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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2006Best way to convince kitty to eat wet food?
While I'm waiting for Ginger's latest labs, we've switched from Royal Canin Mature 27 to Royal Canin Renal LP. Her labs two or three weeks ago showed elevated creatinine and BUN, so we're looking at CRF. Before the RC, she had been eating Innova, which is quite high in protein and something like 0.9 % phos. Ginger is getting 100 cc's sub-q fluids twice a week. Her kidneys are congenitally about half normal size, so I think it's kind of an uphill battle with her. I'd really like to increase her fluid intake with some canned food. She's never been fed canned food, and she's just not interested in it. I bought some of the RC renal LP pouches, putting out a half a tablespoon of a time. She'll take a couple bites, if she's in the mood, and then leaves the rest. Should I continue with this? Will she gradually eat more? How often should I replace the food? How else can I get her interested in canned food? Thanks, Corey Corey Kaye <ckaye@holly.colostate.eduNOSPAM> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > While I'm waiting for Ginger's latest labs, we've switched from > Royal Canin Mature 27 to Royal Canin Renal LP. Her labs two or [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Corey I tried every renal diet available and Kami would have NONE of it. She LIKES canned food, but there's something about those diets she can't stomach. Renal LP among them. Ask your vet about the Hill's k/d minced chicken. It's the closest to "normal" canned food I've found, though Kami still doesn't like it. Ginger might, though.  SignatureMargarita Salt "...practically no one in the world is entirely bad or entirely good... motives are often more important than actions." -- Eleanore Roosevelt >I'd really like to increase her fluid intake with some canned food. She's >never been fed canned food, and she's just not interested in it. I bought >How else can I get her interested in canned food? When one of my cats doesn't eat his canned, I put a little treat on top or sprinkle some catnip on it; either of those get him going. Some cats like pouch foods but some don't - she may be one of them. Canned is more blended together which some cats prefer. You could try the Hill's k/d "with chicken". There is another canned k/d formula too but the one that says "with chicken" is softer and mushier. The IVD Modified Protein canned food is very high in fat - she may like that. You don't have to feed her the same brand's canned food. If she eats RC LP but won't eat the pouch, it's okay to give her another company's canned food. You could also mix some regular canned non-kidney food in with it at first to see if she likes that, then reduce the regular canned a little bit each day until all you have left eventually is the kidney diet. This is a slower process than just giving her the kidney diet right away but may work better. LMR >You don't have to feed her the >same brand's canned food. If she eats RC LP but won't eat the pouch, it's >okay to give her another company's canned food. RC now owns IVD too. Kelcey > RC now owns IVD too. My bag of Royal Canin has three brands on it: Royal Canin, IVD and Waltham. ;) Corey >My bag of Royal Canin has three brands on it: Royal Canin, IVD and Waltham. Yup, RC acquired Waltham too. Kelcey > When one of my cats doesn't eat his canned, I put a little treat on > top or sprinkle some catnip on it; either of those get him going. I tried the catnip--worked the first time, but hasn't worked since. :( > Some cats like pouch foods but some don't - she may be one of them. > Canned is more blended together which some cats prefer. You could [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > canned food. If she eats RC LP but won't eat the pouch, it's okay to > give her another company's canned food. Thanks for the tips; I'll give those other brands a try. > You could also mix some regular canned non-kidney food in with it at > first to see if she likes that, then reduce the regular canned a > little bit each day until all you have left eventually is the kidney > diet. This is a slower process than just giving her the kidney diet > right away but may work better. Well, she's NEVER eaten canned, so I have doubts if any canned would appeal to her. It's all very frustrating--when she was a kitten, the vets said canned food was Bad News and to only feed dry. Now a lot of the vets I've spoken too say to feed only high-quality wet, and no dry at all. I recall that someone posted the nutritional content of Fancy Feast recently, but can't seem to locate the link. Does anyone have it saved? In addition, she vomited a whole stomach's worth of food after getting her 100cc's of sub-q fluids today. Sigh. I'm looking forward to getting her bloodwork back tomorrow and having a long conversation with my vets. Thanks for the advice, Corey I went through this with my cat (who only had eaten dry), and it was a rough road, but I switched him over to all canned. I'd suggest giving her a high-quality canned diet and skip the renal food. (such as Wellness or Nature's Variety). for tips on switching over, visit my web page. (I'm not a vet. These are my own experiences.) http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/ >rough road, but I switched him over to all canned. I'd suggest giving >her a high-quality canned diet and skip the renal food. (such as >Wellness or Nature's Variety). It's irresponsible to say "skip the renal food" without even knowing anything about this cat's condition! By the way, my sister's 23 year old renal cat is probably still alive due to being fed renal food for the past 10 years. NanCe >> rough road, but I switched him over to all canned. I'd suggest giving >> her a high-quality canned diet and skip the renal food. (such as [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > old renal cat is probably still alive due to being fed renal food for > the past 10 years. Here's a brief run-down on Ginger: She's an 8 year old DSH that, I believe, is highly inbred. I got her from my hay guy, and she has several issues: missing teeth, poor vision, oddly shapped legs and head, and her kidneys are about half normal size. Her creatinine is 3.1, down from 3.7, which is down from 3.9. Her phosphorus levels are low; her calcium levels are slightly elevated. The creatinine labs are at roughly two week intervals. Initial labs were drawn prior to a tooth extraction (one dead tooth in a mouthful of nice healthy ones.) Urine was pulled at the time of the tooth extraction and she was found to have a raging kidney infection, and we put her on 2 weeks of Clavimox. Urine collected after the antibiotics showed nothing abnormal. Two weeks ago, we switched Ginger from Innova dry food to Royal Canin Mature 27, and started with 100cc's sub-q twice a week. She's now eating RC Renal LP. I plan on pulling another set of labs in about a month, to see what direction we're heading. She's acting more like a normal kitty since we resolved the kidney infection and added the fluids. I'm not sure how the food is affecting her, but figure it must be helping her kidneys. She's in good weight--certainly not overweight, but not thin, either. Corey >She's an 8 year old DSH that, I believe, is highly inbred. I got her from >my hay guy, and she has several issues: missing teeth, poor vision, oddly >shapped legs and head, and her kidneys are about half normal size. Ah, poor little girl; just makes her sound more lovable though. >Her creatinine is 3.1, down from 3.7, which is down from 3.9. Her >phosphorus levels are low; her calcium levels are slightly elevated. The [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >found to have a raging kidney infection, and we put her on 2 weeks of >Clavimox. Urine collected after the antibiotics showed nothing abnormal. That's good it's cleared up. >I plan on pulling another set of labs in about a month, to see what >direction we're heading. She's acting more like a normal kitty since we >resolved the kidney infection and added the fluids. I'm not sure how the >food is affecting her, but figure it must be helping her kidneys. Good idea. Who knows, maybe the numbers will have come down now that the kidney infection has been resolved. The fluids and food can be helping too. It'll be interesting to see her numbers next month, bet you can't wait! NanCe > >rough road, but I switched him over to all canned. I'd suggest giving > >her a high-quality canned diet and skip the renal food. (such as [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > NanCe Why would you feed a cat with kidney failure dry food when it already needs extra fluids? My point was that it would be better for this cat to eat a high-quality canned food than a dry food that greatly reduces its fluid intake? Rene >Why would you feed a cat with kidney failure dry food when it already >needs extra fluids? My point was that it would be better for this cat >to eat a high-quality canned food than a dry food that greatly reduces >its fluid intake? It would *not* be better for this cat to eat a regular canned food over a dry renal food. As long as a cat drinks water, a dry food is fine. When it eats canned food, it drinks less water as canned is 70+% moisture. When it eats dry, it drinks more water as dry is only 10% moisture. Therefore, as long as it's water intake is good, dry is fine. Again as an example, my sister's renal cat has been eating dry renal food for 10 years and she only started getting canned renal food a couple of years ago, not to increase her water intake as she is a good drinker, but because she likes canned. By the way not sure why you suggested Wellness or Nature's Variety instead of a canned renal food. They are not made for renal disease. NanCe Quoted from http://www.felinecrf.org/nutritional_requirements.htm#dry_v_wet_food: As desert animals, healthy cats do not naturally drink a lot, instead they obtain moisture from their prey (a mouse, for example, is around 65-70% water); and whilst cats who eat dry food do tend to drink more than cats fed on wet food, they simply cannot take in as much moisture overall as a cat fed on tinned food. This was known back in 1986, when the US Board of Agriculture stated in an article entitled Nutrient Requirements of Cats. More recently, an article entitled The carnivore connection to nutrition in cats (no abstract provided, but the document may be found here, or here in pdf format) (2002) Zoran D Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 221 pp1559-67 states: "cats eating commercial dry foods will consume approximately half the amount of water (in their diet and through drinking), compared with cats eating canned foods... In older cats that tend to produce urine with a lower concentration, an increase in water consumption becomes even more important to avoid dehydration and development of prerenal azotaemia". Quoted from http://www.felinecrf.org/nutritional_requirements.htm#dry_v_wet_food: As desert animals, healthy cats do not naturally drink a lot, instead they obtain moisture from their prey (a mouse, for example, is around 65-70% water); and whilst cats who eat dry food do tend to drink more than cats fed on wet food, they simply cannot take in as much moisture overall as a cat fed on tinned food. This was known back in 1986, when the US Board of Agriculture stated in an article entitled Nutrient Requirements of Cats. More recently, an article entitled The carnivore connection to nutrition in cats (no abstract provided, but the document may be found here, or here in pdf format) (2002) Zoran D Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 221 pp1559-67 states: "cats eating commercial dry foods will consume approximately half the amount of water (in their diet and through drinking), compared with cats eating canned foods... In older cats that tend to produce urine with a lower concentration, an increase in water consumption becomes even more important to avoid dehydration and development of prerenal azotaemia". yep. Wet food is healthier all the way around. I can see the results of cutting out dry food. >"cats eating commercial dry foods will consume approximately half the >amount of water (in their diet and through drinking), compared with >cats eating canned foods... In older cats that tend to produce urine >with a lower concentration, an increase in water consumption becomes >even more important to avoid dehydration and development of prerenal >azotaemia". Well, eating dry renal food certainly never hurt my sister's cat; 23 is a ripe old age and she's still doing fine. If you believe his cat should eat canned, that's fine, but you didn't suggest a canned renal food to him - you suggested Wellness or Nature's Recipe. Those were not made for renal disease and why anyone would suggest them to someone with a cat in possible renal failure is beyond me. NanCe > "cats eating commercial dry foods will consume approximately half the > amount of water (in their diet and through drinking), compared with > cats eating canned foods... In older cats that tend to produce urine > with a lower concentration, an increase in water consumption becomes > even more important to avoid dehydration and development of prerenal > azotaemia". ...which is why Ginger is getting sub-q fluids ;) She also drinks well. Corey > I went through this with my cat (who only had eaten dry), and it was a > rough road, but I switched him over to all canned. I'd suggest giving [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://community-2.webtv.net/getcathelp/tucker/ Interesting reading! Unfortunately, there's just no way I could do that. I have several other cats that do very well on Innova dry food. I think I'm giving up trying to get Ginger to eat wet food. She's just not interested, and her bloodwork is continually improving with just the renal diet and fluids. Corey |
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