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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / January 2006Caliccivirus
I have a 4-year old Maine Coon that I adopted from a cat shelter about a year ago. He was only at the shelter for one week before I adopted him, but he has had one thing after another since bringing him home. Of course, I did take him to the vet the first week I got him and the vet warned me that many of these shelter kitties get various diseases from being in the shelter. Well, sure enough. We had ear infections - not mites, just crud. We had eye infections. We even had a sinus infection. Then all was calm until September. We had some windows replaced and kitty started limping. I thought he stepped on something from the carpenters. Took him to the vet - an infection on the pad of his rear foot. Treated that and it went away. Christmas he turns up with a red ulceration on the corner of his lips. The vet said it was a virus. So I did some online research and this sure sounds like caliccivirus. Have any of you had experience with this? Does is ever go away? Or does it keep popping up whenever he gets stressed from something? He appears to be a very laid back, easy going guy. Not the type to stress over anything. The vet thought the stress of Christmas made him have this outbreak. We didn't even have anyone over, so the only stress he would have had would have been a Christmas tree. He is an indoor kitty and the only one. So he isn't getting infected from another kitty. > I have a 4-year old Maine Coon that I adopted from a cat shelter about > a year ago. He was only at the shelter for one week before I adopted [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > He is an indoor kitty and the only one. So he isn't getting infected > from another kitty. Most likely not Feline Calici Virus. Probably eosinophilic granuloma complex. Calicivirus almost always goes along with illness - upper respiratory symptoms of either high or low severity are almost always seen. Sometimes it can present as limping in a cat that otherwise seems sickly, but since your vet found a pad infection, I wouldn't contribute the limping to Calicivirus. Look up EGC on the 'net and look at representative photos of the lesions - they are usually found on the mouth, lips and chin but can present anywhere. Also they are sometimes called "rodent ulcers". They are usually treated with injectible prednisone, and it is a disease for which there is no cure, although contributing factors can be identified. -L. Gross. My kitty's lesions are not that profound. They actually look like I would expect an ulcer to look like and the one he has now is on both the upper and lower lip on one side. The vet said it was a virus but also had a bacterial infection [was yellow crusted] from rubbing it on things. He hasn't had fleas since I have had him and his skin and coat look very healthy. Strange. > Gross. My kitty's lesions are not that profound. They actually look > like I would expect an ulcer to look like and the one he has now is on > both the upper and lower lip on one side. The vet said it was a virus > but also had a bacterial infection [was yellow crusted] from rubbing it > on things. He hasn't had fleas since I have had him and his skin and > coat look very healthy. Strange. any chance of getting a picture of the ulcer and posting it? You can put it on alt.binaries.pictures.animals if you have no where else to post it. W > Gross. My kitty's lesions are not that profound. They actually look > like I would expect an ulcer to look like and the one he has now is on > both the upper and lower lip on one side. The vet said it was a virus > but also had a bacterial infection [was yellow crusted] from rubbing it > on things. He hasn't had fleas since I have had him and his skin and > coat look very healthy. Strange. Do the lesions look like any of these: http://www.maxshouse.com/Dermatology-Illus/Eosinophilic_granuloma_on_chin.jpg http://www.maxshouse.com/Dermatology-Illus/Eosinophilic_granuloma_on_upper_lip.jpg http://www.maxshouse.com/Dermatology-Illus/Rodent_Ulcer.jpg Phil Phil They look slightly like the last two of three. But his are not swollen. He has had this on the corner of his mouth since Christmas. It has decreased in size- about half, but isn't gone. It no longer has the yellow crust. The vet only gave him an anti-inflamatory shot and told me to clean it with peroxide for 10 days. And that 10 days is over. I don't think I can get a picture of it - he isn't crazy about me touching it. Maybe it is EGC. But his isn't as swollen as the pictures. > Phil > They look slightly like the last two of three. But his are not [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > touching it. Maybe it is EGC. But his isn't as swollen as the > pictures. They don't always present as swollen. I wouldn't treat it with peroxide more than once - peroxide will kill the new tissue that is forming. The fact that it is on upper and lower lips indicates to me that it might be EGC. When my Mimi gets it, it just looks like a crusty scrape and it can takle a couple of weeks to improve. I would seek a second opinion from a feline specialist (or even just another regular vet) if you can afford to do so. But if you do, be sure to tell them how you have been treating it as peroxide will alter the healing and appearance of the lesion. -L. So, do these just go away on their own? I only used peroxide once a day for about 8 days- he started running from me - not wanting it anymore. You mentioned prednisone - I hate to start that on a cat that is only 4. Isn't that tough on the kidneys, etc.? A crusty scrape is what Buddy's looks like, too. Unfortunately, I live about 45 minutes from a larger city. We only have this one vet in the area without driving that far. I just got home from the grocery and noticed that Buddy was chewing on a plastic bag, before I could put everything away. I have seen him do this before, but didn't think much of it. Now I am wondering if this might be the cause of the ulcerations on his lips? > I just got home from the grocery and noticed that Buddy was chewing on > a plastic bag, before I could put everything away. I have seen him do > this before, but didn't think much of it. Now I am wondering if this > might be the cause of the ulcerations on his lips? Very possibly. It still sounds like EGC to me - I'd get to a different vet asap. good luck, -L. > So, do these just go away on their own? I only used peroxide once a > day for about 8 days- he started running from me - not wanting it > anymore. You mentioned prednisone - I hate to start that on a cat that > is only 4. Isn't that tough on the kidneys, etc.? No one really knows the cause of EGC except that it is a virus that never goes away and can stay latent for years. Some think it is autoimmune in nature, others think it is an allergic reaction. Some things that trigger it in some cats is plastic dining bowls, fleas, dander, or other animals (birds, dogs). > A crusty scrape is what Buddy's looks like, too. Unfortunately, I live > about 45 minutes from a larger city. We only have this one vet in the > area without driving that far. I would drive the 45 minutes to get a proper diagnosis. An injectible steriod is needed to control it if it is in fact EGC. -L. > So, do these just go away on their own? I only used peroxide once a > day for about 8 days- he started running from me - not wanting it > anymore. Overuse of peroxide kills the healthy tissue that is growing. peroxide should really only be used to flush a wound initially. >You mentioned prednisone - I hate to start that on a cat that > is only 4. Isn't that tough on the kidneys, etc.? Following up my own posts - I had a brain fart... Prolonged and/or repeated use of corticosteriods (like depo medrol) can cause kidney and liver damage but you have to weigh the pros and cons of its usage. My cat first presented with EGC at 10 weeks old and is now 15, almost 16 years old, having had shots of depo infrequently throughout her life to control her EGC. Infrequent use to control a disease like EGC is safe for most cats. It is the only treatment I have found that has worked. You also need to see what may be contributing to the outbreaks. For my cat, fleas, fish-based cat foods (salmon) and plastic bowls are the problem, but if I rinse the bowls in bleach water and let them dry 48 hours to liberate the bleach, they are not a problem. -L. > You also need to see what may be contributing to the outbreaks. For my > cat, fleas, fish-based cat foods (salmon) and plastic bowls are the > problem, but if I rinse the bowls in bleach water and let them dry 48 > hours to liberate the bleach, they are not a problem. > > -L. Sorry folks...wuuuh wuuuh I don't feel so good I have liberated too much bleach? wuuuh wwwwuuuuh bruuuuuick rrrroooooooommee Hmmm. He doesn't eat any fishy food, his dishes are ceramic and put in the dishwasher daily, and he hasn't had fleas since I have had him - about a year. I have to wonder if this periodic chewing plastic bags might be setting it off. I will be more diligent about this and see what happens. I have never had a cat interested in chewing plastic bags! But he is definitely drawn to them. > Hmmm. He doesn't eat any fishy food, his dishes are ceramic and put in > the dishwasher daily, and he hasn't had fleas since I have had him - > about a year. I have to wonder if this periodic chewing plastic bags > might be setting it off. I will be more diligent about this and see > what happens. I have never had a cat interested in chewing plastic > bags! But he is definitely drawn to them. Ignore some of these posts supposedly written by me - I am being impersonated. :) The plastic bags very definitely could be causing the reaction, but it can be from most anything. Othe suspects are household cleaners, plants and certain other food items (grains). -L. Barry wrote: > Sorry folks...wuuuh wuuuh > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > bruuuuuick > rrrroooooooommee Barry, you're being a dick. -L. > Barry, you're being a dick. > -L. Bar. Hon! Nice try! don't you have anything better to do? A nym shifting troll. See also: "-L." <bigbadbarry adelphia.net> "a christmas tree"... "abRokeNegRo"... "bag-o-switches"... "black-ip" "chickenwing"... "coffeedog"... "johndoeisadick"... "Levon"... "Mr Tibbs"... "Prozack"... "wannabe"... "watermelon"... "whitershadeofpale"... > Path: newssvr14.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm04.news.prodigy.com!newsdst01.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail > From: "-L." <bigbadbarry adelphia.net> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > bruuuuuick > rrrroooooooommee > A nym shifting troll. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > "watermelon"... > "whitershadeofpale"... hahahaha you said johndoeisadick!!!! aaaahhhh ha > Phil > They look slightly like the last two of three. But his are not > swollen. EGC/Rodent ulcers aren't always swollen- they look something like a slightly raised scab or harden burst blister. I can't find a picture of a calicivirus ulcer on the lip- but I have a picture of a cat with one on the foreleg. Let me know if it looks like this: http://www.maxshouse.com/Dermatology-Illus/Calcivirusulcer.jpg He has had this on the corner of his mouth since Christmas. > It has decreased in size- about half, but isn't gone. It no longer has > the yellow crust. The vet only gave him an anti-inflamatory shot and > told me to clean it with peroxide for 10 days. And that 10 days is > over. I think you should get a second opinion before using hydrogen peroxide again- it will prevent the ulcer from healing if you keep using it. Phil It is really hard to tell from these pictures. I guess the best explanation in a scabby scrap. It has decreased in size tremendously this week. Has no scab on it. Basically just a small red spot about 1/8 the size it was weeks ago. It has been a couple of weeks since I used peroxide. Sharon
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