 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneral TopicsCat AnecdotesHealth and BehaviorRescue CatKB.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / March 2004Need suggestions on a New food
I have a 9yo neutered male cat that needs a food change. He's been on Hill's Prescription Diet CD/S dry food (for struvite crystals/stones) for about 7 years. He's always hungry but he doesn't like his food anymore, he prefers eating the regular cat food. The vet said I could try another brand for urinary problems or let him go back to regular cat food. The problem is that I believe he may be allergic to something in his food (possibly corn). He sneezes, has a thick discharge from his eyes, sheds like crazy which he never did before, and he vomits occasionally. Neither vet can find what causes these problems. He had a blood test and that came back fine. He stays indoors and there's nothing inside that would be causing these reactions except his food. So I would like to find a cat food for his urinary problems and for what appears to be either a food allergy or sensitive stomach. I've looked at IVD, Hill's Prescription Diet, Waltham, and Nature's Recipe brands but wasn't particularly impressed with any of them. I think I'd like to stay away from the Hill's if I can. Nature's Recipe and Waltham's don't look to good for his particular problem (but I'm no expert), so that leaves me with IVD. There were three of those that I looked at which were the Therapeutic Control (for struvite and oxalate stones), Therapeutic Neutral (for gastrointestinal disorders), and Limited Ingredient Diets (for adverse reactions to food). Anyone have any suggestions on what food I should feed this poor kitty or what foods/brands I should stay away from? Anyone have any comments on the IVD foods I mentioned? Can I feed him a mix of say the Therapeutic Control and Therapeutic Neutral or would that be bad? I will be feeding him dry food only as he gets spoiled and behaves very badly when I feed him canned food. The vets made a few suggestions but said the choice would have to be mine. I'm just looking for other people's opinions, experiences, and greater knowledge to help make my final decision. Thanks I would let him "behave badly" for a while and get him on canned food. The extra water in the canned food helps prevent crystal formation. Try Wellness chicken or turkey flavors. Avoid Nutro and Iams. Another good brand is Innova but my cats prefer the Wellness. -MIKE > I would let him "behave badly" for a while and get him on canned food. > The extra water in the canned food helps prevent crystal formation. Try > Wellness chicken or turkey flavors. Avoid Nutro and Iams. Just curious, why do you say Nutro and Iams should be avoided? > Another good brand is Innova but my cats prefer the Wellness. > > -MIKE >> I would let him "behave badly" for a while and get him on canned food. >> The extra water in the canned food helps prevent crystal formation. Try >> Wellness chicken or turkey flavors. Avoid Nutro and Iams. > >Just curious, why do you say Nutro and Iams should be avoided? Both have switched to 'least cost formulation' which is when the proportions of the ingredients change with market prices. Not a good thing. Nutro used to be very very good, but they've gone way downhill recently. They've also got a *lot* of corn and corn products in their food -- something that causes a lot of problems in cats. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid > >> I would let him "behave badly" for a while and get him on canned food. > >> The extra water in the canned food helps prevent crystal formation. Try [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > downhill recently. They've also got a *lot* of corn and corn products > in their food -- something that causes a lot of problems in cats. I understand about the corn and the problems it can cause, but as ---MIKE--- was suggesting a canned food such as Wellness, I got the impression when he said to avoid the other two, he was meaning their canned food. The dry portion of my cats diet comes from Wellness and the canned from Nutro and Iams as she can't stand any of the Wellness flavours. >From: Orchid neko@ascendancy.net >>> I would let him "behave badly" for a while and get him on canned food. >>> The extra water in the canned food helps prevent crystal formation. Try [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >downhill recently. They've also got a *lot* of corn and corn products >in their food -- something that causes a lot of problems in cats. Also, IAMS does animal testing: http://www.uncaged.co.uk/iams.htm Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm (...) > Both have switched to 'least cost formulation' which is when > the proportions of the ingredients change with market prices. Do we actually know this is true? I.e., what's the evidence? > Not a > good thing. Nutro used to be very very good, but they've gone way > downhill recently. They've also got a *lot* of corn and corn products > in their food -- something that causes a lot of problems in cats. Mind you, all dry food contains lots of carbs. Steve. >(...) >> >> Both have switched to 'least cost formulation' which is when >> the proportions of the ingredients change with market prices. > >Do we actually know this is true? I.e., what's the evidence? No hard and firm evidence, but instead something that vey much sets off the warning bells. Nutro used to happily supply the proximate data analysis sheets to those who asked for them (the nutrient values for the formula of the food) -- which all companies who use fixed formulation do, IME. However, they recently refused my vet a copy of it (He wanted one after we had an argument about Ca-P ratios in their foods). He called them several times, and one of the people he talked to accidentally let something quite damning slip. The rep said, 'Sorry, but it's not possible to make those any more'. When he pressed for an explanation of that (as the only reason it's not possible to do a proximate analysis sheet is the use of least cost formulation), the rep changed the song totally, and started saying that they just couldn't do that any more. Like I said, not hard and firm, but IMO, it's walking, quacking, and swimming like a duck so........ >> Not a >> good thing. Nutro used to be very very good, but they've gone way >> downhill recently. They've also got a *lot* of corn and corn products >> in their food -- something that causes a lot of problems in cats. > >Mind you, all dry food contains lots of carbs. Yes, but corn is a particularly bad carb, and they use corn in their wet food as well. Corn is the carb that si most difficult for cats to digest, and it causes more problems than any other kind of grain. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid >From: Orchid neko@ascendancy.net >>Mind you, all dry food contains lots of carbs. > > Yes, but corn is a particularly bad carb, and they use corn in >their wet food as well. Corn is the carb that si most difficult for >cats to digest, and it causes more problems than any other kind of >grain. and is very cheap compared to adding meat. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >>From: Orchid neko@ascendancy.net >> Yes, but corn is a particularly bad carb, and they use corn in >>their wet food as well. Corn is the carb that si most difficult for >>cats to digest, and it causes more problems than any other kind of >>grain. Which is just not true. Orchid, I'm curious to know why you think this is the case? Corn has a lot more "good" properties than "bad". Yet for some reason it is implicated by people by word of mouth only. Can you point to any hard evidence that supports your opinion? I'm just curious. >and is very cheap compared to adding meat. Duh. Talk about the obvious! Is this the "excellent information" that you're lauded for so heavily on this ng? LOL >From: gaubster2@aol.com (GAUBSTER2) >>and is very cheap compared to adding meat. > >Duh. Talk about the obvious! Is this the "excellent information" that >you're >lauded for so heavily on this ng? LOL Your obsession is showing again :) ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >>>and is very cheap compared to adding meat. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Your obsession is showing again :) >________ No, but once again you are showing that you have no substance to your posts! ;) (...) > No hard and firm evidence, but instead something that vey much > sets off the warning bells. Nutro used to happily supply the > proximate data analysis sheets (...) > However, they recently refused my vet a copy of it (He wanted > one after we had an argument about Ca-P ratios in their foods). (...) > Like I said, not hard and firm, but IMO, it's walking, > quacking, and swimming like a duck so........ Yes, I would be suspicious of this, too. What about Iams? I would be surprised if they were not fixed formula, though since I don't feed Iams (and don't intend to start) it's not something I've chased up myself. I'll note in passing here that Petguard refused to release the prox analysis of their canned foods to me a while back. They claimed this was because the values are 'proprietary', but perhaps it's because they are not working to fixed formula? (...) > Yes, but corn is a particularly bad carb, and they use corn in > their wet food as well. Corn is the carb that si most difficult for > cats to digest, and it causes more problems than any other kind of > grain. The digestibility of corn is generally worse than meat - but not a lot worse, at least according to the papers I've read (e.g., the Funaba papers in Am J Vet Res 2002, 63: 1247-1251 and J Vet Med Sci 2001, 63: 1355-1357). These papers do suggest that, all else being equal, meat is a more appropriate food component than corn, but Funaba isn't really indicating that corn is likely to cause major 'problems'. Philosophically, corn is a wierd thing to feed to a carnivore, but odd though it may be, and as non-ideal as it may be ... it's by no means a death sentence! Steve. > Yes, but corn is a particularly bad carb, and they use corn in > their wet food as well. Corn is the carb that si most difficult for > cats to digest, and it causes more problems than any other kind of > grain. > > Orchid Orchid, That's simply incorrect. Corn is less difficult to digest than any other grain except rice and the difference between the two is measured in 1/10ths of a percent. Corn provides 5 times the essential fatty acids as rice. The carbohydrate fraction of corn is about 99% digestible in cats, like all grains. The protein fraction of corn is more digestible than any other grain. At present there is not a single case anywhere in the literature of a cat with a corn adverse reaction to food. Certainly there are some cats out there who do have corn ARF, but compared to all the other grains it is so small it's not even measurable. >From: littleboyblu87@yahoo.com (Mike) >He's been on >Hill's Prescription Diet CD/S dry food (for struvite crystals/stones) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >discharge from his eyes, sheds like crazy which he never did before, >and he vomits occasionally. Hill's does have a lot of corn in it. There's Wellness, or there's one called Precise. Then there's also Nature's Variety, Innova, Felidae and Pet Guard. You probably won't be able to find these foods in a regular pet supply store, but rather in one of the smaller ones, or at a health food market like Whole Foods. Remember to switch him over slowly by adding a very small amount to the new food, gradually increasing the amount of new to old, until you have all new. I would highly recommend a canned diet for him if he's had crystal problems. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >Hill's does have a lot of corn in it. Which products? Their entire line, or just certain products? Then, perhaps somebody would like to show the peer-reviewed published research that indicts corn as an "unhealthy ingredient"? Because research shows just the opposite. A blanket statement such as yours above doesn't provide a whole lot of help to people who are looking for solid advice. :( As for corn allergies in cats--I believe they are very rare indeed. According to Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, IV....Beef, Dairy Products and Fish make up over 89% of reported cases of adverse reactions to ingredients. Chicken and Poultry products seem to make up the rest of that percentage. I don't see corn in there anywhere. >From: gaubster2@aol.com (GAUBSTER2) >>From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) > >>Hill's does have a lot of corn in it. > >Which products? Their entire line, or just certain products? LMAO, surely you should know the answer. >Which products? Their entire line, or just certain products? Then, perhaps >somebody would like to show the peer-reviewed published research that indicts [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >corn >in there anywhere. If you didn't have such a huge comprehension problem, and such a need to respond to any post I make, and if you weren't so obsessed with me, you would have realized the OP said it was suspected the cat has an allergy to corn. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >>>Hill's does have a lot of corn in it. >>Which products? Their entire line, or just certain products? > >LMAO, surely you should know the answer. ...and apparently you don't, or you would have answered by now. >>As for corn allergies in cats--I believe they are very rare indeed. >>According [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>corn >>in there anywhere. >If you didn't have such a huge comprehension problem, and such a need to >respond to any post I make, and if you weren't so obsessed with me, you would >have realized the OP said it was suspected the cat has an allergy to corn. <sigh> Yes, Lauren, I addressed that. (and you think *I* have the comprehension problem, LOL!) See above. Again, I'll repeat: >>A blanket statement such as yours above doesn't provide a whole lot of help >>to >>people who are looking for solid advice. :( Perhaps you can try harder next time? ;) >I have a 9yo neutered male cat that needs a food change. He's been on >Hill's Prescription Diet CD/S dry food (for struvite crystals/stones) [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >Thanks Check out Royal Canin. We have had good luck with it and most cats that I have given it to seem to like the taste. They have several formulas for specific needs. Tell us what you think after you look at it, please. I've noticed a few things with this cat and I wonder if it relates to the food or not. 1. If I put dry food in the cat's bowl he'll eat it and leave some in it. Then maybe 30 minutes later or less, he'll be hungry again but doesn't want what's left in the bowl, he wants fresh food from the bag. 2. When he goes to eat the dry food, he seems to eat it weird. I've been around many, many cat's my whole life and I've never seen a cat eat like this except for my 13 year old cat who had really bad teeth. But I get the impression that this cat's teeth may hurt when he eats the dry food. When he eats, he also leaves little pieces of food (crumbs), which I've never ever seen a cat do. I don't recall him ever doing these things several years ago. I really hope he doesn't have bad teeth. Especially at such a fairly young age since cat's are living into the upper teens nowadays. I'll call the vet Monday and see if he needs a dental x-ray. Any ideas what all this means? Any similar experiences with your cat(s)? Also, is there a chart or something that shows daily nutritional requirements for cats? I have no idea how much protein, magnesium, etc. they're supposed to get everyday, If I new that would be helpful. And finally, I notice that a lot of the premium foods such as Eukanuba and Royal Canin say that some of their foods promote a lower urine pH. So what's the difference between those and the prescription foods that do the same thing? > I have a 9yo neutered male cat that needs a food change. He's been on > Hill's Prescription Diet CD/S dry food (for struvite crystals/stones) [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Thanks circa 7 Mar 2004 02:39:11 -0800, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Mike (littleboyblu87@yahoo.com) said, > 2. When he goes to eat the dry food, he seems to eat it weird. I've > been around many, many cat's my whole life and I've never seen a cat [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > living into the upper teens nowadays. I'll call the vet Monday and see > if he needs a dental x-ray. Get his teeth checked out just in case, but it is perfectly normal for cats to leave crumbs. Laura  SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > I have a 9yo neutered male cat that needs a food change. He's been on > Hill's Prescription Diet CD/S dry food (for struvite crystals/stones) [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > So I would like to find a cat food for his urinary problems and for > what appears to be either a food allergy or sensitive stomach. Mike, if you really think your cat has a food allergy, then I would discuss a food elimination trial with your vet to see if your cat really is allergic to corn, or something else. It will be worth it in the long run, believe me! :) > I've looked at IVD, Hill's Prescription Diet, Waltham, and Nature's > Recipe brands but wasn't particularly impressed with any of them. I [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > looking for other people's opinions, experiences, and greater > knowledge to help make my final decision. I would *highly* recommend a canned food diet, as the extra water your cat gets will really help alleviate his problem. Then you may not need a prescription diet at all! Which will be good, apparently, for kitty's appetite and your wallet. :) I personally feed my cats Wellness dry and wet, which they love - plus Precise wet sometimes for a little variety. Good luck! Karen > Thanks > I have a 9yo neutered male cat that needs a food change. He's been on > Hill's Prescription Diet CD/S dry food (for struvite crystals/stones) [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Recipe brands but wasn't particularly impressed with any of them. I > think I'd like to stay away from the Hill's if I can. smart man. Nature's Recipe > and Waltham's don't look to good for his particular problem (but I'm > no expert), so that leaves me with IVD. i have had luck with waltham - your vet can be a good resource as to whether or not it is a good choice - it is a lot more palatable than Hill's IME. -L. >From: usenetlyn@yahoo.com (-L. :) >> I've looked at IVD, Hill's Prescription Diet, Waltham, and Nature's >> Recipe brands but wasn't particularly impressed with any of them. I >> think I'd like to stay away from the Hill's if I can. > >smart man. ...and why is that?
|
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.