It's about you needing to talk it out, feel it and try to understand it. You
already know, in your head, what you need to do, so you're trying to help
your heart get there.
I am so sorry this is happening for you and Nic. It is heartbreaking to lose
such a beloved pet, for they are not only our pets, our family, but a part
of us as well and they own our hearts.
Let him cross the rainbow bridge in your arms, you who has loved him truly
and best for his whole life.
((hugs)) We'll be sending thoughts your way.

Hailey

It helps to talk it out with people who understand. We love our cats
as family, and they mean so much to us. I have to admit that the 3
worst days in my life are the days that I lost my 2 cats and my dog.

It is a very tough decision, and I know it is very hard for you.
You'll know if this is the right time to let him go. And while i know
it is hard not to feel guilty, try to let that go. I've made the
decision for two and lost the other one in the middle of the night. It
was a horrible death, truly the worst thing I have witnessed. Nothing
like the peaceful goodbyes with the other two.  

I have also found something that has really helped me with the
grieving process. I make a binder full of pictures and stories. I
write down all my memories and illustrate them with the pictures.
Then, I can go back and look at it anytime. I am amazed at how many
funny stories I wrote during my grief. It really helpedme to relive
those good times.

With my last loss, the stray cat I only had for 2 weeks, I didn't have
many stories, and only two pictures. So, I got a little treasure
chest, and my sister painted it to look like him. His name was Jasper,
so I now collect Jasper rocks and keep them in his treasure chest
along with a few momentos of him.

Meghan & the Zoo Crew  
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

Am sorry to hear about Nic. You are not alone.

Should I kill him now, when he's still a little

You mentioned later in your message that you work as a vet tech, and it
sounds like you have a good working relationship with the clinic.  It's time
to have a long, heart-to-heart talk with the vets there (if you haven't
already).  However, I believe that it is kinder to euthanize once you reach
the point where there is no quality of life for your beloved pet and no
reasonable chance to enhance that quality of life.  This is an incredibly
difficult decision -- something that is truly traumatic to the caregiver.
However, it is also a gift of love to spare the cat you love from living out
his last few days or weeks in pain.

And another part of me doesn't want my own

I think Nic would be much better off if you have a vet come to your home.
He will be in his own environment and will not face the fear of a last trip
to the dreaded TED (something that almost all pets seem to fear or dislike).
If this is a good clinic (and it sounds like it is), they will understand
your grief.  Do this for Nic!

No, they are not cruel.  They simply don't understand, in much the same way
that sometimes we can't find "the right words" when someone we love is faced
with a terminal illness.

I held each of my cats when the day finally came to put them to sleep
because I did not want them to be afraid.  It was very difficult for me, but
I considered that to be my "last gift of love" to them.

You have my deepest sympathy.  Right now, you need to consider what is best
for Nic -- and it is clear that that is what you are trying to do.

MaryL

Yes, Sethran, I remember your posts well and remember Nic. I am so sorry.

Sherry

Aww, Seth, I'm so sorry to hear this. I know how much Nic means to you. I
wish that somehow you could accept that ends are not evil, they are simply
part of who we are, even though we hate them. Please, please post here as
often as you need through this crisis. As bad as Nic feels, it seems you
feel worse and I'm *CERTAIN* Nic does not want this. No kitty wants there
friend to feel bad or they wouldn't be such wonderful companions in bad
times, sticking by our side. It doesn't make it easier, it doesn't make it
feel right, but to know that Nic has had a long and loved life, so much more
than many people or animals get in this world has to mean something in the
world. This probably means nothing to you right now, or makes you even
madder but it is the best advice I can give. My thoughts are with you.

Karen

If he is hiding, in pain, and has no quality life, I think it is time to put
him to sleep. This is the greatest gift you can give him when he is
suffering.
Gail

Aw, see, you went and made me cry first thing in the morning...

I know this must be hard, and I don't really have any sage advice, but
you guys are in my thoughts and prayers.

It's a tough decision. I had to let my Boots go to sleep. He couldn't eat, was
walking like he was in pain, he didn't want to sit on my lap, he started
hiding. On my third trip to the vet they finally realized it wasn't just a
stomach ache but cancer. By then his third eyelid was showing, his nose was
running, he couldn't really stand up and he howled like he was in pain and
wanted to die. I let him go to sleep.

I have other cats and I take them to this same vet. I even pick up ill
squirrels from here. These people understand death and grief. Instead of trying
to hold grief in as I usually do, I told myself that I will just cry my head
off. Just making that resolve helped a lot. Struggling to hold grief in just
cause more grief.

Seth,
You may find this article helpful. It was written about dogs, but it
applies to cats as well. I'm sorry that you and Nic are having to go
through this and I hope you will both find relief soon, whatever that
may be.

Megan

How Do You Know When It's Time?

I don't subscribe to the idea that dogs "will let us know when it's
time", at least not in any conscious sense on their part.   For one
thing, I've found in my years of counseling folks who have ill pets and
often accompanying them through the euthanasia process, that this notion
is often interpreted in a way that puts a lot of pressure on people when
they're already stressed and grief-stricken.  "What if I miss the
signs? He looked miserable yesterday but not today.  What if I act too
soon or not soon enough?  How could he ever let on that he wants it to
end?  But maybe I'm deluding myself that he feels better than he
does."
Dogs are not people.  We lovingly anthropomorphize our dogs during our
time together and there's no harm in that, even quite a bit of reward
for both them and us.  But the bottom line is that they are not people
and they don't think in the way people think.  (Many of us would argue
that that speaks to the superiority of dogs.) These amazing beings love
us and trust us implicitly.  It just isn't part of their awareness
that they should need to telegraph anything to us in order for their
needs to be met or their well-being ensured. They are quite sure that
we, as their pack leaders, operate only in their best interest at all
times.  Emotional selfishness is not a concept in dogdom and they
don't know how hard we sometimes have to fight against it ourselves.
Dogs also have no mindset for emotional surrender or giving up.  They
have no awareness of the inevitability of death as we do and they have
no fear of it.  It is fear that so often influences and aggravates our
perceptions when we are sick or dying and it becomes impossible to
separate the fear out from the actual illness after a while.   But
that's not the case with dogs.  Whatever we observe to be wrong with
our sick dogs, it's all illness.  And we don't even see the full
impact of that until it's at a very advanced point, because it's a dog's
nature to endure and to sustain the norm at all costs.  If that
includes pain, then that's the way it is.  Unlike us, they have never
learned that letting pain show, or reporting on it, may generate relief
or aid.  So they endure, assuming in their deepest doggy subconscious
that whatever we abide for them is what is to be abided.
If there is a "look in the eye", or an indication of giving up, that we
think we see from our beloved dogs, it isn't a conscious attitude on
their part or a decision to communicate something to us.  It's just an
indication of how tired and depleted they are.  But they don't know
there's any option other than struggling on, so that's what they do. 
We must assume that the discomfort we see is much less than the
discomfort they really feel.  And we do know of other options and it
is entirely our obligation to always offer them the best option for that
moment, be it further intervention, or none, or the gift of rest.
From the moment we embrace these animals when they first grace our
lives, every day is one day closer to the day they must abandon their
very temporary and faulty bodies and return to the state of total
perfection and rapture they have always deserved.  We march along one
day at a time, watching and weighing and continuing to embrace and
respect each stage as it comes.  Today is a good day.  Perhaps
tomorrow will be, too, and perhaps next week and the weeks or months
after.  But there will eventually be a winding down.  And we must
not let that part of the cycle become our enemy.
When I am faced with the ultimate decision about how I can best serve
the animal I love so much, I try to set aside all the complications and
rationales of what I may or may not understand medically and I try to
clear my mind of any of the confusions and ups and downs that are so
much a part of caring for a terminally ill pet.  This is hard to do,
because for months and often years we have been in this mode of weighing
hard data, labs, food, how many ounces did he drink, should he have his
rabies shot or not, etc.   But at some point it's time to put all of
that in the academic folder and open the spiritual folder instead.  At
that point we are wise to ask ourselves the question:  "Does he want
to be here today, to experience this day in this way, as much as I want
him to?"  
Remember, dogs are not afraid, they are not carrying anxiety and fear of
the unknown.  So for them it's only about whether this day holds
enough companionship and ease and routine so that they would choose to
have those things more than anything else and that they are able to
focus on those things beyond any discomfort or pain or frustration they
may feel. How great is his burden of illness this day, and does he
want/need to live through this day with this burden of illness as much
as I want/need him to?  If I honestly believe that his condition is
such, his pleasures sufficient, that he would choose to persevere, then
that's the answer and we press on.
If, on the other hand, I can look honestly and bravely at the situation
and admit that he, with none of the fear or sadness that cripples me,
would choose instead to rest, then my obligation is clear.  Because he
needs to know in his giant heart, beyond any doubt, that I will have the
courage to make the hard decisions on his behalf, that I will always put
his peace before my own, and that I am able to love him as unselfishly
as he has loved me.
After many years, and so very many loved ones now living on joyously in
their forever home in my heart, this is the view I take.  As my
veterinarian, who is a good and loving friend, injects my precious one
with that freedom elixir, I always place my hand on top of his hand that
holds the syringe.  He has chosen a life of healing animals and I know
how terribly hard it is for him to give up on one.  So I want to
shoulder that burden with him so he's not alone.  The law of my state
says the veterinarian is the one licensed to administer the shot, not
me.  But a much higher law says this is my ultimate gift to my dog and
the responsibility that I undertook on the day I welcomed that dog into
my life forever.
                              
-- Hilary Brown 

                                   

...  But there might be a few who

Sethran,
I remember you and Nic. My heart goes out to you during this most difficult
time.  I'm sorry I can't offer more than these words to comfort you and Nic.
Annie

Seth,
I do remember you and Nic. I'm so sorry about what you're going
through. I just put my wonderful dog to sleep after a recent diagnosis
of cancer, we had far too little time together. It's hard as hell to
watch a loved one die before your very eyes. I think another poster's
recommendation of talking to Nic's vets about this is a good one. For
me, knowing when it was time was defining the "essential Bubbas" -
what were the things that he couldn't live without, and when he
couldn't enjoy those anymore that would signal it was time. For Bubbas
it was going outside for a walk, and me. When he was in so much pain
he didn't recognize me and couldn't walk, I knew.

You'll be in my thoughts.

xoxo,
Karen

I remember you, & I remember Nic.  It's very difficult - sad, anxious,
worrisome, etc. - when CRF (or any chronic, fatal illness, I imagine) gets
to this stage, & trying to second-guess when the time is right for
euthanasia.

With my first CRF cat, she had that 'inward' look to her eyes one day; that
was my clue.  With my 2nd CRF cat, she was lying out on the porch sunning
herself, but began to go into respiratory distress: that was the signal, in
her case.

In both cases, they were probably at the approximate stage at which Nic is
now.  IOW, some normal things occurring, but many less than there used to
be.  When you know it's coming soon - a downward slope that isn't going to
go back up again - no matter what treatments are tried, and you have to try
& pinpoint the best time to say "That's it; this is the right time";
difficult, to say the least.

Also, re: euthanasia timing - I kept the image of my cats teetering on top
of a fence & wanted to catch them before they actually fell off the fence.
Don't know if that will help you at all...  With my first cat I truly think
I succeeded in 'catching' her in time; with my second cat, I think I missed
by about an hour.  IOW - I wish I'd somehow managed to take her in before
she went into respiratory distress - but in reality there was really no way
of knowing when that was going to happen.  Just do the best that you can.

If you can have the vet come to the house to do a home euthanasia, I
personally think that would be great.

If you go to the vet's, you can ask to arrange to leave (& perhaps even come
in) by a different entrance, have the bill mailed to you, etc., so that you
don't have to deal w/ all of the grief & the waiting room, front desk, etc.
at the same time. I've found my vets' office to be very accommodating about
it.  Also, both times I found that the time leading up to the euthanasia -
the days & weeks, were considerably more stressful than the actual
procedure.  I assume that YMMV, but some others have also echoed that
opinion.

Pets for Nic & my sympathies to you.

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon

I remember you and Nic.  I hope you can find some peace in the days
and weeks to come.  It's so hard to see our loved ones go.  I can tell
you liove him very much.

Take care,
Lyn

I'm so sorry about your buddy. I can't pretend to know what you're going
through, I haven't been there yet. The more I read these types of posts
though, the more I find myself praying that a jumbo jet drops an engine
on my house or something, while me and my babies are happily playing
together, unaware.......

(...)

A poignant post.

Hard though it may be, I think it's by far the best to err on the side
of killing early rather than waiting until he's on the edge of the
grave. Given your words above, I think you feel this too.

The cat has no concept of medical care, or of the possibility of
recovery, or any similar human pegs to hang hope onto. However, we can
also guess that they have no fear of death, and none of the
existential angst a dying human can feel. So for the cat death is just
a release from suffering, if their human acts in timely fashion. As
such, you can spare the cat the type of slow and terrible death that
many humans experience in their dotage.

(...)

You enjoyed the previous 15 years. You may suffer now, but your cat
will have given you more than his death can take away.

Steve.

Sethran,
I know how you feel.  I went through the same agonizing decision with my
Bogart about 2 years ago.  I know I did the right thing by ending his pain,
but it really hurt....still does.  My thoughts are with you during this
difficult time.

Sue

Sethran,

You and Nic are in my thoughts and prayers.

Linda

Sethran, you aren't alone.  As animal (or specifically cats here) most of
us know where you are right now. I'm so sorry about Nic and as others have
said, it is kinder to give him the best gift you can when it is time.

Cheryl

<< Most of you won't know me.  I haven't posted here for probably over a
year...my computer suffered a fatal crash and I never bothered to
rejoin my newsgroups after it was fixed.  But there might be a few who
remember my Nic...my beautiful boy. >>

I remember you, Seth.  In fact, I was wondering recently whatever became of
you.  I remember your Nic, too, and all you've gone through with him.  My
oldest kitty, Cory (18), who I will guiltily say is my favorite, we have a
special bond, is also not doing well right now although he seems to have perked
up from prednisone.  Cory doesn't really have a diagnosis, all his bloodwork
was normal, and I quit the testing after that.  I know how hard it is to know
when the time is "right."  You don't want to wait too long and, yet, you
certainly don't want it to be too soon when there is still a hope that they
might rally for awhile.  I was thinking of having Cory euthanized a couple of
weeks ago and now he's doing considerably better with the pred.  Cory was
vomiting, too, but they gave him reglan.  That helped a lot although he hates
it and now that he is responding so well to the pred, I'm going to experiment
with cutting back on the reglan.  Is Nic on either of those?  I know you're a
vet tech but my vets didn't think to give Cory pred; it was my idea.  I figure
that the slight chance of side effects is a worthwhile risk to take if it makes
him feel better.  Pred can do so many different things.

I do know, tho, how it feels...and it's all one can think about...at work...at
home...it's hard to enjoy life when one so close to you is not feeling well.  I
think if he's still having some good moments that it may not yet be time.  You
just have to be vigilant and do what you think is right, not letting others
sway you to do it before you or he are ready.  I guess I have no constructive
advice; I'm just sorry about Nic and I understand your pain and confusion and
worry.

Candace
(take the litter out before replying by e-mail)

See my cats:
http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace

"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other
than human."  (Loren Eisely)

Oh man Seth...it's been years since I saw your name...  I'm SOOOOOOOOO sorry
you're going through this.  I just had to have my Cleo cat PTS for renal
failure. It sucks, immensely, but it's better than the unending pain and
vomiting.  :-(

*HUGE HUG*

Peace,
Pen

{{{{{Sethran}}}}}}

I am so sorry about Nic.  I know how painful this must be for you,
having been there myself more than once.  And trying to make that last
decision is always terribly difficult.  Only you will know when the
time is right, and that is a hard burden to bear.

I wish I had wonderful calming words of wisdom to help you through
this, but I don't.  All I can tell you is that my heart goes out for
you, and I will light a candle for Nic.

Blessings,

Ginger-lyn

Can we not use the word kill when it comes to euthanizing? I am sorry to
hear about your cat going but sometimes it is a hard thing to go through. I
would talk to your feline and ask him if he is deciding to check out and
leave this plane of existance. I believe animals like people choose the time
in their lifetime that they wish to leave especially when it comes to a long
healthy life. I would actualloy take some of the people's advice who say
"enjoy the time you have left." It is not cruel because the animal too wants
to spend their last days with their loving humans. As for putting the animal
to sleep, I think doing it at home with their loving humans around is the
best way to go. The problem here is your cat seems to want to hold on for a
while longer. I would seriously talk with your feline (no joke) and tell
them that if they wish to leave this earth that you will be ok. Tell Nic
that you love him and will miss him. I think then you'll know that he has
chosen this as his time.