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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / October 2005Abernathy (orange guy) update, and question re: UTI
Abernathy is becoming just a regular cat in the household. A week ago, he even crawled into my lap for a snuggle, and purred like a truck! He spent time laying between me and the arm of the chair, and he was completely upside down. He was 4 paws to the wind. He still skitters away if we walk towards him, but he has come around about 200%. He seems to be happy here, and I am relieved! First health issue though, I caught him peeing on the couch last night. In the next few hours, I noticed him in the litter box twice. I thought we had a behavior issue at first because the previous owner said once when they moved and things were packed in boxes -- he started peeing on furniture and ruined a chair. He stopped eventually. I cleaned the sofa and covered it and the chairs in plastic, and prepared to batten down the hatches. Then after work today I noticed him squatting several times in the litter box and outside of it. Urine is coming out in small amounts so he's not blocked, and he's purring and responsive. I caught the vet just before closing and made an appt. for tomorrow morning. Please cross your fingers that I can get him into a carrier this soon after he started trusting humans again. Question, other than diet what are causes of UTI's? I'll be discussing diet with the vet. We have changed him off of the Purina he was on at his previous home. Can stress cause a UTI? He went through tremendous stress the last few months. If he did have an undiagnosed UTI with the other owner, it was during a time of stress from a move, also. Once he has a UTI, will he most likely have them the rest of his life? All good taking-to-the-vet thoughts welcome for tomorrow! Rhonda Rhonda stress can kill Rhonda <san-toki@attremovethis.net> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > Abernathy is becoming just a regular cat in the household. A week > ago, he even crawled into my lap for a snuggle, and purred like a [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Rhonda In the midst of undiagnosed urine thing myself, Kami and I send purrs for your appointment. She ain't fond of the carrier either.  SignatureBrandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? Brandy Alexandre wrote: > In the midst of undiagnosed urine thing myself, Kami and I send purrs > for your appointment. She ain't fond of the carrier either. Thanks, Brandy. I'm hoping we can get him into that carrier without too many open wounds to the humans. Rhonda > Abernathy is becoming just a regular cat in the household. A week ago, > he even crawled into my lap for a snuggle, and purred like a truck! He [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Rhonda Stress is a huge factor in UTI's. I'm sure he is stressed with all the changes (even GOOD changes cause stress). For Grant, we just went to wet food and LOTS of water around the house and I got Feliway diffusers. He only ever had two episodes (and the second one, the vet was able to see a little sluge plug and just worked it out manually.) I hope he is fine until tomorrow. He sounds partially blocked (possibly. Grant was when he acted like this. I took him to the emergency vet). If he exhibits ANY kind of yowling or vomiting please take him to the ER (although that is probably unnecessary as you are an experienced cat person, I still feel obligated to put it out there.) since that is VERY bad. Please let us know. > Stress is a huge factor in UTI's. I'm sure he is stressed with all the > changes (even GOOD changes cause stress). For Grant, we just went to wet [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > probably unnecessary as you are an experienced cat person, I still feel > obligated to put it out there.) since that is VERY bad. Please let us know. Thanks, Karen. So far, he's acting fairly normal other than the peeing. I'm glad this happened on a Thursday, things like this usually happen for us on Fridays with no available vet appts... Poor guy, if stress does cause UTI's, that must be what he had before with the other owner, and was never treated. That's partially why he lost that home, too. Hope the vet can easily diagnose and treat him tomorrow. Will let you know. Rhonda > I'm glad this happened on a Thursday, things like this usually happen > for us on Fridays with no available vet appts... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Hope the vet can easily diagnose and treat him tomorrow. Will let you know. Good luck, Rhonda, I'll be thinking about you and Abernathy. I'm really glad he's with you--he could not be in better hands, my friend. > Good luck, Rhonda, I'll be thinking about you and Abernathy. I'm really glad > he's with you--he could not be in better hands, my friend. Thank you! I'm hoping we can clear this up for him quickly. Cats are so good at hiding what's wrong. He must be pretty uncomfortable to have to go that much, yet will flop and purr. He's a good guy. Will let you know what happens with the appt. Rhonda Rhonda. It sounds like Abernathy may have a chronic condition called interstitial cystitis. See my post that details managing IC: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pets.cats.health+behav/msg/070f48d478088997 Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray Thanks for sending that, Megan. That was interesting. I got to read it this morning before the vet appt. What a tough appt. It took about 15 minutes to get Abernathy into a carrier. He finally cringed and moaned, and let me pick him up. It was a horrible sight to me, after what I went through to build his trust. The appt went on forever because they did a urinalysis. Abernathy was peeing all over the vet's table, dribbling cloudy urine everywhere, and had even soaked his tail. The vet right away talked about infections vs. interstitial cystitis. I didn't even have to bring it up. The urinalysis showed lots of crystals, and lots of red and white blood cells. The vet says it looks bacterial, either caused by the stress, not eating and holding his urine when he was moved from place to place, or from his previous diet. Right now we have to get an antibiotic into him once a day and then a recheck in 2 weeks. He no longer trusts me at all, and is running through the house and hiding. I don't know why I didn't ask the vet to give him the first pill. I will crush it up in his new wet food (c/d) but I can't even find him right now. This sucks. He won't hang out in his "safe room" any more, he does not feel safe there. Breaks my heart. Very bad day for both of us. Hope we can get him feeling better soon. We have to figure out a way to get pills into him. Rhonda > Rhonda. > It sounds like Abernathy may have a chronic condition called [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Megan > Thanks for sending that, Megan. That was interesting. I got to read it > this morning before the vet appt. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> >> Megan I bet once he starts feeling better you will get back to where you were. It really does suck though. Still, I bet no one cared enough to check on this before. > What a tough appt. It took about 15 minutes to get Abernathy into a > carrier. He finally cringed and moaned, and let me pick him up. It was a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > peeing all over the vet's table, dribbling cloudy urine everywhere, and > had even soaked his tail. Aww, poor little boy. :( > The vet right away talked about infections vs. interstitial cystitis. I > didn't even have to bring it up. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > from his previous diet. Right now we have to get an antibiotic into him > once a day and then a recheck in 2 weeks. You probably caught it just before it really endangered him. > He no longer trusts me at all, and is running through the house and > hiding. I don't know why I didn't ask the vet to give him the first [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Very bad day for both of us. Hope we can get him feeling better soon. We > have to figure out a way to get pills into him. Rhonda, he will come around again. No matter how much the vet scared my cats when they were new to me, they seemed to know that I was caring for them by taking them in, weird as it sounds. Cats have instincts that are smarter than our brains at times. I hope his infection clears up in no time. >He no longer trusts me at all, and is >running through the house and hiding. You need to get him into his safe room and close him in while you work on regaining his trust. This might require a little chasing (close all the doors to other rooms so he doesn't have many options on where to go) but at this point it's not going to make things any worse and is a necessary evil. If he is allowed to run and hide all the time it may just exacerbate his fear, becoming a vicious cycle. As for getting a pill into him, try Pill Pockets. I have seen them at Petsmart and they work great. If that doesn't work you could cook a chicken breast, cut it in largish cubes, then make a small cut right in the middle and wedge the pill in. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray Thanks for all the responses. I hope this guy can catch a break. He did come out last night, and even rubbed up against my foot. He would not come up to my lap or come up to me when I sat on the floor (which he normally does for scritches.) When he did come close to me on the chair, I was ready with wet food and the pill mashed in. He grabbed some off my finger, held it in his mouth nervously, then dropped it. He did that twice. I think he knew. I shut the door when he was in his safe room last night, and left the mashed pill food in there. He didn't eat it, and he escaped out of the room sometime in the middle of the night. He must have been determined, -- wiggled the two sliding (locked) doors until it was open. I saw him around this morning for awhile, and he disappeared when he realized I was trying to corral him. I searched this house for 2 hours -- finally found him inside of the box springs. He darted down the hall and into my office, and I shut that door. That has a regular door and this is going to have to do as a new, safe room. I'm off to shop for pill pockets. Thanks for the empathy and suggestions! Rhonda > Thanks for all the responses. I hope this guy can catch a break. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I'm off to shop for pill pockets. Thanks for the empathy and suggestions! What a tough customer! I have never had a cat who was this hard to pill. Poor baby, poor you. I wish there was a form of the antibiotics that you could apply to his ear, as there is for hyperthyroid. Lumpy <cattoy@cattoy.net> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: >> Thanks for all the responses. I hope this guy can catch a break. >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > antibiotics that you could apply to his ear, as there is for > hyperthyroid. You're lucky. Kami knows when food has been spiked, and can cheek a pill like a champ. SignatureBrandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? > Thanks for all the responses. I hope this guy can catch a break. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Rhonda I hope you find the Pill Pockets, they really are great. I'm still amazed that Pookie doesn't bite into them and find the pill, but she doesn't. She's always been the toughest cat to pill, so these are a real joy to use, as now she doesn't even know she's getting a pill! I found the Pill Pockets at Petsmart today, and yikes! They were $9 for a couple of ounces. I bought them -- decided that would be worth it. I cut the Baytril into 4ths because it was so big for the pockets, and Abernathy got the 1st quarter pill down. He did chew and chew afterwards, I think he got the taste of the pill. He is a moocher so I thought he would take all 4, but no luck. He bit into another and spit it out. He seems to be very good and detecting anything in his food. Tonight, I decided he was going to get pilled the regular way. Since he's shut in a small room he can't get away, and he started letting me pet him again. He came out and was his old friendly self. He really does love to be loved. I brought in a pile of chicken and started feeding him by hand. Once when he grabbed for the chicken, I pried open his chompers (took awhile) and got the pill in instead. He then tossed his head from side to side as I was trying to keep his face up. He was really trying to eject, but the pill was too far back. Finally, I had to hold his mouth shut while he still tried to throw his head around. I stroked his throat and heard him gulp. What a wonderful sound!!! He sat there, wedged between my legs, stunned. He didn't move for a full minute. He didn't know what happened. Then I got more chicken into him, petting him until he started purring again, and he curled up in that wedged position! Of course I had to sit on the floor for 15 minutes because I couldn't disturb him. Thanks for listening and for all of the suggestions. I'll try those Pill Pockets again on other cats if needed, but not for him. Much better day today. :) Rhonda > I brought in a pile of chicken and started feeding him by hand. Once > when he grabbed for the chicken, I pried open his chompers (took awhile) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > he still tried to throw his head around. I stroked his throat and heard > him gulp. What a wonderful sound!!! I wish I could show you my veterinarian's technique. He puts his hand over the top of their head, pulls the head way back ("it can't hurt them"), which forces them to open their jaw (he's got his finger and thumb on either side of the mouth), and plops the pill way down, and does it so fast and firmly the cat's swallowed before it knows what happened, so it's much less traumatic. I'm not sure I remember the exact details since he demonstrated it, but that was the general idea. I got pretty good at it, and it was indeed much less traumatic than my trying, failing, trying again, etc., by which time the poor cat is really upset. SignatureWeb site: http://www.slywy.com/ Message board: http://www.slywy.com/phpBB2/ Journal: http://slywy.diaryland.com/ > I wish I could show you my veterinarian's technique. He puts his hand > over the top of their head, pulls the head way back ("it can't hurt [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > pretty good at it, and it was indeed much less traumatic than my trying, > failing, trying again, etc., by which time the poor cat is really upset. It would be neat to get someone to tape him doing this, then post it as a link to an mpeg, the way someone recently did with tooth brushing. After struggling with my kitty who gets two pills twice a day, I have found that the best time is just after she has had a few bites of her canned food. It might be because she is in "eager-to-swallow" mode, but they seem to go right down without missing a beat. (I go through the whole feeding ritual, get her all excited, put the food down then sneak up on her after a few bites and pill her really fast.) I use a similar technique to your vets. The farther back the head, and the farther back in the middle of the cat's throat the pill goes the easier it is. The trick is, fast and smooth, and without sticking your fingers IN the cats mouth. I toss 'em in. Hi Diane, I have actually seen that, I'm just not good at it. Walter is great at it, so he usually pills our cats when needed. He can't do this former feral guy yet though -- I'm the one that can get close to Abernathy at this point. It's probably been about 2 years since I've had to pill a cat, I've got 13 more days to practice, though. :) I will try the either-side-of-the-head method tonight. Rhonda > I wish I could show you my veterinarian's technique. He puts his hand > over the top of their head, pulls the head way back ("it can't hurt [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > pretty good at it, and it was indeed much less traumatic than my trying, > failing, trying again, etc., by which time the poor cat is really upset. > I wish I could show you my veterinarian's technique. He puts his hand > over the top of their head, pulls the head way back ("it can't hurt > them"), which forces them to open their jaw (he's got his finger and > thumb on either side of the mouth), and plops the pill way down, and > does it so fast and firmly the cat's swallowed before it knows what > happened, Like this: http://www.maxshouse.com/Medicating_Your_Cat.htm > > I wish I could show you my veterinarian's technique. He puts his hand > > over the top of their head, pulls the head way back ("it can't hurt [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://www.maxshouse.com/Medicating_Your_Cat.htm Yes, the Andrew Edney one is it exactly, and speed is your friend. :) SignatureWeb site: http://www.slywy.com/ Message board: http://www.slywy.com/phpBB2/ Journal: http://slywy.diaryland.com/ > > > I wish I could show you my veterinarian's technique. He puts his hand > > > over the top of their head, pulls the head way back ("it can't hurt [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Yes, the Andrew Edney one is it exactly, and speed is your friend. :) Yep- its one smooth continuous motion. I start by petting the cat's head, then in one swift motion, I tilt her head back while squeezing the sides of her mandible to open her mouth. I hold the pill between my thumb and forefinger of the other hand and use the index finder to press down on her incisors to open her mouth a litter further and drop the pill into her laryngopharynx. I hold her mouth shut while keeping it tilted back until I feel her swallow and lick her lips. Sometimes a little scratch at the base of the tail makes some cats swallow and lick their lips. I'm not that brave with ferals- I use the pillpopper most of the time. ;-) > Finally, I had to hold his mouth shut while > he still tried to throw his head around. I stroked his throat and heard [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > wedged position! Of course I had to sit on the floor for 15 minutes > because I couldn't disturb him. Aww, Rhonda. I can just imagine how tough this must be with a cat whose trust you are trying to win back. I don't know what he would do without you. You are keeping Abernathy, right? Yep, we are definitely keeping Abernathy! He's not a cat that should be transferred around, and I would be worried sick about him somewhere else at this point. This morning, he was in the closet in my office, hissing away at me. He's confused about everything, like being stuck in a room, and defaults to fraidy-mode. I talked to him for a long time, petted him a few times, and he finally came out and over to me for more pets. He purred and flopped against me. He is such a bluffer! Rhonda > Aww, Rhonda. I can just imagine how tough this must be with a cat whose > trust you are trying to win back. I don't know what he would do without you. You > are keeping Abernathy, right? Urine is > coming out in small amounts so he's not blocked, Not necessarily. He could have a partial obstruction. Males with a partial obstruction don't develop the classic symptoms of obstruction (lethargy, depression, anorexia, vomiting) as quickly as a completely obstructed cat. Dysuria, pollakiuria, and stranguria are sometimes difficult to distinguish from a partial obstruction without palpating the bladder. Difficult and/or painful urinatation while the bladder is full is classic symptom of obstruction whereas difficult and/or painful attempts to urinate while the bladder a empty is a classic symptom of feline interstitial cystitis. > Question, other than diet what are causes of UTI's? Diets don't cause UTIs. Diets (dry food) and stress can unmask or exacerbate feline interstitial cystitis. I'll be discussing > diet with the vet. We have changed him off of the Purina he was on at > his previous home. Can stress cause a UTI? Stress exacerbates feline interstitial cystitis. Infections of the bladder most commonly ascend there, IOW they literally crawl up from outside. Infections can also make their way to the bladder through the blood, from the kidneys, through the lymphatic system and by extension from other nearby infections. He went through tremendous > stress the last few months. Feline interstitial cystitis is more likely than UTI. If he did have an undiagnosed UTI with the > other owner, it was during a time of stress from a move, also. Once he > has a UTI, will he most likely have them the rest of his life? No- unless he becomes reinfected which is unlikely. True bacterial UTIs in cats are actually rare due the high specific gravity and acidity of feline urine, and the multiple host defense mechanisms of the cat. But once feline interstitial cystitis is unmasked, it can recur whenever the cat is stressed. > Diets don't cause UTIs. Diets (dry food) and stress can unmask or > exacerbate feline interstitial cystitis. You once said there was a much smaller incidence of cystitis in cats who eat wet food. > > Diets don't cause UTIs. Diets (dry food) and stress can unmask or > > exacerbate feline interstitial cystitis. > > You once said there was a much smaller incidence of cystitis in cats > who eat wet food. Yes, I did. And?
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