Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / October 2005
Royal Canin Indoor or Mature?
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jmc - 14 Oct 2005 09:01 GMT My cat's now 9 1/2 years old, is mostly indoors, has had two bouts of cystitis, has luxating patellas which means she'll likely (if she hasn't already) develop arthritis.
I'm trying to get her on a higher quality dry, since she's terribly inconsistent on what wet food she'll eat, if any. I can't get her to eat any high quality wet foods - the best she'll touch (usually) is some varieties of Fancy Feast.
I was looking at Royal Canin Indoor, but I also see they sell a Mature version for cats over 10 years old.
I'm looking for opinions: Which of these do you think would be best for Meep's health in the long term?
Also, opinions on these two Royal Canin, vs. Science Diet/Hills Natures Best, vs Iams Active Maturity?
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 15 Oct 2005 05:19 GMT > My cat's now 9 1/2 years old, is mostly indoors, has had two bouts of > cystitis, has luxating patellas which means she'll likely (if she hasn't [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Also, opinions on these two Royal Canin, vs. Science Diet/Hills Natures > Best, vs Iams Active Maturity? I do believe I spoke with Royal Canin and they have a vet on staff who might give you some opinions. He did not seem biased when I spoke with him. They own Waltham and IVD.
My cat now will eat the better Fancy Feast Grilled Tuna/Chicken Feast which is about 71-74 kilocalories per can and 0.81% phosphorus, dry matter basis, in one sitting. Interesting. I also found that at times, not feeding her in the morning on demand, she will actually drink a long drink of water which aids greatly in preventing cystitis, the lack of water in a dry diet is a main culprit.
I give some SD Oral or Light for the teeth.
It's a tough call but one European research article tied dried food to crystals in the urine without much room for doubt. That said, I had one vet tell me he does not see cats on Iams or SD with cystitis. I don't know. I have seen cats thrive on cheaper dry food. But I do wonder about the companies who seem to have more research, for example, Science Diet will set the pH to 6.4 to 6.6 for its older cats which I like. Try finding that on more cat food web sites where they don't even list phosphorus content or calories. Phosphorus may be some you wish to look into. It affects bones and can increase bone problems if I recall correctly, which I may not. I am writing too much.
I find being mean, if I set out a decent wet food, like a better SD or one of the few good Fancy Feast or even a very expensive organic food, she will eat it if I refuse to give her anything else. Sometimes if I think the food is fine, I will just let it out for hours and it's eaten by morning. I worry about bacteria so I'm careful with the tuna types but cat's generally have a gut that can handle bacteria. Of course, if she's older, I don't know. But so far it's been good with canned food. I was astonished that she will now finish a good quality Fancy Feast, most FF have bad specs, high phosphorus which is not good, in 10 minutes now. You can read previous threads on the handful of Fancy Feasts that have low phosphorus. The Science Diet usually has low phosphorus so I use the Light or the Turkey and Giblets, although the Turkey has higher calories.
I probably talked too much but that's because I am not a vet and my knowledge is mostly limited to my immediate interaction with my particular cat who is a bit younger than yours.
You might want to chat up some vets if that's possible. Although some don't really get into this.
If your cat is overweight a tad, as most are, I might be a little meaner in getting her to eat the right foods. Of course, there is always the danger that the cat knows best and her instincts are better. My cat refuses all beef from FF and I think she's smart, knowing Mad Cow disease is not being discussed with cat food or pet food in general and stricter guidelines are going into effect.
Steve Crane - 16 Oct 2005 14:46 GMT > I do believe I spoke with Royal Canin and they have a vet on staff who > might give you some opinions. He did not seem biased when I spoke with > him. They own Waltham and IVD. Not particularly important, but Royal Canin is owned by Mars which is the largest pet food manufacturer in the world. Mars owns a huge number of brands all over the world. Royal Canin doesn't really own anything, they are part of the Mars pet food brands.
Masterfoods Pedigree Whiskas IVD Royal Canin Waltham and literally hundreds more
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 16 Oct 2005 21:00 GMT > > I do believe I spoke with Royal Canin and they have a vet on staff who > > might give you some opinions. He did not seem biased when I spoke with [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Waltham > and literally hundreds more That is particularly important :) since I had asked about which company was which they might have identified the parent company. They, not the vet, but the talking heads, kind of waffled on that. Come to think of it, same type of inadequate response when I called Purina, also a big conglomerate. But both companies were very nice and helpful. When they could not answer my specific questions, they referred me to someone who could, a vet in one case, and a manager in the other.
friesian@zoocrewphoto.com - 19 Oct 2005 05:53 GMT > My cat's now 9 1/2 years old, is mostly indoors, has had two bouts of > cystitis, has luxating patellas which means she'll likely (if she hasn't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Also, opinions on these two Royal Canin, vs. Science Diet/Hills Natures > Best, vs Iams Active Maturity? I would go with the mature indoor. They originally had a senior which did great things for my 18 year old cat. He was walking faster, even trotting, and taking the stairs a lot better when I switched him to the senior food. They redid their foods and the senior was replaced by the mature indoor and the mature active. The indoor is for less active (older) kitties, and that is what I put my 11 year old cat on. She isn't senior like Maynard was, but she's not overly active (except when being chased). I do see her being more active and playful. Possibly because of the food and maybe because of the changes in the hierarchy (Maynard gone, and two younger ones in).
The mature indoor does have a good amount of glucosamine, more then the previous senior (which I know helped Maynard with his arthtritis), and I believe even more than the maine coon version.
I haven't tried the other brands you mentioned, so I can't compare them. I can tell you that Maynard was much improved on the senior food. He moved and felt better. Jay Jay, my part maine coon, loves the maine coon version, and is very happy and healthy. I switched him because our regular food was giving him the runs when I adopted him. After switching him, he has been solid and less stinky. And his fur is softer too. Kira, the 11 year old, liked Maynard's food, so I decided to quit the regular food and stick with the Royal canin.
It's a bit spendier, but I am happy with the results. Advice to save money - buy the largest bags you can get, and if possible, go to the local cat shows and buy it from a dealer. I can get a 15 lb bag from a dealer for the same price as two 3 lb bags in the store. I do my best to buy the larger bags at the shows and only buy from the store if I run out before the next show.
Cheryl - 20 Oct 2005 00:13 GMT > buy the largest bags you can get, and if possible, go to the > local cat shows and buy it from a dealer. I can get a 15 lb bag > from a dealer for the same price as two 3 lb bags in the store. > I do my best to buy the larger bags at the shows and only buy > from the store if I run out before the next show. Just curious, Meghan, how long does the large bag last for you, once it's opened? I've had a heck of a time keeping dry cat food from going rancid (even in air tight containers meant for pet food storage) because the two that eat primarily dry food eat different kinds due to their different needs. I feed California Natural dry to one, but her intake is strickly measured and it would go bad before it was gone. Then I tried freezing half the bag, and it still smelled funny to me, and she wouldn't eat it once it had been frozen in zip lock gallon sized bag portions. I have one of those food savers, but it's hard to vaccum seal bags of food because it seems impossible to get all of the air out due to the shape of the food, and the bags would eventually "inflate" a little. Then I bought a few of the canisters they make for the foodsaver for use with the hose attachment, and that seems to be working out.
I highly recommend keeping out only the ammount of dry food that can be consumed within a month of being new. These days I only keep out a couple of weeks worth in air tight containers. I tried refrigerating the container between meals, but thought that was overkill? Anyone else refrigerate dry cat food?
 Signature Cheryl
Joe Canuck - 20 Oct 2005 01:27 GMT >>buy the largest bags you can get, and if possible, go to the >>local cat shows and buy it from a dealer. I can get a 15 lb bag [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > refrigerating the container between meals, but thought that was > overkill? Anyone else refrigerate dry cat food? I've never had a problem with dry cat food going bad, including the California Natural brand which I used to feed.
I store the food in air tight plastic containers in a cool dark closet in the basement until I need a new full container. A new full container is kept handy upstairs in a kitchen cupboard and usually lasts ~6 weeks.
I've had food stored for 3 to 4 months without a problem. A 10 lb bag of dry cat food lasts my 18 lb cat anywhere from 12 - 16 weeks.
Keep an eye on those expiry dates on the bags. I know lots of folks still consider the food still good even past the expiry date; however, it only seems logical that the closer to the expiry date the bag is on the date you purchase it... the less fresh it is and therefore the shelf life of the food is reduced by the time it gets to you.
I once had an idiot at at pet store try to convince me that a bag of food they had was still perfectly good. When I entered the store this bag was being used as a door stop, it was torn open, there were places where tears had previously been fixed, and it was past the expiry date. I guess they though I was going to be bigger morons than they were. :-D
Cheryl - 20 Oct 2005 02:17 GMT > I've had food stored for 3 to 4 months without a problem. A 10 > lb bag of dry cat food lasts my 18 lb cat anywhere from 12 - 16 > weeks. Thanks for the feedback. The food stored for 3-4 months is in it's original bag, unopened? I never had a problem with dry food going bad until Rhett, and he requires food for a sensitive stomach, so the big bags last much longer than what I find fresh. I can smell the difference, sort of an like old oil smell. The one eating the Cali Natural won't eat much canned, though she'll eat some per day. The two canned eaters like to munch on her CN, but rarely the sensitive stomach dry.
 Signature Cheryl
Joe Canuck - 20 Oct 2005 12:27 GMT >>I've had food stored for 3 to 4 months without a problem. A 10 >>lb bag of dry cat food lasts my 18 lb cat anywhere from 12 - 16 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > two canned eaters like to munch on her CN, but rarely the sensitive > stomach dry. I never store food in the bag. I always open the bag and place the food in air tight containers. Who knows, the bag may have been punctured somewhere along the way.
friesian@zoocrewphoto.com - 20 Oct 2005 12:49 GMT > I never store food in the bag. I always open the bag and place the food > in air tight containers. Who knows, the bag may have been punctured > somewhere along the way. In my house, no bag is safe. Even with a full bowl of cat food, Jay Jay will attempt to open any bag he finds. He even opened a kitty litter bag.
Add in a dog who will eat anything she finds, and a cat food bag is very dangerous. Jay Jay found a bag that was up on a shelf, opened it, and dumped cat food all over the floor. If Jenny had gotten downstairs before I found it she would have made herself quite sick. After that, I bought tubs. The worst he can do is dump his bowl.
cybercat - 20 Oct 2005 15:34 GMT > Add in a dog who will eat anything she finds, and a cat food bag is > very dangerous. I was watching "Lost" last night and one of the characters mentioned that "dogs will eat anything." To illustrate his point he said he had a piece of candy and a bunch of nickels together laying around, and the next day his dog pooped out $130 in nickels. :)
friesian@zoocrewphoto.com - 20 Oct 2005 08:23 GMT > Just curious, Meghan, how long does the large bag last for you, > once it's opened? I've had a heck of a time keeping dry cat food > from going rancid (even in air tight containers meant for pet food > storage) because the two that eat primarily dry food eat different > kinds due to their different needs. I believe I bought the 15 lb bag on July 31st, and Jay Jay finished it off last week. So, it took him about 2 1/2 months. I kept it in a container, rather than the bag. He does seem to eat it a little less now that he is sure the next meal is coming. At the same time, I bought a 7 lb bag of Kira's food. She still has a little left of hers. She's only 7 lbs, so she doesn't eat nearly as much as Jay Jay.
I just bought a 7 lb bag of the maine coon food for Jay Jay last week. He was going to run out before the next cat show. So, we'll see how long this one lasts. I definitely don't want to buy the 3 lb bags. Jay Jay was going through those in less than 2 weeks. And they were $13 a bag. I got the 7 lb bag for $19, so it was a much better deal.
I haven't noticed any change in the smell or the look of the food. And the cats keep chowing away at it. I do keep the containers in a cool dry area, so that may help. And I dish it out one scoop at a time, so it doesn't sit out very long.
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