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My Cat has turned into a Bully towards my Other Cat-Help

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lisa1124 - 16 Oct 2005 23:08 GMT
Hi all, I have two cats, Boo-3 and Bella-2 (both spayed). Bella has always
been playful and lovable, Boo is a little more independent but lovable and
used to occasionally play well with Bella. Now Boo has turned into a complete
bully with Bella - to the point that Bella is biting two spots on her back
(hot spots). Bella is constantly looking behind her back to see if Boo is
nearby. When she is in bed with me cuddling and suckling, she will constantly
stop, turn her head to see if Boo is nearby. Boo will chase her down and
rough house way too aggressively.   The only thing new is a 37 gallon
freshwater fish tank.  Also, I feed Bella in the kitchen and Boo in another
room.  I do this because Boo wouldn't eat in the kitchen with Bella.  Should
I feed them both in the kitchen in separate areas?  How can I stop Boo from
being such a bully?
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 17 Oct 2005 00:31 GMT
> Hi all, I have two cats, Boo-3 and Bella-2 (both spayed). Bella has always
> been playful and lovable, Boo is a little more independent but lovable and
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I feed them both in the kitchen in separate areas?  How can I stop Boo from
> being such a bully?

when was the last time you took the cat to a vet? sounds bad. i don't
know enough to suggest behavioral tricks. the fish brought out the
hunter in him? he's bored? he's not irritated physically? no parasites
- some things don't show up in the stool specimen. when i had someone
else's cat bully my cat, in the same house, finally i got so angry that
i really grabbed the bully hard. he stopped attacking my cat. i would
have picked him up by the scruff of his neck and had a good eye to eye
talk but he was too big.
lisa1124 - 17 Oct 2005 01:03 GMT
>> Hi all, I have two cats, Boo-3 and Bella-2 (both spayed). Bella has always
>> been playful and lovable, Boo is a little more independent but lovable and
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>have picked him up by the scruff of his neck and had a good eye to eye
>talk but he was too big.

I took Bella to the vet for the hot spots.  The vet said she looks healthy
but stressed.  He did not take blood, though.  Bella acts perfectly content -
plays with me all the time and has a huge appetite.  Boo is very overweight
and her weight definitely dominates Bella.  Boo has been throwing up her dry
food lately - when I clean it up, the food is practically intact - not fully
digested.
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 17 Oct 2005 02:48 GMT
> >> Hi all, I have two cats, Boo-3 and Bella-2 (both spayed). Bella has always
> >> been playful and lovable, Boo is a little more independent but lovable and
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> food lately - when I clean it up, the food is practically intact - not fully
> digested.

I meant take Boo to the vet. She may be sick. She may be diabetic and
having sugar swings which can induce violence - it's disorienting. And
reintroducing is a good and follow the web site's ways. Urinary tract
problems is also possible? Very overweight usually have these problems
sooner than later.

I forget. The other person said they would post that web site address
which goes into great detail as a way of re-introduction, using gated
doorways and such?
lisa1124 - 17 Oct 2005 03:30 GMT
I think you may be right.  Her mood swings are crazy.  She will sleep like a
baby, then she will get up, go to the litter box, and then bounce out of the
box like a race horse.  There has been alot more urine in the litter boxes.
I better get her to the vet.  Can you give me more symptoms for diabetes?

>> >> Hi all, I have two cats, Boo-3 and Bella-2 (both spayed). Bella has always
>> >> been playful and lovable, Boo is a little more independent but lovable and
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>which goes into great detail as a way of re-introduction, using gated
>doorways and such?
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 17 Oct 2005 04:43 GMT
> I think you may be right.  Her mood swings are crazy.  She will sleep like a
> baby, then she will get up, go to the litter box, and then bounce out of the
> box like a race horse.  There has been alot more urine in the litter boxes.
> I better get her to the vet.  Can you give me more symptoms for diabetes?

I just punched in "diabetes cat" into Google and came up with:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/
And it talked of diabetic cats flooding the litter box, but the site
seems a commerical for one vet.

This following site had immediate solid info:
http://www.vetinfo.com/cdiabetes.html

I think you really need to get a simple glucose test for her. Her mood
swings, her violence, her excessive urination, her obesity from what
you say, this all adds up to diabetes. I guess you'll have to make sure
of the diagnosis first. After the sugar is control, if it's diabetes
which sounds like it so far, that should probably help the violent mood
swings.

I think you're going to have to be tougher with your cat and get her on
a diet to control the possible diabetes. It's not easy, I know. And
food is a way of expressing love, especially to creatures who don't
speak English. But for her life's sake, you'll
both feel better. Start to measure and weigh the food put out.

If I were to ask you, how many calories did you feed your Boo today,
could you tell me? Of course not. But it's not too difficult. I use a
gram scale and measure the food out in grams and then multiple calories
per gram and there I am. I can know pretty closely how many calories
[technically kilocalories but everyone uses calories] my cat   is
eating. And also how many I am eating, so we can both suffer together.
I lost 20 pounds. My cat has yet to lose her 2 pounds. But we suffer,
well not really. After the initial day or so, the body reorients itself
and the hunger dissipates.

Again, not to sounds like an idiot, /IF/ this is diabetes, weight
control and food control will help her live. Without weight control, I
think it's going to be awful for the two of you. Ask the vet about
this. With humans there are serious problems with the legs and eyes
and, well, you get the picture.

So I've put my cat on a diet and it's not easy - I had the problem, not
my cat. I think she trusts me but she does swat at me and bite my leg
when I walk by the 'frig and not give her food. Naughty girl.
cybercat - 17 Oct 2005 20:41 GMT
>I think you may be right.  Her mood swings are crazy.  She will sleep like
>a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> boxes.
> I better get her to the vet.  Can you give me more symptoms for diabetes?

I know that one symptom is increase in urine volume. I hope
she is okay. Let us know what the vet says.
Rebecca Root - 17 Oct 2005 01:00 GMT
snip, snip
>   How can I stop Boo from
> being such a bully?

My otherwise peaceful cats became enemies this past summer. After a
trip to the vet to rule out physical causes, I went through the whole
reintroduction process with them: isolating in separate areas and
gradually allowing contact. I used the method on the maxhouse website.
My case was different than yours in that both cats were angry and would
attack each other. It took two rounds of isolation to work it out. The
first time, I was able to reintroduce them after five days and all was
well for a month. The second time, it took a full month to get back to
normal. We've been OK now for almost two months. My cats were triggered
by seeing stranger cats out the window and displacing the aggression
towards each other. If you go this route, I can give you more tips, as
I got a lot of finer points from a behaviorist for the second round.
Good luck.
lisa1124 - 17 Oct 2005 01:05 GMT
I would love more advice regarding reintroduction.  The only place I could
put one would be in a bathroom (where one of the litter boxes is located).
How do I decide which one to put in the small room and how do I keep her from
hating me for doing it?

>snip, snip
>>   How can I stop Boo from
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>I got a lot of finer points from a behaviorist for the second round.
>Good luck.
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 17 Oct 2005 03:01 GMT
> I would love more advice regarding reintroduction.  The only place I could
> put one would be in a bathroom (where one of the litter boxes is located).
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> >I got a lot of finer points from a behaviorist for the second round.
> >Good luck.

http://www.maxshouse.com/introducing_cats.htm

try that. he posts here as Phil P. your cat sounds sick. it's sudden
and she's throwing up food. i've seen 2 cats just like that before with
one very overweight and had psycho moods. she had a urinary problem,
crystals in her urine.

the cat won't hate you. cats are smart. she'll realize you are trying
to make things better. of course you may get a dirty look the first day
or two.

Ask others or Phil P. He has some good info although he gets irascible
at times. Maybe if we fed him, he'd be sweeter :)
cybercat - 17 Oct 2005 20:40 GMT
<treeline12345@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> the cat won't hate you. cats are smart. she'll realize you are trying
> to make things better. of course you may get a dirty look the first day
> or two.
>
> Ask others or Phil P. He has some good info although he gets irascible
> at times. Maybe if we fed him, he'd be sweeter :)

There are times when you are not only smart but very likable.
Sweet even.

FWIW. ;)
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 18 Oct 2005 04:48 GMT
> <treeline12345@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > the cat won't hate you. cats are smart. she'll realize you are trying
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> FWIW. ;)

Awww, it's worth a lot :)
Rebecca Root - 18 Oct 2005 01:37 GMT
> I would love more advice regarding reintroduction.  The only place I could
> put one would be in a bathroom (where one of the litter boxes is located).
> How do I decide which one to put in the small room and how do I keep her from
> hating me for doing it?

Somebody else posted the maxhouse site so I won't dig it out. If you've
had a chance to read that, you probably already realize that they take
turns being locked up so that neither gets to feel that the rest of the
house is theirs alone. I did a schedule of, roughly, 7 hours locked-up,
7 hours out, 10 hours locked-up, 7 hours out, 7 hours locked-up, 10
hours out. The 10 hour segments were overnight, so each cat got to
sleep with me every other night. Here's an outline of what the
behaviourist suggested once the cats were comfortable with each other
at the barrier:

- Give attention and treats at the barrier so that being together was a
positive experience. (I used Kitty Kaviar and a toy that I could play
with on both sides of the barrier)

- Gradually open the barrier an inch or so that they can touch noses,
if they want.

- When that goes well, hold one cat and pet it while in the room with
the other. (I couldn't do that - neither cat tolerates being held. I
just let them out for short periods and gave lots of attention with
treats and toys, and eventually we were OK)

When they first were in the same room together, they'd still get into
little tiffs; Sukey would all of a sudden get nervous and hissy. At
first I always separated at this point, but then I learned to read body
language better and could tell when she'd let it pass, so I let it
pass. It was nerve-wracking. Finally they got so they tolerated each
other: exagerated effort to avoid conflict by giving each other wide
berth. Then they got so they'd zoom around and play at the same time,
but avoid actuall interaction, and then finally they got back to
playing with each other. The point where Sukey went right up to Riley
for a face licking was the final victory. Hope all goes well with your
cat.

The diabetes discussion is interesting. I'm a teacher and I had a
student diagnosed with diabetes at age 10. One of the key symptoms was
when this very mild and balanced child started having angry outbursts.
It makes you wonder.
Roger C - 17 Oct 2005 07:28 GMT
I'm thinking that maybe the aggressive cat   is getting the least
attention and maybe     feels like you favor her least.
To help your aggressive cat to get along     with his buddy start to
talk with him more  especially when the other cat is around to observe
your acceptance of the other cat    which is ussualy the is usually
upsetting you because you don't know how to stop him from being
aggressive .
 Also you can play with one of them when the other cat is present and
encourage them to be playful.
IBen Getiner - 17 Oct 2005 10:07 GMT
> Hi all, I have two cats, Boo-3 and Bella-2 (both spayed). Bella has always
> been playful and lovable, Boo is a little more independent but lovable and
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I feed them both in the kitchen in separate areas?  How can I stop Boo from
> being such a bully?

Hi, Lisa....

We went thru almost this same exact thing about a year ago. The best
thing that you can do to solve your problem is to do what we did... You
need to chose between the two, which one you want to keep, and then
make the other one an outside kat. That's what we did, and all parties
are much happier now that all that's behind us.

                                   IBen
lisa1124 - 18 Oct 2005 18:33 GMT
Oh no - I would never do that.  I love them both so much and they love me.
Things have improved slightly.  Bella isn't picking at her hot spot and has
even started chasing Boo instead of the other way around.  I think I may take
Boo to the vet to be tested for diabetes.

>> Hi all, I have two cats, Boo-3 and Bella-2 (both spayed). Bella has always
>> been playful and lovable, Boo is a little more independent but lovable and
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>                                    IBen
cybercat - 18 Oct 2005 19:08 GMT
> Oh no - I would never do that.  I love them both so much and they love me.

Yes, and you would never put one of them at risk by putting her outside.

> Things have improved slightly.  Bella isn't picking at her hot spot and
> has
> even started chasing Boo instead of the other way around.  I think I may
> take
> Boo to the vet to be tested for diabetes.

That's a really good idea. And,  for what it is worth, Iben likes to give
people
bad advice and upset people from what I have seen. I don't think he has any
cats.

>>> Hi all, I have two cats, Boo-3 and Bella-2 (both spayed). Bella has
>>> always
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>>
>>                                    IBen
lisa1124 - 18 Oct 2005 19:19 GMT
My cats will never see the outdoors except through a window.  Thanks so much
Cybercat.

>> Oh no - I would never do that.  I love them both so much and they love me.
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>>>
>>>                                    IBen
IBen Getiner - 19 Oct 2005 05:25 GMT
> > Oh no - I would never do that.  I love them both so much and they love me.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> bad advice and upset people from what I have seen. I don't think he has any
> cats.

Yes I do... A tom named Franchester. He'z the smartest kat I've ever
seen. He sits against the wall like a person reclining in a favorite
chair. He goes to hiz room on command. He stands inside his door at
bedtime each nite, just waiting for me to come out of the bath and give
him the word. He knows the rules and never breaks them. No biting. No
table-walking. No begging. No NURSING on the wife's neck (we're still
working on that one). He will at times even play fetch the ball. He
dislikes (but tolerates) our dogs. He is a loving boy who lives for
nothing more than for me to praise and adore him. Especially verbally.
We also take primary care of the neighborhood vagabond queen as well.
She hasn't a brain in her cute (but ditzy) little head! She acts and
even looks square in the eyes like Marilyn Monroe. Same spaced out
dreamy simple-minded gawk. And she is VERY feminine. That's why we call
her Marilyn.
We have two Yorkies (Ted and Fred) as well who keep Chester VERY busy!
LOL..!!

So you see, AZZHOLE... You are out there in the great HitherandYon,
a-talkin' trash. You know not from where you speak. For that reason,
you are hereby forgiven for your ignorant dirvel.

                           IBen
Frank Pittel - 20 Oct 2005 08:20 GMT
: > Oh no - I would never do that.  I love them both so much and they love me.

: Yes, and you would never put one of them at risk by putting her outside.

: > Things have improved slightly.  Bella isn't picking at her hot spot and
: > has
: > even started chasing Boo instead of the other way around.  I think I may
: > take
: > Boo to the vet to be tested for diabetes.

: That's a really good idea. And,  for what it is worth, Iben likes to give
: people
: bad advice and upset people from what I have seen. I don't think he has any
: cats.

He's a troll looking for attention.

: >>> Hi all, I have two cats, Boo-3 and Bella-2 (both spayed). Bella has
: >>> always
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
: >>
: >>                                    IBen

Signature

-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you

lisa1124 - 20 Oct 2005 14:36 GMT
If that's the case, he should not be allowed on this site.  I was sort of
shocked to get advice to get rid of my baby.

>: > Oh no - I would never do that.  I love them both so much and they love me.
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>: >>
>: >>                                    IBen
cybercat - 20 Oct 2005 15:30 GMT
> : > Oh no - I would never do that.  I love them both so much and they love
> me.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> He's a troll looking for attention.

Yes, Frank, in the true sense of the word. But now that so many use that
term
to mean anyone whose opinions they do not like, it has lost considerable
meaning. I like to be specific. :)  Hope yoy kitty's paw heals. I do think
you need to get those anti-b's into him.
whitershadeofpale - 18 Oct 2005 20:34 GMT
HELL,  bring me the cat, I'll do it for ya!

Kats! amongst themselves, slap each other around to send out
messages...(whatever that message may be)...

why should anyone frustrate this very basic matter

yaya I know, they so cute and cuddly, but there's nothing wrong with a
little firmness when warranted. but say...look...

I wrote that headline just to get attention, I believe...behind bad
behaviour that is a cat wanting some attention. Thats all.

Give them a good dose of your undivided attention, and in the simplest
way you can express...tell them or teach them what you want...

let me know how it goes.

LUV LUV LUV! LUV is your name honey, luv is your name!

> Hi all, I have two cats, Boo-3 and Bella-2 (both spayed). Bella has always
> been playful and lovable, Boo is a little more independent but lovable and
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I feed them both in the kitchen in separate areas?  How can I stop Boo from
> being such a bully?
 
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