Bullshit.  I don't believe you ever saw a cat anesthetized in an induction
chamber- and especially without a sedative or pre-induction agent.  Alert
cats freak out in an induction chamber with Iso without sedation.  You can't
bullshit me.

I'll choose the cat dealing

Its clearly obvious that you don't know what you're talking about. I see
you've never heard of ultra-short acting sedatives and induction agents for
brief procedures such as x-rays and CTs or dental exams-- or does your vet
normally do dental exams without sedation, too?  Cats fully recover from
short-acting sedatives in less than 10 minutes.

Let me refresh you're memory with a discussion that took place in this
newsgroup about this very issue a few years ago with Doctor J Martin - I'm
sure you remember him:

From: J. Martin (jmartin@fake.address)
Subject: Anesthesia in cats

View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Date: 2001-09-09 07:09:01 PST

"I have read countless times in this newsgroup that the ideal anesthesia in
cats is isoflurane only.  When the topic of anesthesia is brought up people
are encouraged to request their cats be anesthetized with nothing but
isoflurane.  This has bugged me for a long time so I've decided to comment
on it.

Isoflurane only anesthesia involves placing a completely alert cat in a gas
box and running isoflurane gas at maximum concentration for about 5 minutes
until the cat is unconscious, then the cat is intubated and surgery begins.
Isoflurane smells very bad and this procedure is extremely stressful for the
cat.  Its not uncommon for the terrified cats to flail around inside the
small box trying to escape the noxious fumes.  Not only is this disturbing
to witness, it places the cat at risk of self inflicted trauma. It is this
kind of prolonged intense stress that can cause a cat with asymptomatic
heart disease to decompensate and go into heart failure.  Isoflurane is a
very safe anesthetic at regular concentrations but the high concentrations
used for tank inductions can cause profound, life threatening hypotension
(low blood pressure).  Being in a sealed box the cat cannot be monitored
closely enough during this critical period."

Save your bullshit stories for people that don't know any better, huh.

My Tigger was never very cooperative at the vets office. Took 5 people to
get blood from her the last time she had that done and she was 18 and had
arthritis. She had x-rays taken a few times over the course of her life
without anesthesia. I think the last time she was in they said they would
have to anesthetize her to get the one angle they wanted because she just
wasn't cooperating AT ALL. I'm sure the vet wished he could have given her a
'chill pill' every time he saw her. She wasn't a very trusting kitty with
anyone that didn't live with her.

W

I think he was knocked out....and yes, it was probably ketamine that was
used.  It wasn't that he was knocked out for 2 days.....he woke up
fine....he just seemed out of sorts and not his usual self for 2 days.  I
asked why and was told that some cats are affected differently and some take
longer to be their normal selves.

I just wonder if it's worth delaying the xray for a week so that I can talk
to my vet about it (as I said, tomorrow was the only day this week that my
vet could do the xray).

Ketamine is cheaper and easier to use and does not require expensive
equipment to administer.

Isoflurane is the safest and more expensive. Since it's a gas there is
much more money involved in the equipment he has to purchase to use the
gas. And it's probably a little more labor intensive than a shot of
ketamine.

Can he test for safety? I believe that sensitivity tests can be done.

On the internet, Isoflurane is the drug of choice of knocking out
felines and birds and dogs.

Now I did not mean your cat was out for 2 days, I only meant that the
drug continued to act for 2 days. A well-administered knock-out drug
wears off completely in a very short time, from minutes to a few hours
at most. That's the optimal situation.

2 days with being a little out of it sounds as though your cat is
either sensitive to the ketamine or too much was used.

As you search the internet, it appears that Isoflurane is the safest
for all the animals, even those who are high risk.

http://www.bsdrescue.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=88&Itemid=41

ISOFLURANE

This gas anesthetic is commonly used today, and although it is
expensive, its wide margin of safety compared to the older Metophane
and Halothane, make it the drug of choice for most patients. Because
99% of Isoflurane leaves the body through breathing, animals begin to
wake up almost as soon as the gas is turned off. Isoflurane doesn't
depress the heart and doesn't have to be stored in the fat or processed
by the liver or kidneys.

Geriatric or ill patients can be masked down with Isoflurane in
minutes, then intubated and maintained on Iso during surgery. Animals
usually begin to wake in 1-2 minutes once the isoflurane is turned off.
It may be difficult to find a mask that fits the long, pointy Belgian
face! [must be about dogs then]

KETAMINE (KETASET)

Ketamine has a wide margin of safety when used for anesthesia. Given
along with Valium, Ketamine gives a quick, smooth induction in about 1
minute. Ketamine does not depress the heart rate, and while some
animals seem to hold their breath, their oxygen levels usually remain
adequate.

KETAMINE SHOULD NOT BE USED IN EPILEPTIC DOGS.

Rough recoveries with thrashing and screaming can sometimes be a
problem with Ketamine, so patients should be carefully monitored. This
excitement generally lasts only a few minutes. Recovery from Ketamine
and Valium anesthesia usually occurs in 2-6 hours in young, healthy
animals.

KETAMINE(Xylazine) Rompun is a potent sedative and muscle relaxer. It
is also associated with a "higher incidence of anesthetic complications
and death than any other commonly used preanesthetic" (1) It is often
combined with Ketamine for general anesthesia.

The advantage to Rompun is that it can be given in the muscle, and
occasionally, a patient is so intractable that hitting a vein or
masking down is not an option. Also, the drug Yohimbine can be given to
reverse the effects of Rompun.

Rompun slows the heart and may cause irregular heartbeats and low blood
pressure. It may cause greatly depressed breathing, gastric bloating,
vomiting, prolonged deep sleep. This drug should not be used in dogs
with heart, lung, liver or kidney problems, and I have serious
reservations about its use in any patient.

So it would seem that ketamine has more problems than Isoflurane.

Discussing this with your vet seems a good choice especially since your
cat was under the weather for 2 days after the incident. That should
not be for people or animals because it shows potential problems.
Isoflurane has quick recovery. Ketamine should be worn after about 2 to
6 hours in the info above.

Don't mean to butt in but some just things to consider.

propofol or profofol [have seen both spellings] (Diprivan) is a
full-bore anesthetic when used with humans and can only be administered
by an anesthesiologist or some such but i agree completely that the
current drug of choice using the needle. extremely quick acting and
quick recovery time. but if all the bottle must be used, then more
expensive than Isoflurane? but that requires much more delivery
equipment than a hypodermic needle since it's a gast.

when you use propofol, what do you monitor, heartbeat via ecg/ekg,
oxygen uptake, some sort of capnograph for oxygen saturation? that's
about all that's needed or what more?

is it safer than Isoflurane or just a lot less hassle than the gas and
equipment so much cheaper than having to bother gas administering
equipment and much simpler to administer, especially if having to do
several felines at the same time, probably too expensive to buy
multiple sets of gas administering equipment.

who holds the cat steady for the x-ray? could that be the problem? vet
not wanting to get exposed too often? that's certainly a consideration
especially if his equipment is not the newer types that use much less
radiation. i think the digital x-rays are more efficient in this
regard, are they not?

Well, this cat can be difficult sometimes (I have scars to prove it).  And I
think my vet sedates for x-rays as  precaution...to make sure to get a good,
readable x-ray.  I really am in a quandry here.  I can ask about the
sedative you mentioned (I really don't care about the cost) but I am suppose
to drop my cat off first thing in the morning and I'm not sure if I will
have an oppportunity to talk with my vet then.  I could just cancel...but
then I may have to wait a week before having the x-ray done.

My cat is still limping, however, today it didn't seem quite as pronounced.
And he ran across the yard today.  Would a cat that had something seriously
wrong with it do that???

Ketamine is nasty stuff.  A lot of vets swear by it because its so cheap.
Its also the anesthetic most vets were taught in school.  The cat's eyes
remain open while they're under (scary sight) so their eyes must be
lubricated and protected.  Recovery is awful- the cats stumble around for
hours.  Its must be a horrible experience for them because they don't
understand what's wrong.  Very disturbing to watch.

The only recovery precaution you have to take with Iso after surgery is to
make sure the cat receives pain medication because the recovery is so rapid.
Otherwise, the cat will wake up in pain.

Phil