Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / September 2005
Your experiences with vet competence
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Brian Link - 17 Sep 2005 23:03 GMT Megan used to go on about finding a decent vet, and surprised me with how many vets are actually clueless and even dangerous.
As a simple consumer, I hadn't realized this was an issue. I mean, these folks go to college, they get accredited, you would think there would be uniformity in their skills.
Now that we have another cat in the household, I'm thinking about shopping around again for a vet. Our current vet is close (minimizing terrorized howling-in-the-carrier time) and good with people, but I don't know how to evaluate whether they're good with our cats. Luckily (touch wood) we haven't had any major crises with any cats since being at that vet, but I'd like to think that if something did come up we were giving them the best care possible.
What do you folks think is the average competency of your garden-variety vet? And what questions do you ask, what research do you do to convince yourselves that a vet is safe and knowledgeable?
Thanks
BLink
MaryL - 17 Sep 2005 23:16 GMT > Megan used to go on about finding a decent vet, and surprised me with > how many vets are actually clueless and even dangerous. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > BLink I have been fortunate because I have a vet who is caring and who also has excellent skills. I have used the same vet for 25 years, starting when he was a newly-arrived vet in town. He is very open to referrals to specialists, when needed. (Be very leery of anyone who seems to hesitate if you want a specialist, a second opinion, or copies of your records.) By contrast, my sister has one of those vets who I really would classify as less-than-competent. So far, I haven't been able to talk her into trying anyone else -- not because she thinks he is so great but because he is nearby. You cannot expect all vets to be equally competent, just as you cannot expect all MDs to be equally competent. There are wide variations in skills, specialties, and attitude.
As to your question about what to look for: Check with people in your community who have frequent contact with veterinarians, but *not* people who would look only at cost (although that can be a factor). For example, do you have animal shelters and rescue groups in your area? That would be a good place to start -- but be sure to ask questions about competence and a caring attitude, not just cost because many of those facilities are forced by economics to use the lowest-priced care for their own patients. Do you have any friends who take extra-good care of their cats and who would have a long history with a particular vet or clinic? They can be excellent sources of information. Don't hesitate to check with the clinic to see what equipment they have, what the typical waiting time is for an appointment, how they handle walk-in emergencies, and similar needs. Despite my statement that you should not look *only* at cost, that obviously is a consideration, so it would be a good idea to get estimated costs for typical procedures. You might also want to ask about continuing education because vets who regularly attend conferences and take extra courses are more likely to remain up-to-date on treatment.
MaryL
Joe Canuck - 18 Sep 2005 00:20 GMT > Megan used to go on about finding a decent vet, and surprised me with > how many vets are actually clueless and even dangerous. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > BLink I prefer a cat-only veterinary clinic.
At least at those clinics there is some measure of specialization and thus more of an indepth feline knowledge and the notion that those vets working there are very likely feline fans.
Rona Y. - 18 Sep 2005 00:45 GMT I once would have thought cat-only clinics would be preferable. Then I found out that my brother's cat-only vet recommended that his 22-pound cat lose 5 pounds the first week, and at least 2 pounds a week after that. I don't know much about feline nutrition, but I wouldn't even suggest a human lose 5 pounds in a week, and generally a loss of 2 pounds/week is standard for humans who weigh 5+ times as much as cats. Something was amiss, I thought, and I suggested they find another vet.
MaryL - 18 Sep 2005 00:47 GMT >I once would have thought cat-only clinics would be preferable. Then I > found out that my brother's cat-only vet recommended that his 22-pound [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > pounds/week is standard for humans who weigh 5+ times as much as cats. > Something was amiss, I thought, and I suggested they find another vet. That's incredible. Are you sure your brother quoted the vet accurately? If so, that is gross negligence and/or incompetence.
MaryL
Diane - 18 Sep 2005 00:53 GMT > >I once would have thought cat-only clinics would be preferable. Then I > > found out that my brother's cat-only vet recommended that his 22-pound [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > That's incredible. Are you sure your brother quoted the vet accurately? If > so, that is gross negligence and/or incompetence. Any possibility it was five ounces?
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Rona Y. - 18 Sep 2005 06:38 GMT It's possible they did not get the numbers correct. It was a number of years ago, and they have since moved out of town (out of country, actually) so they do have a different vet now. I'm quite certain that the vet wanted 2 lbs/week for a limited time, though, and she may have said after the initial large weight loss, the cat could go down to 1 lb/week. Isn't that still too much for a cat, though? And it was definitely pounds, not ounces.
And there I was, telling them that 1 lb/month would be safer...they thought *I* was the idiot...
MaryL - 18 Sep 2005 10:52 GMT > It's possible they did not get the numbers correct. It was a number of > years ago, and they have since moved out of town (out of country, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > And there I was, telling them that 1 lb/month would be safer...they > thought *I* was the idiot... Yes, 1 pound a week is *much* too large. As an illustration, *people* are generally advised not to lose more than 2 pounds a week -- and look at the overall percentages that would mean!
MaryL
Phil P. - 18 Sep 2005 10:54 GMT > It's possible they did not get the numbers correct. It was a number of > years ago, and they have since moved out of town (out of country, > actually) so they do have a different vet now. I'm quite certain that > the vet wanted 2 lbs/week for a limited time, Perhaps he said 2% of body weight per week. Although some vets feel this is safe, this rate of weight loss results in a higher proportion of weight loss from lean body mass and a lower proportion of weight loss from body fat compared to cats losing 1% of body weight per week or 1 lb/4 weeks.
Phil
DevilsPGD - 18 Sep 2005 01:02 GMT >I prefer a cat-only veterinary clinic. > >At least at those clinics there is some measure of specialization and >thus more of an indepth feline knowledge and the notion that those vets >working there are very likely feline fans. I've found that the opposite is true, the cat-only ones tend to charge significantly more and offer mediocre knowledge.
However, it probably varies depending on area.
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Topaz - 18 Sep 2005 01:02 GMT Brian wrote:
> What do you folks think is the average competency of your > garden-variety vet? And what questions do you ask, what research do > you do to convince yourselves that a vet is safe and knowledgeable? I look at length of time a practice has been around and length of time the vets at the practice have been there, first.
Then I want to know what they do for the community. Do they participate in TNR programs etc.?
Once those requirements are met, I do my own research into every health condition that comes up before I allow the vet to do anything to my cat--if I can. Since I have never had a sudden emergency I have always been able to. Used judiciously the Internet is a treasure trove of good information.
Nobody is perfect. I check up on my own doctors as well before I let them do anything to me or prescribe anything for me.
Brandy Alexandre - 18 Sep 2005 02:37 GMT Topaz <topaz@nomail.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
> Then I want to know what they do for the community. Do they > participate in TNR programs etc.? I didn't think my old vet even liked cats, but then when I was trying to find out where his new practice was (the clinic wouldn't tell me!), I ran across an article about he and a colleague doing a record number of spays and neuter during a massive TNR campaign. A man has to be dedicated to do that.
 Signature Brandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you?
K2 - 18 Sep 2005 01:57 GMT find out if they hire certified technicians or just people off the street to care for your pets.
Kim
> Megan used to go on about finding a decent vet, and surprised me with > how many vets are actually clueless and even dangerous. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > BLink Brandy Alexandre - 18 Sep 2005 02:30 GMT Brian Link <blink@visi.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
> Megan used to go on about finding a decent vet, and surprised me > with how many vets are actually clueless and even dangerous. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > BLink You really just go by gut instinct and ask lots of questions. If the answers are direct and to the point, they know their stuff, and if the response is meandering and vague, they're bluffing.
I adore our new vet since moving. When Kami had her asthma attack in LA, we were given two different drugs, and the ER vet said at the first sign use the Breathine and if it gets worse, the prednisone. I went over the instructions with the new vet and she said to go straight for the prednisone. Why? Both drugs are bad for the kidneys, so go for the big guns that will stop it so you don't have to give any more. Her logic is impeccable.
 Signature Brandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you?
Joe Canuck - 18 Sep 2005 03:30 GMT Brandy Alexandre wrote:
> Brian Link <blink@visi.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > the big guns that will stop it so you don't have to give any more. Her > logic is impeccable. Oh yes, absolutely. <rolls-eyes>
cybercat - 18 Sep 2005 03:52 GMT > Oh yes, absolutely. <rolls-eyes> Are you from Canada? :)
treeline12345@yahoo.com - 18 Sep 2005 03:12 GMT > Megan used to go on about finding a decent vet, and surprised me with > how many vets are actually clueless and even dangerous. Very, very bad, vets, like most doctors, trading on their diplomas instead of their actual knowledge which is mostly by rote. But that's true for all doctors of any stripe.
> As a simple consumer, I hadn't realized this was an issue. I mean, > these folks go to college, they get accredited, you would think there > would be uniformity in their skills. But if the school and the teaching is bad? I have seen truly terrible vets and their students at one of the best vet schools in the country, an ivy-league vet school, deaf, dumb and blind is how I would describe the vet students I met here. But there's a chance they will get better. Things are getting better but they were truly terrible at one point and churning out a lot of bad vets.
> What do you folks think is the average competency of your > garden-variety vet? And what questions do you ask, what research do > you do to convince yourselves that a vet is safe and knowledgeable? I ask and ask again. A good local vet missed parasites that I diagnosed sight unseen for someone. So I file that away. This vet appears to be good for emergencies but dishes out too many it's the food as the cause. In this case, missing parasites was just plain dumb on her part. However, she did stay up with a very sick cat so for emergencies she might be good.
Another vet I noticed had really good hands but not the academic knowledge. And vice versa for yet a third vet, who was board certified in her specialty but had clumsy and awkward hands, not a good vet for handling the little critters.
I think that in general, vets are getting better. The ones I remember from years ago were just terrible. Now I see some rather kind and knowledgeable people. But I still remember that over-rated vet school and the mistakes they made while pretending to be the best.
I better quit before I start naming names.
-L. - 18 Sep 2005 10:12 GMT > Megan used to go on about finding a decent vet, and surprised me with > how many vets are actually clueless and even dangerous. > > As a simple consumer, I hadn't realized this was an issue. I mean, > these folks go to college, they get accredited, you would think there > would be uniformity in their skills. They all pass vet boards - some with better grades than others. Some have better bed-side manner than others; some have better ethics than others.
> Now that we have another cat in the household, I'm thinking about > shopping around again for a vet. Our current vet is close (minimizing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > at that vet, but I'd like to think that if something did come up we > were giving them the best care possible. Do they suggest multiple tests for fairly simple illnesses? (e.g. Do they seem eager to get you to spend money?)
I have seen vets convince people to throw literally thousands of dollars at hopeless cases. Not all vets are altruistic.
Do they offer you multiple treatment plans or choices in ways to treat an illness? The choice in treatment should be your's, with very little pressure from them.
> What do you folks think is the average competency of your > garden-variety vet? I used to be a lot more trusting than I am now. I had a vet misdiagnose my dog and it cost her at least a year of her life, maybe more. Now I am more leery.
>And what questions do you ask, what research do > you do to convince yourselves that a vet is safe and knowledgeable? In terms of finding a vet, this is what I recommend:
1. Get recommendations from friends and/or neighbors. Ask them why they do and do not like their vet. Another good source is breed rescue groups...they often deal with sick or ailing animals, and should be able to recommend some good vets. Ask your local HS/shelter if they use any local vets and/or if any local vets donate their time to the HS/shelter.
2. Schedule a "get acquainted" visit, before you need to use their services. Ask information about their qualifications, length of service, professional affiliations, areas of expertise and ideology. Your ideology should jive with theirs. (Ask questions about their feelings on spay/neuter, declawing, tail docking and ear cropping, breeding, vaccinations, etc.)
3. Call your local veterinary lisencing board, and ask if there have been complaints filed against a specific vet. This information should be easy to obtain as it is a matter of public record. (They may charge you a report fee).
4. Call the BBB, and see if there are claims against the practice. A vet practice should have a good record with the BBB.
5. Ask to tour the facility. They may need to schedule a tour, but they should allow it, regardless. You should be able to tour the entire facility except for the isolation ward. Cats and dogs should be housed separately, and the facility should be clean and tidy unless it is really early in the AM when they do clean-up from the night before (which can be chaotic).
6. All vets should be willing to supply written estimates. If they won't, don't patronize them.
HTH, -L.
tom_sawyer70@yahoo.com - 18 Sep 2005 20:00 GMT In my personal experience, the few who know what they're doing seemed to gravitate toward product promotions, increased fees while degrading their customer service, less face time and a more "test" environment than a "solution" environment. I had one vet, who I thought was pretty good, who eventually went from "here is the problem, do this and your dog will be fine," to "let's try this $500 test and see if that does any good"...or, "let's try this expensive diet and see if that does any good."
Since I relocated a few years ago, I've found nothing but very high-priced, ineffective vets (so far). I've turned to the library and the Internet to read and learn what I can, because for my dog's situation, the advice and techniques that I've found on the 'net are light years' better than any result of a test I've subjected him to, or the diet.
I recently posted about my neighbor's experience with their cat...the vet did not do fundamental analysis that led to a horrific result for their family.
Topaz - 18 Sep 2005 20:38 GMT > In my personal experience, the few who know what they're doing seemed > to gravitate toward product promotions, increased fees while degrading > their customer service, less face time and a more "test" environment > than a "solution" environment. Although this has not been a part of my experience, if it has been part of yours I think part of shopping for a vet should be looking at the "compassion" factor. How much do they do for local rescue/shelter groups? Do they participate in TNR programs, give discounts to those in need, that sort of thing.
tom_sawyer70@yahoo.com - 20 Sep 2005 02:34 GMT > Although this has not been a part of my experience, if it has been > part of yours I think part of shopping for a vet should be looking > at the "compassion" factor. How much do they do for local > rescue/shelter groups? Do they participate in TNR programs, > give discounts to those in need, that sort of thing. I appreciate your post. I am going to revisit our veterinarian decisions with a new perspective after seeing what I have the past few days (and reading more on the discussion boards).
Thank you, Dave
Topaz - 20 Sep 2005 18:49 GMT > > Although this has not been a part of my experience, if it has been > > part of yours I think part of shopping for a vet should be looking [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thank you, > Dave I really hope you find a good vet. Please keep sharing your experiences here, they are helpful to everyone.
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