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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / April 2004Maternal instinct
Hi, This seems to be the next chapter in the story of the foster cat, Victoria, whose litter was terminated during a spay operation. We also had a family of 4 kittens and mother in the dining room. Gradually, after she returned from the vet on Tuesday night, Victoria started to settle down. You're all correct, by the way-- she's much happier than she was before the operation -- she's more sociable and seems more contented and communicative. Two of the kittens were adopted yesterday, Sunday (to my intense relief -- 6 foster cats plus our 3 is a lot of cat presence!), but we now have a new problem: Victoria is very interested in the kittens. On Sunday morning, when one of them escaped and was trying to climb the stairs, she licked his head and then took him by the scruff and tried to drag him upstairs. I wasn't sure what was happening, and rescued the kitten. Last night, she was meowing for them, and when she had access to them she was all over them, sometimes trying to drag them away. I think that what is happening is that some residual maternal instinct resulting from the hormones that won't have totally gone from her pregnancy is causing this interest in the babies. If that's so, I shouldn't have to worry about it. The mother doesn't seem too concerned, but she was distracted last night in looking for the adopted ones. However, I didn't want to leave Victoria in the room with the kittens, just in case, and she spent a lot of the night sitting outside the door crying to them. Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this? How long might it go on? If it would be better for all 4 involved cats if Victoria were separated from the family, I would suggest it to the rescue group that we work with. Marion > Hi, .. > Does anyone have any ideas or experience with this? How long might it go > on? If it would be better for all 4 involved cats if Victoria were > separated from the family, I would suggest it to the rescue group that > we work with. > Marion No personal experience here, so take it for whatever you think it's worth. I have read that cats sometimes share kitten raising, and that may be what Victoria is trying to do. It probably does have something to do with hormones from the terminated pregnancy. I may be wrong, but as long as the mother cat doesn't mind, I'd let Victoria spend time with the kittens. It might be good for their socialization to interact with another cat and be less stressful for Victoria. A baby sitter would give mom cat a break. Victoria's hormones should fade in time. Annie In multiple cat settings where one or more females have a litter, it is a common behavior for the females, whether they are the mother or just a member of the colony, to share the duties of caring for the kittens. If the momcat doesn't mind and you can keep all the cats in one area (so Victoria doesn't move the kittens to where the mom can't find them) I'd go ahead and let the two adults raise these kittens together. Victoria will actually be helping take some of the burden of care off of the mom, she'll satisfy her maternal instincts, and the kittens will get double the love, so it's a win-win situation. Megan  Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray zuzu22@webtv.net dumped this in news:5441-4068610B-71@storefull- 3194.bay.webtv.net on 29 Mar 2004: > In multiple cat settings where one or more females have a litter, it is > a common behavior for the females, whether they are the mother or just a > member of the colony, to share the duties of caring for the kittens This brings up something new I have been wondering about, too. I was looking at a web page that had a .wav file of a kitten mewing. The reactions of my three were varied: Shadow had no interest at all. Shamrock looked around, came over to sniff the computer to see if there was a kitty there. But Bonnie was frantic! She came bolting from wherever in the house she was when I first played the wav file, then I played it a few more times to see if her reaction was consistent. It was. She was crying, and running around looking for kittens. It makes me wonder if she was older than I thought she was when I got her last year, and had possibly already had a litter. Or is this a typical reaction of a female? I've only had male cats until now. SignatureCheryl | But Bonnie was frantic! [...] is this a typical reaction of a female? Don't know, but I'm willing to try this wav file on Marie. Where can I get it? >| But Bonnie was frantic! [...] is this a typical reaction of a female? > > Don't know, but I'm willing to try this wav file on Marie. Where can I > get it? I was mistaken, it wasn't a wav file it was a movie file. :) http://www.geocities.com/turbo502002/films.html #4 did it for Bonnie. SignatureCheryl Oh, wow! Cheeky went nuts, I had to turn it off and open a can of food to make her stop searching for her babies. The shelter lady told me that she had two little gray tabby kittens that looked just like her, and she adopted and nursed another kitten whose mother had been killed. Now that she has finished eating she is searching again. She got right up on my desk (and never does that) and sniffed the speakers, crying the whole time. It was as though she thought her babies needed her and just dropped everything. Really cute. "Mary" <rosefan@email.com> dumped this in news:xf3ac.71$y7.36407 @twister.southeast.rr.com on 29 Mar 2004: > Oh, wow! Cheeky went nuts, I was really surprised by Bonnie's reaction. If she had kittens, or was even a babysitter, she was probably very attentive. Right from the beginning she has been more interested in my cats than me. I'm so glad Shamrock is also cat-friendly and gave her someone to bond with in the early days. :) It's still hard for me to think she has ever been a mom because she was so small when I trapped her. SignatureCheryl > "Mary" <rosefan@email.com> dumped this in news:xf3ac.71$y7.36407 > @twister.southeast.rr.com on 29 Mar 2004: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I was really surprised by Bonnie's reaction. If she had kittens, or was > even a babysitter, she was probably very attentive. Cheryl, I bet she has been a mother. As far as being small, Cheeks was less than 6 pounds when she gave birth, the shelter lady said, and not a year old. She tops out at 7.5 pounds if I have been pushing the canned food on her. (She might have been 8 pounds one time.)As I said to Arjun Ray, our Buddha never gave birth and was pretty much unmoved by the sounds of the kittens. But Cheeks was full of Mama angst. She climbed under the armoire, went behind the computer, etc. Finally I sat her on my lap and played the other ones, of the babies feeding, and touched the screen with my finger and her paw, then played the baby crying again and did the same. She calmed down some as though she understands that it is not her babies needing her, but still became agitated as the cries continued. It seemed to really distress her, I suppose it is the instinct to go to their aid. The shelter lady said that she was a wonderful mom with a generous heart. (Needless to say, the shelter lady is verrrry good at placing cats!) "Mary" <rosefan@email.com> dumped this in news:sv4ac.83$y7.47678 @twister.southeast.rr.com on 29 Mar 2004: > Cheryl, I bet she has been a mother. As far as being small, Cheeks > was less than 6 pounds when she gave birth, the shelter lady said, > and not a year old. I figured Bonnie to be ~4-6 months based on her size, her kitten-like face shape with big eyes, and the fact that I hadn't seen her around for long before I trapped her. When I started seeing her out there eating, it was still very cold out and I tried to see each cat that was eating so I knew what was up. I used to call her Baby Shadow because she was all black and looked like Shadow, only much smaller. She always showed up before the big males and I soon found out it was because they would chase her off. Once I switched the feeding place to the backyard, it was harder to see who was out there, but safer for them. She just really seemed like a cat about no more than 6 months old when I got her. She did have swollen nipples (or so I thought from what I could see after her spay surgery) but at that time it was hard to get a good look at her (she wanted to kill me). I thought worse-case-scenerio she was preg. but for the first time, and I never asked at the clinic, and they don't tell. SignatureCheryl | http://www.geocities.com/turbo502002/films.html | #4 did it for Bonnie. Marie didn't go nuts. She sniffed the speakers thoroughly, but she wasn't agitated. AAMOF (and I sort of expected this), the most curious and excited one was Lucas. He likes cats - you should see him trying to make friends with recovering ferals - and absolutely adores kittens (as Katrina and Calvin would attest if they could.) "Arjun Ray" <aray@nmds.com.invalid> wrote> > Marie didn't go nuts. Has Marie had babies? | "Arjun Ray" <aray@nmds.com.invalid> wrote> | |> Marie didn't go nuts. | | Has Marie had babies? No. She was spayed at 5-6 months of age. Pictures of her at http://www.picturetrail.com/aray/ Various albums: "Ferals" (as Lilac), "Friends", "Odd Lots" and "The Big Screen Kitty TV". I haven't got around to making an album for her now that she's mine. (She came as a potentially long term guest while her guardian is abroad, but she has integrated so thoroughly that she's staying.) > | "Arjun Ray" <aray@nmds.com.invalid> wrote> > | [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Various albums: "Ferals" (as Lilac), She is the one in the back, right? Gorgeous. By the way, our Buddha has not had babies (feral we thought was a boy, big surprise first vet visit!) and she kind of looked around but was not upset. Cheeks is STILL looking for the kittens, though she is not crying now. |> http://www.picturetrail.com/aray/ |> |> Various albums: "Ferals" (as Lilac), | | She is the one in the back, right? Gorgeous. Yes. The pictures were taken a few days after we finally caught Violet (who was renamed Amelie.) We had trapped Marie/Lilac the week before. Since Marie had showed signs of being friendly, my friend Meredith elected to socialize them both, even though they were well past the normal age for that. They were adopted out as a pair. Unfortunately, Violet/Amelie escaped one day and was never seen again. | By the way, our Buddha has not had babies (feral we thought was a boy, | big surprise first vet visit!) and she kind of looked around but was | not upset. We all thought Lucas was a girl (albeit large) until he was caught (see the early pictures in his album - he's quite pretty.) He was quite put out when I finally found a home for my foster kittens after 3 months; for days he went sniffing around and calling for them. About three months later, I boarded the fosters for a few days. I treated this as a normal introduction situation - I had them in the big playpen, fully covered. But it was instant recognition with Lucas and them. In a couple of hours they were crying to be let out. They made such a racket that I relented, with some trepidation, of course. I had nothing to worry about - they knew exactly where they were and they promptly made themselves at home (see the picture of Katrina sleeping on the cat tree in the "Odd Lots" album - it was taken that evening.) Lucas was very happy. | I was mistaken, it wasn't a wav file it was a movie file. :) | http://www.geocities.com/turbo502002/films.html | #4 did it for Bonnie. BTW, this person's technique leaves a lot to be desired. You don't put kittens on their backs while feeding them (even upright is dubious). In one of the clips, the kitten was giving the signals of how it wanted to be (on its tummy, arms outstretched - watch those claws!) but they were ignored. > BTW, this person's technique leaves a lot to be desired. You don't > put kittens on their backs while feeding them (even upright is > dubious). In one of the clips, the kitten was giving the signals of > how it wanted to be (on its tummy, arms outstretched - watch those > claws!) but they were ignored. I have never bottle-fed kittens but that was my first thought, too. I thought maybe it was the angle of the shot, but if you say the arms outstretched were a sign, then my first thoughts were right. SignatureCheryl | I have never bottle-fed kittens but that was my first thought, too. There's plenty of good web pages on it. | I thought maybe it was the angle of the shot, but if you say the | arms outstretched were a sign, then my first thoughts were right. The arms were outstretched because the kitten was reaching for the mother. Generally, they grab on and knead. Being basically suspended (if not upended) in midair is very unnatural for them. (As for your comment about a curved nipple, I've never seen something like that. What I've seen is a curved bottle - sort of pouchy and banana-shaped - for human babies. A smaller model would do the trick nicely. Though, the kitten cocking its head back a bit wouldn't be unnatural.) > In > one of the clips, the kitten was giving the signals of how it wanted to > be (on its tummy, arms outstretched - watch those claws!) but they were > ignored. Watching that clip again, it would seem to me that kitten-baby bottles should have a curved nipple to have the baby on its tummy and still allow the flow of milk. SignatureCheryl > BTW, this person's technique leaves a lot to be desired. You don't put > kittens on their backs while feeding them (even upright is dubious). Feeding while turned over on their backs is a sure fire way to cause the milk to be aspirated into the lungs. Pneumonia and/or respiratory infection can follow quite quickly doing feedings like this. > In one of the clips, the kitten was giving the signals of how it wanted to > be (on its tummy, arms outstretched - watch those claws!) but they were > ignored. I've fostered several types of wild mammals and kittens too. The outstretched arms is almost a universal sign of distress. > I was mistaken, it wasn't a wav file it was a movie file. :) > http://www.geocities.com/turbo502002/films.html > #4 did it for Bonnie. I have four adult females, all spayed, though my older cat is the mother of my younger... She's on my lap, and all she did was pick up her head and prick her ears for a few seconds. Hmmm. I shouldn't be surprised. She's not terribly social with the other foster cats I've had. My mom's cat Ashes carries around folded socks. Collects them, actually. Pulls them out of the laundry basket and stashes them in a little pile to make a "nest." circa Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:11:29 -0600, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cheryl (jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com) said, > I was mistaken, it wasn't a wav file it was a movie file. :) > http://www.geocities.com/turbo502002/films.html > #4 did it for Bonnie. OMG, that kitten is SO CUTE! With that said, I cranked the volume and the only one of my three who even expressed notice was Jacob. Oscar isn't in the room, but apparently doesn't feel the need to figure out what was crying in here, and Camille just figured I wanted to pet her and strolled over. They have, in the past, reacted to recordings of other cats, though. Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. circa Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:11:29 -0600, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cheryl (jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com) said, > I was mistaken, it wasn't a wav file it was a movie file. :) > http://www.geocities.com/turbo502002/films.html > #4 did it for Bonnie. A couple of these got my cats' interest, but that's probably due to the fact that they sound remarkably like my now-departed Alex. http://home.att.net/~kittycatfurballssounds2/Bobcat.wav http://home.att.net/~kittycatfurballssounds2/wildcat.WAV (this one brought Jacob in from the other room, and if it had a little screaming thrown in, would pretty well typify Alex at the veterinarians' office.) http://home.att.net/~kittycatfurballssounds2/cougscrm.WAV How could anybody help but love a housekitty with a voice like that? :-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > http://home.att.net/~kittycatfurballssounds2/Bobcat.wav > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://home.att.net/~kittycatfurballssounds2/cougscrm.WAV LOL None of mine responded to any of those sounds. Alex sounded like that? Yikes. The wildcat wav is probably what Shadow thinks he sounds like if he had a voice. I can picture him being that mad. Poor guy. If he only had a voice, he might get some respect outta Bonnie and Shamrock. SignatureCheryl circa Tue, 06 Apr 2004 20:57:45 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cheryl (jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com) said, > > http://home.att.net/~kittycatfurballssounds2/Bobcat.wav > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > LOL None of mine responded to any of those sounds. Alex sounded like that? Oh, definitely. That's why other people at the veterinarians' offices would always eyeball his carrier and ask, "what do you HAVE in there?" Alex definitely had a voice to match his personality and his size. <G> > Yikes. The wildcat wav is probably what Shadow thinks he sounds like if he > had a voice. I can picture him being that mad. Poor guy. If he only had a > voice, he might get some respect outta Bonnie and Shamrock. Maybe you could get him a spiked collar and some leather booties so he looks tougher. ;-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. >| But Bonnie was frantic! [...] is this a typical reaction of a female? > >Don't know, but I'm willing to try this wav file on Marie. Where can I >get it? A couple of years ago, Art Bell recorded a cat screaming as in a big fight. My cat was on the enclosed patio when she heard it and she frantically ran inside and all over the house trying to find the cat. a long time ago, we had two female cats that gave birth close together. Mary, the mother of Lady (the other cat) was a good mother. Lady didn't much care for her kittens. Mary would literally force Lady back in the box to take care of her kittens. > This brings up something new I have been wondering about, too. I was > looking at a web page that had a .wav file of a kitten mewing. The [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -- > Cheryl Interestingly enough, when I made frantic mewing sounds and my brother's cat (named Shiro, male) would come up to me as though he were trying to protect me. He would urgently walk back and forth around me and start meowing, too. My Kitty (female), however, does nothing. Her ears might perk up for a couple of seconds, but then she just ignores me. She was a stray and there was no mention of whether she had had litters or not, but she was close to 2 years old when I got her so I think she probably had. Shiro owned my brother since kittenhood and had never really been around other cats or kittens. I always their reactions should have been reversed. rona -- "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and they will piss upon your computer." --Bruce Graham > Interestingly enough, when I made frantic mewing sounds and my > brother's cat (named Shiro, male) would come up to me as though he > were trying to protect me. Good kitty! How cute. :) He would urgently walk back and forth > around me and start meowing, too. My Kitty (female), however, does > nothing. Her ears might perk up for a couple of seconds, but then she > just ignores me. Ah, but she's probably trying to make you stop embarrassing yourself. LOL I can just picture her saying "silly human". ;) She was a stray and there was no mention of whether > she had had litters or not, but she was close to 2 years old when I > got her so I think she probably had. Shiro owned my brother since > kittenhood and had never really been around other cats or kittens. I > always their reactions should have been reversed. That is very interesting. Cats are so mysterious and I guess we'll never figure them out. SignatureCheryl > Ah, but she's probably trying to make you stop embarrassing yourself. > LOL I can just picture her saying "silly human". ;) More like, "What the f*&( is she doing, now?" :-) > That is very interesting. Cats are so mysterious and I guess we'll never > figure them out. Cats fascinate me even more than babies do (though I much prefer living with cats). rona -- "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and they will piss upon your computer." --Bruce Graham Absolutely. My spayed-at-six-months Callie was doing exactly the same to a litter of kittens that my irresponsible neighbor (at our former place) had. But her irresponsibility aside, the kittens were very cute and when they were all out in the yard together, Callie would very aggressively fuss and carry around the kittens even though she was only 10 months old herself. She loved them. And their Mom knew her and didn't have a problem with it. I would only seperate if the Mom cat starts to show any agitation about it. my sister adopted one of my foster cats.. I had the cat since she was just a few weeks old. She was spayed long before she went into heat (at about 10 weeks of age).. Georgia would carry around one of my nephews beanie babies.. it became her baby.. she didn't necessarily have kittens to have maternal instincts. > my sister adopted one of my foster cats.. I had the cat since she was just a > few weeks old. She was spayed long before she went into heat (at about 10 > weeks of age).. Georgia would carry around one of my nephews beanie babies.. > it became her baby.. > > she didn't necessarily have kittens to have maternal instincts. My cat Bartleby (male) used to carry around this stuffed ghost. It was a Halloween decoration I had gotten, but he stole it and made it his child. He would carry it around, hide it somewhere, and then it would reappear. We used to see him clean it when it got dirty, eeeeew. When we moved, my husband threw it away becuase it got kinda gross. I've gotten him other stuffed toys, but he hasn't attached to anything else like that. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net Check out www.snittens.com > > my sister adopted one of my foster cats.. I had the cat since she was just > a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > husband threw it away becuase it got kinda gross. I've gotten him other > stuffed toys, but he hasn't attached to anything else like that. Hodge has a stuffed snowman that he is incredibly attached to, moreso than other similar toys. Don't know why. Signaturehttp://www.mindspring.com/~slywy/ http://slywy.diaryland.com/ "KellyH" <Kelly@whatever.com> wrote When we moved, my > husband threw it away becuase it got kinda gross. I've gotten him other > stuffed toys, but he hasn't attached to anything else like that. Ohh, man. Poor Bartleby! Your husband threw away his magic thing. > Hi, > This seems to be the next chapter in the story of the foster [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > we work with. > Marion I'd just keep an eye on her. Probably all will be well. Isabelle wanted to mother the litter we were bottle feeding last fall (Boots' litter). We had to discourage it until the kittens tested negative but then let her at 'em. She and Boots still groom each other. W Thanks again for all of your ideas and advice! I think that this is going to be alright -- the mother, Rebecca, actually seems relieved to have some freedom, and has been wandering off without a thought for her kittens. Victoria, on the other hand, does all the elaborate fussing that you spoke of, chirruping constantly; she reminds me of a kindergarten teacher in the schoolyard. My husband commented that she seemed to be staggering out the room towards the stairs last night, so I ran up to see what was happening. She had apparently dragged one of the kittens up to the second floor with the intention of hiding it in one of the bedroom closets. Evidently the kitten had other ideas (they're 8 weeks old, so they have minds of their own) because I arrived in time to see him streaking out of the bedroom as Victoria looked forlornly from the cupboard. The fur on the back of the kitten's neck was wet, so that told the story. Marion |
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