Keep cat out of your bed. Close door when you're not going to be home.
Put kitty in his own room at nite. If all elses fails, make kitty
outside kat. I know this whole ting can be very confusing, but you have
taken the first step by reaching out to the other idiots in here like
yourself.
Hope this helps.

                             IBen

How many litterboxes do you have for your two cats.  Some cats don't like to
use the same litterbox as other cats do, some will use one litterbox for
poop, but then like to pee in the other litterbox (and don't aways use the
same litterbox for pee each time).

Try adding another litterbox - in a different location from the existing
one.  Make sure you show *both* cats where the new litterbox is.

And make sure you wash all bedding, including the mattress, with an enzmatic
cleaner (some people reccomend Nature's Miracle) to get all the smell out:
remember that a cat's nose is *significantly* more sensitive than yours, so
even if you can't smell it, the cat probably can.

Also, not sure how old you are, but it looks like a gradeschooler wrote your
post as there is no capitalization anywhere - makes for very hard reading as
it all looks like one sentance.  Not sure if your shift button isn't
working, or you're just lazy/cutting corners.  How would your boss/college
professor 'grade' you on a report if it were turned in like that?  Very
poorly, I'm afraid.

why are you letting an unneutered cat run around outside?

 i donse t want to

Would you bring your cat to a shelter just because he sometimes pee on
your bed?

We had the same problem with our oldest girl when we brought home our
Maine Coon, all the boxes were clean, enough boxes for both of them etc
- everything was checked out... The problem is now solved by never
leaving the door open except when we're in the bedroom - it's as simple
as that.

It's only as big a problem as you make it.

- Sidsel

Sorry , you're having problems with your kitten.  first I think your
kitten is far too young to be allowed outside. Its best for his sake
to keep him inside or out with an escort until he is older.
 Bear in mind this kitten has been through a lot , leaving his old
home, new cat , new territory and have an operation , that's a lot of
stress.
To encourage him to use a litter tray , have one for each cat, at
least , in different quiet locations  that are easily accessible. make
sure your other cat isn't blocking his access to them. Use soil from
your garden or yard in one of them. He could have started avoiding the
litterbox because he associated it with the pain  from his neuter.
 He could be using your bed because he likes the soft surface.
Wash your bedding in a biological washing powder that doesn't have a
strong smell.
Ecover is good if you are in the UK.
Alison

It takes about a month after a cat is neutered for the hormone levels
to go down.  If his peeing is caused by not being neutered you will
have to wait for awhile now that he is neutered for the problem to
stop.

k

HOWEDY shelly,

shelly wrote:

Sez you. That's INSANE!

Of CURSE! OtherWIZE YOU GOT NO SOLUTION!

Of CURSE! Because if the kat AIN'T SICK YOU GOT
NO SOLUTION! ALL temperament and behavior problems
are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING and THAT MEANS they can
be CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY by simply NOT DOIN what
you and your mentally ill lying dog kat and child
abusing punk thug coward pals DO to innocent defenseless
dumb critters.

No. There's ONLY 2 reasons: 1. He's SICK or 2. HE'S UNHAPPY.

THAT'S INSANE. Dogs and kats DO NOT MARK over their own spots.

THAT'S IRRELEVENT.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!

Animals DO NOT "MARK" inside their own HOWESES
unless there's another critter IN HEAT within
and THAT'S EZ to remedy by using The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
EFFECTIVE scientific and psychological NON PHYSICAL
behavior modification techniques.

Surgical sexual mutilation CAUSES phobias and "marking".

THAT'S INSANE.

You mean STRESS.

That's IRRELEVENT.

That's valid.

You mean the kat is NEUROTIC. THAT'S CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

You mean to satisfy a NEUROTIC kat.

BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAA!!!

You mean, MISHANDLING.

BECAUSE THEY'RE ABUSED.

Because THEY'RE NEUROTIC because they're ABUSED.

THAT'S INSANE.

There's ONLY TWO REASONS a kat will FHOWEL his HOWES:
1. He's SICK or 2. HE'S UNHAPPY (and a dislilke of
particular litters is cause to be UNHAPPY).

To make it MORE NEUROTIC and UNHAPPY.

Like you do your dog's food? Your dog's got anorexia by proxy.

You mean DESPITE that HOWEsbreaking problems can be
CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY by doin EVERY THING EXXXACTLY
PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you mishandle and abuse
your fearful neurotic critters, shelly?

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

If the kat wasn't NEUROTIC he wouldn't WORRY about the box.

You mean, if the VET can't find sumpthin wrong, shelly.

HOWEDY Terry,

Terry wrote:

You AIN'T gonna be gettin no heelp from these incompetents.

Was they BROKEN? Surgical sexual mutilation CAUSES phobias and
neurosis.

There's ONLY TWO REASONS HOWE COME a dog or kat will FHOWEL
his HOWES, Terry: 1. HE'S SICK 2. HE'S UNHAPPY.

Could be he's unhappy about sharin the litter box, a NEUROSES.

Does he KNOW WON of the boxes is for HIM?

Perhaps you should engrave his name on it?

Of curse!

AND THAT'S HOWE COME HE DOES IT.

Study your FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual and FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS
PRECISELY and DO ALL the EXXXORCISES that you can. Wherever
it sez DOG or PUPPY change the word to KAT or KITTY and
adapt the techniques to your species and you'll EXXXTINGUISH
this BEHAVIOR PROBLEM NEARLY INSTANTLY <{); ~ ) >

You're welcome:

                  <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
           <{#}: ~ } >               < { ~ :{@}>
   <{#}: ~ } >                               < { ~ :{@}>
   <{#}: ~ } >                               < { ~ :{@}>
   <{#}: ~ } >  http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
   <{#}: ~ } >                               < { ~ :{@}>
   <{#}: ~ } >                               < { ~ :{@}>
           <{#}: ~ } >               < { ~ :{@}>
                  <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

 http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf

Jerry Howe, The Amazing Pussy Wizard <(@}; ~ ) >

HOWEDY janet,

Janet B wrote:

All this is the same reason HOWE COME your dogs and
kats are DYIN from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE
aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME <{); ~ ) >

THAT'S INSANE. HOWEsbreaking is INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE TERRORTORIAL IMPERATIVE. The ONLY thing
that can CONfHOWEND a dog or kat from Nature's PURRFECT
HOWEsbreaking plan is 1. HE'S DEATHLY ILL or 2. HE'S
DEATHLY UNHAPPY aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME <{); ~ ) >

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAAA!!!

THAT'S INSANE. Kats INSTINCTIVELY bury their FHOWEL.
UNLESS THEY'RE UNHAPPY and are MAKIN A STATEMENT.

THAT'S INSANE.

You can CORRECT behavioral HOWEsbreakin problems NEARLY
INSTANTLY if you just STOP ABUSING your critters.

THAT'S HOWE COME YOUR KATS HAVE SEIZURES and ATTACK YOU, janet.

Here's The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME:

From: "Jennifer" <msjh...@gmail.com>
Date: 13 May 2005 07:25:15 -0700
Subject: Re: diagnosis frustration

Janet B wrote:

I completely agree.  Undiagnosable, untreatable problems are
incredibly frustrating. Thanks for hanging in there.

Your comrade in not-knowing-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-her-cat,
Jennifer

From: Janet B <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:30:03 -0400
Subject: diagnosis frustration

Even when the answers are bad, I like ANSWERS.  Where my little
Carey-kitty is involved, we never seem to have any.  She's been "sick"
for the last 3 years and we've never been able to figure out just
what's going on with her.  I'm trying to not add up the costs, as they
just keep mounting.

Carey is an almost 12 year old tortie with numerous problems over the
3 years, related to behavior, urinary issues, weight loss, and early
on, paralysis as well.  We've had tests out the wazoo, have seen
standard general practice vets as well as a neurologist, tried various
medications, and we still have no real answers.

I'm hoping those come soon, but the preliminary aren't great choices.

After raising her Elavil level to combat inappropriate urination, she
tore her ACL.  That appears to be healing slowly.  She's been at the
vet numerous times in the last few weeks and we started seeing a
different vet, closer to home this week.

That was after she projectile vomited 2 meals, and was passing bloody
urine, on Monday.  After a few small puddles of that, her urine was
not bloody and she was back to eating without problem.  All day
Tuesday was fine.  Saw vet on Wednesday, and x-rayed her bladder, and
embarked on more tests (last full bloodwork was last August).  She has
a HUGE palpable thyroid gland, yet her thyroid tests (free T-4 still
waiting) have all been normal.  She weighs 7# and is skin and bones,
and has been for quite a long time.  She eats well (1 full can of
Trader Joe's cat food and 1/2 can Fancy Feast daily) and plays with
the other cat, loves on the dogs, etc.

5 minutes after coming home from the vet on Wednesday, she squatted on
the floor and let loose a large puddle of bloody urine.  No blood in
urine since.  Her urinalysis shows no issues.

Her kidneys look fine on x-rays, but her test results show renal
insufficiency, but not failure.

We're still waiting for more test results, but so far, we have no
answers.  Does anyone have any thoughts?

--

From: Janet B <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:16:20 -0400
Subject: Re: diagnosis frustration

On Fri, 13 May 2005 08:57:31 -0500, kaeli

<tiny_...@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote:

Thanks.  Unfortunately, that's what my vet has said as well.
Having dealt with it with a few pets now, it didn't hit me
quite like the ton of bricks as the first time I heard that
diagnosis, but it still is hard to hear that it's a potential.

The last 2 days, she's been galloping and eating and acting
like "hey - I'm ok - no problem - don't worry about me!".

She's a tough little cat, but obviously not a well one.

She's adored by all beings in this household, so we'll do
whatever we need to for her as we find out (or not) more.
Right now she's curled up with her kitty-"brother" and
seems happy as she can be.

--
Janet B

Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 24 Feb 2004 16:08:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Russian Blue running away - help!

A scat mat directly in front of the door, can be stepped
OVER by the humans, but teach the cat to avoid the door area.

I think it's a great solution.

BTW they can run on a 9V battery, so no wires are needed.

They are fixtures on my leather furniture to stop kitties
from peeing there!

Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine

Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: Janet B <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:18:15 -0400

Subject: Re: Electric shock pad

On 8 Aug 2005 11:03:01 -0700, "mystro"
<highpur...@gmail.com>, clicked
their heels and said:

it's called a Scat Mat.  Google that and you'll find several sources.

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.co m
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ bestfriendsobedience/album

Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 03 Nov 2003 19:25:20 GMT

Subject: Re: Keeping cat out of room.

Just another opinion that Scat Mats are pretty useful tools.

Rather than have my youngest cat continue to ruin my
leather furniture, we have Scat Mats on the sofa and
chair.

When they are off, and we're sitting on that furniture,
Skip is allowed on and in our laps, etc.  When the mats
are on, I can be happy with the fact that he's not
urinating on the leather!

The static charge isn't much at all - it's a deterrent,
and a good one.

Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine

Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 04 Nov 2003 21:35:43 GMT

Subject: Re: Declawing: glad I took the time

Kaeli wrote:

I fully understand that (and the analogy of other groups
who feel strongly about issue "x").  I think there is a
very, very large group of people who choose or think about
declawing, do so not because they want to take a chance
that the animal they love may be tortured, but because
of a variety of experiences/advice that says it's an ok
thing to do (not torture in general - declawing!).

Take the neighbor's attitude ("just" a cat?  NO cat is
"just" anything! ;-D). One shared by many, to some degree.
Lot's of priorities.  Interesting thread on RPDB recently
about people willing to die/put themselves in the line of
fire for their dogs.

It was interesting to read the range of thoughts on such
a thing.  Obviously, people give different weight to
different beings and things.

While I am their caregiver and friend, I don't put
pets in the same category as humans.

I declawed my first cat, because my experiences said that
is what you did with an indoor cat (had lived with many
cats owned by others).  She used her claws inappropriately
as a kitten, and my meager attempts at clawing devices
didn't work, so I thought nothing of it.

Since she exhibited no obvious ill effects, my experience
(and hers as far as anyone could tell) was a positive one.

Knowing more of what it entailed, I chose not to declaw my
next cat (owned in tandem with cat #1 and then cat #3).
He was an adult acquisition and I knew such a thing would
be more difficult for him, but also, he was very trainable
and I didn't even consider it.

Cat #3 was a claw maniac, and due to my experiences with
Cat #1, I went ahead with a declaw.  Once again, I have
never seen any backlashes due to the operation, and I
would put up with anything if I'm lucky enough to have
her for many more years, which isn't all that likely.

She's doing well on meds currently, and maintaining,
if not gaining any weight.

Once I was ready for cat #4, I knew that I wouldn't choose
this route again. Not because of gory pictures, not because
of scare tactics about what my declawed cat would become,
but because I realized that more tools could make the
difference and it wasn't something that I really wanted
to do.

I didn't want to cause a kitten pain (even though others
didn't seem to experience any!), nor any physical or
emotional problems.  So, I have a fully clawed cat who
pees on things - oh well! ;-D  He's a wonderful cat in
every other way!

Again, why is it either/or?

Can't someone value their belongings and their cat too?

I choose to protect my furniture with Sticky Paws (I forgot
they were there - probably time to take them off - it's been
almost 2 years with no interest!) and with Scat Mats (not
from claws but from urine).

Some folks posting here think that's a horrible thing to do.

People who have obviously never felt a Scat Mat!  But balloons,
snappy trainers, etc are recommended.  A lot of contradictory
thoughts here, so I can't say that it's all rational.

Passion rarely is though - and I actually appreciate
that for the most part!

It's obvious that each one of us has our own limits.

Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine

gn.net/kae lisSpace

Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 23 Jan 2004 21:21:29 GMT
Subject: Re: Protecting leather furniture

no - it's only good for the pee problem!

Never showed any interest in clawing, and
"launch" marks disappeared easily, as good
leather "heals" itself.

Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine

Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: j1b...@aol.com (J1Boss)
Date: 04 Jun 2003 12:10:19 GMT

Subject: a few frustrations - a little long.
Mostly venting, but any thoughts are welcome!

#1 - Skipjack.  1.5 y.o. neutered male blue tabby.

Incredibly sweet and affectionate, sleeps against me
all night, on my lap every moment he can be. Eats well
(Solid Gold dry, various brands of canned - small amounts -
not much interest), uses his litter box, only scratches
his tree and a few mats that have been approved, and is
a very nice cat.  Let's anyone carry him around forever
and is very social.  Gets along well with 2 dogs and
another cat. But................

He also urinates on other things.  Sofas (where we sit) -
frequency of maybe every few months.  Wires.  Phone or
speaker wires (thin), that are at floor level.  Scrapes
around at them and urinates on them on hard surface flooring.

Maybe once every few weeks.  Dog beds and dog's sofa
(I have baby mattress pads on these, under the covers
in order to just have to do wash!) - once every few
weeks. Guest bed - used or freshly washed sheets.
Full laundry basket - random, if available, not often.

Anything that can go in the wash has gotten soaked and
washed in hot water, Oxyclean added.  Anything not machine
washable gets a thorough cleaning with Simple Solution Cat
Urine Cleaner (which I found seems to work better than Nature's
Miracle for this).

Feliway has been used to varying success.

Most recently, he urinated on a sofa cushion within a
few hours of spraying it with Feliway.

I have 2 cats, 2 litterboxes.  One crystals, which he prefers,
one scoopable, which my other cat prefers.  Both are kept
incredibly clean.  No problem using the box, even when workmen
were in the room - I see him use it regularly and tell him what
a good kitty he is for doing so.

A little history - when he came home at 5 months old last
February (2002), he had a bad case of the squirts and managed
to fly around with liquid poop being released all over my sofas.

We cleared that up, washed everything thoroughly (sofas have
2 sets of machine washable slipcovers, and the leather sofa
he christened has a scat mat on it now), and thought we had
conquered any problems.

He is quite the perfect cat except for this issue and it's
very random as to where and when he decides to urinate.

I'm not happy with the situation of course, and can't quite
figure out what's going on.  He doesn't have a UTI and has
normal elimination patterns as far as frequency.

He does not do this in my bedroom, the other guest bedroom,
the kitchen or dining room.

If you've read this far, I have another cat and problem! ;-D

#2 Carey. Almost 10 y.o. spayed tortie.  Neurological problems
(probabl brain tumor, other things ruled out).  Has been on Pred
and Valium for a bit over a year,  and has dropped from a bit over
9# to less than 7# (all thyroid tests came back normal).

She's a happy and sweet cat who bugs me for her pills every
morning.  She has a problem with raised (even happy) voices
where she attacks the dogs.  I've talked about that here before.

The dogs are saints and have never reacted adversely to her
doing this.  I can pick her up during these episodes and she
doesn't attack me, but is hell bent on trying to attack the
dogs.  There have been times where the dogs noises have
triggered this.  She gets along well with the younger cat.

She adores the dogs otherwise, and that's really the problem
more than the attacking (we've all kind of learned to live
with that!).

She obsesses over them.

When she was a kitten, she nursed on my Golden Retriever
so much that she needed surgery for hair blockage.  She
ceased the behavior until she was 5.5 and when another
dog died, then she resumed.

She transferred that to another dog after the Golden died
1.5 years later, and now it's just increased to a difficult
level.

She does this to both of my dogs, mostly at nighttime or
whenever they are napping in my bedroom.  She will do it
to the one dog in other locations as well.  During the day,
it's not so bad.

The dogs look confused but tolerate it, even though she's
latched onto them with her mouth and rear claws.  She
attaches herself to various parts of their bodies.

Nighttime is the problem - we're not getting any sleep!

Skipjack sleeps on the bed, the dogs sleep on their dog
beds or her favorite dog sleeps under the bed.

She will not leave her alone!

Poor Lucy gets up and leaves the room, only for Carey
to follow her, and she winds up pacing around, which
keeps us awake.  She just isn't deterred.  She can be
lifted off, tossed off, grumbled at, but she will not
leave the dogs alone until she's good and ready.

The only rooms that can be closed off are either across
the hall or under our room.  She's a very vocal cat and
will meow like crazy if confined away from everyone else,
so that won't help sleep.

Any thoughts of novel things to try with either of these
kitties?  I adore them but their habits are driving me
up the wall at times!

Janet Boss
Best Friends Dog Obedience
"Nice Manners for the Family Pet"
Voted "Best of Baltimore 2001" - Baltimore Magazine

HOWEDY janet,

Janet B wrote:

That's the price of admission, Phil.

janet works with the kill shelter that murders
90% of their sheletered critters of which 10%
of janet's dog training STUDENTS like Nessa's
dogs are CUSTOMERS for their DEATH DEALING RESCUE..

Yeah. That's why you got mad at paulette "TOO MANY
NO KILL SHELTERS" nolan's offer to accept your
STUDENT Nessa's dogs when they turned on her thanks
to you and your partner sinofabitch jerking choking
shocking bribing and tying them to the bed and locking
them in the crapper and destroying her house and gettin
her evicted for barking complaints.

REMEMBER janet?

You mean, like your own SHELTER, janet. You DO
rmember paulette was gonna "accept" your STUDENT
Nessa's owner aggressive dogs and murder them on
the sly so Nessa WOULDN'T GO INSANE *(round trip)
from MURDERING her dogs she TRUSTED YOU TO TRAIN,
the dogs you taught her to HURT and INTIMIDATE.

REMEMBER NOW, janet?

No janet. Dogs GET MURDERED in SHELTERS by
DOG MURDERERS like mikey ball and you. paulette
runs a NO KILL shelter. She tells folks she don't
MURDER the dogs she MURDERS like she was fixin to
do for YOUR STUDENT NESSA.

Yeah, he means critters that ain't in intractable
pain or needing extensive dramatic surgury.

That NO KILL should mean NO KILLIN of animals
that can LIVE without being in intractable
pain or needing extensive expensive dramatic
often futile surgeries, janet? That's quite
a change up from what your shelters offer.

You mean NOT MURDERING INNOCENT reasonably HEELTHY
ADOPTABLE CRITTERS?

That'd require some THINKING CARING PERSONS.

You mean KENNELED, janet? Kinda like a racing
Grey Hound or zoo critter or ETHICKAL BREEDER'S
BROOD STOCK, janet?

Whatever, it beats the crap outta GETTIN MURDERED by
a RESCUER like yourself and paula "kind2dogs" nolan.

Not since you got your SHOCK collar, janet?:

"> So, I prefer the better fitting nylon slip collars,

That so? You mean when you ain't jerkin and
choking the dog on your pronged spiked pinch
choke collar, janet...

You mean those FREAKY dogs that STRUGGLE when choked, janet?

RIGHT... so they don't BREAK their thin slip chokers...

You mean, the dogs you CAN'T HURT ENOUGH with
your pronged spiked pinch and slip choke collars,
janet <{); ~ ) >

Like when you know the dog will turn on you
for jerking and choking IT, like nessa's dogs.

Phil was talkin about THIS:

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

We was talkin about THIS:

Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.
Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.

Just hides under a desk in the house.

Here's your PARTNER who heelped nessa train her dogs:

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

sinofabitch writes:

Of curse THAT'S a lie.

Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?

No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

That so?

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...

The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.

Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

From: "sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:43:01 -0500
Subject: Re: E-Collars - with Vibrator?

 Hm. Just out of curiosity, under what circumstances,
and at what distance?

  Personally, I'd be inclined to suspect collar failure
if that happened, especially if the dog was at a distance
and/or if there were trees or some other terrain which
could affect range.

From: sionnach (rhyfe...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?

I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".

Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

That's INSANE. Ain't it. So's this, here's professor
of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research at UofWI marshall
"SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!" into ITS face for five
seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation"
dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

You're a liar and dog abusing mental case.

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  Meow

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                 The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >

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 http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf

            Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

                         IT AIN'T PRETTY.

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