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I wonder how Lyn would handle this!

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Nomen Nescio - 16 Mar 2006 09:30 GMT
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My guess is that Lyn would abandon her kid and run like HELL.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EUREKA SPRINGS, N.C. - A pregnant mother shot and killed a suspected
intruder in her home Tuesday afternoon, authorities said. Crystal
Strickland, 23, who has two young children, was lying on her couch in
Cumberland County when she heard a noise and saw a man looking through her
window, authorities said. When he began trying to force his way in, she told
him she had a gun, and he told her that he also was armed, authorities said.

When the man broke into the home, he and Strickland exchanged gunfire,
authorities said. The man later died from his wound, authorities said.
The man's identity hasn't been released.

Strickland was uninjured.

The incident remains under investigation, but authorities said Strickland's
gun was legally registered.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now THAT'S my kind of woman.......Guts and good aim!
-L. - 16 Mar 2006 09:58 GMT
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>
> My guess is that Lyn would abandon her kid and run like HELL.

Nice to know I own you, Micro-Penis Man.
-L.
Nomen Nescio - 16 Mar 2006 19:30 GMT
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From: "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com>

>Nice to know I own you, Micro-Penis Man.
>-L.

So how would you handle it, coward?

Lyn, you are a seriously delusional twat.
You own nothing that you wouldn't be willing
to fight for......which means you own NOTHING.
Not your home, your son, or your own life.
Everything you hold dear is free for the taking
by anyone who wants it. I, and millions of others,
own YOU. You only live because nobody has
come to collect. If anyone ever does, you're
done. If anyone ever wants to collect the $10k -
20k that your son would be worth on the open
market.....don't forget to tell them that they have
a "Micro-Penis" as they walk out the door with
little Johnny and while THEY decide if you should
be allowed to live.
You're nothing but a yapping little dog that pees
itself and runs at the first sign of danger.......by your
own admission.
"I pride myself in
thinking I'd fight for justice when in reality, when I was faced with a
situation that could have been a major case, I just didn't have any
fight left in me."
Those are your words! Are they not?

A handful of Prozac is no substitute for courage, Chubbs.

"Where the choice is set between cowardice and violence,
I would advise violence.  ...I would a thousand times
prefer violence than the emasculation of a whole race.  
I prefer the use of arms in defense of honor rather than
remain the vile witness of dishonor." -- Gandhi
Miami Jones - 16 Mar 2006 19:33 GMT
such a fostered flame
reads like a strained cough

there's no feeling in this Nomen, im just not feeling it!

let's do it again from the top

*i can't take much more of this*

PROJECT PEOPLE PROJECT

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[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> =HKi5
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cybercat - 17 Mar 2006 03:53 GMT
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>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> You own nothing that you wouldn't be willing
> to fight for......which means you own NOTHING.

Excuse me, but did you mean to say that Lyn owns
nothing that she would be willing to fight for?

I hope you have mastered the operation of your
firearm better than you have mastered the English
Language, beer breath.
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 16 Mar 2006 21:31 GMT
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >
> > My guess is that Lyn would abandon her kid and run like HELL.
>
> Nice to know I own you, Micro-Penis Man.
> -L.

Offhand, I think this is an ad hominen argument - in fact, hard to make
it more ad hominem. But that aside, it reminds me of Napoleon's penis
and the priest who took possession of it. The size was also discussed.
I am not sure if that was the reason for Josephine, his wife, enjoying
the comeraderie of the garrison in the biblical sense of getting to
know the soldiers, intimately.

In any event, I cannot find the original article. Is it too new? I find
nothing under Crystal Strickland and Eureka Springs so far in Google.
Maybe it was just published today? Is this really true? Some parts
don't ring true which is why I would like to see the article in its
original format. It's not the troll I am interested in but determining
if the mistakes I see are in the reporting or the account is an entire
trolling effort.
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 16 Mar 2006 21:41 GMT
> In any event, I cannot find the original article. Is it too new? I find
> nothing under Crystal Strickland and Eureka Springs so far in Google.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> if the mistakes I see are in the reporting or the account is an entire
> trolling effort.

http://www.fayettevillenc.com/article?id=228634

okay this is the full article and includes the picture of the deceased
gunman.

it does not show her picture. and it was published today.

i needed to look it up in news in google specifically.
-L. - 16 Mar 2006 21:55 GMT
> http://www.fayettevillenc.com/article?id=228634
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> i needed to look it up in news in google specifically.

She's stupid. Loaded gun in the house with two babies in the house,
too.  "They exchanged shots".  She's damn lucky she or her kids didn't
get killed.
-L.
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 17 Mar 2006 00:46 GMT
> She's stupid. Loaded gun in the house with two babies in the house,
> too.  "They exchanged shots".  She's damn lucky she or her kids didn't
> get killed.
> -L.

But what would be your plan B in this particular scenario?

If she called 9-1-1, would they have responded in time? I am not
familiar with that area. It's very uneven, 9-1-1. In fact, in some
areas around me, the local police go home and one has to depend on the
very thinly spread out state police in the night, possibly the
evenings. That would not be the case here because this happened during
the day?

It is also possible that he was not unknown so an unknown here which
would complicate matters. This is probably what is being investigated
right now. Does it matter? For the prosecutors, it might.

But again, what would you suggest?

But someone with a gun breaking down a door is quite scary and the
threat may not wait for a police response. I don't know so I am curious
as to what you think this woman, Crystal Strickland, should have done
otherwise.

Just asking. Not expecting any particular answer.
Nomen Nescio - 17 Mar 2006 01:10 GMT
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>From: "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com>

>She's stupid. Loaded gun in the house with two babies in the house,
>too.

How do you know the gun wasn't locked away, Chubbs.
I can retrieve my loaded gun from a steel, electronic lock,
safe in about 3 seconds.

>"They exchanged shots".  She's damn lucky she or her kids didn't
>get killed.

Well......That's the point, Einstein.

And I'll ask you a third time since you don't
seem capable of answering the question.......
How would you have handled it?
-L. - 17 Mar 2006 02:25 GMT
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>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> seem capable of answering the question.......
> How would you have handled it?

Why do you care what I think? To you I'm just another dumb, incompetent
female, good for nothing but being pregnant and barefoot in the
kitchen.

-L.
Thrasher Remailer - 17 Mar 2006 06:56 GMT
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RAGING AGAINST SELF DEFENSE: A PSYCHIATRIST EXAMINES THE ANTI-GUN
MENTALITY

           Friday, February 24, 2006

           By Sarah Thompson, M.D.

             "You don't need to have a gun; the police will protect you."

             "If people carry guns, there will be murders over parking
spaces and neighborhood basketball games."

             "I'm a pacifist. Enlightened, spiritually aware people
shouldn't own guns."

             "I'd rather be raped than have some redneck militia type try
to rescue me."
           How often have you heard these statements from misguided
advocates of victim disarmament, or even woefully uninformed relatives and
neighbors? Why do people cling so tightly to these beliefs, in the face of
incontrovertible evidence that they are wrong? Why do they get so furiously
angry when gun owners point out that their arguments are factually and
logically incorrect?

           How can you communicate with these people who seem to be out of
touch with reality and rational thought?

           One approach to help you deal with anti-gun people is to
understand their psychological processes. Once you understand why these
people behave so irrationally, you can communicate more effectively with
them.

           Defense Mechanisms

           Projection

           About a year ago I received an e-mail from a member of a local
Jewish organization. The author, who chose to remain anonymous, insisted
that people have no right to carry firearms because he didn't want to be
murdered if one of his neighbors had a "bad day". (I don't know that this
person is a "he", but I'm assuming so for the sake of simplicity.) I
responded by asking him why he thought his neighbors wanted to murder him,
and, of course, got no response. The truth is that he's statistically more
likely to be murdered by a neighbor who doesn't legally carry a firearm1 and
more likely to be shot accidentally by a law enforcement officer.1

           How does my correspondent "know" that his neighbors would murder
him if they had guns? He doesn't. What he was really saying was that if he
had a gun, he might murder his neighbors if he had a bad day, or if they
took his parking space, or played their stereos too loud. This is an example
of what mental health professionals call projection - unconsciously
projecting one's own unacceptable feelings onto other people, so that one
doesn't have to own them.3 In some cases, the intolerable feelings are
projected not onto a person, but onto an inanimate object, such as a gun,4
so that the projector believes the gun itself will murder him.

           Projection is a defense mechanism. Defense mechanisms are
unconscious psychological mechanisms that protect us from feelings that we
cannot consciously accept.5 They operate without our awareness, so that we
don't have to deal consciously with "forbidden" feelings and impulses. Thus,
if you asked my e-mail correspondent if he really wanted to murder his
neighbors, he would vehemently deny it, and insist that other people want to
kill him.

           Projection is a particularly insidious defense mechanism,
because it not only prevents a person from dealing with his own feelings, it
also creates a world where he perceives everyone else as directing his own
hostile feelings back at him.6

           All people have violent, and even homicidal, impulses. For
example, it's common to hear people say "I'd like to kill my boss", or "If
you do that one more time I'm going to kill you." They don't actually mean
that they're going to, or even would, kill anyone; they're simply
acknowledging anger and frustration. All of us suffer from fear and feelings
of helplessness and vulnerability. Most people can acknowledge feelings of
rage, fear, frustration, jealousy, etc. without having to act on them in
inappropriate and destructive ways.

           Some people, however, are unable consciously to admit that they
have such "unacceptable" emotions. They may have higher than average levels
of rage, frustration, or fear. Perhaps they fear that if they acknowledge
the hostile feelings, they will lose control and really will hurt someone.
They may believe that "good people" never have such feelings, when in fact
all people have them.

           This is especially true now that education "experts" commonly
prohibit children from expressing negative emotions or aggression. Instead
of learning that such emotions are normal, but that destructive behavior
needs to be controlled, children now learn that feelings of anger are evil,
dangerous and subject to severe punishment.7To protect themselves from
"being bad", they are forced to use defense mechanisms to avoid owning their
own normal emotions. Unfortunately, using such defense mechanisms
inappropriately can endanger their mental health; children need to learn how
to deal appropriately with reality, not how to avoid it.8

           (This discussion of psychological mechanisms applies to the
average person who is uninformed, or misinformed, about firearms and
self-defense. It does not apply to the anti- gun ideologue. Fanatics like
Charles Schumer know the facts about firearms, and advocate victim
disarmament consciously and willfully in order to gain political power. This
psychological analysis does not apply to them.)

           Denial

           Another defense mechanism commonly utilized by supporters of gun
control is denial. Denial is simply refusing to accept the reality of a
given situation.9 For example, consider a woman whose husband starts coming
home late, has strange perfume on his clothes, and starts charging flowers
and jewelry on his credit card. She may get extremely angry at a
well-meaning friend who suggests that her husband is having an affair. The
reality is obvious, but the wronged wife is so threatened by her husband's
infidelity that she is unable to accept it, and so denies its existence.

           Anti-gun people do the same thing. It's obvious that we live in
a dangerous society, where criminals attack innocent people. Just about
everyone has been, or knows someone who has been, victimized. It's equally
obvious that law enforcement can't protect everyone everywhere 24 hours a
day. Extensive scholarly research demonstrates that the police have no legal
duty to protect you10 and that firearm ownership is the most effective way
to protect yourself and your family.11 There is irrefutable evidence that
victim disarmament nearly always precedes genocide.12 Nonetheless, the
anti-gun folks insist, despite all evidence to the contrary, that "the
police will protect you", "this is a safe neighborhood" and "it can't happen
here", where "it" is everything from mugging to mass murder.

           Anti-gun people who refuse to accept the reality of the proven
and very serious dangers of civilian disarmament are using denial to protect
themselves from the anxiety of feeling helpless and vulnerable. Likewise,
gun owners who insist that "the government will never confiscate my guns"
are also using denial to protect themselves from the anxiety of
contemplating being forcibly disarmed and rendered helpless and vulnerable.

           Reaction Formation

           Reaction formation is yet another defense mechanism common among
the anti-gun folks. Reaction formation occurs when a person's mind turns an
unacceptable feeling or desire into its complete opposite.13 For example, a
child who is jealous of a sibling may exhibit excessive love and devotion
for the hated brother or sister.

           Likewise, a person who harbors murderous rage toward his fellow
humans may claim to be a devoted pacifist and refuse to eat meat or even
kill a cockroach.14 Often such people take refuge in various spiritual
disciplines and believe that they are "superior" to "less civilized" folks
who engage in "violent behavior" such as hunting, or even target shooting.
They may devote themselves to "animal welfare" organizations that proclaim
that the rights of animals take precedence over the rights of people.15 This
not only allows the angry person to avoid dealing with his rage, it allows
him actually to harm the people he hates without having to know he hates
them.

           This is not meant to disparage the many wonderful people who are
pacifists, spiritually inclined, vegetarian, or who support animal welfare.
The key issue is not the belief itself, but rather the way in which the
person experiences and lives his beliefs. Sincere practitioners seek to
improve themselves, or to be helpful in a gentle, respectful fashion. They
work to persuade others peacefully by setting an example of what they
believe to be correct behavior. Sincere pacifists generally exhibit good
will towards others, even towards persons with whom they might disagree on
various issues.

           Contrast the sincere pacifist or animal lover with the strident,
angry person who wants to ban meat and who believes murdering hunters is
justified in order to "save the animals" - or the person who wants to outlaw
self- defense and believes innocent people have the obligation to be raped
and murdered for the good of society. For example, noted feminist Betty
Friedan said "that lethal violence even in self defense only engenders more
violence."16 The truly spiritual, pacifist person refrains from forcing
others to do what he believes, and is generally driven by positive emotions,
while the angry person finds "socially acceptable" ways to harm, abuse, or
even kill, his fellow man.

           In the case of anti-gun people, reaction formation keeps any
knowledge of their hatred for their fellow humans out of consciousness,
while allowing them to feel superior to "violent gun owners". At the same
time, it also allows them to cause serious harm, and even loss of life, to
others by denying them the tools necessary to defend themselves. This makes
reaction formation very attractive from a psychological point of view, and
therefore very difficult to counteract.

           Defense Mechanisms Are Not Mental Illnesses

           Defense mechanisms are normal. All of us use them to some
extent, and their use does not imply mental illness. Advocates of victim
disarmament may be misguided or uninformed, they may be stupid, or they may
be consciously intent on evil, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are
"mentally ill".

           Some defense mechanisms, however, are healthier than others. A
safe general rule is that a defense is healthy if it helps you to function
better in your personal and professional life, and unhealthy if it
interferes with your life, your relationships, or the well-being of others.
Young children utilize projection and denial much more commonly than do
healthy adults. On the other hand, "if projection is used as a defense
mechanism to a very great extent in adult life, the user's perception of
external reality will be seriously distorted."17

           Defense mechanisms are also frequently combined, so that an
anti-gun person may use several defense mechanisms simultaneously. For
example, my unfortunate correspondent uses projection to create a world in
which all his neighbors want to murder him. As a result, he becomes more
angry and fearful, and needs to employ even more defense mechanisms to cope.
So he uses projection to attribute his own rage to others, he uses denial
that there is any danger to protect himself from a world where he believes
he is helpless and everyone wants to murder him, and he uses reaction
formation to try to control everyone else's life because his own is so
horribly out of control.

           Also, it's important to remember that not all anti-gun beliefs
are the result of defense mechanisms. Some people suffer from gun phobia18,
an excessive and completely irrational fear of firearms, usually caused by
the anti-gun conditioning they've been subjected to by the media,
politicians, so-called "educators," and others. In some cases, gun phobia is
caused by an authentic bad experience associated with a firearm. But with
all due respect to Col. Jeff Cooper, who coined the term "hoplophobia" to
describe anti-gun people, most anti-gun people do not have true phobias.
Interestingly, a person with a true phobia of guns realizes his fear is
excessive or unreasonable,19 something most anti-gun folks will never admit.

           Defense mechanisms distort reality

           Because defense mechanisms distort reality in order to avoid
unpleasant emotions, the person who uses them has an impaired ability to
recognize and accept reality. This explains why my e-mail correspondent and
many other anti-gun people persist in believing that their neighbors and co-
workers will become mass murderers if allowed to own firearms.

           People who legally carry concealed firearms are actually less
violent and less prone to criminal activity of all kinds than is the general
population.20 A person who has a clean record, has passed an FBI background
check, undergone firearms training, and spent several hundred dollars to get
a permit and a firearm, is highly unlikely to choose to murder a neighbor.
Doing so would result in his facing a police manhunt, a trial, prison,
possibly capital punishment, and the destruction of his family, job, and
reputation. Obviously it would make no sense for such a person to shoot a
neighbor - except in self-defense. Equally obviously, the anti-gun person
who believes that malicious shootings by ordinary gun owners are likely to
occur is not in touch with reality.21

           The Common Thread: Rage

           In my experience, the common thread in anti-gun people is rage.
Either anti-gun people harbor more rage than others, or they're less able to
cope with it appropriately. Because they can't handle their own feelings of
rage, they are forced to use defense mechanisms in an unhealthy manner.
Because they wrongly perceive others as seeking to harm them, they advocate
the disarmament of ordinary people who have no desire to harm anyone. So why
do anti-gun people have so much rage and why are they unable to deal with it
in appropriate ways? Consider for a moment that the largest and most
hysterical anti-gun groups include disproportionately large numbers of
women, African- Americans and Jews. And virtually all of the organizations
that claim to speak for these "oppressed people" are stridently anti-gun.
Not coincidentally, among Jews, Blacks and women there are many
"professional victims" who have little sense of identity outside of their
victimhood.

           Identity as Victim

           If I were to summarize this article in three sentences, they
would be:

             (1) People who identify themselves as "victims" harbor
excessive amounts of rage at other people, whom they perceive as "not
victims."
             (2) In order psychologically to deal with this rage, these
"victims" utilize defense mechanisms that enable them to harm others in
socially acceptable ways, without accepting responsibility or suffering
guilt, and without having to give up their status as "victims."

             (3) Gun owners are frequently the targets of professional
victims because gun owners are willing and able to prevent their own
victimization.

           Thus the concept of "identity as victim" is essential. How and
why do members of some groups choose to identify themselves as victims and
teach their children to do the same? While it's true that women, Jews, and
African- Americans have historically been victimized, they now participate
in American society on an equal basis. And other groups, most notably
Asian-Americans, have been equally victimized, and yet have transcended the
"eternal victim" mentality.

           Why, for example, would a 6'10" NBA player who makes $10 million
a year see himself as a "victim"? Why would a successful, respected,
wealthy, Jewish physician regard himself as a "victim"? Conversely, why
might a wheelchair bound woman who lives on government disability NOT regard
herself as a victim?

           I would argue it's because the basketball player and the
physician believe that their identities are dependent on being victims - not
because they have actually been victimized, but because they're members of
groups that claim victim status. Conversely, the disabled woman was probably
raised to believe that she is responsible for her own success or failure.

           In fact, many people who have been victims of actual violent
crime, or who have survived war or civil strife, support the right of
self-defense. The old saying is often correct: "a conservative is a liberal
who has been mugged."

           Special Treatment and Misleading Leaders

           Two reasons for these groups to insist on "victim" status seem
likely. First, by claiming victim status, members of these groups can demand
(and get) special treatment through quotas, affirmative action, reparations,
and other preferential treatment programs.

           Second, these people have been indoctrinated to believe that
there is no alternative to remaining a victim forever. Their leaders remind
them constantly that they are mistreated in every imaginable way (most of
them imaginary!), attribute every one of life's misfortunes to "racism" or
"sexism" or "hate crimes", and dream up ever more complex schemes for
special treatment and favors.22 These leaders are the ones who preach that
the entire Black experience is slavery and racism, or that Jewish history
before and after the Holocaust is irrelevant,23 or that happily married
women are really victims of sexual slavery.24

           Likewise, the NAACP is suing firearms manufacturers to put them
out of business,25 and is especially opposed to the inexpensive pistols that
enable the poor to defend themselves in gang-ridden inner cities. The
Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) proposed evicting anyone
who dares to keep a tool of self-defense in any of its crime-infested
housing projects. Jewish leaders, especially those in the politically
correct "Reform" branch, preach that gun control is "a solemn religious
obligation",26 contrary to the teachings of their sacred scriptures and
their own history.27 Law enforcement agencies falsely teach women that they
are safest if they don't resist rapists and robbers,28 while women's
organizations advocate gun control, thus rendering women and their children
defenseless.

           Victimhood is good business for organizations that foster victim
status. As victims, the members depend upon the organization to protect
them, and the organization in turn relies on members for funding and
political power. In the interest of self-preservation, these organizations
work hard at preserving hatred and bigotry and at keeping their members
defenseless - and therefore dependent.

           Anti-gun groups love victims!

           From my observations, pro-victimhood is a feature of all of the
anti-gun special interest groups, not just the ones mentioned here. Every
organization that supports gun control apparently wants its members to be
helpless, terrified and totally dependent on someone else to control every
aspect of their lives. It doesn't matter whether it's a religious, racial,
ethnic, political, social, or charitable group. From Handgun Control, Inc.
to the Anti- Defamation League to the Million Mom March, they all want you
to live in fear. In this scheme, soccer moms are "victims" just as much as
are inner-city minorities.

           If these organizations truly cared about the people for whom
they claim to speak, they would encourage safe and responsible firearms
ownership. They would help people to learn how to defend themselves and
their families so that they wouldn't have to live in fear. They would tell
everyone that one of the wonderful things about being an American is that
you have the right to keep and bear arms, the right to defend yourself, and
how these rights preserve the right to be free.

           The psychological price of being a victim

           In our current society, victimhood has many perceived benefits,
but there are some serious drawbacks. Victims tend to see the world as a
scary and threatening place. They believe that others treat them
differently, unfairly, and even maliciously - and that they are helpless to
do anything about it. This belief, that they are being mistreated and are
helpless to resist, generates tremendous rage, and often, serious
depression.

           But for victims to show rage openly can be dangerous, if not
outright suicidal. For example, a battered woman who screams at or hits her
attacker may provoke worse beatings or even her own murder. And a person who
successfully defends himself loses his status as "victim." For someone whose
entire identity is dependent on being a victim, the loss of victim status is
just as threatening as loss of life.

           So, unable psychologically to cope with such rage, people who
view themselves as victims: (1) use defense mechanisms to displace it into
irrational beliefs about neighbors killing each other, and the infallibility
of police protection, and (2) attempt to regain control by controlling gun
owners, whom they wrongly perceive as "the enemy".

           Say NO to being a victim!

           But no one needs to be a victim! Quite simply, it's not very
easy to victimize a person who owns and knows how to use a firearm. If most
women owned and carried firearms, rapes and beating would decrease.29 Thugs
who target the elderly and disabled would find honest work once they
realized they were likely to be looking down the barrel of a pistol or
shotgun. It's nearly impossible to enslave, or herd into concentration
camps, large numbers of armed people.

           Notes

           1 Lott, John R., Jr. 1998. More Guns, Less Crime. University of
Chicago Press. Pp. 11-12; Proposition B: More Security Or Greater Danger?,
St. Louis Post-Dispatch. March 21, 1999.

           2 Lott 1998, Pp. 1-2.

           3 Kaplan, Harold M. and Sadock, Benjamin J. 1990. Pocket
Handbook of Clinical Psychiatry. Williams & Wilkins. P. 20.

           4Brenner, Charles. 1973. An Elementary Textbook of
Psychoanalysis (rev. ed.). Anchor Books. Pp. 91-93; Lefton, Lester A. 1994.
Psychology (5th edition). Allyn & Bacon. Pp. 432-433.

           5 Brenner 1973. P. 91.

           6 Kaplan and Sadock 1990, p. 20; Lefton 1994, p. 432.

           7 Talbott, John A., Robert E. Hales and Stuart C. Yudofsky, eds.
1988. Textbook of Psychiatry. American Psychiatric Press. P.137.

           8 "Kids Suspended for Playground Game." Associated Press. April
6, 2000.

           9 Lightfoot, Liz. "Gun Return to the Nursery School Toy Chest."
The London Telegraph. May 22, 2000. Kaplan and Sadock 1990, p. 20; Lefton
1994, p. 433.

           10 Stevens, Richard W. 1999. Dial 911 and Die. Mazel Freedom
Press. [Analyzes the law in 54 U.S. jurisdictions]; see, e.g., Bowers v.
DeVito, 686 F.2d 616, 618 (7th Cir. 1982) [no federal constitutional right
to police protection.]

           11 Kleck, Gary and Gertz, Marc. 1995. Armed Resistance to Crime:
The Prevalence and Nature of Self- Defense with a Gun. Journal of Criminal
Law & Criminology. Vol. 86 (Fall), pp. 150-187.

           12 Simkin, Jay, Zelman, Aaron, and Rice, Alan M. 1994. Lethal
Laws. Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.

           13 Kaplan and Sadock 1990, p. 20; Lefton 1994, p. 433.

           14 Brenner 1973, p. 85.

           15 Veith, Gene Edward, Jr. 1993. Modern m: Liquidating the
Judeo-Christian Worldview. Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing. Pp. 39-40 [ m
exalts nature, animals and environment].

           16 Japenga, A. 1994. Would I Be Safer with a Gun? Health.
March/April, p. 54.

           17 Brenner 1973, p. 92.

           18 Kaplan and Sadock 1990, p. 219.

           19 American Psychiatric Association. 1994. Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition. P. 410.

           20 Lott 1998, pp. 11-12.

           21 Most American gun owners are not violent criminals and will
not be potential killers. "The vast majority of persons involved in
life-threatening violence have a long criminal record and many prior
contacts with the justice system." Elliott, Delbert S. 1998. Life
Threatening Violence is Primarily a Crime Problem: A Focus on Prevention.
University of Colorado Law Review. Vol. 69 (Fall), pp. 1081-1098, at 1093.

           22 Sowell, Thomas. 2000. Blacks and bootstraps. Jewish World
Review (Aug.14). http://www.jewishworldreview.com

           23x Wein, Rabbi Berel. 2000. The return of a Torah scroll and
confronting painful memories. Jewish World Review (July 12).

           24 Dworkin, Andrea. "Terror, Torture and Resistance".
http://www.igc.org/Womensnet/dworkin/TerrorTortureandResistance.html

           25 Mfume, Kweisi, speech at the 90th annual NAACP meeting, July
12, 1999.
http://www.naacp.org/president/speeches/90th%20Annual%20Meeting.htm

           26 Yoffie, Rabbi Eric H. Speech supporting the Million Mom
March, May 14, 2000. http://uahc.org/yoffie/mmm.html

           27 "If someone comes to kill you, arise quickly and kill him."
The Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin. 1994. The Schottenstein Edition. New York:
Mesorah Publications. Vol. 2, 72a.

           28 Rape and Sexual Assault, Dean of Students Office for Women's
Resources and Services McKinley Health Education Dept., University Police,
University of Illinois; Hazelwood, R. R. & Harpold, J. 1986. Rape: The
Dangers of Providing Confrontational Advice, FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin.
Vol. 55, pp. 1-5.

           29 Lott 1998, pp. 78, 134-37.

           30 Frank, Jerome D. 1961. Persuasion and Healing. The Johns
Hopkins Press. Pp. 216-217.
Nomen Nescio - 17 Mar 2006 07:00 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com>

>Why do you care what I think?

Cause you're the loudmouth that thinks that the
only opinion that matters is yours. And, quite honestly,
your fondness, and support, for violent criminals is
very offensive.
You are totally lacking in capacity for rational thought,
as your inability to muster an intelligent response
illustrates. You have a chip on your shoulder the size
of a truck. You're telling Candace to walk into a battle
that, by your own admission, you would lack the character
to fight yourself. As an avid Chess player, I enjoy
maneuvering an individual into an indefensible position.
And I am enjoying watching you try to squirm your way
out of answering my question......Poorly, I might add.
Should I continue?

>To you I'm just another dumb, incompetent
>female

True!

>good for nothing but being pregnant

My understanding is that you weren't any good
at that, either.
(Ok, it's a cheap shot and I debated posting it,
but then I remembered that you were the queen
of cheap shots...so I left it in.)

>barefoot in the
>kitchen.

Actually, I think it would be good for you to put
on some shoes and get out of the house once
in a while.....and maybe stay out of the kitchen
for a few months.

And trying once again......How would you
handle it?
cybercat - 17 Mar 2006 03:32 GMT
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> seem capable of answering the question.......
> How would you have handled it?

Hello, a.shole. :) You are so predictable lately.

What do you want Lyn to say? That she would hope she had
a gun so she could blow the guy away?

I can tell you what I would do. If I had a child I would have a designated
spot for him (them) to hide in in the case of such an event--a really good
hiding place, in a room with a lockable, barrable door. I would hide them
and I would close myself in that room and call 911. If I had a house alarm
I would set it so that the police would be summoned, as well, as soon as
I saw the guy. I might have a fire extinguisher or pepper spray with me
in case the guy got in to the room where I was. If I had a gun, I would have
that with me. But I most likely would not have a gun. (It would be really
great
if I had a pot of hot grease on hand, but that is a bit much to hope for.)

Do you still have a cat, or has it died while you've been busy being an
aggressive moron?
Miami Jones - 17 Mar 2006 04:10 GMT
there was a movie about this.
only thing, the intruder cut the wires and
trapped them in the "Panic Room"

pot of hot grease, I can see you keeping the fry daddy hot just for such an
occasion..."ill deep fry your a.s muffu"

just kidding!

--

people who break in during the day figure no one is home, but in this case,
woman and child, he knew they was there.
however and Especially at night. they know people are home and are ready to
hurt the owner.

i have often figured I would shoot their kneecaps off, bind them, rob them,
then call the police. (im an oppurtunist)

I have heard of cases where the robber sued the owner for personal injury
AND WON

I would also not wait for them to get past the threshold, (if i heard them
trying to force a door) I would open the door, draw a bead on them, compell
them to come in the house, ("naw naw naw! come on in...I said get to
stepping") mak'em CLEAN my  house, WASH my clothes, BATHE my cats, CLEAN the
litter box, CHANGE the oil in my vehicle, and shine my shoes. When it's all
said and done, I'd bust a cap in their a.s, bind them, gag them, rob them,
then call the police, and rescue. "Hurry! I just shot an intruder! I was
taking a nap and they was standing over me!"

police will tell me... "wow, you sure keep a nice place Miami"... I'll wink
and say, "Thank you officer, a mans home is his castle".

i'll probably slap the intruder in the back of the head as they bring him
past me, they'll have to restrain me...

> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> Do you still have a cat, or has it died while you've been busy being an
> aggressive moron?
cybercat - 17 Mar 2006 04:18 GMT
> there was a movie about this.
> only thing, the intruder cut the wires and
> trapped them in the "Panic Room"

You know, I was thinking of that very movie as I
posted, and I was thinking, this would be better than
a hiding place for the kids.

I was also thinking that they say if you know someone
is coming to get YOU, you should put your kids in
another room. But I would want to be there to try
to keep the bad guy from them--I don't think many
mothers could put the kids in another room no matter
how good the hiding place. Per hiding places: it would
have to be a really, really good one, like a safe drilled
with air holes. :O\

> pot of hot grease, I can see you keeping the fry daddy hot just for such an
> occasion..."ill deep fry your a.s muffu"

I think a well-aimed pan of hot grease would slow him down.
But God help me if I miss!

In all seriousness, I do not think good would come of everyone
having a handgun.

Wayyy too many stupid people out there. Not to mention that
it has always been true that most handgun homicides involve
people who know one another who have gotten in to conflicts.

[No, Nomen, you a.s. Find your own links.]
-L. - 17 Mar 2006 07:26 GMT
> You know, I was thinking of that very movie as I
> posted, and I was thinking, this would be better than
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> have to be a really, really good one, like a safe drilled
> with air holes. :O\

I don't know of a 1 or 2 year old that would stay without the Mother
there.  Even older kids would be reluctant to do so.

> > pot of hot grease, I can see you keeping the fry daddy hot just for such
> an
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> In all seriousness, I do not think good would come of everyone
> having a handgun.

Especially not in a house with kids.

> Wayyy too many stupid people out there. Not to mention that
> it has always been true that most handgun homicides involve
> people who know one another who have gotten in to conflicts.

I suspect the woman in this story knew the perp - most situations like
this are jilted lovers or aquaintences coming for revenge.  We just
don't have all of the story yet.  Probably just another "big bad black
guy" from the media...and so predictanle being posted by racist, sexist
a.shole Nomen.

And, BTW, I don't think this is the same Nomen as before.  It wouldn't
have taken him this long to show his true colors.

-L.
Matthew AKA NMR ( NO MORE RETAIL ) - 17 Mar 2006 07:28 GMT
you ought to see his post in rec.arts.disney.parks

>> You know, I was thinking of that very movie as I
>> posted, and I was thinking, this would be better than
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> -L.
Nomen Nescio - 17 Mar 2006 12:10 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "Matthew AKA NMR \( NO MORE RETAIL \)" <10 points a troll @linethetrollsup.com>

>you ought to see his post in rec.arts.disney.parks

Wrong "Nomen".
Matthew AKA NMR ( NO MORE RETAIL ) - 17 Mar 2006 16:23 GMT
>>you ought to see his post in rec.arts.disney.parks
>
> Wrong "Nomen".
Looks like the same one to me

Path:
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From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.disney.parks
Subject: Haunted Mansion refurbishment questions?
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From: Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com>
Subject: Re: I wonder how Lyn would handle this!
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
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Nomen Nescio - 17 Mar 2006 21:10 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "Matthew AKA NMR \( NO MORE RETAIL \)" <10 points a troll @linethetrollsup.com>

>> Wrong "Nomen".
>Looks like the same one to me

It's a remailer. 100 different people a day
will post through it.
It's the PGP sig that identifies me as "me".
cybercat - 17 Mar 2006 07:33 GMT
> > how good the hiding place. Per hiding places: it would
> > have to be a really, really good one, like a safe drilled
> > with air holes. :O\
>
> I don't know of a 1 or 2 year old that would stay without the Mother
> there.  Even older kids would be reluctant to do so.

Yeah, I am handicapped here having no kids.

> > In all seriousness, I do not think good would come of everyone
> > having a handgun.
>
> Especially not in a house with kids.

Hell no, we see the results of that in the news on a regular basis.

> > Wayyy too many stupid people out there. Not to mention that
> > it has always been true that most handgun homicides involve
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> And, BTW, I don't think this is the same Nomen as before.  It wouldn't
> have taken him this long to show his true colors.

I know it is. I can tell by his language. He's just going through something
now. Maybe the guns-'n-women v men thing is the only thing that does
it for him these days. *shaking my head*

I know we have a man in the White House. I can tell by how BIG
the deficit has grown, and by all the room for the EXPANSION
of it Bush and his cronies allowed for today. Jesus.
-L. - 17 Mar 2006 07:46 GMT
> I know we have a man in the White House. I can tell by how BIG
> the deficit has grown, and by all the room for the EXPANSION
> of it Bush and his cronies allowed for today. Jesus.

2.8 trillion.  I can barely get the words out.  When will someone stop
this madness?
-L.
Matthew AKA NMR ( NO MORE RETAIL ) - 17 Mar 2006 07:53 GMT
>> I know we have a man in the White House. I can tell by how BIG
>> the deficit has grown, and by all the room for the EXPANSION
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> this madness?
> -L.

Let's not go there today Please.  No matter what president is in office
democrat, republican, liberal or right wing something  will make that
president stand out no matter what good or bad.   It never fails one minute
they are loved the next minute they are the hated.  NO POLITICS  you can't
argue something that no one can be right at.

3 things never to argue about both sides are always right no matter what
Politics, Religion, Sex
-L. - 17 Mar 2006 07:57 GMT
> Let's not go there today Please.  No matter what president is in office
> democrat, republican, liberal or right wing something  will make that
> president stand out no matter what good or bad.   It never fails one minute
> they are loved the next minute they are the hated.

In this case they have always been hated...by me and everyone I know,
at least.

-L.
Charlie Wilkes - 17 Mar 2006 14:17 GMT
>> Let's not go there today Please.  No matter what president is in office
>> democrat, republican, liberal or right wing something  will make that
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>-L.

Women view the current administration through a fog of sexual desire
centered around the Vice President.  But as a man, I admire his crisp
intellect and steadiness.  It's too bad he got shitfaced and shot that
guy, because it gave the public the impression that he's some kind of
a drunken doofus, which is very much mistaken.  Multiple DWIs???  Give
me a break.  That was a long time ago.  Cheney doesn't even drive
anymore.  He's got a chauffeur, and secret-service guys to snatch away
the keys if there is even a hint of doubt.

Plus I think it's very hypocritical for the liberals to complain about
that hunting incident.  After all, they are always griping about
far-right reactionaries... they should at least have the consistency
to sound a note of affirmation when Cheney shoots one of his friends.

God bless America and our fine leaders.  Cynics can go straight to
hell.

Charlie
cybercat - 17 Mar 2006 14:54 GMT
"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie_wilkes@users.easynews.com> wrote>
> Women view the current administration through a fog of sexual desire
> centered around the Vice President.  But as a man, I admire his crisp
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> God bless America and our fine leaders.  Cynics can go straight to
> hell.

Thanks for my first big laugh of the day, Charlie. :)
-L. - 17 Mar 2006 18:15 GMT
> Women view the current administration through a fog of sexual desire
> centered around the Vice President.  But as a man, I admire his crisp
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> far-right reactionaries... they should at least have the consistency
> to sound a note of affirmation when Cheney shoots one of his friends.

You mean you couldn't hear me cheering all the way from PDX?  Dang!  I
will turn up my volume next time...
-L.
Miami Jones - 17 Mar 2006 11:10 GMT
"Matthew AKA NMR ( NO MORE RETAIL )"
> 3 things never to argue about both sides are always right no matter what
> Politics, Religion, Sex

sex?

i thought everybody agreed about sex
Charlie Wilkes - 17 Mar 2006 13:58 GMT
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:53:16 GMT, "Matthew AKA NMR \( NO MORE RETAIL
\)" <10 points a troll @linethetrollsup.com> wrote:

>>> I know we have a man in the White House. I can tell by how BIG
>>> the deficit has grown, and by all the room for the EXPANSION
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>3 things never to argue about both sides are always right no matter what
>Politics, Religion, Sex

Bah.  Who cares if no one is right?  It's fun to discuss politics.

Here is some of my political commentary:

http://www.geocities.com/wilkes_charlie/agitprop.htm

Charlie
Nomen Nescio - 17 Mar 2006 22:40 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com>

>2.8 trillion.  I can barely get the words out.  When will someone stop
>this madness?

The same day they stop all the "entitlement" programs.
Of course there will then be looting and rioting that
will make post-katrina New Orleans look like a
sunny day in the park. Politicians will never let that
happen willingly.
We're in too deep to stop a total collapse. Even a major
currency devaluation probably won't help.
The New Rome is crumbling, the only question is "when
will it fall?".
Hopefully, by then, I'll be sitting on a beach in the Caribbean
with all my money in a Swiss account.
Miami Jones - 17 Mar 2006 11:09 GMT
"cybercat" <boagrrl@hotmail.com> wrote in message > I know we have a man in
the White House. I can tell by how BIG
> the deficit has grown

yes honey, but look how much we saved
cybercat - 18 Mar 2006 02:44 GMT
> "cybercat" <boagrrl@hotmail.com> wrote in message > I know we have a man in
> the White House. I can tell by how BIG
> > the deficit has grown
>
> yes honey, but look how much we saved

What?? The tax cuts? I don't make more than a million a year, so I got
nothing.
Do you?
cybercat - 18 Mar 2006 02:45 GMT
> "cybercat" <boagrrl@hotmail.com> wrote in message > I know we have a man in
> the White House. I can tell by how BIG
> > the deficit has grown
>
> yes honey, but look how much we saved

P.S. I like "honey" better than "a.shole." Just an FYI. :O)
Miami Jones - 18 Mar 2006 04:34 GMT
"cybercat" <boagrrl@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> P.S. I like "honey" better than "a.shole." Just an FYI. :O)

this is what women say to men when they blow up the malls...

Yes honey, but look how much money I saved!

sucka!

whats with this a.shole stuff?
i called you that?

i can't remember...

I told you Im you're pusher man
Miami Jones - 18 Mar 2006 22:34 GMT
> P.S. I like "honey" better than "a.shole." Just an FYI. :O)

if you hadn't been on here acting like an a.shole then I wouldn't have
had to resort to calling you an "a.shole" Just an FYI. :0)
cybercat - 19 Mar 2006 00:47 GMT
> > P.S. I like "honey" better than "a.shole." Just an FYI. :O)
>
> if you hadn't been on here acting like an a.shole then I wouldn't have
> had to resort to calling you an "a.shole" Just an FYI. :0)

Well, if you want to get particular, I actually called you an a.shole
first. Honey. :)
Miami Jones - 19 Mar 2006 02:42 GMT
> Well, if you want to get particular, I actually called you an a.shole
> first. Honey. :)

yeeeaaah that's the stuff...
heh heh

when you get done on usenet, how bout come in here, im in the living
room,
you wear that little red dress with the chickens on it for me?
cybercat - 19 Mar 2006 04:20 GMT
> > Well, if you want to get particular, I actually called you an a.shole
> > first. Honey. :)
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> room,
> you wear that little red dress with the chickens on it for me?

ooo Daddy, you want the chicken dress tonight? well, well, well ... ;)
Matthew AKA NMR ( NO MORE RETAIL ) - 19 Mar 2006 04:20 GMT
>> > Well, if you want to get particular, I actually called you an a.shole
>> > first. Honey. :)
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> ooo Daddy, you want the chicken dress tonight? well, well, well ... ;)

I think I am going to be sick

Get a room you two!!
cybercat - 19 Mar 2006 04:44 GMT
> >> > Well, if you want to get particular, I actually called you an a.shole
> >> > first. Honey. :)
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Get a room you two!!

This is it. :P Consider it performance art and be glad you don't have to pay
for it.
Miami Jones - 19 Mar 2006 15:21 GMT
"cybercat" <boagrrl@hotmail.com> wrote in message > This is it. :P Consider
it performance art and be glad you don't have to pay
> for it.

haaaaay! how come he don't have to pay?
don't make me post all them paypal receipts
cybercat - 19 Mar 2006 21:03 GMT
> "cybercat" <boagrrl@hotmail.com> wrote in message > This is it. :P Consider
> it performance art and be glad you don't have to pay
> > for it.
>
> haaaaay! how come he don't have to pay?
> don't make me post all them paypal receipts

*gasp*

lol
Nomen Nescio - 17 Mar 2006 10:30 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "-L." <gentleboa@peacemail.com>

>> In all seriousness, I do not think good would come of everyone
>> having a handgun.
>
>Especially not in a house with kids.

Loaded, unlocked, in a house with small children......
Idiotic!
I don't even have kids and ALL my guns are either
on my person, or locked in a couple of very secure
safes.
No child in my house is in danger from any of
my guns.
BUT, and it's a big but, there are a lot of idiots
that keep an unlocked, loaded, gun in every room
in the house (really....I've seen them) and have
their kids, their kid's friends, whoever, running around
the house unsupervised. Stupid.
You may not have a gun, but you can bet that one
of your kid's friend's parents does. And it may be
loaded and accessible to your kid. Scary thought!
Kids are attracted to guns, especially if they have
not been exposed to them before.
One of the best things you can do for a kid is to
have them learn about guns at a young age, and
3 or 4 is not too young.
Short story:
I was visiting an old friend and when I bent over
to take off my shoes, his 4 yo son saw my .38
revolver tucked in my belt. "Is that a real gun",
he asked. "Sure is, would you like to see it".
So, with his father's permission, I unloaded it
and handed it to the kid while explaining how
it worked, how to safely handle it, and (this is
important) how to tell if it is loaded or unloaded.
It took less than 5 min. and then I loaded it and
put it back in the holster. The kid was thrilled.
Foreward 2 years: My friend came to visit me
and brought his (now 6yo) son who almost
immediately asked if I still had the gun. So I
went to get it, double checked to make sure it was
unloaded, and handed it to him. The first thing
the kid did was.......push the cylinder release,
slide the cylinder out, and CHECK that was not
loaded. Lesson learned and remembered.
The NRA has some literature about keeping
kids safe around guns with emphasis on "do
not touch and leave the area" that they distribute
at no charge, BTW.

>I suspect the woman in this story knew the perp - most situations like
>this are jilted lovers or aquaintences coming for revenge.

Wrong!

>We just
>don't have all of the story yet.

Correct! But I'd bet she didn't know the guy. I
think she would have said that she did and I'm
sure she was asked.

>Probably just another "big bad black
>guy" from the media...and so predictanle being posted by racist, sexist
>a.shole Nomen.

The article that I posted hadn't identified the guy.
I didn't know he was black when I posted it.
You f.cked up again, Sunshine.

>And, BTW, I don't think this is the same Nomen as before.  It wouldn't
>have taken him this long to show his true colors.

Wrong again. Same one. Check the PGP sig. Or ask
Charlie to do it if you don't have PGP. It can't be forged.
You're just getting a light taste of how vicious I can become
when I'm (In my opinion) unjustly attacked. Which, BTW, is
no where near as vicious as I can become when defending
myself, or someone else, from a loser that wants to physically
attack an innocent "victim" IRL.
Charlie Wilkes - 17 Mar 2006 13:47 GMT
>> there was a movie about this.
>> only thing, the intruder cut the wires and
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>have to be a really, really good one, like a safe drilled
>with air holes. :O\

I think there's room to allow the advantages of having recourse to
arms in one's home.  

Charlie
Charlie Wilkes - 17 Mar 2006 13:44 GMT
>there was a movie about this.
>only thing, the intruder cut the wires and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>people who break in during the day figure no one is home, but in this case,
>woman and child, he knew they was there.

It sounds like he wanted to rape the woman.  Obviously she came out
ahead by having a gun ready.

Unfortunately, you can't extrapolate too far from that situation.
What about the jittery carjacker, the guy who just robbed a store...
by the time you know there's a problem, the shot has already been
fired.

Nomen might tell us his superior acumen and reflexes will overcome any
such situations, but I won't believe it.  I've had a bit of experience
with this, just enough to make me a skeptic about the usefulness of
guns vis a vis personal security.

Charlie

>however and Especially at night. they know people are home and are ready to
>hurt the owner.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>i'll probably slap the intruder in the back of the head as they bring him
>past me, they'll have to restrain me...
Miami Jones - 17 Mar 2006 13:59 GMT
> Nomen might tell us his superior acumen and reflexes will overcome any
> such situations, but I won't believe it.  I've had a bit of experience
> with this, just enough to make me a skeptic about the usefulness of
> guns vis a vis personal security.

fo real! who is trained in this, nobody
well a few sure, but that's just a few

there are other ways to thwart crimes against us

panic rooms, tazers, cow prods, aids in a hypadermic needle, watch
dogs, sec cameras, etc...

but if we are to stop thugs (to borrow a line from the Matrix) "we must
first shed our fear of them" they are cowards

My house was surrounded by cops the other night, seems our little
neighborhood corner store was robbed at gun point (for the second time
in under 9 days)
I have a privacy fence, the police thought perhaps the assailant was
hiding under my house.? yeah.

I shuffle to the door at 7 mins after midnight...locked and
loaded...they look at me, I say..HEY, I didn't know who it was knocking
on my door!

while I typed this, I just smoked my cigarette down to a dark spot
between my teeth, then I swallowed it.
Nomen Nescio - 17 Mar 2006 20:40 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wilkes@users.easynews.com>

>It sounds like he wanted to rape the woman.  Obviously she came out
>ahead by having a gun ready.

Without a doubt, he wasn't there to clean the
house and cook dinner. But rape a 9 month
pregnant woman? Possible, but I'd doubt it.

>Unfortunately, you can't extrapolate too far from that situation.
>What about the jittery carjacker, the guy who just robbed a store...
>by the time you know there's a problem, the shot has already been
>fired.

I attended a lecture on defensive handgun use,
many years ago. The speaker was a cop who,
among other things, was the person who would
be sent into a building when a hostage situation
needed to be ended "right now". He'd been in
several close range shootouts that always ended
without injury to himself or a hostage (The perp
never fared too well, though).
The two most interesting bits of information that
I picked up were:
1) He was asked what the best defensive handgun
was (He used a highly accurized .45). His response:
"Any functional gun and two seconds warning will
do more for you than being surprised while holding
the best gun in the world". Lesson: Situational awareness
is critical.
2) He color coded the situation before walking into
the building. The example he gave was a hostage
situation with 2 BGs and 3 hostages where he
accidently gave himself away when approaching
the group and the BGs took aim at him. He quickly
swept the whole group in one smooth motion and
squeezed off a round into the blue sweatshirt, passed
over the gray suit and the yellow dress, fired on
the black jacket, and passed the flannel shirt.
Lesson: Know what the wife and kids are wearing.

>Nomen might tell us his superior acumen and reflexes will overcome any
>such situations, but I won't believe it.

I just turned 50 last month, Charlie. My days of
"superior reflexes" are pretty much over. But
I keep well practiced and can certainly outshoot
most street thugs by a wide margin. Which really
isn't saying much since most of them couldn't hit
a barn if they were standing inside it. Unlike the
movies, handgun use is not that easy an "art" to
pick up. Hell, I've seen cops miss a man sized
target half the time at 20 feet. Rule of thumb says
your accuracy will decrease by 50% in RL combat.
Since I can rapid fire a 2-3" group at 20 ft at the
range with my Sig Sauer, I can't expect much better
than a 6" group when the SHTF. That pretty much
rules out a head shot.

>I've had a bit of experience
>with this, just enough to make me a skeptic about the usefulness of
>guns vis a vis personal security.

I'd be quite interested in hearing about your
"experience".

http://rense.com/general69/hold.htm
Miami Jones - 18 Mar 2006 00:33 GMT
>http://rense.com/general69/hold.htm

I love it!
Nomen Nescio - 18 Mar 2006 08:40 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "Miami Jones" <iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii@iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.com>

>>http://rense.com/general69/hold.htm
>
>I love it!

I wondered if anyone would notice the link.
I love the little "three stooges" move at the
counter right before the guy heads for the door.
One of the funniest things I've ever seen.
Miami Jones - 18 Mar 2006 15:26 GMT
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: "Miami Jones" <iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii@iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.com>

> >I love it!
>
> I wondered if anyone would notice the link.
> I love the little "three stooges" move at the
> counter right before the guy heads for the door.
> One of the funniest things I've ever seen.

one of my favorite crimes gone bad videos:

dude walks into a bank, pulls a gun on the teller

a thick steel panel flies up between him and the tellers...(too funny)
SPROING! problem solved.
he never planned on that one!

he turns and runs against the doors..but they won't open...he starts wailing
on the doors...
boom boom boom...nothing...he looks like a rat pacing in a hot frying pan

an old lady pushes the doors open coming into the bank, the doors simply
opened from outside in
----
another one: a drunk walks into a convenient store reaches across the
counter grabs some tobacco, but the -old timer- grabbed his arm, pushed a
button and locked all the doors!

the old timer (in his plexi security case) was talking sh.t to him
("yeaaaahh, you're goin to jail now!") while the drunk tries to tear the
doors off...
(he got away, but he earned his freedom tearing the lucite out the door
frame)
Charlie Wilkes - 18 Mar 2006 04:48 GMT
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
>I'd be quite interested in hearing about your
>"experience".

I have been threatened with guns a few times, many years ago, and
looking back on those situations I don't see that I could have done
much if I'd had a gun myself.  It's what the cop said about 2 seconds
warning.

Also I have practiced enough to become familiar with the accuracy
issues you mention above.  I've got a .38 spl that I would use from a
springhold, and that's about it.  I wouldn't announce it like the
woman in the news story.  

Charlie
Miami Jones - 18 Mar 2006 05:03 GMT
Thomas Jefferson shot a man on the Whitehouse lawn

I keep my foil on my hat, but the people who made swordfish, still got that
concept from me..im still befuddled how it happened....

my point is...

im going to bust a cap in anyone who threatens my life

you know what im saying, I am astonished that anyone would consider thinking
TWICE as to wither or not she should have shot the man...

she should get up and say, yeah I shot him! i didn't know what he was going
do to me.

then you consider all the missing adults in America who are offered up to
Satan, then you consider all the children who are missing only God knows
where..

then you consider the cannibals who purchase people

there are "men stealers" in the world.

this is only the tip; we're not ignorant of what men and women do...

> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
>
> Charlie
Miami Jones - 18 Mar 2006 05:04 GMT
no, not all missing adults end up a sacrifice, but some do!

> Thomas Jefferson shot a man on the Whitehouse lawn
>
[quoted text clipped - 100 lines]
> >
> > Charlie
Nomen Nescio - 18 Mar 2006 12:00 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "Miami Jones" <iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii@iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.com>

>you know what im saying, I am astonished that anyone would consider thinking
>TWICE as to wither or not she should have shot the man...

Totally baffling, isn't it?
Some people can't seem to realize that sometimes
you can be faced with only 2 options. One is bad, the
other is worse.
Bad: Shootout with an armed assailant, in your home,
with kids in the house.
Worse: letting an armed assailant into the house to
take control of you and your kids.
People like that a.shole depend on a victim "freezing up"
in a situation like that. She didn't...he lost. I'll bet none
of his other victims had fought back.
It may sound morbid, but I would have LOVED to have
seen the look on his face when her shot "connected".
Miami Jones - 18 Mar 2006 15:12 GMT
> Totally baffling, isn't it?

yes it is, of course if you're the vice president, nobody thinks twice (but
i did - lol)
peppered the man in the face with bird shot, just awful.. thwapt! DANG SORRY
MAN!
no no... Im sorry for standing in the path of your spray mr cheney, i
consider it a priveledge to be shot by you.
talk about low self esteem!

> Some people can't seem to realize that sometimes
> you can be faced with only 2 options. One is bad, the
> other is worse.

we have a right to bear arms, this is what they are for, to protect
ourselves
i be damned if Im gonna sit and calculate the risks involved in a life or
death exchange
there's not time, and the whole matter is very simple.

> It may sound morbid, but I would have LOVED to have
> seen the look on his face when her shot "connected".

allow me

http://tinyurl.com/b88hz
Nomen Nescio - 19 Mar 2006 01:30 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "Miami Jones" <iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii@iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.com>

>we have a right to bear arms, this is what they are for, to protect
>ourselves
>i be damned if Im gonna sit and calculate the risks involved in a life or
>death exchange
>there's not time, and the whole matter is very simple.

You're a fuckin' gun totin, micro penis, psycho, racist, Delta
team wannabe! <G>

I stole this from another group.
I think it represents the way Lyn views ANYONE
who would EVER want to be anywhere near one
of those  EVIL GUNS.
"As I was leaving my house I stuffed my Glock 10mm "man gun" Mexican
style in my pants. My backup is a fully customized 1911 with all the
IPSC add-on options in my $500.00 leather pancake holster custom made
by Belgian Monks who have devoted their lives to silence and holster
making. These are the ones used by Delta, which I used to be a part of
but all records of my activities were destroyed in a fire "accident".

I put on my Royal Robbins photographer vest to match my pants while
wearing a T-Shirt underneath reading "RANGER." That way, nobody can
see what I'm packing. I had my Centennial .38 Special in my ankle
holster, just like the gun rag guys carry. Lastly I had my "Covert
Sniper" I.D. Card in my wallet with my "Concealed Weapons Permit
Badge". I was ready for anything.

I drove my "bug-out truck" to the 7-11 for some beer, 'cause you never
know. It is a performance-styled Subaru BRAT with 4 cylinders of
ground pounding fury.

I pull up to the 7-11 store and notice a nervous looking girl scout
eyeballing me from the back of her mother's SUV. A likely cover. The
mother returned to the truck and went for the keys in her purse, but I
knew from my years of combat-honed instincts that she was actually
making a furtive movement for an offensive weapon. I attempted a
tactical shoulder roll, but fell flat on my face, kind of flopping on
the pavement to avoid any incoming rounds and to make it look like I
meant to do that.

The store owner called 9-1-1 which is good, because I then did a roll
and attempted to draw my Glock. Unfortunately, since I did not have a
holster, the gun "went off" and the bullet creased my wiener. But I
was prepared for that and bit down on a 9mm casing to take my mind off
the pain as I dove for the garbage barrel. That's when I noticed the
girl scout shouting something to her mother who began to take cover. I
knew they were closing on me so I drew my trusty custom 1911 Wilson
COMBAT....I knew that they would be impressed with that.

I then duck walked to the front of her SUV but my gut kinda got in the
way and I fell on my a.s, which caused me to swallow my 9mm casing. I
then tried to roll to my right, but didn't want to scuff my holster,
so I just threw myself into a telephone pole, but I landed on my right
side anyway. So I fired one shot towards the woman's SUV to pin them
down as I recovered my wind.

Before the mother knew what was happening, I charged her and I threw
my groin into her knee. I knew that as I vomited on the ground in
front of her that I had interrupted her OODA loop, and I had the
advantage now. As she ran screaming for the Girl Scout

(I knew she was going for backup) I made for my super-charged BRAT
tactical truck.

I jumped into the driver seat, forgetting that I had left my rare
Israeli contract AR 15 Bayonet on the seat (honed to a razors edge). I
could handle it though; half my rear is an implant from war wounds. As
I attempted to start my truck, police and paramedics arrived on the
scene. My truck would not start and instead backfired once and caused
the police to taze me.

At this point, I tactically soiled myself while in convulsions. My
custom 1911 then fell out the window, but I still had my Centennial
.38. I knew then that I had to take out the woman with the purse. So I
aimed my revolver at her, at which point the first police officer
fired once striking me in the chest. Fortunately, I was wearing my
level 3A body armor.

I didn't want to hurt the cops, they had obviously been duped by the
evil temptress who was now embracing her partner in crime and crying
to the police in the background - I knew it was a ruse. I pulled out
my concealed weapons permit badge and showed it to the officer who
shot me and yelled out "I'm one of you guys!!!" He continued to cover
me, and ordered me to drop my 38 so I laid it down. After all, I still
had my bayonet attached, stuck in my rump. The cop walked toward me,
and upon reading the badge maced me right in the eyes.

Fortunately, my Oakley shooting glasses stopped most of the spray and
I was able to rip free of the Taser cords easily. It only cost me one
nipple...easily replaced. I dove for the passenger side of my truck
and began to run zig zag for a ditch. Unfortunately, the bayonet
sticking out of my rump slowed me down. I knew it would have to be
hand-to-hand now.

I knew the cop couldn't take me when I saw he merely carried a Glock
17, not a man's gun. So I immediately threw my eye into his right
hook, followed by a knee into his mag light. As I lay thrashing on the
ground, I took the heel of my Bates enforcer boot and kicked at the
cops ankle. I knew from my classified experiences in Tajikistan that
once I broke his ankle, the cop would fall down and I could "stun
kick" him in the head, knocking him out but not hurting him.

Apparently the cop had also been to Tajikistan too, because he side
stepped me and struck me in the back with his ASP baton, but my trauma
plate absorbed it. I then drew my Benchmade auto knife and was
promptly tased again, but I was ready for it this time and only wet
myself a little bit. Next thing those cops knew, I was unconscious.

That'll teach 'em."
Charlie Wilkes - 19 Mar 2006 04:39 GMT
>Apparently the cop had also been to Tajikistan too, because he side
>stepped me and struck me in the back with his ASP baton, but my trauma
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>That'll teach 'em."

Yeah, that's pretty wicked satire.

I'm in the middle on this issue.  I keep a loaded pistol around, and
if the day ever comes when I hostile individual enters my home with
mayhem in mind, the least I can say is that shots will be fired,
hopefully by me and hopefully at his expense.  I think I will be able
to handle that situation.

As far as going about in public with iron strapped to my chest, good
lord, man.  The time I need it will be the time I'm reaching under the
front passenger seat and feeling around for my cell phone, lulled out
of combat readiness by the incessant banality of life.  So I don't
bother.

Charlie
Miami Jones - 19 Mar 2006 15:40 GMT
"Nomen Nescio"

> You're a fuckin' gun totin, micro penis, psycho, racist, Delta
> team wannabe! <G>

i got your micro penis buddy

> I think it represents the way Lyn views ANYONE
> who would EVER want to be anywhere near one
> of those  EVIL GUNS.

yes! until someone is breaking in on her
--

<snip good cartoon material, especially the subaru>
***************************************

OT: There was a couple guys in florida breaking into houses like this.

you roll up to the target house in the middle of the day in a
construction/service truck

you pull down into the yard up beside the house, close to it.. (make sure
the house is wrapped in vinyl)

with a box opener cut a 2 x 5 foot opening in the vinyl, pop it out...cut
the gyp board and flick it out the way, slap the insulation out the way.
put your foot through the drywall and step through. better hurry if you're
gonna make it to the safe
you never know when the bears might come home.
CatNipped - 20 Mar 2006 15:05 GMT
>> Totally baffling, isn't it?
>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> http://tinyurl.com/b88hz

ROTFLMAOWTIME!  Damn, Barry, and I just replaced the last keyboard you make
me spray coke all over!

Signature

Hugs,

CatNipped

See all my masters at:  http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/

Miami Jones - 23 Mar 2006 06:33 GMT
"CatNipped" <lcrews@houston.rr.com> wrote in >
> > http://tinyurl.com/b88hz
>
> ROTFLMAOWTIME!  Damn, Barry, and I just replaced the last keyboard you make
> me spray coke all over!
>
> --

polease pass the album
Miami Jones - 18 Mar 2006 05:43 GMT
> I have been threatened with guns a few times.

hate it when that happens
Nomen Nescio - 21 Mar 2006 21:20 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: Charlie Wilkes <charlie_wilkes@users.easynews.com>

>I have been threatened with guns a few times, many years ago, and
>looking back on those situations I don't see that I could have done
>much if I'd had a gun myself.  It's what the cop said about 2 seconds
>warning.

But then again, how fast would your reaction time
have to be to punch this "upstanding citizens"
ticket.

http://www.jumpingpixels.com/n.html
Miami Jones - 25 Mar 2006 13:54 GMT
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> http://www.jumpingpixels.com/n.html

http://www.barryparrish.com/rtba/rtba.html

i stole the video, re-encoded it, just so i could have a link to it too
makes me hot too! that could be my little sister in the car

if it was me? I wouldn't even waste a bullet, the first time he walked
in front of my car (talkin bout nigga this and nigga that) like in the
video, I woulda just hit the gas...ooops!
cybercat - 25 Mar 2006 17:27 GMT
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> in front of my car (talkin bout nigga this and nigga that) like in the
> video, I woulda just hit the gas...ooops!

He's mentally ill, for Christ's sake. I would sure want to incapacitate
him so he couldn't hurt anyone, but I don't think that calls for a death
sentence.

That said, I have been thinking about ordering a killer stun gun.
I would have no problem reducing him--or anyone threatening me--
to a quivering mass of  pee-soaked person until the proper
authorities arrived.
Miami Jones - 25 Mar 2006 19:56 GMT
> He's mentally ill, for Christ's sake. I would sure want to incapacitate
> him so he couldn't hurt anyone, but I don't think that calls for a death
> sentence.

who said anything about killing him...hmmm?
Nomen Nescio - 25 Mar 2006 20:50 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: "cybercat" <boagrrl@hotmail.com>

>He's mentally ill, for Christ's sake.

I suppose you could say that about anyone who
considers that behavior to be "recreation".
But I disagree. He knew exactly what he was doing.

>I w