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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / September 2005Is it o.k. to give cats "people" low sodium tuna
My vet has prescribed Hill's K-D food with chicken for my 8 year old siamese cat. The only way I can get her to eat it is to mix in some low sodium " people " tuna. I mix 1 part tuna to 2 parts K-D. Is the tuna over-riding the benefits if K-D? And, what are the benefits of K-D? Is there another way to provide those benefits? TIA __ Deet l > My vet has prescribed Hill's K-D food with chicken for my 8 year old > siamese cat. The only way I can get her to eat it is to mix in some > low sodium " people " tuna. I mix 1 part tuna to 2 parts K-D. I hope you haven't been using using tuna packed in oil. > Is the tuna over-riding the benefits if K-D? Absolutely! The phosphorus in tuna is way too high for a cat with CRF. k/d is specifically formulated to contain *low* phosphorus. In addition to the phosphorus being too high, the calcium in tuna is way too low. This causes an imbalance in the calcium-to-phosphorus ratio of *both* foods. The protein content is also much to high for a renal cat. Cats with CRF are not capable of eliminating the waste products of protein catabolism as efficiently as a healthy cat. This can result in a build up of uremic toxins in the blood and feeling of sickness- which can lead to inappetence. http://www.maxshouse.com/Tuna_and_Cats_Nutritional_Facts.htm And, what are the > benefits of K-D? Low acidity, phosphorus, sodium, protein (although protein should not be restricted until the BUN reaches 60-80 mg/dl). > Is there another way to provide those benefits? Prescription Diet x/d with Chicken. Its more palatable, higher protein and provides similar benefits as k/d. Phil >> My vet has prescribed Hill's K-D food with chicken for my 8 year old >> siamese cat. The only way I can get her to eat it is to mix in some >> low sodium " people " tuna. I mix 1 part tuna to 2 parts K-D. > >I hope you haven't been using using tuna packed in oil. No- Just water and I drain the liquid and then rinse it a couple of times with plain water. >> Is the tuna over-riding the benefits if K-D? >Absolutely! The phosphorus in tuna is way too high for a cat with CRF. k/d >is specifically formulated to contain *low* phosphorus. In addition to the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >http://www.maxshouse.com/Tuna_and_Cats_Nutritional_Facts.htm {snip) >Prescription Diet x/d with Chicken. Its more palatable, higher protein and >provides similar benefits as k/d. > >Phil Thank you so much Phil--I'll stop the tuna right away and check with my vet about the x/d . Now that I know the tuna is harmful, it will be easier to bear hearing her complaints. deet -- > >> My vet has prescribed Hill's K-D food with chicken for my 8 year old > >> siamese cat. The only way I can get her to eat it is to mix in some [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > deet The most important thing is that she eats. It doesn't matter how perfectly formulated a special diet is if the cat won't eat it. Sometimes we must make compromises and choose the lesser of the evils. Several regular maintenance diets are low in phosphorus but unfortunately most are acidified- which isn't very good for a renal cat. There are ways to counter this effect but playing with a formulated diet can be very dangerous unless you know exactly what you're doing. If your cat won't eat any of the commercially available kidney diets (several manufacturers make renal diets), the next best thing is a diet that contains the lowest phosphorus and sodium you can find. Best of luck, Phil >> >(snip). >> > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >Phil Thanks for the info. Incidentally, I went to your web site--it's great, --very informative. My vet isn't available on weekends, so I haven't been able to see if he can get some of the x/d you recommended. In the meantime, I have done a little experimenting to see what Miss Purry will eat. The Hill's prescription K-D is untouchable without tuna. However, she will eat Fancy Feast turkey and giblets and Sheba roast turkey. In order to jump-start her into tasting the food, I sprinkle it with chopped boiled chicken thighs or breasts. Once again Thanks. __ Deet > Thanks for the info. Incidentally, I went to your web site--it's > great, --very informative. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Purry will eat. The Hill's prescription K-D is untouchable without > tuna. However, she will eat Fancy Feast turkey and giblets The phosphorus content of FF Turkey & Giblets is is far, *far*, too high (0.45% AF/20.45% DMB)for a cat with CRF- or *any* cat for that matter. Try the Science Diet Turkey & Giblets- much lower in phosphorus. In fact, all the Science Diet formulas are low in phosphorus. If your cat won't eat SD, The FF Marinated Chicken Feast, Marinated Beef Feast, Marinated Salmon, Grilled Chicken Feast in Gravy, Minced Beef Feast, Sliced Beef Feast, Sliced Beef & Giblets Feast, are all very low in phosphorus. Be sure to read the labels carefully- Fancy Feast has several product lines (e.g., Grilled, Marinated, Flaked, Roasted, Sliced, etc.) with similar diet names. Try the SD first. Good luck, Phil (skip) >Try the SD first. > >Good luck, > >Phil I'll try the SD first. and fortunately, if she won't eat that, she likes some of the FF foods you listed. Also I will check through the Hills recipes posted here by Treeline 12345. I know Miss Purry loves chicken liver. Thanks again. __ Deet > and Sheba roast turkey. In order to jump-start her into tasting > the food, I sprinkle it with chopped boiled chicken thighs or > breasts. Heh wait, if she eats that, I remember running across diets that Science Diet made for people willing to cook in their own homes if the cats would not eat the commercial canned food. Since your cat will already eat what you cook, you could make it pretty good for her if necessary. I've tried with middling success but since my cat does not have any special needs, it's not crucial - which is nice since I'm not really setup for making foods like this, at this time. http://www.holisticat.com/rxdiets.html#r/d Go there for all the diets! i did not include the Hypoallergenic Diet and the Reducing Diet since they might prefer you to go their home page. It will list how much to feed and the breakdown of the food. Interesting, yes? http://www.holisticat.com/rxdiets.html#r/d Recipes for Homemade Diets - Feline retyped and annotated by: Vick We've included these diets for those who would like to home cook for their special needs pets but don't know what or how. Hill's Science Diet provides recipes for homemade versions of their prescription diets to clients whose pets wouldn't eat the canned or dry versions of their Prescription Diets. The sheet these recipes came from is Copyright by Hill's Pet Products, 1989. * Feline Restricted Protein Diet * Feline Reducing Diet * Feline Restricted Mineral and Sodium Diet * Feline Hypoallergenic Diet Feline Restricted Protein Diet: * 1/4 lb. liver (beef, chicken or pork only) * 2 cups cooked white rice without salt * 2 large hard cooked eggs, finely chopped * 1 tablespoon vegetable oil * 1 teaspoon (5 grams) calcium carbonate (health food stores or ground egg shells) * 1/8 teaspoon potassium chloride (salt substitute products) Also add a balanced supplement which fulfills the feline MDR for all vitamins and minerals and 250 mg taurine/day. Dice and braise the meat retaining the fat. Combine all ingredients and mix well. Add water (not milk) as necessary to increase palatability. Keep extra food covered in refrigerator. A restricted protein Prescription Diet food, Feline k/d is available in canned and dry formulas. Please call your vet's office if you have any questions. Feline Restricted Mineral and Sodium Diet * 1/4 lb. liver (beef, chicken or pork only) * 1 lb. Ground beef, cooked * 1 cup cooked white rice without salt * 1 teaspoon vegetable oil * 1 teaspoon calcium carbonate (health food stores or ground egg shells) * 1/8 teaspoon potassium chloride (salt substitute products) Also add a balanced supplement which fulfills the feline MDR for all vitamins and minerals and 250 mg taurine/day. Cook the meat. Stir in remaining ingredients and mix well. Keep extra food covered in refrigerator. Yields 1 3/4 lbs. A mineral restricted Prescription Diet food, Feline c/d is available in canned and dry formulas. Please call your vet's office if you have any questions. deet01@toast.net wrote: In order to jump-start her into tasting the food, I sprinkle it with chopped boiled chicken thighs or breasts. >Heh wait, if she eats that, I remember running across diets that >Science Diet made for people willing to cook in their own homes if the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >http://www.holisticat.com/rxdiets.html#r/d (snip) Hi Treeline 12345: My cat loves chicken liver--and there's a healthfood store nearby that carries some supplements for animals. I hope they come in liquid form, because getting a pill down her is a huge production. Ms. Purry is a "retired" siamese I got from a cattery a little over two years ago, and we've adjusted to each other pretty well, I just can't clip her claws or "pill" her. My vet takes care of those two minor things. Thanks so much for your help, __ Deet > >http://www.holisticat.com/rxdiets.html#r/d > My cat loves chicken liver--and there's a healthfood store nearby that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > her claws or "pill" her. My vet takes care of those two minor > things. I forgot to add, pill her? What for? You can get a really cheap mortar and pestle thingee from the drugstore, (screws the pill into smithereens) a few dollars and it will "pillverize" any pill so you can sprinkle it on the food. With luck, it won't taste funny. I can't imagine supplements coming in pill form, probably to be sprinkled? Pilling a cat? I used to do that but it's a hassle. And liquid supplements, hmmm, maybe. Clipping her claws? I bought all sorts of clippers and forgot about them. My cat chews her claws when they get chewable. I don't clip her claws. She wears them down somehow. Although I played with her toes when she was in my lap sleeping and she awoke with a start and screamed and shredded my thighs. But that's rare and my mistake. Now I wear pants if playing with her toes while she is sleeping. >I forgot to add, pill her? What for? You can get a really cheap mortar >and pestle thingee from the drugstore, (screws the pill into [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Pilling a cat? I used to do that but it's a hassle. And liquid >supplements, hmmm, maybe. (snip) I had to pill her once a day for 5 days--or it might have been twice a day. The medication was Lincocin--an all purpose antibiotic, for upper respiratory congestion. Again, thanks for your help, __ Deet > >Heh wait, if she eats that, I remember running across diets that > >Science Diet made for people willing to cook in their own homes if the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > > >http://www.holisticat.com/rxdiets.html#r/d > (snip) > Hi Treeline 12345: > My cat loves chicken liver--and there's a healthfood store nearby that > carries some supplements for animals. I hope they come in liquid [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Thanks so much for your help, That's good. I just re-read the pages. Their kcals seems sky high. 424 kcals for 10 pound cat - 2/3's pound using 635 kcals/pound? Whoa, that seems more than twice the amount really needed, more than three times. Hmmm. Their recommended 1 can or so for k/d is only 200 kcals per day, which is better, even less I would suspect depending on the cat, if neutered, activity level, and so on. I wonder if somebody goofed? Might want to double-check with hillspet.com. Their Prescription Diet k/d, is around 200 kcals or 200+ or 1/2 that amount, to repeat myself. 2/3's of a pound of chicken liver just seems way out of whack for a 10-pound cat. Glad I double-checked. If it works, that's good. Anyway it's a start if it passes muster. I get nervous when I re-read something and there's a big mistake, if you know what I mean. But the menus seem okay and easier than other menus I have read. My own particular cat does not like my cooking for the most part. > Heh wait, if she eats that, I remember running across diets that > Science Diet made for people willing to cook in their own homes [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://www.holisticat.com/rxdiets.html#r/d Thanks for posting this link. I've had need to make homemade cat food many times, so these are going in my recipe archive. Very helpful indeed!  SignatureCheryl > > Heh wait, if she eats that, I remember running across diets that > > Science Diet made for people willing to cook in their own homes [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > -- > Cheryl Glad it helps. I was happy to see a menu that is purportedly from Science Diet, even if a bit old. I get nervous when people make up their own menus but I might want to double-check this menu against Science Diet now. The amounts to be fed are ridiculous, off by twice for a 10-pound cat. Maybe they meant a 20-pound cat and just get everything all confused. As I posted just now but it's not appearing, be careful of the amount to be fed. It seems that it's off by at least two times! I can't imagine feeding a 10 pound neutered house-cat near a 2/3's pound of chicken liver or over 400 kcals per day. I don't think a 10 pound cat could eat that much. So I'm a little suspicious about the care they took to type in the menus. But it seems reasonable. But less than 200 kcals or 1/3 of a pound as even their k/d suggests on the can - and that's not taking into account activity levels? I might feed a slightly overweight, inactive cat less. And I would double-check. Chicken liver is okay but everyday? Might be. I used to feed an epileptic cat chicken livers for when I was taking care of her and she needed a boost. Easy and fast to cook. I don't remember if her owners fed her that long term. > Chicken liver > is okay but everyday? Might be. I used to feed an epileptic cat > chicken livers for when I was taking care of her and she needed > a boost. Easy and fast to cook. I don't remember if her owners > fed her that long term. Amounts fed aside, (and you have a good point, but it's just the same as taking the amounts to feed from a can or bag - do your own research) I wouldn't feed liver everyday. I think it can cause an overdose of vitamin A. But these recipes if nothing else, can provide some diversity when you have a picky cat. I'd also be careful of the supplements used, especially in a hyperallergenic diet. But all in all, this is a good reference for homemade food. SignatureCheryl
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