 Sep 2006 21:31 GMT > Hi Cybercat. Thanks very much for the replies. I really appreciate > it. I think you are right about that vets approach to small [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cat in that room. I asked the vet to close the window, because if > either of us lost a grip on the cat out he would have shot. Ohhh boy. He needs to be reported to the authorities. Or in the very least, pass the word among other pet lovers you know.
The thing is, he was not only cruel to your cat but he was cruel to you. To have a sick animal is one thing, but to take it to a vet and have him act this way? Awful. And you PAID him.
waweldragon@tiscali.co.uk - 14 Sep 2006 23:07 GMT This is the text of my complaint which I am drafting. I am trying to be reasonable and firm
Complaint, concerning consultation
Thursday, 14 September 2006
I am writing to both explain my complaint and request your response. Before doing so, I must say I regret to write to anyone in these terms. Especially, as I have received a very agreeable service from your female colleagues, who showed compassion to the animals I have brought to your premises in the past. I believe one might describe your practice as a "no frills" one, in which the pluses are that the local community has access to low cost vet care. I continue to recognise and admire such an approach as it encourages more people to seek care for their pets. But my experience today has left me rather shocked and shaken, I feel I have no option but to spell out my concerns, and ask for your prompt response.
This afternoon I attended your surgery with my cat Bella. I explained the following
History Approximately one week ago he was sick after his evening meal of 1/4 tin of cat food. The following night he was sick but only after 3 hours. For several days I was unaware of any further vomiting in the evening or night. Early this morning, he was sick again.
I explained that both of my cats eat 1/4 tin meat in the evening, and the rest of the time have access to dried food and fresh water.
Examination Prior to your physical examination of Bella, you sought to advise me about the disadvantages of a dried food diet. You asked about the other cat, whether or not she was experiencing similar problems, which she was not.
You did not ask about his general medical history, nor enquire about his vaccination or worming status. You were unable to find any notes in the system relating to him, although I had bought him previously and received treatment.
You palpated his abdomen and suggested that I smell his breath, and proposed the opinion that it was a clinical indication of a kidney problem which you also claimed to identify from the palpation of the kidneys.
You suggested that you would give him an injection and you asked me to hold him which did. He was certainly distressed during your examination and your handling was rough and attitude to the animal detached and callous. In administering the injection, he struggled and cried and during this your needle became detached from the syringe. As he struggled and cried you removed the needle.
You stated you needed to repeat the process. I was left to hold him whilst you prepared a repeat attempt, and I noted the window in your consultation room was wide open which in my view means your patients could easily escape and become lost, injured or killed, as the surgery is actually on a main road. I asked you to close the window and you muttered something about not being concerned with the window but worried about the cat. However you did close the window, and then I asked you what was the particular function of the drug being administered. You retorted that it was "to make him better" This was a patronising response to a legitimate question from a concerned owner. It should have been obvious I wanted to know exactly what you were treating, what was the strategy. During the injection and as the cat struggled and cried, you were urging it to shut up and be quiet. This was an absolutely incredible way to behave.
I had bought with me, a bag containing the vomit which the cat produced in the early morning and which I had kept in a refrigerator. I had thought it might be relevant for you to see and thought I was acting as a responsible owner. But you said
" I have no need to see some cats vomit please put it in the bin."
It struck me as somewhat dismissive. I considered it to be one element which might assist you in diagnosis.
Having administered this injection you provided some tablets in a envelope on which you wrote the dose. There was no note on the envelope describing the name of the drug, and you did not describe it specifically. I can only assume it was an oral antibiotic.
My complaints in summary are as follows
1. Your handling of the cat was rough and lacked any attempt to show compassion for the animal, or for me, the customer and owner. It ought to be evident that the owner/customer is anxious about their pet's health, and that requires both frankness with a compassionate approach.
2. This was aggravated and illustrated by the fact that the examination room was not a secure environment, regarding the wide open window. It ought to be obvious that felines are fast and dexterous in the matter of escape. I could hardly believe that a vet with decades of practice would leave his consultation area so vulnerable.
3. You conclusions concerning kidney problems were ambiguous are not well supported by the history. There were no complaints of excessive drinking, nor of loss of weight. The vomiting was not consistent or prolonged. You had not proposed other diagnostic tests in relation to that. And you did not ask about parasites, preventative or therapeutic treatment for such, and you actively declined to examine the vomitus.
You did not listen to the animals chest, nor take his temperature.
Furthermore, since returning home following an essentially arbitrary dosage of intravenous antibiotic ( no attempt being made to assess the actual amount administered, you just drew another dose and started again) Bella has been more lethargic than I have ever known. In fact he could hardly walk.
4. It is clear that your record keeping and prescription notation leaves a great deal to be desired. Cash is handed over, no receipts are provided. Tablets are issued in envelopes without any drug name written. How can this be competent practice, ?
I wish to secure your response to my complaint without delay. I am deeply concerned about this.
Yours sincerely,
> > Hi Cybercat. Thanks very much for the replies. I really appreciate > > it. I think you are right about that vets approach to small [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > To have a sick animal is one thing, but to take it to a vet and have him > act this way? Awful. And you PAID him. cybercat - 15 Sep 2006 02:35 GMT > This is the text of my complaint which I am drafting. I am trying to > be reasonable and firm > > Complaint, concerning consultation > > Thursday, 14 September 2006 [snips great letter]
I think this is very good. Your concern comes through, and you refrain from showing anger, which I would find hard to do under the circumstances.
However, It seems to me that anyone callous enough to behave as he did will be callous enough to ignore your letter. If he does, or if you find his response unsatisfactory, I hope you will forward the letter to your regional veterinary board. (I especially liked your last line, letting him know that you expect a response and soon. It was just enough to let him know you mean business. But do follow up. He needs to learn that he cannot treat his patients or their humans this way.
Let us know how it turns out.
cybercat - 14 Sep 2006 15:29 GMT > Both my cats have access to the outdoors. Both stay in at night from > dusk to early morning. One last thought: while I realize that you live in the UK and so the mere thought of keeping your cats indoors where they are safe is probably repugnant to you, the fact is, you cannot have any idea what your cats are ingesting when you allow them to roam unsupervised. Neighbors poisoning voles, mice, or rats? Using insecticides on their gardens or grass?
waweldragon@tiscali.co.uk - 14 Sep 2006 15:59 GMT > > Both my cats have access to the outdoors. Both stay in at night from > > dusk to early morning. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ingesting when you allow them to roam unsupervised. Neighbors poisoning > voles, mice, or rats? Using insecticides on their gardens or grass? It isnt repugnant to me. But these cats were both raised as outdoor cats by their previous owners. It isnt on a main road. Both are neutered and never bring back prey. I realise there is a risk involved in having an outdoor cat. Thankfully, my neighbors dont bother with their gardens
RobZip - 14 Sep 2006 16:24 GMT > I took him to a vet. It was not a nice experience. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > disengaged from the syringe and so he had to pull it out and inject > him again. It sounds like shopping around for a new vet would be in order here. Such a lack of compassion may just cause him to overlook something essential in a more critical care situation.
Rhonda - 14 Sep 2006 18:05 GMT I'll echo cc -- I would find a different vet. I wouldn't trust a vet who "smells" for a problem but does not do any tests. He was far too vague.
Cats can develop food allergies, although many times it is to a grain like wheat or corn in the food. When our cat had suspected food allergies we had to use a prescription allergy food that had very few ingredients -- and one odd protein (like duck or venison) and one odd starch (like peas.)
I would start off with another vet though, and make sure there is nothing poisonous in the garden. Maybe you know this but lilies are a killer of cats, even a little bit of the pollen.
Good luck,
Rhonda
> I have a 5 year old Tomcat. He has just returned from the vet and > I am anxious about the advice and treatment received.
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