Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / March 2004
Adopting a feral - Can I trouble you folks with a couple of questions?
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Nomen Nescio - 08 Mar 2004 08:00 GMT A quick background on the situation:
My wife and I have had cats around for several decades, but when we lost our "special kitty" at a ripe old age of 20, three years ago, we both vowed that we would never get another cat because the hurt was more than either of us could have ever imagined. Well last year, around mid-November, a friend was having dinner with us and asked if we were ever going to get another cat. We said "maybe someday" and explained how we never went looking for a cat, every cat that's ever owned us has come to us in one way or another. We must have been tempting fate because the next day my wife called me over to the window and out by the tree, under the birdfeeder, was a young black cat, kind of skinny, watching us through the window. We have "relationships" with some of the neighborhood cats (with homes) and sometimes feed them, so we put some food out for this new cat. After running to the corner of the yard and waiting for us to go back in the house, he slowly approached to food and ate, and ate, and ate some more. Long story short (or at least less long), since then his comfort distance got shorter, we played with a string, he let us pet his head, he came over when ever we brought food, we invited him in the kitchen to eat and warm up (cold New England winter), put a towel in a box so he could have a place to nap in the kitchen, let him nap on the carpet in the hallway, let him join us in the living room after he stopped being jumpy about the TV, and today..for the first time...I had a cat jump up onto my lap and take an hour nap while I listened to the stereo (he seems partial to Jackson Browne). As you might have suspected, it's beginning to look like we've been adopted by another cat. But here's the dilemna, he may not be a stray/feral. His schedule might indicate that someone might have some control of his comings & goings. Generally, it's evenings on weekdays, a long daytime "kitty visit" on Sunday, and usually he does not visit on a snowy or rainy day. My wife's checked around our neighborhood and nobody knows if he's somebody's cat. Our experience has always been with female cats and , honestly, I am awfully weak on the habits and psychology of male cats. So , finally, here are some questions. How much distance will a male cat cover in his wanderings, a neighbor has said that they can cover a radius of up to 3 miles, is this true? We could use some guidance as to how much of a search for an "owner" is enough. We've been talking about getting him to the vet for shots and, eventually, neutering. Leading to an indoor, pampered life. BUT....he's still a very jumpy cat. He's gotten past "freaking out" in the house when startled, but we haven't been able to restrain him in any way, such as "kitty hugs" or picking him up, and there's not enough Iodine and Bandaids in Massachusetts to patch up the scratches if I were to try right now. I can get him to walk into a cat carrier using treats, but if I closed the door.....well I'm not sure how he'd react. Any comments as to how to get him to the vet without major trauma would be appreciated. How would a vet be able to handle him if he gets scared and tries to bounce off the walls? Should we be in the examining room, or let the vet handle him? We're just starting to get his trust and I'd hate to mess things up now. Any advice as to how to handle him when we got home from the vet? Let him outside? Lock him in the basement (with one of us with him, of course). Is he likely to not return if we let him out? The past couple of months he's been allowed to come in and go out as he pleased. I suppose we should try a cat box with him, first, so he's familiar with it if we do incarcerate him after a trip to the vet. What type of health risks are my wife and I facing, here? I've gotten a couple of nips on the ankles (he started tackling my feet and nipping for a while until he learned "NO", play?...testing dominance?). I've had a t/d shot in the last 10 yrs and my understanding is that rabies is not a worry if the cat is healthy 5 days later, but are there other dangers from a feral? Scratches? Probably a little late to be asking this. He's grown, put on weight, and looks quite healthy, BTW. And the little guy is fiesty as hell. And what's the deal with the spontaneous swipes of the paw when he's enjoying a head and neck rub? Anyway, this post has gotten longer than I anticipated. If you've read this far, thank you for hanging in there. If you have any advice as the how we should handle this situation, thank you again. If you haven't guessed by now, we've become quite attached to this kitty.
Sunflower - 08 Mar 2004 12:57 GMT > A quick background on the situation: > >Snip If he's not neutered, then even if he is "owned", they aren't responsible owners and I'd consider him yours. Go ahead and contact your vet about getting him neutered and shots. If he visits you on enough of a schedule to know when he'll be there for the evening, then you can schedule the surgery OK. He'll have to have his food and water taken away that night, so you'll have to have him inside somewhere. If his schedule with you is unpredictable, explain that to the vet and I'll bet they tell you to bring him in whenever you can and they'll take care of boarding him that day until it's time for NPO that evening.
If he'll go in a carrier, you've got it made. Don't worry about upsetting him too much, he'll probably calm down, especially if you put a towel over the cage. For kitties with a bit of wild to them, it's often better for the owners if they are not present during the vet's examination. The kitty could injure you, and it's actually more stressful in most cases for the owner to watch their cat being restrained than it is for the cat. If you've been able to handle him, then a vet surely will. There *are* methods that are safe for both the handler and the cat, and I've personally handled ones that were much wilder than you are describing.
He probably will still be a bit on the groggy side when he comes home. That's good for both you and him. He'll need a small enclosed space like a laundry room or second bathroom for the first day. After the drugs wear off, he should be OK to let have run of the house. DO NOT let him outside. In fact, it'd be far safer for him if he never went outside again. Kitties that go outside have a far greater chance of dying from all kinds of nasties from wild dogs to your hateful neighbor boy with social disorders. If you give him plenty of play activities at home, he won't even usually care about going out. A lot of rescues appreciate not having to struggle to find that next meal and never even meow at the door.
He most likely won't remember about the trauma preceeding the operation, but I've found it helpful to place the carrier next to the food and water bowl. Many of mine like to hang out in it and reach out to swat a passerby. By associating the carrier with the presence of food, it becomes less fear inducing. And, for regular trips to the vet, if your cat doesn't end up being one who goes into it willingly, there's always the method of placing it on end and dropping the cat in there butt first. That's the easiest method to get an uwilling cat inside, but they also make new carriers that have a "drop top" where you can put them in from the top. But, those latches on top aren't as secure as you'd think and I'm afraid that they're prone to "spillage".
Willows - 08 Mar 2004 16:44 GMT First of after reading this I wouldn't worry about him being somebodys cat. He's displaying the typical behaviour of a cat who used to belong to someone but its been a long time since he did and has started to go towards being wild. I firmly believe though that if they were ever friendly you can always get them back to being friendly, it just takes time.
> My wife and I have had cats around for several decades, but when we > lost our "special kitty" at a ripe old age of 20, three years ago, we both > vowed that we would never get another cat because the hurt was more > than either of us could have ever imagined. I do hear people say this a lot and while I understand the pain of loosing a pet remember there are so many homeless cats out there suffering. I think the very best way we can honor the pets we loved is by helping another one that needs us.
> Long story short (or at least less long), since then his comfort distance > got shorter, we played with a string, he let us pet his head, he came over [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and today..for the first time...I had a cat jump up onto my lap and take > an hour nap That's great your doing things exactly right, your building his confidence and restoring this faith in humans.
> But here's the dilemna, he may not be a stray/feral. His schedule might > indicate that someone might have some control of his comings & goings. > Generally, it's evenings on weekdays, a long daytime "kitty visit" on Sunday, > and usually he does not visit on a snowy or rainy day. I think he sounds like a stray from his behaviour. However if you wanted to be sure for your own peice of mind. Get him in the house shut the door behind him and then call the local paper put in a found add, ring the local vets and report you found him, put up signs in the local shops and anywhere else in the neighbourhood you can think of, wait a week and if you get no reply you have a new cat and peice of mind knowing you tried your best to find an owner. Saying that though I really don't think he has an owner anymore.
> How much distance will a male cat cover in his wanderings, a neighbor > has said that they can cover a radius of up to 3 miles, is this true? 3 Miles might be pushing it for regular stomping grounds, maybe as the crow flys but males do wander and move around looking for new territory which is probably how he found you. He could have moved territories a few times so he may have come a long way but he wouldn't be going back there on a regular basis.
> We could use some guidance as to how much of a search for an > "owner" is enough. See above. ;)
> I can get him to walk into a cat carrier using treats, but if I closed the > door.....well I'm not sure how he'd react. There ya go get him used to doing this maybe as a treat game every night get him to just go in for the treat when your ready to take him to the vet shut the door and toss a blanket over the carrier. No matter how much noise he makes he will calm down and the blanket will help him calm down faster.
> How would a vet be able to handle him if he gets scared and tries to > bounce off the walls? Yup don't worry about that, I constantly being in cats to my vet who have been born outside and never touched by humans, they know what to do. Basicly they will examine and treat him at the same time as neutering him so he'll be sleeping through it all. Best to have it all done at once ask them to treat him for fleas and de-worm him while he's there. You might also consider having him tested for Felv and FiV too serious diseases cats can get.
> Should we be in the examining room, or let the vet handle him? Nope just drop him off and let the vet take care of it all for you. =)
> We're just starting to get his trust and I'd hate to mess things up now. > Any advice as to how to handle him when we got home from the vet? It shouldn't put him back to much just keep doing the things you have been doing. I know exactly what its like trying to get them to trust people again and how much you don't want to upset him and undue your hard work but he needs to get to a vet. Don't worry you'll regain any trust lost quickly.
> Let him outside? Lock him in the basement (with one of us with him, > of course). Is he likely to not return if we let him out? Don't let him out too soon after being at the vets. I doubt he'd take off and not come back but you never know. If he is going to be an indoor/outdoor kitty wait a week after he's been to the vets or until you feel confident that he's over it.
> The past couple of months he's been allowed to come in and go out > as he pleased. I suppose we should try a cat box with him, Yes, get him a litter box so he can have a chance to get used to it now.
> What type of health risks are my wife and I facing, here? I've gotten > a couple of nips on the ankles (he started tackling my feet and nipping [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > dangers from a feral? Scratches? Probably a little late to be asking > this. Don't worry there is not much at all you can catch from a cat the one exception being ringworm which he doesn't have anyway. There is a small danger in cat bites as there are in all puncture wounds. I handle cats daily not all of them are nice, I've done it for years and I'm fine.
> And what's the deal with the spontaneous swipes of the paw when he's > enjoying a head and neck rub? His hitting out at you from time to time I am sure is just because after being out there so long he's not sure he should trust anyone. Its a common behaviour they develop after being mistreated. He should pass but it may take months and months. Rather then shouting at him if he hurts you screech I don't know how else to put it may the sound of a wounded cat and he may get the message. Its almost as if they find them selves trusting you and then get scared and lash out, I don't understand it either but I do know I see it an awful lot in stray cats especially the ones that have been out there a longest.
Congratutions on saving him, as I have no doubt that is exactly what you have done.
Priscilla H Ballou - 08 Mar 2004 16:57 GMT I don't have much to add to the excellent advice you've received from the previous two posters. He sounds like a stray to me, too.
I just want to say that I think you sound like a fabulous human being, and your new little cat is one lucky fellow. Have you thought about names yet?
Priscilla
Karen M. - 09 Mar 2004 03:58 GMT > I don't have much to add to the excellent advice you've received from the > previous two posters. He sounds like a stray to me, too. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Priscilla I'm just going to ditto this. :) I'm glad you've found a new friend!
Karen
Mary - 09 Mar 2004 16:14 GMT > > I don't have much to add to the excellent advice you've received from the > > previous two posters. He sounds like a stray to me, too. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Karen Just what I wanted to do. Esp. the part about the "fabulous human being." And don't worry about getting back on that horse, so to speak. The joy they give you, plus the joy you can give a homeless cat, cancels out the terrible pain of losing them. This kitty needs you, and it sounds to me like he's already reeling you in! Good for both of you.
Nomen Nescio - 10 Mar 2004 14:20 GMT From: Priscilla H Ballou <phb@shell01.TheWorld.com>
>I just want to say that I think you sound like a fabulous human being Thank you, that's quite a compliment. But if there's anything "fabulous" about me, it's my wonderful bride of 22 years.
>your new little cat is one lucky fellow That I might agree with.
>Have you thought about names >yet? He's been "That Kitty" for several months and I think it may just be shortened to "T.K."
AK - 08 Mar 2004 18:23 GMT You have to be fair and try to see if the cat has an owner, even though you may believe him to be a stary he may actually belong to somebody and just be one of thiose cats that damands to go out a lot (i have one who would rather stay outside than come in - he caused me lots of worry).
HOWEVER, there is a very simple and easy way to find out if he has an owner without walking the streets and putting up notices, all you need to do is put a collar on him with one of those barrel type name tags - put your telephone number inside it asking the owner to call you. EASY!! Beleive you me if he has an owner he or she will be on the phone like a shot!
My cat was adopted by someone in a similar way..................here in the UK cats use cat flaps most of the time and come and go as they please (we don't have the natural predators over here that you do in the US so it is pretty safe. My cat goes through collars like nobodies business, anyway he went out one day and didn't come home again.............................then when we had just had 200 leaflets printed to put through peoples doors, 5 days later in he came throuh his cat flap wailing his head off with a red collar on....................needless to say I was on the phone like a shot to the number on his tag. It would appear that the lady concerned moved into the street - wait for it - 5 days previously. Eddie had gone around to have a nosey at the removals and she assumed he was a stray because he has no collar and he was skinny (he is an oriental that eats like a great dane!). She had litterally just let him out for the first time and low and behold he came running back to mum crying his head off. It did get a little nasty because she insisted he belonged to her so she called the police howvere he is microchipped so I insisted the police and the two of us got a vet to check the microchip (fortunately he had one, but I had loads of photos of him as well right from him being a kitten) so I was able to prove he was mine as I had had him since he was 12 weeks old and they could see that from the microchip.
Anyway that's my tale. You are probably right he is a stray but you have to be sure or you might end up in court................putting a collar on is the easiest way to find out quickly.
AK
Mike C - 09 Mar 2004 01:08 GMT > My wife and I have had cats around for several decades, but when we > lost our "special kitty" at a ripe old age of 20, three years ago, we both [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Browne). As you might have suspected, it's beginning to look like we've > been adopted by another cat. That's sort of what happened with Midnight, although I suspect he was an abandoned pet rather than a feral cat. At first, he wouldn't let me near him, but after I fed him for a while, he started following me around & rubbing against my leg. It still took quite a while before I could pet him. I finally got him in my apartment once, but he freaked out & the next time I opened the door, he bolted. I slowly managed to regain his confidence and a few weeks later, I got him to stay & took him to the vet. He's been living with me since July and he's now a sweet, affectionate cat. He definitely owns me - as soon as I sit down, he runs over & jumps on my lap.
 Signature mike3k <at> suespammers <dot> org You can blow out a candle, but you can't blow out a fire. Once the flame begins to catch, the wind will blow it higher. - Peter Gabriel, "Biko"
Mr B - 10 Mar 2004 04:33 GMT First thing that came to mind was to put a collar on him and somehow attach a note to it that asks for the owners to call you since you are trying to find out if this cat has a home.
THen if he comes back and still has the collar with note and you didn't get a call, you can behis parents. But if you get a call, then you'll know..
>A quick background on the situation: > [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > If you haven't guessed by now, we've become quite attached to this >kitty. Nomen Nescio - 10 Mar 2004 10:20 GMT Well, the plot thickens. Monday morning at 6:00, my wife was making coffee and the cat was sitting outside the window. Since she was working at home that day (she's a self employed quality consultant), she lit the cat in and he had breakfast and napped in the living room as my wife did paperwork. At about 3:00 in the afternoon, he started to give himself a cleaning. Then he started to pull some hair around his hind end which revealed a small scabbed over area. Then he started to pull at the scab and started it bleeding. I was working up in my den at the time and heard my wife call me "we've got a problem". I came down and the cat was leaking a few spots of blood on the carpet. Got a flashlight, looked at the wound, tried to clean it up with some peroxide and got the bleeding to subside. Well, that was it. We decided that it was time for a visit to the vet. Got a 6:30 appt. Tempted the cat into the carrier with a piece of ham, closed the door and he went nuts. Banging around, crying, and he peed on the towel that we had put in (good thing we had a towel). We grabbed another towel and headed off to the vet for a 20 min. ride with a very upset cat. So I carry the cat into the vets, towel over the top of the carrier, I'm wearing oven mits to avoid getting scratched, and an unhappy cat. Talked to the vet and explained the situation. The first thing she did was go get a sheet with the health dept. protocol for "animal bites of unknown origin in unvaccinated pets". Step one...."euthanize". Needless to say, our hearts shattered. Step two...."if the owner is unwilling to euthanize...the pet should be quarrantined for 6 months". "A rabies vaccination should not be given until 5 months into the quarrentine period". Ok, that looks better. The vet explained the health issues and dangers we would face with a potentially rabid cat. There have been a few sporadic cases of rabies in the area with a major outbreak several years ago. I asked her to check out the wound and we'd go from there. So she took the cat out back for what seemed like an eternity and came back with, "it's definitely a bite....and there's an abscess". According to the vet, he was a real good boy during the exam. Anyway, we now have a potentially rabid cat, with a seeping abscess, living in our basement, getting 2 pills a day (thank God for little cheese balls), and having a warm washcloth on the wound 3 times a day. Prognosis for the cat....for the abscess, good....rabies, questionable...... new home in the basement, not a rough as I expected. Prognosis for us......It's been a tough day and a half, not much sleep, concerned about the health risks, gotta go get a rabies shot, so far so good. It's been over a day since the cat peed in the carrier and he's yet to use the box. He's been in it a few times, but has not used it. I'm a little worried about that. But he knows it's there, at least. Other than that, he's eating Ok, light, but OK. He's had some cream, but does not seem to want any water. I'm not going to worry too much about it, right now, "cause he's still settling in. Sure hope we can get through this, OK. We realized at the vets that we are VERY fond of that cat. I do wonder, though, if our hearts are in the right place but our heads are up our.... So right now, I'm kinda hoping that some "lost cat" posters are going to appear and we'll find that he does have a home and has had his shots, but I wouldn't bet on it. And, honestly, I can't say that we'd return their cat if we did find that out. The FLV and FIV tests were negative, I sure wish they could test for rabies as easily. Of course, those tests don't show whether he was infected with this bite. The next vet appt. is Thurs. evening. So we'll find out how the abscess is doing and the maybe we can move foreward to shots and neutering. As for his name, at the vets we filled out the form using the only "name" he's had with us....."That Kitty". It's not set in stone, but he may become "T.K." for short.
My thanks to all of you for your thoughts, advice, and good wishes.
Willows - 10 Mar 2004 11:13 GMT I wouldn't worry to much about rabies being a problem. Unneutered male cats fight with other unneutered males cats. He probably just got into a fight with another not and not with a wild animal. Bites are usually the result from these fights and they end in absesses.
Get him neutered as soon as you can cause his pee's gonna stink until then and he has the potential to spray in the house if he's not done. As soon as he's off the meds make an appointment for him to be neutered.
Nomen Nescio - 10 Mar 2004 14:50 GMT From: Willows <Roseofraby@hotmail.com>
>I wouldn't worry to much about rabies being a problem. Unneutered male >cats fight with other unneutered males cats. He probably just got into >a fight with another not and not with a wild animal. Bites are usually >the result from these fights and they end in absesses. I think you're right and I think I know the culprit, too. We've got a big old tomcat that chases every cat in the area and I've seen him in some real battles. He's a mean little SOB. My understanding is that a rabid cat is only infectious for the last 5 days of the illness, thus the 10 day quarantine for an animal that bites a human (factor of safety of 2). So if that orange tomcat is still prowling around 8 days from now, I'll be a little more relaxed about the situation. TK's doing well this morning. Getting back to his fiesty behavior and to my untrained eye, the abcess is looking better. He finally used the catbox this morning, so now all the basics are covered.
>Get him neutered as soon as you can cause his pee's gonna stink That's for sure. It was one stinky ride to the vet.
>and he has the potential to spray in the house if he's not done. Luckily, not yet.
>As soon as he's off the meds make an appointment for him to be neutered. absolutely!
Thank you, again, for your assistance.
Mary - 10 Mar 2004 17:05 GMT "Nomen Nescio" <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1
> We've got a big > old tomcat that chases every cat in the area and I've seen him in > some real battles. He's a mean little SOB. Particularly since he bit TK in the butt! No fair! ;)
Karen Chuplis - 10 Mar 2004 12:37 GMT > Well, the plot thickens. > Monday morning at 6:00, my wife was making coffee and the cat was sitting [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > My thanks to all of you for your thoughts, advice, and good wishes. Norman, do not get too worried about the rabies. I bet if you look up your county statistics, few, if any, *cats* have been reported with rabies. While that is a *possibility* I think it is a slim one. Too many countless thousands of people have taken in cats for you to worry in that way. I'm glad the bite is looked after and kitty is settling in.
Karen
Nomen Nescio - 10 Mar 2004 14:30 GMT From: Karen Chuplis <kchuplis@alltel.net>
>Norman, do not get too worried about the rabies. I bet if you look up your >county statistics, few, if any, *cats* have been reported with rabies. While >that is a *possibility* I think it is a slim one. Too many countless >thousands of people have taken in cats for you to worry in that way. Right, a lot of cats, almost no cases in the past couple of years. We had quite an outbreak a few years ago that killed an estimated 80% of the raccoon population, so it is still a concern in this area. Obviously, if I thought it was a big danger, I might have chosen "step one" in the protocol. But the fact that rabies is 100% fatal has made the vets recommendation to get ourselves vaccinated seem reasonable. The extra "just in case" insurance wouldn't hurt and I'd worry a lot less about the nips and scratches that will be inevitable in this relationship.
> I'm >>glad the bite is looked after and kitty is settling in. >> >>Karen He's settling in, alright! The little guy should be in control of the house in a couple of weeks. <g> He really wants to come upstairs, but he's going to be stuck down there with the "old" furniture until the wound stops seeping. He's been real good about sleeping on the towels, though.
Thank you for the reassurance.
Sharon Talbert - 10 Mar 2004 20:51 GMT Poor you! Lucky cat! Don't worry over-much about the rabies thing. I'm just glad the cat is now safely with you.
Six months, by the way, seems excessive as a quarantine period. I hope your message generates some discussion about rabies.
It's been a while since I've had any dealing with cat bite and rabies protocol. Some five years ago or more, Campus Cats took on a feral kitten from King County Animal Control that had bitten a groundskeeper at a local community college when he grabbed hold of it. King County's practice was to hold the animal for 10 days then make a decision. Fearing for the kitten's life, Campus Cats asked to take custody of her when she had served her time. We had little to worry about; the kitten not only continued healthy but by the time she was ready for release she had been thoroughly tamed by the staff and came out of jail riding on the shoulders of her keeper. We named her Sing Sing (she was a blue point Siamese mix) and found her a wonderful home.
Sharon Talbert Friends of Campus Cats Seattle
Wendy - 10 Mar 2004 23:14 GMT > Poor you! Lucky cat! Don't worry over-much about the rabies thing. I'm > just glad the cat is now safely with you. > > Six months, by the way, seems excessive as a quarantine period. I hope > your message generates some discussion about rabies. Six months sounds a little long to me as well. We adopted Ralf in N. New Jersey. At the time they had rabies in the area and had to quarantine the strays. They had Ralf in quarantine for 11 weeks. They said he had another week to go but they didn't seem too worried at that point and let us take him home. I guess each area has different regulations.
W
Mary - 11 Mar 2004 01:13 GMT 6 months is a long time for quarantine.
Several years ago, I was bitten/scratched accidentally by a stray we fed. Since he broke my skin, I went to the ER. We tried to catch the cat to bring him to the vet, but he was too smart. He managed to eat all the tuna in the Hav-A-Heart trap for a week without setting it off.
The vet and the County Health Department told me not to worry, just to let them know if I saw the cat... if he was still alive. If I hadn't seen him trotting around the yard after a certain period of time, I would have had to get the shots. (I think it was 10 days or 2 weeks.) After that, I was told there was no problem. He was fine, and so was I.
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