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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / December 2005Will cats in same litter mate, and when?
My six kittens born on August 7 will be spayed/neutered the week of February 7. Six months is the time I have had kittens neutered in the past, and six months is the earliest that my vet wants to do it. My questions are, what is the earliest age at which cats can mate, and do cats in the same litter, that have always been intimately together, tend to avoid mating with each other, or is a mating impulse among them likely to appear before six months? Among these six, I think only one is femele, though I need to verify a couple of them before being positive. Should I separate her from the males at some time before they reach the age of six months? That would be very inconvenient and anguishing, but I will do it if necessary. -cr > My six kittens born on August 7 will be spayed/neutered the week of > February 7. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > -cr Cats can mate at about 5 months of age, possibly even 4. It depends. And, yes, they can mate with their littermates and probably will. Most vets are more than willing to neuter before 6 mos. of age nowadays. I would think your vet would prefer to do that rather than have more kittens, who would also be inbred and could have problems resulting from that, born. You should at least get the females done before then to avoid this. My current girl kitty went into heat at 5 months old. I, too, was waiting until she was 6 mos. old to get her spayed. She's an indoor cat and had no access to unneutered males but I still felt bad that she had to go through a heat unnecessarily. It's best for their health to never have a heat. Candace > Cats can mate at about 5 months of age, possibly even 4. It depends. > And, yes, they can mate with their littermates and probably will. Most > vets are more than willing to neuter before 6 mos. of age nowadays. ... Thanks for the information. These six are four months and four days old today (18 weeks exactly). My only other female (nine years old) had already been spayed 2 years before I inherited her, so I don't know what the signs of being in heat are. Are they so obvious that I would be able to catch her in time to avoid mating, or would it already be too late? The reason my vet says he does not like to neuter before six months is that it can weaken a cat's immune system, leading to greater chances of problems later. When I talked to my vet about it, I was using the word 'neutering' to refer to both males and females. Later I learned that the word applies only to males. So my vet may have thought I was asking him only about neutering males. I will try to get that cleared up very soon. Maybe he has a different preference concerning spaying females. At any rate, I will do whatever it takes to prevent inbreeding or any other mating involving these kittens. -cr > The reason my vet says he does not like to neuter before six months is > that it can weaken a cat's immune system, leading to greater chances of > problems later. I hope Phil weighs in on this. I did find: A growing number of veterinarians are sterilizing pets between 3-5 months, so please check with your veterinarian first. As for heat, yes, it's very obvious (the one time Pudge was in heat, she'd jump on the dining room table and roll over back and forth, back and forth, yowling and chirping like a maniac), but I'm not sure the beginning is obvious enough to you so that you'll catch it in time. I'm guessing that a male would get a whiff of smell and behaviour changes before you would. He's got the nose to, and he's programmed to. > When I talked to my vet about it, I was using the word 'neutering' to > refer to both males and females. Later I learned that the word applies > only to males. So my vet may have thought I was asking him only > about neutering males. I will try to get that cleared up very soon. > Maybe he has a different preference concerning spaying females. If you don't want to separate them (which might be stressful for them anyway), I think you need to weigh the seemingly minimal risks of early spay/neuter against the substantial ones of waiting. Just my two cents.  SignatureWeb site: http://www.slywy.com/ Message board: http://www.slywy.com/phpBB2/ Journal: http://slywy.blogspot.com/ http://www.fanciers.com/cat-faqs/health-care.shtml scroll down and read about neutering on the above link Most Vets are either stuck in the ways, uninformed or unwilling to change. There has been studies about the early neutering and the studies have positive results. Here is Phil's sites information he is one of the most informed people out here and I value his opinion. http://www.maxshouse.com/spaying_and_neutering.htm Check the rest of the site out is it most informative. Our precious who just passed away ( may we see her at the bridge ) at almost 20 years of age was fixed at 15 weeks when she started showing signs of going in heat the only thing she had wrong with her is that she got old fart syndrome near the end. Her brother and sister that both lived to 17 and 18 were fixed at the same time same thing no problems except they got old and left us. :-( ( till we see them at the bridge) >> The reason my vet says he does not like to neuter before six months is >> that it can weaken a cat's immune system, leading to greater chances of [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > anyway), I think you need to weigh the seemingly minimal risks of early > spay/neuter against the substantial ones of waiting. Just my two cents. "It's best for their health to never have a heat." Candace Why? I might have thought the opposite. Is it because hormones are obviously released into their systems? That can be good or bad? In humans, it's both. These links and posts have been convincing that I need to act right away, so I'll call the vet tomorrow. The 18 weeks (4 months 4 days) old female is a little smaller than the males. She doesn't usually eat as much as they do, though she always has an appetite, and they have a large variety of food. The only reason for mentioning this is wondering if faster growing females reach fertility quicker than slower growing ones. It would be nice to at least wait until after Christmas to have the female spayed. She wont be five months old until January 7. -cr > These links and posts have been convincing that I need to act right > away, so [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > -cr Around here most vets wait until the cat is 5 lbs. or 6 mos. which ever comes first. If you decide to get your girl spayed now make sure the vet you select does early spays regularly and is experienced working on the little ones. > If you decide to get your girl spayed now make sure the vet you select does > early spays regularly and is experienced working on the little ones. The cat is only 4 months and 5 days old, but since people have said that she may go into heat at 5 months, I'm looking at the week after Christmas for hopefully spaying. But I wont change vets for this purpose. If my vet refuses to spay before the first heat then I will isolate her from the others from just before probable heat until six months. That will be agony for everyone, but better than changing vets at this point. I'm still not sure when is the point at which the cat should be either spayed or isolated. I really would like to wait until right after Christmas if that is reasonable. On December 27, she will be four months and 20 days old. -cr >> If you decide to get your girl spayed now make sure the vet you select >> does [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > -cr How much does she weigh? > > My six kittens born on August 7 will be spayed/neutered the week of > > February 7. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Candace I recall they were able to do it as early as six weeks in some cases. But regards inbreeding - it's a 25% chance that recessives will be reinforced and result in deformation. > But regards inbreeding - it's a 25% chance that recessives will be > reinforced and result in deformation. Just to reitterate, there will be no inbreeding in this case. All six kittens will be spay/neutered at 5 months (Jan 3 & 5), and if the female shows signs of heat before that, she will be spayed immediately. -cr > My six kittens born on August 7 will be spayed/neutered the week of > February 7. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > My questions are, what is the earliest age at which cats can mate, I'm sorry, but these are the most ridiculous questions that I've ever read in any NG anywhere. <I can't help myself... I've got to be sarcastic....> > and > do [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > to > appear before six months? No, azzhole... They have a strong moral code instilled by devout affiliation with powerful religious and nurtured family teachings that stretch back thousands of f.cking years, so they 'won't mess around with siss'. Even if they're father was an 'alley cat'. LOL...! IBen > I'm sorry, ... No problem. Have a nice day. -cr Ok, this is the plan, for anyone interested. I talked to my vet, and he said he has no problem with spaying the female at five months, and he prefers to go ahead and neuter the males at that time too. The female will be spayed on January 3, and the males will be neutered on January 5. If the female shows signs of heat before that week, we will schedule an immediate spaying. The vet doubts that the female will begin a cycle before five months, though he said it does happen. He also said that larger females generally start at a younger age than smaller ones, and mine is the smallest cat in the litter. About what he told me previously concerning early spay/neuter weakening immune systems, he said he was referring to very early spay/neuter that shelters often do. -cr > Ok, this is the plan, for anyone interested. I talked to my vet, and > he said [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > -cr Sounds like a plan. You could always start with the girl and then spread out the neutering over a little time if it's financially easier..... once your girl is done you do have a little time to play with. W > You could always start with the girl and then spread out the neutering over > a little time if it's financially easier..... once your girl is done you do > have a little time to play with. The vet prefers the way we planned it, and in this case it doesn't matter whether the expense comes all at once or spread out. -cr > > Ok, this is the plan, for anyone interested. I talked to my vet, and > > he said [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > W or ... If they are indoor only it should be safe to shorten the guys first; Ron's Rule-Of -Thumb : If you neuter a male before he starts spraying he'll never start but if you neuter him after he starts spraying he'll never stop. YMMV ron > ... If you neuter a male before he starts spraying he'll > never start but if you neuter him after he starts spraying > he'll never stop. My data on the subject: A cat neutered at 8 months had started spraying but he stopped. A stray neutered after adulthood sprayed very much less, but has never really stopped. Two cats neutered at 6 months never started spraying. These males will be neutered at 5 months so I don't expect any spraying. -cr > About what he told me previously concerning early spay/neuter weakening > immune systems, he said he was referring to very early spay/neuter > that shelters often do. Well, he's wrong. There is absolutely NO evidence that early spay/neuter has any harmful effects. Ask him for a journal reference for his statements. He won't produce one because there isn't one. I am glad you will be getting these kittens neutered asap. As long as they weigh 2lbs or more, they can be neutered safely. -L. I believe it is early as 7 weeks that can perform the procedure and ignore IBEN he is a moron that just try's to stir up sh@t >> About what he told me previously concerning early spay/neuter weakening >> immune systems, he said he was referring to very early spay/neuter [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > they weigh 2lbs or more, they can be neutered safely. > -L. > > I'm sorry, ... > > No problem. Good! I didn't think so. But no matter... YOU just keep on trying to figure out the difference between kats and people. You gotta long way to traverse there, bub... IBen > Good! I didn't think so. But no matter... YOU just keep on trying to > figure out the difference between kats and people. You gotta long way > to traverse there, bub... Thanks for continuing to give me the benefit of your wisdom and advice. -cr > > Good! I didn't think so. But no matter... YOU just keep on trying to > > figure out the difference between kats and people. You gotta long way [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -cr Really...? How about to the point where you wish to your heart and soul and with every fibre in your being that I were dead? IBen > cr wrote: > > Thanks for continuing to give me the benefit of your wisdom > > and advice. > Really...? How about to the point where you wish to your > heart and soul and with every fibre in your being that I were > dead? Well, facing the truth and heeding good advice are not often easy, but if you have either one to offer, then go for it. -cr > > cr wrote: > > > Thanks for continuing to give me the benefit of your wisdom [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > -cr Then... go back and readdress my first post on your idiotic topic, Cal... Since you never did. Your entire premise for this thread is NUTTY. Explain to me WHY you would think for one second that kitties from the same little would not mate with one another. To the point of having to ask about it, I mean.. How stupid can you get? What kind of question was that? Were you for real, or is this just a prank...? Tell IBen ALLL about it, Cal.... IBen Getiner > Then... go back and readdress my first post on your idiotic topic, > Cal... Since you never did. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > IBen Getiner many animals do not practice incest it is a valid question! > ... Explain to me WHY you > would think for one second that kitties from the same little would not > mate with one another. ... I was pretty sure that older cats from the same litter would mate, but my concern was whether or not they would mate before the age of six months, the planned time for spaying and neutering. It was not that I thought they had religious concerns about incest, or that I thought animals had any concept of siblinghood, but it was conceivable to me that there could be a built-in instinct against it at such an early age. There are, after all, many instincts being expressed by both mother and kittens during the first few months. That's not to claim that my unsureness was correct, but it doesn't seem to me all that nutty to simply ask about it. Wishful thinking also might have had a part in my asking, because it certainly would have been nice not to have to worry about it before the planned time of spaying/neutering, six months being the time my vet had said he wanted to do it. He has now changed to five months as a result of concerns I acquired from this thread, and talked to him about. I hope this explanation is sufficient. -cr
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