Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / November 2005
Jekyll/Hyde
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Richard Evans - 21 Nov 2005 18:43 GMT I recently took into foster care a half-Siamese female, declawed on the front. She has a real Jekyll/Hyde personality. One minute she is all cuddles and purring, then out of the blue she bites hard enough to draw blood. Two minutes later she's back to cuddling and purring.
I've had fosters that bit out of shyness or fear, and even ones that that were just generally aggressive, but this is the first with such a two-faced personality.
I can't in good conscience offer her for adoption while she's like this, Any suggestions?
cybercat - 21 Nov 2005 18:48 GMT > I recently took into foster care a half-Siamese female, declawed on > the front. She has a real Jekyll/Hyde personality. One minute she is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that were just generally aggressive, but this is the first with such a > two-faced personality. I assume you are familiar with the correlation between declawed cats and biting, right? And this poor girl is part Siamese, too. They can be really moody.
> I can't in good conscience offer her for adoption while she's like > this, Any suggestions? Many of us have had and loved psycho kitties for years. I had one for 20 years. Do you plan on fostering her for long enough to train her not to bite?
Richard Evans - 21 Nov 2005 20:02 GMT >I assume you are familiar with the correlation between declawed >cats and biting, right? Anecdotally, yes.
>Many of us have had and loved psycho kitties for years. I had one >for 20 years. I've been fostering for about ten years and five of my six personal cats were former fosters who were hard to place for one reason or another. I simply can't absorb an unlimited number of difficult cases. Every one I keep is one less I can foster.
Furthermore, though you and I may be able to tolerate eccentric behavior, most potential adopters won't.
>Do you plan on fostering her for long enough to >train her not to bite? Yes, that's why I'm asking for advice on how to train her. Over the years I've trained some real hard cases, but nothing like this one. I have more scars from her in a month than from all previous fosters combined.
cybercat - 21 Nov 2005 20:24 GMT > >Many of us have had and loved psycho kitties for years. I had one > >for 20 years. > > I've been fostering for about ten years and five of my six personal > cats were former fosters who were hard to place for one reason or > another. I simply can't absorb an unlimited number of difficult cases. I did not mean to suggest that you should keep her. I just meant that it is possible to keep and love these cats. I was not sure you knew that.
> Furthermore, though you and I may be able to tolerate eccentric > behavior, most potential adopters won't. Very true. These cats need special people who are willing to work with them.
> >Do you plan on fostering her for long enough to > >train her not to bite? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have more scars from her in a month than from all previous fosters > combined. I cannot recommend my means of getting my cat to stop biting me to the bone (literally) out of the blue, because I have been told that it is abusive. But it really did work. She wound up biting very gently and stopping that as soon as she heard "OW." Then she would lick me like "oo, sorry, sorry ..."
I believe something similar is the old loud "OW" and withdrawal. But I am not sure if she would have to be attached in order for that to work.
(My allegedly abusive way was to swat her--very gently, like a tap--in the side of the face and yell "OW." It did not hurt her but it startled her enough that she stopped the dangerous biting. I referred to this as a "slap" in other posts, and so it did sound bad. She actually continued to bite, but just to the point before it broke the skin. Then I'd say "OW, she would anticipate a swat, and lick me instead. I think this is essentially what a mama cat would do--swat, that is--if a baby got too rambunctious. But I am not really sure now if I was being abusive or not, since so many say I was.)
Richard Evans - 21 Nov 2005 21:17 GMT >I cannot recommend my means of getting my cat to stop>biting me to the bone (literally) out of the blue, because I have >been told that it is abusive. But it really did work. She wound >up biting very gently and stopping that as soon as she heard >"OW." Then she would lick me like "oo, sorry, sorry ..." Abuse is relative and I have no qualms about swatting her. I have another decalw here who was given to mild biting when I got her and she finally got over it by plying her with Pounce treats and encouraging her to associate treats with touching. The process was slow but painless, This latest one is anything but painless and I'm not sure how much blood I'm willing to donate to the cause. (She doesn't care for treats, so I have nothing to bribe her with.)
Willow - 21 Nov 2005 21:40 GMT Get a little mouse with a jiggle in it..
My siamese (who didn't like treats all that much either) loved to chase those around.. when he clawed the furniture I would trow it around to distract him.. it worked.. mostly..
 Signature Will~
"... so that's how liberty ends, in a round of applause."
Queen Amidala, The revenge of the Syth.
> >I cannot recommend my means of getting my cat to stop>biting me to the bone (literally) out of the blue, because I have > >been told that it is abusive. But it really did work. She wound [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > not sure how much blood I'm willing to donate to the cause. (She > doesn't care for treats, so I have nothing to bribe her with.) Richard Evans - 22 Nov 2005 00:25 GMT >Get a little mouse with a jiggle in it.. I tried a peaock feather and it scared the bejeezus out of her.
Willow - 22 Nov 2005 19:06 GMT LOL Poor baby..
Stuffed catnip toy? That's a favorite here and isn't too intimidating.. the idea is to distract the cat.. anything the cat's interested in would work..
 Signature Will~
"... so that's how liberty ends, in a round of applause."
Queen Amidala, The revenge of the Syth.
> >Get a little mouse with a jiggle in it.. > > I tried a peaock feather and it scared the bejeezus out of her. cybercat - 22 Nov 2005 19:11 GMT > LOL Poor baby.. > > Stuffed catnip toy? That's a favorite here and isn't too intimidating.. the > idea is to distract the cat.. anything the cat's interested in would work.. If she is the kind of cat that is drawn to catnip, that might do the trick. Fatcat Toys has a brand of catnip that seems to affect my girls more than any other. I love their toys, too.
http://fatcats.com/html_site/hhome.shtml
cybercat - 21 Nov 2005 22:15 GMT > >I cannot recommend my means of getting my cat to stop>biting me to the bone (literally) out of the blue, because I have > >been told that it is abusive. But it really did work. She wound > >up biting very gently and stopping that as soon as she heard > >"OW." Then she would lick me like "oo, sorry, sorry ..." > > Abuse is relative and I have no qualms about swatting her. I must admit, it was a reflex more than anything else, but it did work. The positive reinforcement came the first time she eased up and "kissed" me in what I took as an apologetic way, because I thought it was really cute and loved her up and gave her treats. In my heart of hearts I don't think it was abusive, as I have never been the type to want to hurt or frighten those I love.
I have
> another decalw here who was given to mild biting when I got her and > she finally got over it by plying her with Pounce treats and > encouraging her to associate treats with touching. The process was > slow but painless, This latest one is anything but painless and I'm > not sure how much blood I'm willing to donate to the cause. (She > doesn't care for treats, so I have nothing to bribe her with.) She has to like something! lol!! Catnip, maybe? Canned tuna?! Every cat has her price. How long has she been with you? It might just take you a bit longer to get to know her.
jmc - 21 Nov 2005 21:26 GMT Suddenly, without warning, cybercat exclaimed (21-Nov-05 8:24 PM):
>>>Many of us have had and loved psycho kitties for years. I had one >>>for 20 years. [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > But I am not really sure now if I was being abusive or not, > since so many say I was.) I wouldn't say this is abusive, if it was light enough to only startle her. If she ran off frightened, then obviously it'd be too strong a 'swat'. I used to do something similar - a strong tap with two fingers - when Meep was a kitten. It worked very well without frightening her, and she hasn't seriously threatened to bite me in years. She's very cute, because if she does think of biting me - a quick head motion is my only clue - she starts madly licking me instead.
jmc
cybercat - 21 Nov 2005 22:21 GMT > I wouldn't say this is abusive, if it was light enough to only startle > her. If she ran off frightened, then obviously it'd be too strong a > 'swat'. No, she didn't run away. What she did was let go, then sit there and look at me, very surprised, and made a cat sound that might translate into "you bitch!" She never looked cowed or afraid. This was a very vocal cat, I think she may have had some Siamese in her too, she was a lilac cream tortoiseshell with a lot of blonde and a flat, wedge-shaped head like many Siamese cats.
>I used to do something similar - a strong tap with two fingers > - when Meep was a kitten. It worked very well without frightening her, > and she hasn't seriously threatened to bite me in years. She's very > cute, because if she does think of biting me - a quick head motion is my > only clue - she starts madly licking me instead. Aw, that really is so cute, isn't it?
minerva.phoenix@gmail.com - 21 Nov 2005 22:49 GMT I have a siamese who had a serious biting problem. I truly believe he never stopped playing rough. His owner died when he was almos 2 years old and he spent a long time by himself until we adopted him. He is extremely moody and would attack when 'upset' - kind of like a revenge. He loved to attack our legs.
Anyway, 6 months have passed and his attacks have been reduced to a minimal (1 every 3 weeks). I have to say that the few attacs that still happen are very mild (not really complete :) ) . Most of the times they are my own fault (when I overpet or hold him when he doesn't want!) . My 'technique' consisted of saying "No" and then putting him in a closed room for five minutes. The funny thing is that the last time he started to attack me, he gave up and went straight to the room and stayed there. So, I guess he is getting it! I think the attacks would have completely disappeared if it wasn't for the fact that he is on a diet and a little moody.
I have been reading a lot on how to discipline cats without scaring them. It is quite challenging, no?
Anyway, this cat is the most darling cat I ever met. He gives little kisses, rubs his head on us, greet us when we arrive, talks with me for minutes, loves to sit by our side, etc. He is extremely smart and real fun to watch. So, I belive that the minimal he deserves is a little patience. After all, he spent so much time without being paid much attention.
Minerva
Lumpy - 22 Nov 2005 00:01 GMT > Anyway, this cat is the most darling cat I ever met. He gives little > kisses, rubs his head on us, greet us when we arrive, talks with me for > minutes, loves to sit by our side, etc. He is extremely smart and real > fun to watch. So, I belive that the minimal he deserves is a little > patience. After all, he spent so much time without being paid much > attention. He sounds just wonderful. I'd love to see some pictures.
Diane - 22 Nov 2005 01:26 GMT > Anyway, 6 months have passed and his attacks have been reduced to a > minimal (1 every 3 weeks). I have to say that the few attacs that > still happen are very mild (not really complete :) ) . Hodge's attacks (he chases or stalks) are also much less frequent, and while some are still somewhat serious (I've got a few healing wounds now), they are not the furious latch on and dig deep ones he used to try all the time. I don't know if I can ever trust him, but I have to say there is improvement. And hope. Most of the time his attacks are still spontaneous and unprovoked, but he does get a look in his eye.
> times they are my own fault (when I overpet or hold him when he doesn't > want!) . My 'technique' consisted of saying "No" and then putting him > in a closed room for five minutes. Yes, I found NOT overreacting and being calm (no matter how much I was bleeding) made a big difference. Somewhere on my computer I have a photo of me holding a paper towel that was literally dripping blood because he'd managed to slice a spider vein on the back of my knee which, unbeknownst to me at first, was spurting blood whenever I walked on that leg. I felt it just as it hit my ankle.
> The funny thing is that the last > time he started to attack me, he gave up and went straight to the room > and stayed there. Hodge has done that -- broken off attacks when he realised I'd noticed he was coming. He's not entirely stupid. :)
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idontmind@gmail.com - 22 Nov 2005 02:00 GMT > I cannot recommend my means of getting my cat to stop > biting me to the bone (literally) out of the blue, because I have [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > But I am not really sure now if I was being abusive or not, > since so many say I was.) It wasn't a "tap" the first time you posted about it - it was a "slap across the chops":
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pets.cats.health+behav/msg/7e4b46e3ebbabe55?d mode=source&hl=en
Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.s tanford.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!small1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.gigane ws.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampaba y.rr.com!twister.southeast.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail From: "Mary" <rose...@email.com> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav References: <c7b085a.0312060012.34246d8c@posting.google.com> <20031206041233.28615.00000291@mb-m01.aol.com> <%TmAb.114761$3l5.1419728@wagner.videotron.net> <vSoAb.1501$Ho3.1260@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: I'm at wit's end with my cat... Lines: 20 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: <JysAb.85497$Vu5.4683588@twister.southeast.rr.com> Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 22:16:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.26.242.227 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.southeast.rr.com 1070748969 66.26.242.227 (Sat, 06 Dec 2003 17:16:09 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 17:16:09 EST Organization: Road Runner - NC
> In article <%TmAb.114761$3l5.1419...@wagner.videotron.net>, > "ChakaShiva" <chakash...@yahoo.ca> wrote: > > > So what do you do when he's got his teeth sunk deep into your hand and won't
> > let go? > > Talk him gently out of it? Please. In this case you are allowed to slap the cat right across the chops. I had a hard biter--for two months. When she bit me, I yelled "OW!" and slapped her. Then I had a cat that gave me sweet little love bites and licked me as soon as she heard "OW." for 20 years.
It should go without saying that I did not slap her hard enough to hurt her. But there, I've said it anyway.
**end paste
Evidently you now realize what you did was abusive and wrong, and now you have revised it into a "tap". Guilt has a way of doing that to people.
-L.
cybercat - 22 Nov 2005 04:24 GMT > > I cannot recommend my means of getting my cat to stop > > biting me to the bone (literally) out of the blue, because I have [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > It wasn't a "tap" the first time you posted about it - it was a "slap > across the chops": http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pets.cats.health+behav/msg/7e4b46e3ebbabe55?d mode=source&hl=en
> Path: > archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.s [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > -L. You are so ruled. And so insane. I love thinking about you squinting over your little screen. Googling away. Ahhh. :) What would you do without me, fanboi?
-L. - 22 Nov 2005 07:17 GMT > You are so ruled. And so insane. I love thinking about you squinting over > your little screen. Googling away. Ahhh. :) Don't cream your panties yet. I have a staff. The multitudes revel in making you squirm. Some you've never even met.
>What would you do without me, > fanboi? Wouldn't I like to find out... -L.
Lumpy - 22 Nov 2005 08:14 GMT > > You are so ruled. And so insane. I love thinking about you squinting over > > your little screen. Googling away. Ahhh. :) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Wouldn't I like to find out... > -L. I just cannot wait until he begins to read.
-L. - 22 Nov 2005 08:26 GMT > I just cannot wait until he begins to read. Don't be so hard on your husband. It's not his fault, you know.
-L.
Diane - 22 Nov 2005 12:22 GMT That's weird. I didn't write what was below about a biting cat or having one for 20 years. Misattribution?
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cybercat - 22 Nov 2005 18:12 GMT > That's weird. I didn't write what was below about a biting cat or having > one for 20 years. Misattribution? Just like I have never posted as ChakaShiva--or ever used the word "chops" to refer to a mouth.
It's a simple smear campaign.
-L. - 22 Nov 2005 19:02 GMT > > That's weird. I didn't write what was below about a biting cat or having > > one for 20 years. Misattribution? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > It's a simple smear campaign. Archive doesn't lie, Piggy Grrl. Just follow the link.and look at the header Or are you now claiming you aren't "Mary"? <snicker>
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pets.cats.health+behav/msg/7e4b46e3ebbabe55?d mode=source&hl=en
-L.
-L. - 22 Nov 2005 18:28 GMT > That's weird. I didn't write what was below about a biting cat or having > one for 20 years. Misattribution? Look at the headers. Mary/Toppaz/cybercat/Lumpy misquoted you when she replied. Go look at the original - the link is there.
-L.
-L. - 22 Nov 2005 18:31 GMT > > That's weird. I didn't write what was below about a biting cat or having > > one for 20 years. Misattribution? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -L. treeline12345@yahoo.com - 21 Nov 2005 22:21 GMT > > I recently took into foster care a half-Siamese female, declawed on > > the front. She has a real Jekyll/Hyde personality. One minute she is [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > for 20 years. Do you plan on fostering her for long enough to > train her not to bite? I have noticed this behavior with declawed cats. I do not think it's a coincidence.
Tony P. - 22 Nov 2005 03:13 GMT > > I recently took into foster care a half-Siamese female, declawed on > > the front. She has a real Jekyll/Hyde personality. One minute she is [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > cats and biting, right? And this poor girl is part Siamese, too. They can > be really moody. I have a 25lb. fully claw intact cat that also has a biting thing. He doesn't bite hard enough to break skin, it's just a playful thing. So I'd say that correlation is off by a bit.
CatNipped - 22 Nov 2005 03:26 GMT > > > I recently took into foster care a half-Siamese female, declawed on > > > the front. She has a real Jekyll/Hyde personality. One minute she is [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > doesn't bite hard enough to break skin, it's just a playful thing. So > I'd say that correlation is off by a bit. It's not a one-to-one correlation, e.g. you can say "all cats that are declawed have biting problems" *without* drawing the conclusion that "all cats that have biting problems have been declawed".
I don't even think that all cats that have been declawed have biting problems - just that it's *very* likely that a cat that has been declawed will.
Hugs,
CatNipped
whitershadeofpale - 22 Nov 2005 03:35 GMT > I don't even think that all cats that have been declawed have biting > problems - just that it's *very* likely that a cat that has been declawed [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > CatNipped well make up your mind mmm mmm mmm
you can't have it both ways
:0 whitershadeofpale - 22 Nov 2005 03:37 GMT > I don't even think that all cats that have been declawed have biting > problems - just that it's *very* likely that a cat that has been declawed [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > CatNipped of course the topic IS Jekyll/Hyde
cybercat - 22 Nov 2005 04:30 GMT > > > I recently took into foster care a half-Siamese female, declawed on > > > the front. She has a real Jekyll/Hyde personality. One minute she is [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > doesn't bite hard enough to break skin, it's just a playful thing. So > I'd say that correlation is off by a bit. A correlation between an increase in biting in declawed cats does not at all reflect upon if or how much intact cats bite.
Joe Canuck - 22 Nov 2005 12:27 GMT >>>I recently took into foster care a half-Siamese female, declawed on >>>the front. She has a real Jekyll/Hyde personality. One minute she is [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > doesn't bite hard enough to break skin, it's just a playful thing. So > I'd say that correlation is off by a bit. Based on your ONE example? No, I don't think so.
Joe Canuck - 21 Nov 2005 20:05 GMT > I recently took into foster care a half-Siamese female, declawed on > the front. She has a real Jekyll/Hyde personality. One minute she is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I can't in good conscience offer her for adoption while she's like > this, Any suggestions? Unfortunately you don't know her history; however, she has been declawed... and declawed cats are more inclined to bite because they no longer have claws as a defensive mechanism.
Richard Evans - 21 Nov 2005 21:11 GMT >Unfortunately you don't know her history; however, she has been >declawed... and declawed cats are more inclined to bite because they no >longer have claws as a defensive mechanism. Her history is that she was a house pet who was given into foster care because of this biting behavior.
I can understand why a declawed cat would resort to biting in a threatening situation where clawing would otherwise be an option, but I don't understand biting in nonthreatening situations that the cat herself initiated.
Joe Canuck - 21 Nov 2005 21:18 GMT >>Unfortunately you don't know her history; however, she has been >>declawed... and declawed cats are more inclined to bite because they no [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I don't understand biting in nonthreatening situations that the cat > herself initiated. Overstimulated?
whitershadeofpale - 21 Nov 2005 21:52 GMT > I can understand why a declawed cat would resort to biting in a > threatening situation where clawing would otherwise be an option, but > I don't understand biting in nonthreatening situations that the cat > herself initiated. Stoppe being so sensitive about it and just kick her a.s...playfully. Grab her whole head in your hand...pen her to the couch and then let her up...repeat...play with the cat..play rough with her.
I tell ya, I had a friend who would toss his cat across the room spin her madly...round and round...the cat kep coming back for more. Some people are like that, just buck a.s wild <cough cough>...
This way she gets it out of her system.
for the biting though, just dominate her, pen her down by the throat. (don't choke her, I don't mean that..I mean, play wrestling) put some gloves, or long sleeves...
don't get me started.. play rough with her / she likes it that man
whitershadeofpale - 21 Nov 2005 22:09 GMT ...situation where clawing would otherwise be an option, but
> I don't understand biting in nonthreatening situations that the cat > herself initiated. not too rough
Willow - 21 Nov 2005 21:38 GMT That sounds a LOT like Gaya (my female Tortie)
unfortunately I never could "reform" her.. she just trained me to live with it..
Hope you figure it out though.. it's hard enough to adopt out cats that don't have bad habits.. :o(
 Signature Will~
"... so that's how liberty ends, in a round of applause."
Queen Amidala, The revenge of the Syth.
> I recently took into foster care a half-Siamese female, declawed on > the front. She has a real Jekyll/Hyde personality. One minute she is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I can't in good conscience offer her for adoption while she's like > this, Any suggestions? Snittens - 21 Nov 2005 22:25 GMT >I recently took into foster care a half-Siamese female, declawed on > the front. She has a real Jekyll/Hyde personality. One minute she is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I can't in good conscience offer her for adoption while she's like > this, Any suggestions? Have you thought about trying Prozac? I know someone who had success with it on her foster that she had named "Cybil" because of her personality. The downside is that then the cat is on medication, which also makes her hard to adopt. Try giving her extra rewards when she is nice, like treats and lots of praise.
 Signature -Kelly
Brandy Alexandre - 22 Nov 2005 00:01 GMT Richard Evans <infodex@mindspring.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
> I recently took into foster care a half-Siamese female, declawed > on the front. She has a real Jekyll/Hyde personality. One minute [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I can't in good conscience offer her for adoption while she's like > this, Any suggestions? That's exactly how Kami is and was before and after being declawed, and it's the reason I had her declawed, and probably same for your foster. All I can say is time has mellowed her, but she continued to have her moments well into the double digits. (She's pushing 18.)
 Signature Brandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you?
Brandy Alexandre - 22 Nov 2005 00:17 GMT Brandy Alexandre <brandyalx@kittylittercomcast.net> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
> Richard Evans <infodex@mindspring.com> wrote in > rec.pets.cats.health+behav: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > she continued to have her moments well into the double digits. > (She's pushing 18.) BTW, Kami is half siamese. The comment about them being moody rings true.
 Signature Brandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you?
Joe Canuck - 22 Nov 2005 01:47 GMT Brandy Alexandre wrote:
> Brandy Alexandre <brandyalx@kittylittercomcast.net> wrote in > rec.pets.cats.health+behav: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >>That's exactly how Kami is and was before and after being >>declawed, and it's the reason I had her declawed, That statement makes absolutely no sense.
...and you expected declawing to cure the biting issue?
<shaking head>
Joe <- Cannot believe what I just read.
> and probably >>same for your foster. All I can say is time has mellowed her, but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > BTW, Kami is half siamese. The comment about them being moody rings > true. Elizabeth Blake - 22 Nov 2005 02:34 GMT >I recently took into foster care a half-Siamese female, declawed on > the front. She has a real Jekyll/Hyde personality. One minute she is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I can't in good conscience offer her for adoption while she's like > this, Any suggestions? One of the cats at work is like this. We got her from a shelter when she was 1 1/2 years old (that was February 1999). The shelter did not mention that she was declawed, and she was so shy at first I didn't realize it for about a week. Once she got used to her surroundings and came out of hiding, she started biting. She doesn't like to be pet much, but would allow someone to start petting her and then she'd decide she had enough, and she'd bite. Since she's in a store, she was biting a lot of customers. When she bit me, I would say very loudly, NO! and pull my hand away. Eventually when I said NO she would stop biting down, but she would often still have her teeth on my flesh. She's around so many different people all day, but eventually she stopped biting ME. She sometimes gets mad at me and will hiss & growl and pretend that she's going to bite me but she always stops.
However, she gets into moods sometimes and will attack everyone else (except my boss, who she also never bites). If she's in a bad mood (was spooked, was attacked by the other cat) she'll often take it out on the next person she sees. She's gotten the ankles of every current employee and countless customers over the years. She draws blood most of the time, too, right through pants/jeans. We were having a lot of problems with her in late September/early October, but she's also had medical issues and was going back & forth between work, my apartment and the vet for 2 solid months. She finally calmed down and has been much better for the last 5-6 weeks. I got her a cat tree/condo, which is in the basement, and she spends a lot of time on it. This keeps her away from customers most of the time. And overall, she is biting a LOT less now than she was just a couple of years ago.
-- Liz
Diane - 22 Nov 2005 02:47 GMT Liz, just out of curiosity, have any of the customers ever complained about Harriet (especially since you mention that she often draws blood?
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No More Retail - 22 Nov 2005 03:25 GMT That is a scary thought in this lawsuit sue happy Judge Judy age we are living in
> Liz, just out of curiosity, have any of the customers ever complained > about Harriet (especially since you mention that she often draws blood? Diane - 22 Nov 2005 04:03 GMT > That is a scary thought in this lawsuit sue happy Judge Judy age we are > living in > > Liz, just out of curiosity, have any of the customers ever complained > > about Harriet (especially since you mention that she often draws blood? That's part of what I was wondering about.
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Elizabeth Blake - 22 Nov 2005 04:23 GMT > Liz, just out of curiosity, have any of the customers ever complained > about Harriet (especially since you mention that she often draws blood? Some have complained, as they also loudly say that they have cats and have never had a cat bite them before. A couple of people have asked to see her vaccination records (if you have a pet in a public place, ALWAYS make sure they're up-to-date on shots as Harriet is) but many people just shrug it off. I'd say that 80% of the people she's bitten were people who have initiated contact with her, and she simply had enough. The rest were in the wrong place at the wrong time, when Harriet was pissed off about something and took it out on whoever came along. We keep peroxide, band aids, antibiotic ointment and gauze pads upstairs behind the cash registers. A few months ago she bit a woman, and the woman left and came back with a bottle of alcohol, I think, and told us to keep it handy.
We are worried that she might go after the wrong person, and we'll end up being sued. Now if I know she's in one of her moods, I'll keep her locked in my office. She used to spend at least half of the day upstairs in the store, but since I got her the cat tree she prefers hanging out on it down in the basement. She's never been a good jumper, but with the different levels she can easily make it to the top and I think she really likes being up high.
-- Liz
Diane - 22 Nov 2005 12:27 GMT > > Liz, just out of curiosity, have any of the customers ever complained > > about Harriet (especially since you mention that she often draws blood? > > Some have complained, as they also loudly say that they have cats and have > never had a cat bite them before. Well, that's bizarre reasoning.
> A couple of people have asked to see her > vaccination records (if you have a pet in a public place, ALWAYS make sure [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > few months ago she bit a woman, and the woman left and came back with a > bottle of alcohol, I think, and told us to keep it handy. Well, it sounds like she feels better now that her health problems are under control, so understandably she's not as cranky.
It's interesting to me how, when Hodge has gotten into the hallway, if anyone is there they will reach out to pet him without ascertaining if it's okay (from him). I think I mentioned in the old building a woman picked him up and brought him downstairs and was petting him, and I told her that to watch out, he does bite, and she said something like, "Oh, no, not this sweet boy ---- YROWCH!" She couldn't say I didn't warn her.
:) He'd had enough. :) If I see a friendly looking dog, I'll ask first if petting is okay. 99 percent of the time, the owner will say yes, but sometimes they say the dog is a bit touchy.
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Willow - 24 Nov 2005 14:52 GMT People generally don't think that way though, I had a customer back home who roughly pushed my dog out of his way, without question, without warning. Pud only gave a warning snap, didn't even bite, and then he went behind the counter to get away.
Pud had been "working" with me for months, customers loved him, he loved everybody and their dogs. He was not in any shape or form an agressive dog.
The guy called my boss, treatened to sue and made a huge fuss about how stupid it was to have a pittbull in a public place.
No matter how much I explained, as did the other customers who were there, I was force to leave my dog at home or quit my job (I did the latter, ain't working without my doggie !)
 Signature Will~
"... so that's how liberty ends, in a round of applause."
Queen Amidala, The revenge of the Syth.
> > > Liz, just out of curiosity, have any of the customers ever complained > > > about Harriet (especially since you mention that she often draws blood? [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > percent of the time, the owner will say yes, but sometimes they say the > dog is a bit touchy. No More Retail - 24 Nov 2005 15:02 GMT Your lucky Willow here in Florida some areas they would have seized the dog and put him to sleep just because he was a pit-bull. A lot of issues about pit bull are hitting the media. They don't play anymore down here with so many pit-bull attacks; they just seize the dog and you lose your friend it sucks in situations like that
> People generally don't think that way though, I had a customer back home > who [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >> percent of the time, the owner will say yes, but sometimes they say the >> dog is a bit touchy. Willow - 27 Nov 2005 06:39 GMT There's no such law back home (yet). Here in California they are trying to enforce the obligation to neuter (and/or spay) Pitts. To be honest, not that I wanna start a debate, obviously I love pitts, but there's so many idiots out there who don't have a clue how to handle them, or don't care that I understand why so many people are scared.
I can't say I'm too brave when I meet a pitt I don't know (or any large strong dog for that matter) because you never know who's the idiot at the other end of the leash..
If they love them so darned much why don't they get them neutered, trained and socialized?
Sorry I know this is a cat ng.. but there's a lot about pitts going on in California too and it makes me maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad, Pud and later Mira were such good puppies !
 Signature Will~
"... so that's how liberty ends, in a round of applause."
Queen Amidala, The revenge of the Syth.
> Your lucky Willow here in Florida some areas they would have seized the dog > and put him to sleep just because he was a pit-bull. A lot of issues about [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > >> percent of the time, the owner will say yes, but sometimes they say the > >> dog is a bit touchy. Diane - 24 Nov 2005 15:31 GMT > People generally don't think that way though, I had a customer back home who > roughly pushed my dog out of his way, without question, without warning. Pud > only gave a warning snap, didn't even bite, and then he went behind the > counter to get away. One reason for asking about petting a dog -- some have arthritic or other sore spots that family members know to avoid.
In general, I just think it's common sense courtesy. I would never touch someone without their permission (ask women who've been pregnant how many people touch them WITHOUT permission -- a lot -- like being pregnant means one is a public resource or something. So I ask people if it's okay to pet the dog. The dog usually understands, too.
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Willow - 27 Nov 2005 06:41 GMT Of course.. and if one fails to have that basic courtesy, one shouldn't startle a dog by kneeing him out of one's way and yelling at it.
I would have done more than a warning snap if he had done that to me ! It's been years and I'm still all mad about it!
 Signature Will~
"... so that's how liberty ends, in a round of applause."
Queen Amidala, The revenge of the Syth.
> > People generally don't think that way though, I had a customer back home who > > roughly pushed my dog out of his way, without question, without warning. Pud [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > pregnant means one is a public resource or something. So I ask people if > it's okay to pet the dog. The dog usually understands, too. cybercat - 22 Nov 2005 04:29 GMT > Liz, just out of curiosity, have any of the customers ever complained > about Harriet (especially since you mention that she often draws blood? I wondered this too. I would think there might be insurance liability concerns.
splikydip@otmale.com - 22 Nov 2005 10:12 GMT The comment about them being moody rings true.
I would be bloody moody too! if you ripped my fingernails out from under my skin!!!
cybercat - 22 Nov 2005 18:02 GMT > The comment about them being moody rings > true. > > I would be bloody moody too! > if you ripped my fingernails out from under my skin!!! I was talking about Siamese cats being moody. But, yes. It is unimaginable what it would be like to be a cat and wake up declawed.
snowdog30 - 22 Nov 2005 20:34 GMT It's temperment and kitten-hood is to blame, no amount of "training" will help. Just don't breed it or have it Fixed if you don't want more of that type. :->
~John
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