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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / March 2006Update on Caring for 11 year old cat - he's too fat!
Well, thanks to everyone for the advice. We just got back from the vet. Bubble needs to have his teeth cleaned and also needs to diet. He weighs 16+ pounds and should only weigh 12-13. The vet said I should cut his food back so he slims down slowly. Senior panel results will be back tomorrow He last owners fed his deli cat which strikes me as being, well, crap. So, I'll try him on some better quality food while he works on trimming his figure. I'd appreciate any advice from anyone who has helped their kitty get down in size. > Well, thanks to everyone for the advice. We just got back from the > vet. Bubble needs to have his teeth cleaned and also needs to diet. He [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > trimming his figure. I'd appreciate any advice from anyone who has > helped their kitty get down in size. I have posted this before, but it really worked so here goes. My petite female shorthair tuxedo cat weighed 18 lbs and should have weighed 8 according to the vet. At 10 year old she had thyroid trouble and a heart problem. The weird thing is, her thyroid was overactive, so she should have been skinny, BUT the vet says they do see this every now and then. He told me to reduce her food by 1/4, and when she stopped losing weight to do it again. However, because what I read convinced me that canned food was better for her, I switched her from being free fed dry to getting premium canned food in equal portions 12 hours apart. She began to lose immediatedlly. When she stopped, I reduced the portion by 1/4. She continued to lose until she was 8-9 lbs. She now has her kitty figure back and is happy and shiny. I feed Fancy Feast, the varieties that have real meat as a first ingredient (as opposed to byproducts), and this is not the best but pretty good quality. Good luck to Bubble! And good luck to you if he is as aggressive about being fed as my Boo is! > > Well, thanks to everyone for the advice. We just got back from the > > vet. Bubble needs to have his teeth cleaned and also needs to diet. He > > weighs 16+ pounds and should only weigh 12-13. The vet said I should > > cut his food back so he slims down slowly. Senior panel results will > > be back tomorrow Hi, I brought my Tucker down 6 lbs (slowly, of course) over a period of nine months. Check out his web page for more information: http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/ Feel free to email me directly for details. Rene > > > Well, thanks to everyone for the advice. We just got back from the > > > vet. Bubble needs to have his teeth cleaned and also needs to diet. He [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Feel free to email me directly for details. Why not post them here and help everyone with your magic formula? > Why not post them here and help everyone with your magic formula? you talkin bout weight loss? make food avail the same way you do for yourself then the cats personality will meter the intake some cats are fat cats and are better off fat just like women, some women look wonderful fat I like voluptuous women... in the Georgian days it was very vogue to be fat im no different milk and honey baby, fat is in! we eat the food and drank the wine everybody havin a real good time cept you, you were talkin bout the end of the world > > Why not post them here and help everyone with your magic formula? > > you talkin bout weight loss? Actually, I was wondering why Rene asked the OP to email her instead of sharing her formula for kitty weight loss with the group. I find that strange. Why not post it? Why insist on personal contact? This is the kind of thing Megan did all the time that I did not understand. If I have some helpful information I am happy to share it here. > we eat the food and drank the wine everybody havin a real good time > cept you, > you were talkin bout the end of the world What's this from? :) "cybercat" <boagrrl@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > we eat the food and drank the wine everybody havin a real good time > > cept you, > > you were talkin bout the end of the world > > What's this from? :) i'ts a U2 song called -The End of The World > "cybercat" <boagrrl@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > i'ts a U2 song called -The End of The World Hmm ... Either I missed that one or I missed this lyric. Actually, there isn't a magic formula--just counting calories and using common sense, like you would for yourself. It's easier to read the pages and look at the photos, as there is too much information to post here. If anyone has specific questions, like I said, you may email me. > Actually, there isn't a magic formula--just counting calories and using > common sense, like you would for yourself. It's easier to read the > pages and look at the photos, as there is too much information to post > here. If anyone has specific questions, like I said, you may email me. Ah, so there is a web site. Perhaps you will post the link. I am very interested, as I bet lots of people with overweight cats must be. >> > Well, thanks to everyone for the advice. We just got back from the >> > vet. Bubble needs to have his teeth cleaned and also needs to diet. He [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Rene Good job! I have looked at your web page on other occasions, and I looked at it again yesterday. You really "did it right." The gradual weight-reduction was right on-target. MaryL >Hi, I brought my Tucker down 6 lbs (slowly, of course) over a period of >nine months. Check out his web page for more information: >http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/ That webpage was helpful, thanks. It shows that it can be done! I'm going to try to find some canned food that Bubble will eat then go for twice daily feedings. The vet emphasized that the weight loss should be slow, and also suggested I bring him in for a monthly weigh in with a vet tech. I also heard back from the vet. She said he's in pretty good health, the blood and urine tests all came back within normal range. Definitely healthy enough to go under for dental care next week. So, looks like my new buddy will be around for a long time. > >Hi, I brought my Tucker down 6 lbs (slowly, of course) over a period of > >nine months. Check out his web page for more information: > >http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/ Oh, so you did post the web page. Well, I still don't get the "email me" part, but whatever. >That webpage was helpful, thanks. It shows that it can be done! I'm >going to try to find some canned food that Bubble will eat then go for [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Definitely healthy enough to go under for dental care next week. So, >looks like my new buddy will be around for a long time. Just remember, it doesn't matter if it's dry or wet food, what matters is the amount of calories the pet ingests per day. Anna > >That webpage was helpful, thanks. It shows that it can be done! I'm > >going to try to find some canned food that Bubble will eat then go for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Just remember, it doesn't matter if it's dry or wet food, what matters is the > amount of calories the pet ingests per day. However, if she does switch to canned food, she will see an immediate improvement in her cat's general health. Shinier coat, more energy, brighter eyes, etc. >Hi, I brought my Tucker down 6 lbs (slowly, of course) over a period of >nine months. Check out his web page for more information: >http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/ 3/4 cup of Hill's r/d = 198 calories 3/4 cup of Hill's m/d = 360 calories 1 5.5 can of Wellness = anywhere from 167 calories to 181 calories, depending on the flavor You were giving your cat one can of Wellness per day; therefore, the lower amount of calories is what caused his weight loss, not the fact that it was canned food. I know of many cats who lost weight eating dry. Anna > >Hi, I brought my Tucker down 6 lbs (slowly, of course) over a period of > >nine months. Check out his web page for more information: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > amount of calories is what caused his weight loss, not the fact that it was > canned food. I know of many cats who lost weight eating dry. But it is not as good for them as canned. This may be true, however, I don't doubt that those cats were miserable. With the calories you listed, the cat would only be allowed a tiny of amount of dry food per day. My Tucker experienced this with the r/d. He was only allowed 3/4 c. per day and was constantly hungry and begging for food. When I switched to the canned, he had more volume of food and was satiated, in stark contrast to the dry diet. I also did NOT start out giving him one can per day. I gave him 1 1/2 cans per day, as too drastic of a reduction in calories would have been unsafe for him (he would have lost weight too quickly). I slowly cut back the amount of canned as he lost weight, eventually holding steady at one can when he reached the desired weight. Not only is dry food undesirable for the reasons I just stated, it is also a totally inappropriate diet for a carnivore. It's unfortunate that you have not educated yourself in cat nutrition and insist on feeding a bowl of what amounts to cereal to your cats. This group offers lots of opportunities for learning and it would be in your cat's best interest for you to avail yourself of those opportunities and do what's right for your cat, rather than passing along outdated (and sometimes incorrect) information. You can begin your education here: www.catinfo.org www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.html www.catnutrition.org >Not only is dry food undesirable for the reasons I just stated, it is >also a totally inappropriate diet for a carnivore. It's unfortunate [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.html >www.catnutrition.org Excuse me, I have educated myself very much on cat nutrition but I prefer to listen to a person who actually went to university and studied animal nutrition rather than someone on a forum on the internet. You can begin your education here: http://www.petdiets.com/ Click on the cat and dog logo on the bottom and then click on more about the founder Dr. Rebeccah Remillard. Tell me, what are your qualifications??? By the way, dry food has MEAT in it; it is not cereal. You want to explain all the 20 something cats that have eaten nothing but dry food their whole life? Anna > >Not only is dry food undesirable for the reasons I just stated, it is > >also a totally inappropriate diet for a carnivore. It's unfortunate [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > all the 20 something cats that have eaten nothing but dry food their whole > life? Wow. We have a new halfwit. >> >Not only is dry food undesirable for the reasons I just stated, it is >> >also a totally inappropriate diet for a carnivore. It's unfortunate [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Wow. We have a new halfwit. So you don't know any 20 something year old cats that have eaten dry food their whole lives? I've known plenty. As for the halfwit remark, what makes you any more of an expert on felines than anyone else in this group? Anna > >> >Not only is dry food undesirable for the reasons I just stated, it is > >> >also a totally inappropriate diet for a carnivore. It's unfortunate [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > their whole lives? I've known plenty. As for the halfwit remark, what makes > you any more of an expert on felines than anyone else in this group? I rarely argue with idiots. It is like shooting fish in a barrel. One word for you: research. >I rarely argue with idiots. It is like shooting fish in a barrel. One >word for you: research. As I stated, I think I will believe Dr. Romillard, a Clinical Nutritionist with a B.S. and M.S. in Animal Science and a Ph.D. in Animal Nutrition over a big mouthed know-it-all on the internet who has absolutely no credentials. Anna > >I rarely argue with idiots. It is like shooting fish in a barrel. One > >word for you: research. > > As I stated, I think I will believe Dr. Romillard, a Clinical Nutritionist > with a B.S. and M.S. in Animal Science and a Ph.D. in Animal Nutrition over a > big mouthed know-it-all on the internet who has absolutely no credentials. How would you know if I do or don't have credentials? Anyway, here is a free clue, dimwit: don't take ANY single person's word for it. Do some research. Get input from lots of sources and then work that little pinhead a little. Your welcome. > >> >Not only is dry food undesirable for the reasons I just stated, it is > >> >also a totally inappropriate diet for a carnivore. It's unfortunate [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > So you don't know any 20 something year old cats that have eaten dry food > their whole lives? I've known plenty. Sure I know of many cats that ate dry food all their lives. They also had a higher incidence of urolithiasis & urinary tract obstructions, feline interstitial cystitis, IBD, and diabetes than cats fed canned food. > >Not only is dry food undesirable for the reasons I just stated, it is > >also a totally inappropriate diet for a carnivore. It's unfortunate [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Excuse me, I have educated myself very much on cat nutrition If you think so, you have a *lot* to learn. I feel the opposite- the more I learn about feline nutrition the more I realize I don't know enough- and I've been studying feline nutrition for many years. but I prefer to > listen to a person who actually went to university and studied animal > nutrition rather than someone on a forum on the internet. You can begin your > education here: > > http://www.petdiets.com/ ....and you might want to try here: http://home.earthlink.net/~jacm2/id1.html She's a DVM, PhD, Diplomate, ACVIM- will that suffice? Then here: http://rocquoone.com/diabetes_and_obesity.htm When you finished with those, you might be ready for these: http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm#References > Click on the cat and dog logo on the bottom and then click on more about the > founder Dr. Rebeccah Remillard. Tell me, what are your qualifications??? What are yours? The web? If you did, you wouldn't feel so strongly about dry food. If you've been reading the veterinary literature, you would see the current swing to canned food. Many vets are beginning to realize that if canned foods are being used to effectively manage several diseases, it might also help prevent a few- urolithiasis, urinary tract obstruction, interstitial cystitis, diabetes, and IBD- to name a few. > By the way, dry food has MEAT in it; it is not cereal. That's not entirely accurate. Most dry foods *are* predominately cereal. Even though some dry foods list meat as the first ingredient, the combined weight of all the plant material usually significantly outweighs the meat. Thus, it would be fairly accurate to say dry foods are usually predominately cereal. Its gotta be- it needs all that sugar-paste to hold the powder together! Also, cats fed dry food have a lower total water intake and higher USG than cats fed canned food- even through cats fed dry food drink ~6 times more water. The lower water intake and higher USG predisposes them to urolithiasis and cyrstalluria. That's why the first line of defense and treatment for cats with LUTD, FIC, IBD, CRF, diabetes is canned food. Dry food also exacerbates or unmasks feline interstitial cystitis in cats that are predisposed to it. There's actually a controlled clinical study published in a peer-reviewed veterinary medical journal that supports that statement. Other than feeding Hill's m/d and Purina DM dry diets, many diabetic cats have been weaned off insulin- or their insulin requirement was dramatically reduced by simply switching them to canned food. Dry food can push a subclinical diabetic cat into clinical disease. As vets are becoming more educated about feline nutrition and feline physiology, more and more are recommending canned food. Don't forget, just a few years ago, cats were treated as small dogs and dog and cat foods were the same product- only the bags were labeled differently. Be careful what you read, a lot of literature on feline nutrition is outdated or based on outdated notions. > This may be true, however, I don't doubt that those cats were > miserable. With the calories you listed, the cat would only be allowed [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > amount of canned as he lost weight, eventually holding steady at one > can when he reached the desired weight. This is exactly what I did. And, like you, I saw immediate benefits in my cat's coat, eyes, energy level. Anna thinks dry food is made mostly of meat. *shaking my head* Cats can subsist on dry, but they thrive on quality canned food because of the increased whole protein, moisture, and palatability. I fed my first cat all dry, she did okay. I switched my current cats to canned and they are doing really wonderfully. >This is exactly what I did. And, like you, I saw immediate benefits in my >cat's coat, eyes, energy level. Anna thinks dry food is made mostly of meat. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >cat all dry, she did okay. I switched my current cats to canned and they >are doing really wonderfully. Please tell me why my 14 year old cat is so healthy then; she has eaten dry Science Diet her whole life; just had a blood and urine test done which was perfect. She has a beautiful shiny coat, clear eyes, is playful, etc. Enlighten me of great one. Anna > > This may be true, however, I don't doubt that those cats were > > miserable. With the calories you listed, the cat would only be allowed [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > cat all dry, she did okay. I switched my current cats to canned and they > are doing really wonderfully. Right on, cybercat! I immediately saw a difference after switching to canned as well. Another huge benefit is that they will have an increased water intake, which is very important for their urinary health. If you look at the ingredient list on dry foods, you'll usually see ingredients like "by-product" or "meal" as the first few items. Not to mention they add fillers like corn. If anyone wants to read an enlightening book on the pet food industry, read "Foods Pets Die For." >8 according to the vet. At 10 year old she had thyroid trouble and a heart >problem. The weird thing is, her thyroid was overactive, so she should have >been skinny, BUT the vet says they do see this every now and then. I'm really interested in hearing more about this. Were there any symptoms of her thyroid being overactive? The reason I'm asking is because one of my cats is about 14 lbs (14 yrs old) and I haven't bothered to have her thyroid checked, just blood, because I always thought she would be skinny if she had an overactive thyroid. Now I'm thinking maybe I should get it done when she goes this year. Anna > Well, thanks to everyone for the advice. We just got back from the > vet. Bubble needs to have his teeth cleaned and also needs to diet. He [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > trimming his figure. I'd appreciate any advice from anyone who has > helped their kitty get down in size. When I got Jay Jay, he was 12 1/2 pounds. Former stray, not used to free feeding. Also appears to be younger than estimated and not fully grown. So, part of his growth was natural, and part of it was too much food available. He went up to 19 lbs before coming back down to 16.4 which is about right for him. He may still be growing - not sure. Anyway, what helped Jay Jay lose weight (and still be happy), was switching food. I bought it because it was intended for larger breeds (Royal Canin Maine Coon), but one of the features is larger kibbles. And Jay Jay went from inhaling food in a flash to sitting down and chewing it. So, for the same amount of time invested in eating, he was consuming less food. I would look for a brand and quality food that you are happy with that comes in larger kibbles. Also, with my dog, who must maintain a healthy weight ) to keep her oversized heart from pushing harder on her windpipe), I add green beans to her kibble. It's a way to add something low calorie and non-fat to her meager meal. Without it, she finshes very quickly, and isn't satisfied. The main thing is to make the meals last so the feels satisfied without eating as much. > Well, thanks to everyone for the advice. We just got back from the > vet. Bubble needs to have his teeth cleaned and also needs to diet. He [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > trimming his figure. I'd appreciate any advice from anyone who has > helped their kitty get down in size. Losing 3-4 pounds shouldn't be too difficult- just make sure he loses weight slowly and gradually- no more than 1 lb/4 wks. A good starting point is a 25% reduction in caloric intake and switching to feeding a meat-based canned food twice a day. Don't restrict caloric intake by more than 25% if you're feeding a commercial diet. Remember, when calories are reduced by >25%, *all* of the nutrients are reduced by 25% as well. He needs fewer calories; he doesn't need less essential nutrients. Most commercial diets contain an excess of nutrients- as a safety margin. So, a moderate caloric reduction of 25% shouldn't exceed the safety margin of good quality foods. About the best investment you can make in your cats' healthcare program is a good pediatric scale. I highly recommend the Tanita 1583- or if your finances permit, the Tanita BLB-12. Small losses (and gains) are difficult to notice in a cat you see all day every day- especially in long-hair cats. Not only will a scale help you monitor the efficacy of the weight loss program and make adjustments accordingly, it will also help you keep the faith even though your eyes may not see much progress at the beginning. Weight loss in cats can be frustrating- a good scale will help alleviate some of it! ;) Be sure to discuss your cat's weight loss plan with your vet. Good luck, Phil |
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