I am struggling here...and really need some advice. I also think that
have to give a lot of history just to get you all up to speed. Please
if you have a few minutes, read this and share your insight an
thoughts with me - I can use all of the help I can get!
I adopted two 3 year old silver tipped persian brothers from a shelte
(they were found abandonned) in mid-March. They were front declawed b
previous owners. I have never owned or wanted to own a purebred, bu
these guys stole my heart in the shelter...anyway, I have had urinatio
problems pretty much since I got them, though it took me some time t
realize that the "cat smell" wasn't just from now owning cats but wa
from the cats peeing outside of their box. They peed on carpets and m
couch, and on occasion, on my bed. I couldn't figure out WHAT was goin
on but tried a lot of solutions. I changed their litter, added a bo
(for a total of 2), tried different litters in different boxes, go
Feliway, removed the carpets, throw rug and down comforter, adde
another litter box (for a total of 3), scooped the litter once, twic
then three times a day, took them to the vet. Cyrus had crystals and
very high Ph; Leo had a slightly high Ph. Ah ha! A UTI. Easil
solved. At this point, I still didn't know who was peeing (if it wa
both or only one). I put them both on prescription wet and dry foo
but the peeing kept up. So, I added methioform to their diets to u
the prescription factor.
Still, I had pee. The longer this has gone on, the more I figured out
The pee has been narrowed to three spots: the couch (usually the spo
that Cyrus liked to sleep), the bed (usually in the spot where Cyru
liked to sleep, though Leo sleeps every night in another spot on th
bed close to me, Cyrus only naps on the bed and sleeps nights on
chair right next to the bed), and in the closet against the wall besid
one of the litter boxes (located in a pantry type closet with an ope
door). To minimize the incidents and risks, I have kept the bedroo
door closed when I am not home (though once or twice he peed on it whe
I was home!) and tilting up the couch cushions when I am not home.
also had the couch professionally cleaned and enzymed to rid it o
smells. Each time I think I have made progress and have loosened m
precautions, it is merely a matter of time before it begins again.
think (almost positively) that it is Leo that is doing the peein
(though I keep thinking I need a nanny-cam to be sure). I see Cyru
use the box and he is way mellower overall. Leo is super needy an
lovey and a little more desiring of attention most of the time. Oh,
should mention, I am single and have a pretty hectic life. I am ofte
not home all day long and occasionally stay at my boyfriend's for th
night. He too has a cat so we try to be fair about spending time wit
each other and making sure that we aren't abandoning our cats in th
meantime.
The latest idea is to put Leo on anti-anxiety medications once a day
yes, I have my cat on Prozac. But, the downfall is that Leo is th
WORST pill taker. I mean, if he wasn't anxious before-hand, he woul
be after the ordeal each night of trying to give him this pill.
tried putting a towel around him on the counter to force the pill.
also tried hiding it in "treats" or other food to get it in.
Unfortunately, I have found that the only way I can get it in him is t
disolve it in tuna water; I think that the tuna smells so strong an
good that it goes right down. However, here is the clincher. Fish i
not good for cats with UTI's. Though I don't worry so much about Le
and all of that (since he really barely had one to begin with), I hav
had an impossible time not giving some tuna to Cyrus too because he ca
smell it, even though he doesn't take the Prozac. So, I've been givin
it to Cy too, and now, smart cat that he is, he doesn't want othe
prescription anti-UTY wet food in the morning because he knows that th
tuna exists. He does eat the prescription anti-UTI dry food in th
meantime, but since he has a propensity towards UTI's, I worry abou
the tuna thing. Tonight, I put the methioform with the fish, which
probably did very little, but it was a step.
So, my questions (if you've gotten this far) are...
Any ideas about this pee problem?
Any other trick foods that's smell may overpower that of the medicine
enough to give to Leo, without risking Cy's health?
Any thoughts at all???!!
I feel like I read all the time about cats having urinary problems, but
neither I, nor anyone I personally know, has ever had them. So...here I
am with a "common" problem and no practical knowledge or advice. I love
these kitties to pieces and take my commitment to adopt them very
seriously, yet, people keep saying "why don't you get rid of one. they
are probably marking which you can't stop without removing one". I
just don't want to believe this. Partly because I love them each so
much for different reasons and can't imagine choosing one over the
other, but also because I actually think that they like each other.
They occasionally bicker slightly (swatting annoyedly at each other)
and occasionally sleep on top of each other, each cleaning the other
and mostly coexist fine. So...I am hoping you all have some ideas for
my so so sweet boys!!!
Thank you so much in advance.

Signature
Mom of 2 Cuties
Wendy - 18 Jul 2006 12:41 GMT
> I am struggling here...and really need some advice. I also think that I
> have to give a lot of history just to get you all up to speed. Please,
[quoted text clipped - 84 lines]
>
> Thank you so much in advance.
Just some random thoughts here.
You can give one of your cats fluoresce. This is a dye that will assist you
in identifying which cat is urinating outside the box. You feed it to a cat
and then check the spots where the cat is peeing outside the box with a
black light. The urine from the treated cat will fluoresce bright yellow.
Once you determine for sure which cat is the 'guilty party' you can
concentrate your efforts on that cat.
Have you checked the paws to make sure they are healed properly? If a
declawed cat is having pain in his paws he's likely to avoid the box. Even
if the paws appear to be healed properly, the litter might be hurting their
paws or he could be having phantom pain. You may want to avoid perfumed
litter. I forget what consistency is recommended and hope someone else will
chime in on this. If it hurts to use the box though the cat will avoid it.
Have you had a follow up urine test done to make sure the diet change has
addressed the problem? My cat Isabelle had a URI a couple of years back that
took 5 weeks on antibiotics to clear up.
You could pick up some lengths of plastic floor runner. They sell it at
places like Home Depot. It's on a big roll in the store so you can purchase
the length you need. If you put in down pointy side up that will discourage
the cat from going there.
That's all that I can think of offhand but you might want to try googling
'inappropriate urination cat declaw'. There's a lot of info out there on
this subject.
Good luck and thanks for being willing to work with these cats.
W
Wendy - 18 Jul 2006 12:43 GMT
Have you tried using a pill crusher (available at Pet Smart) to grind the
pill into a powder and then mixing that with wet food?
> I am struggling here...and really need some advice. I also think that I
> have to give a lot of history just to get you all up to speed. Please,
[quoted text clipped - 84 lines]
>
> Thank you so much in advance.
Mike - 18 Jul 2006 14:10 GMT
Is there a liquid form of the medication available? My particularly anxious
cat somehow let's me pick her up, place her off to the side of me and,
holding the scruff of her neck with my less-dominant hand, I coax an
eye-dropper full of the medicine in her mouth. She moves her head around in
protest, but I eventually have a couple openings to empty the dropper. It
usually doesn't take but about 30 seconds now. She then gets kitty treats
immediately afterwards.
> I am struggling here...and really need some advice. I also think that I
> have to give a lot of history just to get you all up to speed. Please,
> if you have a few minutes, read this and share your insight and
> thoughts with me - I can use all of the help I can get!
Ann - 18 Jul 2006 15:14 GMT
> I am struggling here...and really need some advice. I also think that I
> have to give a lot of history just to get you all up to speed. Please,
> if you have a few minutes, read this and share your insight and thoughts
> with me - I can use all of the help I can get!
<...>
> Unfortunately, I have found that the only way I can get it in him is to
> disolve it in tuna water; I think that the tuna smells so strong and
> good that it goes right down. However, here is the clincher. Fish is
> not good for cats with UTI's.
It's not the tuna meat, rather the fact that canned tuna (and other fish)
has lots of bone in it. I have no idea whether the cats would accept it,
but you could try getting some type of fresh fish with easy to remove
bones. Cook it enough that it's safe, then puree it in a blender with
water (or oil).
I have usually had luck lightly "buttering" pills. It slips down the cat's
throat easier so he/she doesn't have as much opportunity to spit it out.
My best guess is that the urination problem was established at the cats'
previous home(s). Possibly the owner didn't get them neutered before they
started territorial spraying. I agree with the suggestion to try plastic
over the places the cats have been using.
Mom of 2 Cuties - 18 Jul 2006 20:19 GMT
Interesting about the bone issue (vs. fish). I'll keep that in mind an
maybe experiment around it. Any thoughts about whether canned chicke
is as bad
--
Mom of 2 Cuties
hamandcheese@betweentheknees.com - 19 Jul 2006 02:38 GMT
>Interesting about the bone issue (vs. fish). I'll keep that in mind and
>maybe experiment around it. Any thoughts about whether canned chicken
>is as bad?
Get some salmon flavored pill pockets from your vet (45 for about
$4.50). Cats can't resist them. They even make a good treat so you can
get him hooked.
-mhd
Ann - 19 Jul 2006 04:42 GMT
> Interesting about the bone issue (vs. fish). I'll keep that in mind and
> maybe experiment around it. Any thoughts about whether canned chicken
> is as bad?
I wouldn't think chicken would be as bad. If we're talking human canned
tuna, I doubt it has as much bone as tuna cat food. If you look at a cat
food label, there is a listing for % Ash. That at least used to be
considered the number to look at for cats with urinary problems; lower is
better.
Mom of 2 Cuties - 18 Jul 2006 17:37 GMT
I have tried crushing the pill into the wet food and he turns his nos
up at it in an instant. Clearly, he can smell it.
I've thought about the fluoricide option, but I really don't feel lik
the issue is with Cyrus. I see him use the box all the time. Leo, o
the other hand, I don't see use the box all that often and hav
actually caught him peeing outside of it twice...
Good thoughts about the paw issue...however, he does use the bo
sometimes. Certainly for defacating he does. And sometimes for pee
just not always.
I use unscented scoopable litter. I have also tried "cat attract" i
it to lure them to it more often. Either way, I am still finding pee.
Thanks for your insight and keep the ideas coming. I know that ther
MUST be a solution...and I really can't envision giving one away
--
Mom of 2 Cuties
blkcatgal - 19 Jul 2006 04:34 GMT
My cat took prozac for inappropriate urination. I obtained the meds from a
compounding pharmacy that was able to compound the med into a flavored chew
treat (chicken, tuna, etc). They also offered flavored liquid compounds.
The pharmacy I used was Veterinary Pharmacy of America (website is
vetrxrx.com). You will need a prescription from your vet or your vet can
call them with the prescription.
Sue
> I am struggling here...and really need some advice. I also think that I
> have to give a lot of history just to get you all up to speed. Please,
[quoted text clipped - 84 lines]
>
> Thank you so much in advance.
jmc - 19 Jul 2006 12:03 GMT
Suddenly, without warning, Mom of 2 Cuties exclaimed (18-Jul-06 1:49 PM):
> I am struggling here...and really need some advice. I also think that I
> have to give a lot of history just to get you all up to speed. Please,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> from the cats peeing outside of their box. They peed on carpets and my
> couch, and on occasion, on my bed.
> So, my questions (if you've gotten this far) are...
> Any ideas about this pee problem?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Thank you so much in advance.
Have you tried Feliway? It's available in a diffuser and in a spray,
and it's original use was to treat exactly the problem you're having;
now it's used generally to help reduce anxiety in cats.
I've used it with some success to reduce Meep's travel anxiety by
spraying her box. I couldn't get a diffuser so the first week or two in
this new house I sprayed around the upstairs (where she spent most of
her time) while she was sleeping. Despite being thin and anxious from
quarantine, she settled in very quickly - may have been the Feliway, I'm
not sure.
As far as treats, Meep loves hairball medicine, so I'll sometimes hide a
pill in that. I've also heard peanut butter is good, or just butter,
but never tried them myself. Personally, I prefer a liquid medicine if
it's available. Much easier and quicker. Meep's getting occasional
laxatone right now for constipation, and I can get that into her with no
issues at all.
jmc
Mom of 2 Cuties - 19 Jul 2006 21:06 GMT
I have been using feliway
--
Mom of 2 Cuties
Adam Helberg - 20 Jul 2006 07:29 GMT
Just get a $5 pill "gun" that looks like a syringe, and makes giving a pill to a cat
much easier. You can buy one at Petco or Petsmart.
Adam
wilbur@post.com - 27 Jul 2006 22:39 GMT
> Just get a $5 pill "gun" that looks like a syringe, and makes giving a
> pill to a cat much easier. You can buy one at Petco or Petsmart.
I tried it and I couldn't get the cat to keep her mouth open long enough,
plus it's hard on the animal.
I've written this before in this group, and I find this to be the best
way:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I've found the easiest way to give a cat a pill is to buy some low sodium
turkey breast at the appetizing counter of your supermarket or deli.
1)crunch the pill into powder using a folded piece of paper and a spoon
(or any hard object).
Put pressure on the spoon and crunch the pill into a fine powder.
2) Put a little powder into a small piece of turkey breast and then roll
it up so that the powder isn't visible and easy to smell over the scent
of the turkey. Do that until you have enough pieces for the whole pill.
I use at most 1/3 of a slice of turkey breast.
My cat, who is extremely particular regarding what she eats, will eat at
least 3/4 of it, leaving over what she can tell is the strange smelling
turkey that contains the powder. She always comes back licking her chops
for more, knowing that she will only get her treat when it's pill time
again. I immediately take the left overs and roll them up in minute
pieces of turkey breast and she finishes it.
It's actually gotten to the point where I give her her topical med, and
she then waits for the pill!
Good luck and I hope this helps.
Adam Helberg - 04 Sep 2006 20:13 GMT
>> Just get a $5 pill "gun" that looks like a syringe, and makes giving a
>> pill to a cat much easier. You can buy one at Petco or Petsmart.
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> Good luck and I hope this helps.
Whatever works. I had a hyperthyroid cat and the pill syringe worked well to give her
methimazole twice a day. The syringe slips into her mouth and is inserted so the
mouth stays open. In fact it must be inserted deep enough so she swallows by reflex
and not spit the pill out.
Adam
kjira - 30 Sep 2006 05:53 GMT
Mom of 2 Cuties-
I am in the same boat- my cat started peeing four years ago, and
despite everything I tried (multiple cat boxes, different litter,
covered/uncovered, etc.) nothing helped. I've even had the vet examine
her to make sure it wasn't a UTI. Finally, the vet recommended Prozac.
I was kind of weirded out by the idea at first, too, but it actually
works. At first she was prescribed pills, which were a nightmare to
administer. Then, after complaining, she was prescribed liquid, which
was easier but still horrible, she hated it. I complained AGAIN, and
finally she got *transdermal* Prozac, which is a god-send! I love it,
and she doesn't mind it too much. She's prescribed .1ml/day, which is
about 1/2 a pea-size amount that I rub into the non-hairy part of her
ear, while wearing a finger-condom the pharmacy provides. I've
experimented going .1/ml every other day, but she started to pee again.
I can't tell you how much this has changed my life- Aero (the cat) peed
so much, despite anything I did, I cried in frustration- I couldn't
figure out her reason for peeing. The transdermal Prozac is awesome- I
get it from a local compounding center- maybe you could ask your vet
about it?