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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / August 2006Ugh - End of our rope with constipation...
Hi, We are new to this group, and from what we've read it's a great forum... Nice to see so many like-minded people! My Miss worked at a vet clinic until recently and this problem predates her leaving - we've never had success with it through the vet and we're hoping to find a second opinion here. :) We have a male, neutered and declawed. 5 years old and king of the roost. Well, hestarted having trouble with #2 a while back. An enema and a switch to soft food seemed to solve the problem. Then he needed another trip to the Doc and that was followed by the addition of 2 doses of Lactalose to his diet. Worked for a while. Then another trip was required... A dose of Cisapride was added to the diet twice daily along WITH the Lactalose. This guy is the envy of the other cats as he munches on MediCal Weight Control soft cans to which his medicine is added. Before my girlfriend finished at the vet, they gave her the materials to give enemas at home. We gave one two Saturdays ago, noticed a bowel movement that day and the following Tuesday, but that was it. Another enema followed the next Saturday, and we think he went #2 again on Tuesday or Wednesday... But now we're back to Saturday again and I know what that brings.... :) With these two doses of two medicines every day as well as a soft food diet - what are we to do??? Help is appreciated... Our two other beasts are healthy and probably quite happy they're not held down on the bathroom floor once a week! ;) Thank you, C&L What kind of litter are you using? This is very important. Hope you are not using clumping silicone clay....if so...switch immediately...I would recommend a natural litter such as feline Pine clumping (looks like a bag of sawdust) or even the pellets...could be that kitty is injesting some of the clay litter when grooming....Clumping litter can cause problems for some cats - maybe your kitty is injesting the litter? What kind of dry food are you using, I really like Nutro Natural choices - > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > C&L What kind of litter are you using? This is very important. Hope you are not using clumping silicone clay....if so...switch immediately...I would recommend a natural litter such as feline Pine clumping (looks like a bag of sawdust) or even the pellets...could be that kitty is injesting some of the clay litter when grooming....Clumping litter can cause problems for some cats - maybe your kitty is injesting the litter? What kind of dry food are you using, I really like Nutro Natural choices - > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > C&L Using canned food is helpful. Do you groom him? The more hair he injests, the more constipated he will become. Cats are like people - some have no constipation and some do. Also, I have great success with Temptations Treats for Hairballs. Give 5-8 per day and they do the trick. They come in little foil packs at Pet Smart, etc. and some grocery stores. Also some cats just don't go daily. Some may be every other day. But with canned food, keeping him groomed and giving him daily Temptations [my cat loves them] you should be constipation free. Let us know. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > C&L I personally had a constipation problem until I added more fiber to my diet. Maybe your cat needs more fiber. You might try canned pumpkin if he will eat it. ---MIKE--- >>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire >> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580') [S] || With these two doses of two medicines every day as well as a soft || food diet - what are we to do??? || || Help is appreciated... Our two other beasts are healthy and probably || quite happy they're not held down on the bathroom floor once a week! *My guess is* a lack of lactobacillus acidophilus (often killed off by anti-biotic treatment) I'm told Yakult is not available in USa? The advantage of using Yakult is that it has hundreds of millions of *live* bacteria which will instantly replenish the good bacteria which go to work ensuring that a cat's digestive system is then working efficiently and effectively. Which means the cat will have a shine on it's number two :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakult This is actually for humans possibly sold under different name in your supermarket fridge 100 mls (Tablespoon) is more than enough It is cheap (single bottle/dose under a dollar) but effective and cannot harm your cat, Will only do good (once done then followed by normal diet with fresh water available should not need repeating unless your cat or cats start showing symptoms of bad breath (check teeth) or constipation Or try home made recipe (next is will cats eat it?) 1. 1 can of evaporated milk 2. ½ can of water 3. 1 small container of plain yogurt, make sure it's an active culture and use only plain yogurt. 4. 2 egg yokes (not the whites) 5. 1 small jar of strained baby food chicken meat. Blend this all and refrigerate. It lasts about a week in the refrigerator An Infomercial about a lactobacillus acidophilus product to give you the idea <http://www.wellvet.com/spogogenes.html> Not associated with this product and there are probably a number of similar types  SignaturePetzl -- Check your computers security (free) <http://security.symantec.com> > [S] > || With these two doses of two medicines every day as well as a soft [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > use only plain yogurt. > 4. 2 egg yokes (not the whites) It's not safe to use raw eggs in the United States, particularly the yolks. Even if the shell is intact, there is a risk of salmonella contamination. > 5. 1 small jar of strained baby food chicken meat. > Blend this all and refrigerate. It lasts about a week in the refrigerator [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > <http://www.wellvet.com/spogogenes.html> Not associated with this product > and there are probably a number of similar types || On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 10:17:00 +1000, Petzl wrote: || [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] || yolks. Even if the shell is intact, there is a risk of salmonella || contamination. If this is the case there is something seriously wrong with USa health administration? I would only expect this from contact with wild birds. Not fresh eggs from a domestic supplier (Supermarket)? For years I have eaten "sushi" dipped in raw VERY fresh eggs ||| 5. 1 small jar of strained baby food chicken meat. ||| Blend this all and refrigerate. It lasts about a week in the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] ||| -- ||| Petzl > || On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 10:17:00 +1000, Petzl wrote: > || [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > I would only expect this from contact with wild birds. Not fresh eggs from a > domestic supplier (Supermarket)? My guess is that the reverse is true. Commercial laying hens are routinely fed antibiotics which enable some to survive and pass on the infection, but infected wild birds would likely die. > For years I have eaten "sushi" dipped in raw VERY fresh eggs From the U.S. Centers for Disease Control website: "Salmonella enteritidis Infection Egg-associated salmonellosis is an important public health problem in the United States and several European countries. A bacterium, Salmonella enteritidis, can be inside perfectly normal-appearing eggs, and if the eggs are eaten raw or undercooked, the bacterium can cause illness. During the 1980s, illness related to contaminated eggs occurred most frequently in the northeastern United States, but now illness caused by S. enteritidis is increasing in other parts of the country as well. ... How eggs become contaminated Unlike eggborne salmonellosis of past decades, the current epidemic is due to intact and disinfected grade A eggs. Salmonella enteritidis silently infects the ovaries of healthy appearing hens and contaminates the eggs before the shells are formed. ... " http://www.cdc.gov/NCIDOD/DBMD/DISEASEINFO/salment_g.htm > ||| 5. 1 small jar of strained baby food chicken meat. > ||| Blend this all and refrigerate. It lasts about a week in the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ||| -- > ||| Petzl || On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 11:55:34 +1000, Petzl wrote: ||||| It's not safe to use raw eggs in the United States, particularly ||||| the yolks. Even if the shell is intact, there is a risk of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] || routinely fed antibiotics which enable some to survive and pass on || the infection, but infected wild birds would likely die. Again and apparently USa only. Infected commecail birds *outside* USa would immediately be destroyed? ||| For years I have eaten "sushi" dipped in raw VERY fresh eggs || From the U.S. Centers for Disease Control website: || "Salmonella enteritidis Infection [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] || ... " || http://www.cdc.gov/NCIDOD/DBMD/DISEASEINFO/salment_g.htm Which is complete rubbish (caused by the USa not addressing the issues)? Bird flu is around the corner and the USa "health" centre needs to divert from pre 1900's to at least 20th century tactics or EVERY citizen in the USa is about to die or at very least face serious and massive infection/plague problems SignaturePetzl -- Check your computers security (free) <http://security.symantec.com> > || On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 11:55:34 +1000, Petzl wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > is about to die or at very least face serious and massive infection/plague > problems Apples and oranges. H5N1 is a rapidly progressing (to death) infection affecting large numbers of birds in a commercial flock. The likely means of control in the U.S. would be destroying the flock. Otoh hens with a sub-clinical ovarian salmonella infection can/do live to lay the infected eggs. Salmonella in eggs is hardly a U.S. only problem; from BBC, 6/15/2006: "Ban call over salmonella findings A report which revealed more than 50% of poultry farms in some EU countries were contaminated with salmonella has sparked calls for a ban on egg imports. ... In the UK, almost 12% were found to have salmonella contamination - the third lowest in Europe. ..." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5082324.stm > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > her leaving - we've never had success with it through the vet and we're > hoping to find a second opinion here. :) Oh boy, we know this problem! We have a former-feral cat (11 years old) who lives under the bed. She could have had problems for awhile and we wouldn't have known, since other cats use the box. She recently stopped going altogether. I saw her struggling in the litter box. The vet worked with her for just over a week with no luck at all. We finally went to a surgeon at her suggestion. Sweeter had her colon removed and is now recovering. The surgeon said when he sees cats with this problem, many times they have been struggling for years. The colon can lose its elasticity and just get huge. It doesn't have the muscle capacity any longer to push the stuff out and the cat gets mega-colon. (Google cat and maga-colon if you haven't already, there's some good info on the web.) With Sweeter's operation, she now has her small intestine doing the work as best it can. The surgeon said her colon actually tore when he touched it -- it was so thin. I'm glad we had it done, even though it's not been an easy ride. If you've been working with this for awhile without luck, you might take your cat's x-rays and history to a good surgeon and at least talk about it. It's not something to take lightly, but neither is a cat in constant discomfort. Our vet had us giving Sweeter sub-cu fluids every day until surgery, trying to flush out some of the toxins building up. Good luck, Rhonda Suddenly, without warning, Us exclaimed (06-Aug-06 5:37 AM): > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > C&L Couple of thoughts, our kitty tends towards constipation as well: 1) Make sure he's drinking enough water. Put water bowls in different places, get a Drinkwell, just get him drinking more. Meep has a Drinkwell in one room, a water bowl in our bedroom, and another downstairs near her tree. She drinks from all three. We're using filtered water, as she doesn't like the taste of tap water. At other locations, we've had to use bottled water 2) Groom him regularly - every day if you can. If he doesn't regularly throw up hairballs, all the hair is going out the other end. I'm pretty sure this is what backs Meep up. 3) If he won't eat pumpkin, try Benefiber. Meep and I both use it - she gets a very little in her wet at night, doesn't bother her at all, but does seem to help. 4) Give hairball medicine regularly, or use the treats suggested by another poster. I can't get the treats where I am, so Meep gets some hairball stuff every other night. 5) Try a single, higher dose of the laculose. Normally Meep'll get 1ml, but when needed, I'll give her 2ml - only done this once or twice, but it did the trick each time. Hope this helps. Even with these measures, Meep still only poos every 2nd or 3rd night, but it's better than she was doing. jmc Hi again everyone... Thank you all very much for the prompt and informative responses... I have answers to a couple of questions... - The litter we use is standard Wal-Mart special kitty scoopable and we've been using the same brand for years. - The canned food is MediCal Weight Control Soft. - He does drink a lot, but this summer the climate here has been a lot drier than last summer (his first summer in this province) - We groom regularly, but perhaps not regularly enough - that's worth a try. Last night I felt about his middle and I could feel the stool inside his lower belly - this morning I don't feel anything! So... We're wondering now if the two meds are changing the colour and consistency of the stool and maybe we're just missing the occasions that he does use the litterbox. It's been tricky because he was an "every day" cat and now perhaps he's a "twice weekly" cat. Either way - if he goes on strike again we'll step up to fiber but in the meantime we'll groom more regularly and post a webcam over the litterbox to see if we can catch him in the act. (JUST KIDDING!!!) :D Again, thank you everyone! We'll be lurking this list. :) C&L > Either way - if he goes on strike again we'll step up to fiber but in > the meantime we'll groom more regularly and post a webcam over the > litterbox to see if we can catch him in the act. (JUST KIDDING!!!) :D litter box voyer tcht thct there is a program called "watcher" it turns your web cam into a motion detector and only records when there is movement you can adjust the sensitivity I set one up for a neighbor, her kids kept stealing from her she caught them red handed! I think there's another program called gotcha, it does the same thing HAHA - her kids were stealing from her? That's harsh! (albeit funny...) I guess that's why we have cats. :) C&L > > Either way - if he goes on strike again we'll step up to fiber but in > > the meantime we'll groom more regularly and post a webcam over the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I think there's another program called gotcha, it does the same thing Suddenly, without warning, bobmarley exclaimed (07-Aug-06 5:33 AM): >> Either way - if he goes on strike again we'll step up to fiber but in >> the meantime we'll groom more regularly and post a webcam over the >> litterbox to see if we can catch him in the act. (JUST KIDDING!!!) :D > > litter box voyer tcht thct It's been done already: http://www.litterboxcam.com/ Found another one too: http://www.jugglingcats.com/webcam/litterboxcam.htm The program the other poster was mentioning might be Webcam Watcher http://www.webcam-watcher.com/, I used to use this but it seems to have a memory leak and causes problems when used for a long time. jmc > Suddenly, without warning, bobmarley exclaimed (07-Aug-06 5:33 AM): > > litter box voyer tcht thct > It's been done already: http://www.litterboxcam.com/ is that food bowls out in the middle of the floor? I guess whatever works, seems like the cats would protest > Hi again everyone... > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Last night I felt about his middle and I could feel the stool inside > his lower belly - this morning I don't feel anything! Another simple thing you can do is mix some water in with his canned food. Even a teaspoon or two of water is that much more help flush out his system. >> Hi again everyone... >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > canned food. Even a teaspoon or two of water is that much more > help flush out his system. And even better and more accepted, some tuna water. My cats love the water that's drained from a can of tuna, and if any of them were having pooping problems, I would freeze the water from a can in ice cube trays, and thaw it out and give it to them regularly. I had a cat with megacolon and by the time it was diagnosed, he required surgery and I opted to not do it. The prognosis was bad, and the missing part of his lower intestines meant poor digestion for the rest of his life. I wouldn't do that to him. SignatureCheryl > And even better and more accepted, some tuna water. My cats love > the water that's drained from a can of tuna, and if any of them [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and the missing part of his lower intestines meant poor digestion > for the rest of his life. I wouldn't do that to him. Cheryl, Our cat just had mega-colon surgery and the surgeon and our regular vet said cat's digestion is not affected, but since the colon is missing the cat may have diarrhea (the colon draws the water out at the last stage to form solid feces.) They also said some cats even form more or less normal stools afterwards, that cats can cope amazingly well. What did your vet mean by "poor digestion?" Sweeter's surgery is done, but I'm interested in another opinion. How is your cat coping with mega-colon without surgery? They worked on Sweeter for over a week with 3 enemas a day and other awful things, and nothing worked for her. Even if they could have dug the stuff out, I couldn't bear the thought of her having these problems for the rest of her life. As I understand it, once the colon is stretched out enough to be mega-colon, it probably will never work correctly again. It loses it's elasticity and ability to push the stuff through. Rhonda > How is your cat coping with mega-colon without surgery? They > worked on Sweeter for over a week with 3 enemas a day and other [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > probably will never work correctly again. It loses it's > elasticity and ability to push the stuff through. Rhonda, I deliberately didn't write during your ordeal with Sweeter, because Marley wasn't a survivor of megacolon and I didn't want you to lose hope. And I'm glad to read that she's doing well post-surgery. When I wrote "poor digestion" I meant that the surgeon said he'd have chronic diarrhea. When given the option of surgery to remove most of his colon to relieve the megacolon, and the possible side-effects, since it was an urgent decision to be made (he couldn't sh.t, so no time to waste) I decided to have him put down. I think if I knew what I know now I might have gone forward with the surgery, but what I was told, it sounded like a horrible life. Please know, this was pre- Usenet for me. I think I found these groups just as he was getting bound up. SignatureCheryl Ah, that's so sad. It was a scary decision for us too, and I'm very glad the surgeon sounded so confident. He told us that he gets the most thank-you gifts from owners of cats that have this surgery. That helped with my attitude about it. It was a tough road, especially since Sweeter was his first patient to get a septic infection. She's doing so well now, and is able to get to the litter box before she cuts loose! She recently had her stitches out and I asked the vet to examine her throat area, because I could feel swollen glands. She's on antibiotics again, possibly with a tooth or some other kind of infection. I hope that's all it is, she's been through enough. The vet said having a couple of surgeries like that may have weakened her system enough to let another bacteria, like in her teeth, get a strong-hold. I'm thankful that she's flopping on her side and enjoying life though. I guess we never know what's in the future for these guys. Thanks for telling me about your cat. I had never even heard of this problem before Sweeter got sick. Take care, Rhonda > Rhonda, I deliberately didn't write during your ordeal with > Sweeter, because Marley wasn't a survivor of megacolon and I didn't [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Usenet for me. I think I found these groups just as he was getting > bound up. > Hi again everyone... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > we've been using the same brand for years. > - The canned food is MediCal Weight Control Soft. this is probably part of your problem. A lot of these diets are high in fiber which can actually be constipating. I would switch him to a high-protein low-carb canned diet and suplement it with cooked chicken and turkey (fat included). -L. Natural litters such as pine are helpful to avoid clogging digestion (the cats ingest their litter when cleaning their paws) and mixing some INDOOR FORMULA food into his food should supply some gentle fiber. I hope your King finds relief soon, and my best, LB > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > C&L
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