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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2004miane coon
Our Maine Coon boy died very suddenly in January just under 5 years old the cause was found to be cardiomyopathy We where not aware of any problems with the breed until it was too late. Thanks to lots of info on the internet. We are not really prepared to take the chance with another Maine Coon it would be to heart breaking if it happened again although we are not ready for another cat we have talked about Norwegians and Siberians is anybody aware of any problems with these breeds ? >Our Maine Coon boy died very suddenly in January just under 5 years >old the cause was found to be cardiomyopathy We where not aware of any [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Norwegians and Siberians is anybody aware of any problems with these >breeds ? If you are still interested in Maine Coons, talk to breeders about whether or not they do echocardiograms with color doppler. Responsible Maine Coon breeders do this yearly on breeding cats, and will be glad to talk about it with you and show you the test results. They also test for feline hip dysplasia and luxating patellas. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid >>Our Maine Coon boy died very suddenly in January just under 5 years >>old the cause was found to be cardiomyopathy We where not aware of any [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >will be glad to talk about it with you and show you the test results. >They also test for feline hip dysplasia and luxating patellas. As I noted in another thread, breeders of Maine Coon cats have a database in which they enter screening info for individual cats regarding test results for HCM and hip dysplasia. I've also seen one for Norwegian Forest Cats. Of course, any cat can develop HCM and even if you choose a kitten which has no hcm in its pedigree that's not a guarantee it will never have HCM, but you can find out whether there is a genetic propensity. I don't know about Siberians but yes, occasionally the inherited kind of HCM shows up in Norwegian Forest Cats. It does not seem to be so common as with Maine Coons, but that may be because Maine Coons have been the breed researchers have studied most to track inheritable HCM. > Our Maine Coon boy died very suddenly in January just under 5 years > old the cause was found to be cardiomyopathy We where not aware of any [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Norwegians and Siberians is anybody aware of any problems with these > breeds ? If you want to avoid getting your heart broken by the early death of your cat, why not forget about "pure bred" cats and adopt one of the lovely long-haired (etc.) cats currently in your local no-kill shelters or on death row at your local SPCA? Get a young adult that has been in a no-kill shelter for several months and you have a cat that is guaranteed to have good bathroom habits and to be wonderfully socialized by the volunteers who love them up every day. Heartbreak is watching these cats die every day while people PAY for in-bred cats that die young. >Heartbreak is watching these cats die every day while people PAY for >in-bred cats that die young. Excellent post. I won't be getting another cat for awhile. I have 3, and they'd kill me if I got another. But I plan to get most, if not all, of my future cats and dogs at shelters. Both my first and current shelties came from rescue. The first was probably a year old and considered a problem in the neighborhood. Bored shelties will get into trouble. She was an awesome dog, and while she did go blind at age 9, she was a wonderful dog, and I had her til she was 14. My current sheltie was rescued from an abusive home. It was a backyard breeder who saved her for breeding. If she was the best puppy, then I don't know what they had. She is a sweet, wonderful, and smart dog, but she would never do well in the conformation ring. Nice dog, but not the best physical example of a sheltie. I got her when she was 4, and she will be 12 in May. I went to the shelter with a friend of mine last week, and she is on the waiting list for a particular cat. He's a big boy, 14 lbs, not a Maine Coon, but a nice looking shorthair black and white cat. Very regal looking. Somebody else has him reserved, but they haven't had their appointment yet, so they may choose not to take him. If so, my friend is next in line. There are a lot of nice animals, whose only crime is to not be wanted. And with the adults, you can usually tell what you have in terms of behavior. And like you said, if they've been there awhile, they will be housetrained and socialized. Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >Heartbreak is watching these cats die every day while people PAY for > >in-bred cats that die young. > > Excellent post. I won't be getting another cat for awhile. I have 3, > and they'd kill me if I got another. But I plan to get most, if not > all, of my future cats and dogs at shelters. Good for you. I have never purchased an animal because my father was a big advocate, so I learned young. He actually placed an ad in the paper and took anyone's unwanted animals. The plan was to get them medical care and resell them for the cost of the care. What happened was we had a regular Noah's arc of creatures, but in the singular! Huge great danes with behavioral problems, tons of puppies and kittens, even a Mynah Bird. A nasty neighbor reported him (there was a three-dog rule in city limits) and he had to shut it down. But we had puppy pens in the basement and I got to play with a different puppy or kitten every day! I'll never forget what it was like when everyone was out in the big back yard playing. > Both my first and current shelties came from rescue. The first was > probably a year old and considered a problem in the neighborhood. > Bored shelties will get into trouble. Ha! You bet they will! > I went to the shelter with a friend of mine last week, and she is on > the waiting list for a particular cat. He's a big boy, 14 lbs, not a > Maine Coon, but a nice looking shorthair black and white cat. Very > regal looking. Somebody else has him reserved, but they haven't had > their appointment yet, so they may choose not to take him. If so, my > friend is next in line. I hope she gets him! > There are a lot of nice animals, whose only crime is to not be wanted. > And with the adults, you can usually tell what you have in terms of > behavior. And like you said, if they've been there awhile, they will > be housetrained and socialized. Man, my little Cheeky had been at the shelter for 4 months, and I know part of it is inborn temperament, but she does every thing but make me martinis. :) The most loving, funny, smart and gentle little cat. I feel blessed. >> I went to the shelter with a friend of mine last week, and she is on >> the waiting list for a particular cat. He's a big boy, 14 lbs, not a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I hope she gets him! Me too. I am so hopeful for her. She really liked him, and he is very special. He looked at me with this look (take me home). I told him I'm not the one to be asking, ask her. (I have 3 at home already). He turned to her and started over with the take me home look. He became more active, rubbing up against the cage, sticking his paw out, etc. He seemed to know this was his chance to impress. Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > He became > more active, rubbing up against the cage, sticking his paw out, etc. > He seemed to know this was his chance to impress. They really do. I can't even go to the shelters unless I can take a cat. They tear my heart out. Just choosing Cheeks was so hard. I "slept on it" over night but really didn't sleep at all. >> He became >> more active, rubbing up against the cage, sticking his paw out, etc. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >cat. They tear my heart out. Just choosing Cheeks was so hard. I >"slept on it" over night but really didn't sleep at all. There were 3 others. One was a 6 month old kitten who was cute and playful. And the other two were females who were pretty, but they were curled up sleeping. The one did finally get up and move around when teh kids came in. So, maybe they did well. This guy looked very proud, and very royal. He didn't strike me as a kid's cat, but as a good cat for a single lady to enjoy and pamper. My friend has one other cat, about the same age, who is overweight. He needs somebody to keep him more active while she is at work. But I think both would still be well pampered. Plenty of room to snuggle on her bed. And she will be off work for 3 months after a knee replacement, so she will have lots of time and could use the special company. Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > There were 3 others. One was a 6 month old kitten who was cute and > playful. And the other two were females who were pretty, but they were [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > work for 3 months after a knee replacement, so she will have lots of > time and could use the special company. Sounds like a match made in heaven. See if you can get your friend to post some photos, or links to photos! I'd love to see this boy. >Sounds like a match made in heaven. See if you can get your friend to >post some photos, or links to photos! I'd love to see this boy. If she gets him, I will post photos. I'm an animal photographer :) She'll know on Sunday whether the people ahead of her take him or not. Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com I went to the shelter with a friend of mine last week, and she is on > >> the waiting list for a particular cat. He's a big boy, 14 lbs, not a > >> Maine Coon, but a nice looking shorthair black and white cat. Very [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Equine and Pet Photography > http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Awww that is so cute :) I hope she wins :) He sounds like a keeper :) Meghan Noecker <friesian@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > Me too. I am so hopeful for her. She really liked him, and he is > very special. He looked at me with this look (take me home). I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > his paw out, etc. He seemed to know this was his chance to > impress. My sister did something similar. It's like kids on adoption day--they know it's time to turn on the charm. She started at one end and her husband started at the other. Two kittens turned it on and they ended up with two cats. Meghan Noecker <friesian@zoocrewphoto.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > Me too. I am so hopeful for her. She really liked him, and he is > very special. He looked at me with this look (take me home). I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > his paw out, etc. He seemed to know this was his chance to > impress. My sister did something similar. It's like kids on adoption day--they know it's time to turn on the charm. She started at one end and her husband started at the other. Two kittens turned it on and they ended up with two cats. Thats how we ended up going from a one cat family to a more than one cat family. When our cat died the dh and I went to get another cat. I wanted Tigger and he wanted Buffy. We couldn't decide so we brought home both. We stayed with just 2 cats for years until last fall. The dh was up at PetSmart to get KMR for the kittens and spotted Isabelle. Gotta keep that man out of PetSmart lol W "Mary" <rosefan@email.com> wrote in message news:<dQOYb.18120$%> > If you want to avoid getting your heart broken by the early death of > your cat, why not forget about "pure bred" cats and adopt one of the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Heartbreak is watching these cats die every day while people PAY for > in-bred cats that die young. He was our first pedigree cat we had a ginger tom who we got as an abandoned kitten he died 5 years ago at the age of 13 we still have a female tabby whos is 18 but sadly she has cancer of the colon and the time is getting close to saying goodby > "Mary" <rosefan@email.com> wrote in message news:<dQOYb.18120$%> > >> He was our first pedigree cat we had a ginger tom who we got as an > abandoned kitten he died 5 years ago at the age of 13 we still have a > female tabby whos is 18 but sadly she has cancer of the colon and the > time is getting close to saying goodby I see. I forgot to tell you that I am really sorry you lost both your Maine Coon and your lovely ginger boy. I have a special love of tabbies, and your poor little girl is very lucky to have you caring for her. Be sure to come here and talk to us. Nobody here will ever say "it was only a cat!" as we all know they are family members to anyone with a heart. When you are feeling low, go visit a no-kill shelter, and just get to know the kitties a little. What you need more than anything is a sweet, fun, affectionate darling that will be so grateful to you he will love you forever. You will be surprised at how the young adults are at these places. It is not like the pound where everyone is crying and screaming and barking. The animals are pretty packed in, but they are loved and socialized. The shelter owners can tell you all about them, where they were found, what they are like. You can know what you are getting, to a degree. One cat will come to you or look at you or lean into your hand when you pet him, and win your heart. Feb 2004: > When you are feeling low, go visit a no-kill shelter, and just get to > know the kitties a little. What you need more than anything is a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > are getting, to a degree. One cat will come to you or look at you or > lean into your hand when you pet him, and win your heart. There are quite a few areas where no-kill shelters are not available. These are only run by non-funded organizations where there is money and most are actually not really a shelter, but animals fostered in private homes. I've only seen one true no-kill shelter in my area here in the DC area and they can only house about 40 cats at a time. No, they aren't packed in, but they turn away many other needy cats. The foster situation is where the true rescuing takes place here.  SignatureCheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II > Feb 2004: > > > When you are feeling low, go visit a no-kill shelter, and just get to > > know the kitties a little. > There are quite a few areas where no-kill shelters are not available. These > are only run by non-funded organizations where there is money and most are > actually not really a shelter, but animals fostered in private homes. We have several in the Raleigh, NC area. Snowflake is my favorite. A married couple has given over their entire house to the rescues. They survive on private donations and volunteers. Some of the animals, including large dogs, are fostered out, but still appear on their web site and at the "Adopt-a-thons" held at PetSmarts etc. The upstairs of this house consists of one bathroom, a second-level screened porch where the cats can perch and get fresh air, watch birds and squirrells, etc and several bedrooms that have been converted into rooms for the cats. One is a sick room, and everyone wipes the bottoms of her shoes and her hands with disinfectant upon entering and leaving this room. Cats with colds or any type of infectious illness are kept there. The other rooms are floor to ceiling cages, with kitty beds and toys tucked in. Some cats are caged much of the time, some rarely, depending on their dispositions and how they do in the shelter environment. Local vets volunteer their services and volunteer cat box cleaners and feeders and "petters!" come around the clock on a set schedule. Here is a list of NC rescues and shelters: http://www.snowflakerescue.org/morelinks.htm Here is Snowflake's web site: http://www.snowflakerescue.org/ I've > only seen one true no-kill shelter in my area here in the DC area and they > can only house about 40 cats at a time. No, they aren't packed in, but > they turn away many other needy cats. The foster situation is where the > true rescuing takes place here. I think Snowflake is kind of like a giant, well-organized foster situation. Click on some of the photos and prepare to have your heart become a big puddle! I just noticed, for the first time, that Snowflake claims on their web site to have no "fixed location." I am not sure why that is, as every time I've sent people they have gone to the same house. The house has been renovated to accommodate the animals, too. Hmmm. "Mary" <rosefan@email.com> wrote in message news:<dQOYb.18120$%> > If you want to avoid getting your heart broken by the early death of > your cat, why not forget about "pure bred" cats and adopt one of the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Heartbreak is watching these cats die every day while people PAY for > in-bred cats that die young. He was our first pedigree cat we had a ginger tom who we got as an abandoned kitten he died 5 years ago at the age of 13 we still have a female tabby whos is 18 but sadly she has cancer of the colon and the time is getting close to saying goodby Mary <rosefan@email.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > Heartbreak is watching these cats die every day while people PAY for > in-bred cats that die young. You have a valid point, but sometimes, certain cat breed have specific traits that a family needs to have, like low shedding, calm termperament, etc., and the odds are a lot better getting a purebred known for having the traits than a shelter cat. Not 100%, but definitely better. > You have a valid point, but sometimes, certain cat breed have specific > traits that a family needs to have, like low shedding, calm > termperament, etc., and the odds are a lot better getting a purebred > known for having the traits than a shelter cat. Not 100%, but > definitely better. I wouldn't say that unless you meant kittens. Adopting an adult, you'd know temperament and coat type. Kittens, though, they can really change. My Mom's Louie started out with short hair when she adopted him (he was about 10 weeks old). He is now medium to long hair. My Rowan started out as the sweetest thing. Now she's a bitch to everyone but me. *LOL* Signature-- ~kaeli~ Contrary to popular opinion, the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'fact'. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > Mary <rosefan@email.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > known for having the traits than a shelter cat. Not 100%, but > definitely better. Nobody needs "certain traits" that bad. What's a little cat hair, anyway? Mary <rosefan@email.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > Nobody needs "certain traits" that bad. What's a little cat hair, > anyway? Nothing to me, I wear it every day, day in, day out... But my bosses wife, though a cat person, was allergic to cats. She bought Russian Blues because they are reputed to not trigger allergies. I'm not saying purebreds only, just saying that there is some justification for it. Mary <rosefan@email.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > Nobody needs "certain traits" that bad. What's a little cat hair, > anyway? Nothing to me, I wear it every day, day in, day out... But my bosses wife, though a cat person, was allergic to cats. She bought Russian Blues because they are reputed to not trigger allergies. I'm not saying purebreds only, just saying that there is some justification for it. and when those pure bred cats get out and mate with a "mutt" you get some really magnificent kittens :o) >If you want to avoid getting your heart broken by the early death of >your cat, why not forget about "pure bred" cats and adopt one of the >lovely long-haired (etc.) cats currently in your local no-kill >shelters or on death row at your local SPCA While I understand your sentiment, you surely must realize that even shelter cats can die young. HCM, for example, is not uncommon in mixed breed cats; the usual causes of early death are certainly not limited to purebred cats. While I can't argue with your desire to urge the OP to consider adopting a shelter cat, to imply this will guarantee the cat won't die young is inaccurate. > >If you want to avoid getting your heart broken by the early death of > >your cat, why not forget about "pure bred" cats and adopt one of the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > While I understand your sentiment, you surely must realize that even shelter > cats can die young. HCM Sure. I bypassed the entire issue because there is no blinking way that anyone can *ensure* that any animal is not going to die young. Genetically, mixed-breed cats that have usually drawn from a larger gene pool that the artificially bred are healthier. You never answered my question about being a breeder. You sure sound like one to me. >Sure. I bypassed the entire issue because there is no blinking way >that anyone can *ensure* that any animal is not going to die young. >Genetically, mixed-breed cats that have usually drawn from a larger >gene pool that the artificially bred are healthier. That's a far cry from telling someone that if they want to avoid the heartbreak of losing a cat to an early death they should get a shelter cat. >You never answered my question about being a breeder. You sure sound >like one to me. Of course I answered it, but since you seem to want to insinuate something, I'll answer it again. No, I'm not a breeder but I like to go to cat shows and have gotten acquainted with some breeders over the years. Same thing I told you last time. > >Sure. I bypassed the entire issue because there is no blinking way > >that anyone can *ensure* that any animal is not going to die young. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That's a far cry from telling someone that if they want to avoid the heartbreak > of losing a cat to an early death they should get a shelter cat. Re-read my post, genius. That is not what I said. > >You never answered my question about being a breeder. You sure sound > >like one to me. > > > Of course I answered it, but since you seem to want to insinuate something, > I'll answer it again. No, I'm not a breeder I see. >> >Sure. I bypassed the entire issue because there is no blinking way >> >that anyone can *ensure* that any animal is not going to die young. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Re-read my post, genius. That is not what I said. Okay, here is precisely what you said: "If you want to avoid getting your heart broken by the early death of your cat, why not forget about "pure bred" cats and adopt one of the lovely long-haired (etc.) cats currently in your local no-kill shelters or on death row at your local SPCA?" Once again, this is manipulative and inaccurate. "Forgetting about purebred cats" does not mean the OP will avoid having another cat succumb to an early death. Many a non purebred cat will turn out to have hcm or another health problem and die young, and the majority of purebred cats will live a normal lifespan. > "Mary" rosefan@email.com wrote: > While I understand your sentiment, you surely must realize that even shelter > cats can die young. HCM Sure. I bypassed the entire issue because there is no blinking way that anyone can *ensure* that any animal is not going to die young. Genetically, mixed-breed cats that have usually drawn from a larger gene pool that the artificially bred are healthier. Having your cats live longer might be over rated. It was a lot easier having previous cats die suddenly at 8, 9, 13 than watching Tiggy fail s l o w l y at 16. > > "Mary" rosefan@email.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > previous cats die suddenly at 8, 9, 13 than watching Tiggy fail s l o w > l y at 16. That is what euthanasia is for, although it takes courage. I had a friend who thought it terrible that I keep my cats in. She said that it was better for them to be outside (even in cities) where they could have a natural life, even if it meant a shorter life span. Her cats have generally just run away or gotten hit by cars and killed at about 5 or 6 years at the oldest. She went through six cats in the 20 years I had my Gnarly. I guess she wins, right? > That is what euthanasia is for, although it takes courage. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > at about 5 or 6 years at the oldest. She went through six cats in the > 20 years I had my Gnarly. I guess she wins, right? Oh MAN! I know you're being sarcastic, of course. But crikey, doesn't SHE see how sad that is. It's like the attitude "It's just a cat, I'll get another," Makes me sad :( Since I joined the list and talked about my two babies, Tucker and James, we've been steadily encouraging James that yes, he *does* want to be an indoor kitty. He's 5 next month and he's always been allowed out, but, in case folks don't recall (one of my MANY questions) he had suddenly started wanting to stay in ALL the time. He wants to be in oh, probably about 80-90% of the time. Some days 100% We never have left him out at night, unless he would not come in by the time we go to bed. It's rare though. And of course we don't allow him out at all when the temp dips. Anyway, LOL I seem to be babbling again. I just wanted to mention that James is just as happy in as out, which surprises me to no end. Tucker cries all the time since the weather started improving, HE wants OUT! Hailey > > While I understand your sentiment, you surely must realize that even > shelter > > cats can die young. HCM [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Having your cats live longer might be over rated. It was a lot easier having > previous cats die suddenly at 8, 9, 13 than watching Tiggy fail s l o w > l y at 16. That is what euthanasia is for, although it takes courage. I had a friend who thought it terrible that I keep my cats in. She said that it was better for them to be outside (even in cities) where they could have a natural life, even if it meant a shorter life span. Her cats have generally just run away or gotten hit by cars and killed at about 5 or 6 years at the oldest. She went through six cats in the 20 years I had my Gnarly. I guess she wins, right? That's not what I meant. My cats are inside cats because I don't want them exposed to the risks that I know are out there. Too many cars, too many kids, too many chemicals left out, too many outside cats that would love to beat the tar out of a slower cat. I was just commenting on how difficult it is this time to watch poor Tig lose it. She just isn't herself or what she used to be at any rate. And it's hard to know when enough is enough. She might be perfectly happy sleeping her life away. And as long as she is able to get around I have to assume she's not in too much pain. I have noticed when she's on my lap that she isn't still though. She shifts position regularly which indicates that she ISN'T comfortable. I've had to ban her from "her" room (my bedroom) because of her peeing in there. I'm hoping things will look up once the weather warms up. I guess what is getting to me is that her only problem is the arthritis. I mean who dies of arthritis? Although now that I think about it I've known a couple of people who had it so bad dying looked good. So how do you know when enough is enough? W > That's not what I meant. I know! I was just mentioning the only other time I had heard someone make an argument for why shorter lives might be preferable. I know what you mean, it is sad to watch a living creature wane. > I was just commenting on how difficult it is this time to watch poor Tig > lose it. She just isn't herself or what she used to be at any rate. And it's > hard to know when enough is enough. She might be perfectly happy sleeping > her life away. Oh, Wendy, I'm so sorry. This has to be hard. Although Gnarly lived to be 20, her quality of life had not diminished. Toward the last, my husband could not believe she was seriously ill because she still jumped so high and ran around so much. She ran on sheer meanness, I swear! But I could tell by her eyes she was getting ready to go. >And as long as she is able to get around I have to assume > she's not in too much pain. I have noticed when she's on my lap that she > isn't still though. She shifts position regularly which indicates that she > ISN'T comfortable. I've had to ban her from "her" room (my bedroom) because > of her peeing in there. The inappropriate elimination problem is the pits. I had one cat that did that and would not stop over a two year period no matter what we tried--she is a barn cat now, happy and healthy, on my brother's farm. (The vet said that certain cats just "prefere to pee on fabric." She preferred my BED!) If I couldn't have my cats in my room to cuddle in bed I would hate it. One thing, and I don't know if this will be helpful at all. I have heard of lots of cats peeing on bathroom mats and rugs. Sometimes I wonder if all the scents in a bathroom don't sometimes confuse or agitate them. I don't keep any of my boxes in the bathroom. I keep Cheeky's in my bedroom, front and center by a bureau, and I keep it really clean. Also, I have hardwood floors. I've rarely heard of a cat that liked to pee on bare wood! (Toms like to spray furniture at times, though.) Maybe carpet is just too retentive of too many smells, and so too tempting. Buddha's box is in the utility room on a tile floor. She once peed on the carpet in the family room but it was because her box was not clean enough. > I'm hoping things will look up once the weather > warms up. I guess what is getting to me is that her only problem is the > arthritis. I mean who dies of arthritis? Although now that I think about it > I've known a couple of people who had it so bad dying looked good. > > So how do you know when enough is enough? She is your baby, and you will know when her life gets to the point that she is suffering more than enjoying. I encourage you not to give up on the inappropriate peeing--can you try getting rid of some carpet or rugs in your room, or perhaps keeping the main box somewhere besides the bathroom? I think you and Tig would both be happier if she could sleep with you. > That's not what I meant. I know! I was just mentioning the only other time I had heard someone make an argument for why shorter lives might be preferable. I know what you mean, it is sad to watch a living creature wane. > I was just commenting on how difficult it is this time to watch poor Tig > lose it. She just isn't herself or what she used to be at any rate. And it's > hard to know when enough is enough. She might be perfectly happy sleeping > her life away. Oh, Wendy, I'm so sorry. This has to be hard. Although Gnarly lived to be 20, her quality of life had not diminished. Toward the last, my husband could not believe she was seriously ill because she still jumped so high and ran around so much. She ran on sheer meanness, I swear! But I could tell by her eyes she was getting ready to go. >And as long as she is able to get around I have to assume > she's not in too much pain. I have noticed when she's on my lap that she > isn't still though. She shifts position regularly which indicates that she > ISN'T comfortable. I've had to ban her from "her" room (my bedroom) because > of her peeing in there. The inappropriate elimination problem is the pits. I had one cat that did that and would not stop over a two year period no matter what we tried--she is a barn cat now, happy and healthy, on my brother's farm. (The vet said that certain cats just "prefere to pee on fabric." She preferred my BED!) If I couldn't have my cats in my room to cuddle in bed I would hate it. One thing, and I don't know if this will be helpful at all. I have heard of lots of cats peeing on bathroom mats and rugs. Sometimes I wonder if all the scents in a bathroom don't sometimes confuse or agitate them. I don't keep any of my boxes in the bathroom. I keep Cheeky's in my bedroom, front and center by a bureau, and I keep it really clean. Also, I have hardwood floors. I've rarely heard of a cat that liked to pee on bare wood! (Toms like to spray furniture at times, though.) Maybe carpet is just too retentive of too many smells, and so too tempting. Buddha's box is in the utility room on a tile floor. She once peed on the carpet in the family room but it was because her box was not clean enough. > I'm hoping things will look up once the weather > warms up. I guess what is getting to me is that her only problem is the > arthritis. I mean who dies of arthritis? Although now that I think about it > I've known a couple of people who had it so bad dying looked good. > > So how do you know when enough is enough? She is your baby, and you will know when her life gets to the point that she is suffering more than enjoying. I encourage you not to give up on the inappropriate peeing--can you try getting rid of some carpet or rugs in your room, or perhaps keeping the main box somewhere besides the bathroom? I think you and Tig would both be happier if she could sleep with you. Well now I'm trying Odorzout. My niece assures me that this stuff works. She had an older dog she just inherited peeing in her daughters room and used this stuff. Its a dry granulated appearing powder so I don't have to saturate the rug - again. I swear one more saturation and my year old carpeting will rot and then I won't have to debate whether to leave it down or not. I first used the Natures Miracle. No miracle there it just spread the smell over a larger area. Then I tried Simple Solution which helped but not entirely. I got some industrial strength foam odor remover at Home Depot and that almost did the trick - almost. So now this. I get to vacuum it up tomorrow so we'll see. If I can get the stink out I might be able to let her back in there during the day at least. I really don't care if she pees on the bathroom mat. The mat can go in the washer and the floor is ceramic tile so it's easy enought to clean up. For that matter I can remove the rug and just put down a towel when people are using the shower. She doesn't pee on the towels - just the fluffy mat. Now I have the debate whether we should leave her home when we go on vacation this summer or take her with us. I wonder which would be less stressful, the ride in the car or leaving her home with my son and expecting him to take care of her. I don't know whether she will let him give her the cosequin. I guess I'll have to have him try it. She won't take it from the dh. He tries it and it's like the old joke about how to give a cat a pill. Push comes to shove I guess he can open the capsules and mix it into her food. W "Wendy" <wendypart@nospam.com> wrote : > Well now I'm trying Odorzout. My niece assures me that this stuff works. She > had an older dog she just inherited peeing in her daughters room and used [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > tomorrow so we'll see. If I can get the stink out I might be able to let her > back in there during the day at least. I hope you can. I didn't realize that the carpet was new. What a shame. > I really don't care if she pees on the bathroom mat. The mat can go in the > washer and the floor is ceramic tile so it's easy enought to clean up. For > that matter I can remove the rug and just put down a towel when people are > using the shower. She doesn't pee on the towels - just the fluffy mat. The trouble is, if she gets used to peeing on rugs, she is going to pee on *all* rugs. My husband lets Boo sharpen claws on his office carpet but yells at her when she does it on the living room carpet. At which point I tell him he is a bonehead. :) Boo cannot distinguish between them! She has a little cat brain! I guess part of the reason it is easy for me to forgo the carpet in most rooms of the house is that i have dust and mold allergies, and hardwoods are such a relief. > Now I have the debate whether we should leave her home when we go on > vacation this summer or take her with us. I wonder which would be less [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Push comes to shove I guess he can open the capsules and mix it into her > food. I vote you leave her home. Much less stressful. "Wendy" <wendypart@nospam.com> wrote : I hope you can. I didn't realize that the carpet was new. What a shame. > I really don't care if she pees on the bathroom mat. The mat can go in the > washer and the floor is ceramic tile so it's easy enought to clean up. For > that matter I can remove the rug and just put down a towel when people are > using the shower. She doesn't pee on the towels - just the fluffy mat. The trouble is, if she gets used to peeing on rugs, she is going to pee on *all* rugs. My husband lets Boo sharpen claws on his office carpet but yells at her when she does it on the living room carpet. At which point I tell him he is a bonehead. :) Boo cannot distinguish between them! She has a little cat brain! I guess part of the reason it is easy for me to forgo the carpet in most rooms of the house is that i have dust and mold allergies, and hardwoods are such a relief. Yes the rug is new :o( We live in a rancher and have no basement. The floors get realllllllly cold without the carpet. She hasn't peed in the bathroom too much. It started last summer when we were on vacation. At that time we were putting Ralf in the laundry room (which is where the box was at that time) overnight so he wouldn't continue to pick at the new living room carpeting. My son didn't get up early enough to let Ralf out and Tiggy in so she peed on the bathroom mat. Once I discovered what was going on we added the litter box in the kitchen and that took care of that for the time being. Then last fall all bets were off. It started out benign enough. We ended up bottle feeding a litter of kittens. This didn't seem to upset Tiggy because they were confined and didn't cramp her style. Then the dh decided to bring Isabelle home. We kept her separated from Tiggy and Ralf and introduced them slowly and all seemed to be OK. Then Ralf got sick and died and Tiggy lost her buddy. I think he was providing her with security - she and Ralf outnumbering Isabelle. When Ralf died we ended up keeping one of the kittens (Boots). Then the weather changed and Tigs arthritis got bad. That's when she started peeing in the bedroom. Had I known she was going to have such a bad winter (or that the new cats would stress her out and cause her to have such a bad winter) I never would have brought them into the house. However, at this point it's water over the dam. So the feliway diffuser is running and we do the best we can. Tig and Isabelle can eat at the same time and we patrol to make sure Issy doesn't swipe Tiggy's food. Tiggy and Boots do sleep together from time to time. He just drives her bats when he's "frisky". I run interference best I can. Fortunately I work from home and am here most of the time. At any rate we set up the bathroom box some time last fall when the cat population increased. They all seem to prefer it. Doesn't matter which box is in there (new covered, old covered or uncovered) so I guess they like the location. I'd add another in the bedrrom but I'm afraid I'd spend more time in it than the cats. I just don't have anywhere to put it that isn't where we need to walk. If she pees on the bathroom mat again, I'll just take it up and just use a towel for when we get out of the shower. Now if I get the smell out of the bedroom carpet is there something that will discourage her from starting over again? Feliway spray maybe? W The trouble is, if she gets used to peeing on rugs, she is going to pee on *all* rugs. My husband lets Boo sharpen claws on his office carpet but yells at her when she does it on the living room carpet. At which point I tell him he is a bonehead. :) Boo cannot distinguish between them! She has a little cat brain! Wouldn't it be somewhat confusing then to have carpeting on the scratching posts? W > The trouble is, if she gets used to peeing on rugs, she is going to > pee on *all* rugs. My husband lets Boo sharpen claws on his office [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Wouldn't it be somewhat confusing then to have carpeting on the scratching > posts? Might be, though I'd love to see a girl cat try to pee on something horizontal! Or maybe I wouldn't. My cats don't like the carpet posts, I use sisal and they happily and loudly shred it to bits. circa Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:47:04 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, > I guess part of the reason it is easy for me to forgo the carpet in > most rooms of the house is that i have dust and mold allergies, and > hardwoods are such a relief. Same here. My allergies are far less violently intrusive when I live in a home without carpeting. Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > circa Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:47:04 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Same here. My allergies are far less violently intrusive when I live > in a home without carpeting. It is also just so much easier to feel like the place is *clean* too. I like slick stained and sealed hardwoods, stone, and tile all over with a few non-skid runners and a decent short-nap area rug in the formal areas. If I want cuddly-wuddly that is what the giant bed, the nine pillows, the two down comforters and the CATS are for. (I am also allergic to my cats but am not INSANE so of course I still have them. When I found out I was allergic, I had one. Now I have two.) :) circa Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:47:04 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, > > > I guess part of the reason it is easy for me to forgo the carpet > in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > few > non-skid runners and a decent short-nap area rug in the formal areas. Absolutely. You just can't get that clean and shiny look with carpeting. <G> > If I want cuddly-wuddly that is what the giant bed, the nine pillows, > the two down comforters and the CATS are for. (I am also > allergic to my cats but am not INSANE so of course I still have them. > When I found out I was allergic, I had one. Now I have two.) :) I'll suffer the allergies (as I am at this moment, in fact) for the cats. No question, no choice. :-) Drugs are wonderful things. Now if mine would just kick in... Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. >the two down comforters and the CATS are for. (I am also >allergic to my cats but am not INSANE so of course I still have them. >When I found out I was allergic, I had one. Now I have two.) :) I am allergic to dogs. I was diagnosed when I was 5 years old. I had my own dog, and she slept on the bed. There have always been dogs in the house. Me personally I had a dog from age 4 to age 9, then waited a year before inherited my paternal grandmother's new dog (she last 3 days at her house, then came to love with us instead). She was a sheltie who slept under the covers with her head on the pillow next to me, and my arms wrapped around her. I had her for 13 years, then got my next dog 8 months later. I still have that one. She also sleeps in the bed. I consider it standard operating procedure to blow my nose when I get up every morning. And my throat is a bit gunky. My voice takes a good hour to wake up. But I don't mind. Sure beats not having a dog. My mom is allergic to both cats and dogs. We currently have 2 dogs and 3 cats. We have had as many as 3 dogs and 7 cats at once. She actually gets shots once a month to make this possible for her. Allergies do not stop us from loving our animals. But I did learn not to brush my dog on the bed without using a towel to catch the stray hair. I forgot once, and I was sick for 3 days. I forgot I was allergic since I just deal with it every day. Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > But I did learn not to brush my dog on the bed without using a towel > to catch the stray hair. I forgot once, and I was sick for 3 days. I > forgot I was allergic since I just deal with it every day. Sounds like your allergies are much more severe than mine. I sneeze my head off on a regular basis and take Claritin every day, but never get really sick from them. The worst things are dust and mold, so cutting out a lot of carpeting and things like layered cloth shower curtains helped. But when the heat comes on I sneeze until I'm dizzy. Got to look into duct cleaning for next year. >> But I did learn not to brush my dog on the bed without using a towel >> to catch the stray hair. I forgot once, and I was sick for 3 days. I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >helped. But when the heat comes on I sneeze until I'm dizzy. Got to >look into duct cleaning for next year. It's usually not that bad. Usually just congestion. The time I got sick, I stupidly decided to brush my dog on my bed, in teh area that my torso would be when I sleep. I did not put any cover on the bed, so after brushing, there was loose hair stuck to the bed (you can't get it all). So, I left it close to where I would be breathing all night, when I am at my lowest. I woke up the next day sick, but I thought it was a cold and didn't realize it was allergies. So, I stayed in bed - with the dog hair! It took me 3 days to figure out it was the dog hair, and I pulled my comforter off my bed. Now, I alwasy put a towel down first, so I can remove all the hair with the towel. I also wash my hands after a good brushing. And I make a point of washing my comforter more often, especially during shedding season. Overall though, my worst allergies are dust, pollen, mold, flowers, basically anything in the air. And what is my favorite outdoor activity? Horseback riding! What do they eat? HAY! And I can't wait to get my own horse. And what do I do for my small business? I photograph horses! Allergies ain't stopping me. But I do carry kleenex at all times :) I did find something that really helps reduce my allergies. It is a product called Nasal Guard (I am not affiliated with them). It is an ointment you apply to your nose 2-3 times a day. It dries clear, so you can't see it or feel it. Supposedly, it creates an ion field to prevent allergens from going in your nose, thus preventing a reaction. It's supposed to work like those air filters. Rationally, this makes absolutely no sense and sounds like a load of crap, but they sent me a trial sample, and it does work. My sister's allergies are not as bad as mine, but she was blowing away, and I was doing great. It really helps me at horse shows. I don't blow my nose nearly as much, and if I don't get congested, then I don't get a sinus headache. Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com circa 23 Feb 2004 10:00:33 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Meghan Noecker (friesian@zoocrewphoto.com) said, > I consider it standard operating procedure to blow my nose > when I get up every morning. For about twenty minutes. > And my throat is a bit gunky. If only I could learn to hawk a lugie. > My voice > takes a good hour to wake up. Call me Lauren Bacall. > But I don't mind. Sure beats not having > a dog. Same here. Well, except that you would need to substitute "cat" for "dog", since I don't have a dog. :-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. >> My voice >> takes a good hour to wake up. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> But I don't mind. Sure beats not having >> a dog. I could easily call in sick if I wanted to - just call right after I get up. I have never actually done it, but I have called to ask my schedule or something, and they thought I was sick. Once I called because of severe back pain, and they were already accepting a claim of being sick before I could tell them what was wrong with me. But I am so used to it that I can go months without thinking specifically that I am allergic to dogs. I figure if it is in the air, I am allergic to it. I'm also allergic to most soaps and lotions as well as most metals. Can't change it. So, I just go along with it. Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com >The trouble is, if she gets used to peeing on rugs, she is going to >pee on *all* rugs. My husband lets Boo sharpen claws on his office >carpet but yells at her when she does it on the living room carpet. At >which point I tell him he is a bonehead. :) Boo cannot distinguish >between them! She has a little cat brain! Isn't that the truth! My dad gets mad if a cat jumps up on a card table. I asked him how the cat is supposed to know it is wrong. We feed them on the bathroom counter and the counter in my room. They are allowed on my computer desk, regular desk, and any of my tables. The *only* tables they are not allowed on are the dining room tavble, and the kitchen counters and table. Basically, it is by room, not type of counter or table. Living room furniture is okay, so why wouldn't a card table in the living room be okay? Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >The trouble is, if she gets used to peeing on rugs, she is going to > >pee on *all* rugs. My husband lets Boo sharpen claws on his office [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > counter or table. Living room furniture is okay, so why wouldn't a > card table in the living room be okay? People are so funny about thinking cats can thing like people. (Hell, people can't think like cats either.) Whenever we have found our girls up on anything like a table or counter we fuss at them and tell them "no." They are fed on the floor, and rarely get up on tables and counters. Strangely, they do know that it is okay to get up on the couches and chairs, and Cheeks understands that the window seat is all hers, perhaps because I placed her on it when I installed it. Maybe they can actually figure out "hmm, if the human sits on it then *I* can without getting yelled at!" LOL! >ISN'T comfortable. I've had to ban her from "her" room (my bedroom) because >of her peeing in there. If she is peeing on the bed, then try a vinyl table cloth, soft side up. You can cover your bed and still let your kitty on top. I used to use one when I went out of town. Kira would get sick while I was gone. She is much better now. >arthritis. I mean who dies of arthritis? Although now that I think about it >I've known a couple of people who had it so bad dying looked good. > >So how do you know when enough is enough? I go by their quality of life. Is the animal able to enjoy life? Are they happy most of the time? Probably not time yet. Are they depressed? Are they unable to do be themselves? Maybe it is time. With my dog, she went blind at age 9. Still happy and healthy. She developed arthritis around age 11, but still able to go on walks and run a bit. Still a happy dog. She lost part of her hearinng at age 13, but still able to hear and respond to commands. I could guide her around obstacles with no problem. So, not time yet. Then she had a stroke. Could she have recovered from the stoke? Maybe. But in the meantime, she couldn't see, could barely hear, and she could not walk. What kind of life is that. I knew it was time. The day before she was a happy, mostly healthy dog. That day, she didn't have a future worth looking forward to. Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > Then she had a stroke. Could she have recovered from the stoke? Maybe. > But in the meantime, she couldn't see, could barely hear, and she > could not walk. What kind of life is that. I knew it was time. The day > before she was a happy, mostly healthy dog. That day, she didn't have > a future worth looking forward to. Such a hard decision, Meghan. It sounds like you took great care of her. > Meghan & the Zoo Crew > Equine and Pet Photography > http://www.zoocrewphoto.com >Such a hard decision, Meghan. It sounds like you took great care of >her. Thanks. It was a really bad day. She had the first stroke, or the bigging, the night before. I was studying for my last final exam of spring quarter. My parents were out of town, so I was home alone. I realized she was walking in circles, and something was wrong. I spent a lot of time sitting with her and not studying. The next day, she didn't seem worse, but not any better. I had to go to my exam. I don't drive, so I took the bus. I knew that unless she was better, I would have to put her down. And my parents would be arriving home in the afternoon. So, when I got home, I just sat with her and cried. By the time my parents got home, she was unable to walk, and could barely lift her head. She panicked if I let go, so I had to have my hand on her as my dad carried her to the car. She weighed about 35-40 pounds. He put her on my lap in the car, and the vet came out to the car to do it. It was the second time for me to make the decision. My cat had to be put down 11 months earlier, also on a test day. She too, had a stroke. That was 10 and 11 years ago. My oldest now will be 18 in June. He seems to be doing well, so I am hopeful that I will have a few more years before I have this decision to make again. I would like to add that I learned a very valuable lesson about 3 years ago. You see, I had always doubted my decisions. I knew rationally that I had done the right thing, and waiting longer would have been wrong, but I also played the what-if game. What if we had treated the stroke, would they have gotten better? Was it just a really bad day? Could I have changed something and prolonged their lives? Then, 3 years ago, my mom found a cat who had been hit by a car. A real sweet stray. I was in love with him before I even saw him. Just the description of his behavior (headbutting her when he had a head injury). I wanted him. He made it through his surgeries and got to come home. I spent hours brushing the dried blood out of his fur, and just spending time with him. He looked gory with his jaw wired open (icky solidified drool hanging out), eye sewn shut, scabs on his chin, etc. And he stunk. But he was so sweet. Within 2 days, he was screaming to come out of isolation, so I took him to my bed, where he decided this was the place for him. He was getting better, and things were great. Then he got sick. He went to the vet twice, and got some shots and additional special foods. The vet seemed satisfied. I was worried since he was already very much underweight, but I thought we had passed the worst. I came home from work one night, and I knew he wasn't going to make it. At that time, I did not know of a 24 hour vet. I don't know if it started up later or actually existed then, but I don't know of one. So, we planned to be there at the vet, before it opened. But in my heart, I knew he wouldn't make it. I sat there with him until 3:06am when he died. He was vomiting and convulsing for several minutes. It was the most horrible thing I have ever witnessed. I was so angry that any animal would have to go through this torture. If he was going to die, then why not let him die quickly in peace? Was he aware of me holding him? If so, he was aware of the pain. Was he free from the pain? Then he died without knowing I was there for him. I was horrified. And I still cry like crazy when I think of him, especially of how he died. But I did learn that I should never doubt my decision to put an animal down. Fiona and Sue-Jay both died in peace in my arms, as close to ideal as possible. My decision meant they they would never suffer like Jasper did. I do not blame myself for how Jasper died. I know that he was underweight, could have had a problem the vet didn't find. And we did the best we could for him. He had 3 weeks of love that he didn't have before. So, I do not regret trying to save him rather than putting him down when my mom found him. But I also accept the lesson that I learned. We have the opportunity to prevent suffering. And since we love our animals very much, we will usually err on the side of waiting too long (trying to postpone the loss). So, when we feel that is it time, we are most likely right in the decision, and we truly are doing the best thing for them. I do know that it is harder for some. I was 22 when I had to do it the first time. It was hard, but I did it. My sister was fortunate and unfortunate at the same time with her first loss. She wasn't home when my mom made the decision (it was overdue, the cat was suffering), so she didn't have the weight of the responsibility. But she also didn't get to be there, so she will always live with that. She was there for her second cat, and I know it was very hard for her, but I think she felt better about his loss, because he wasn't alone. Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com >She panicked if I let go, so I had to have my > hand on her as my dad carried her to the car. She weighed about 35-40 > pounds. He put her on my lap in the car, and the vet came out to the > car to do it. Every time I read about someone having to make this decision I get choked up. So hard. > That was 10 and 11 years ago. My oldest now will be 18 in June. He > seems to be doing well, so I am hopeful that I will have a few more [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the description of his behavior (headbutting her when he had a head > injury). Ah!! That's dedication! [snips very sad story] > I do not blame myself for how Jasper died. I know that he was > underweight, could have had a problem the vet didn't find. And we did [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > time, we are most likely right in the decision, and we truly are doing > the best thing for them. Excellent post, Meghan, and probably very hard to write. You gave Jasper a chance, and as loving as he sounds, he enjoyed the extra time. Some kooks like me think that love is like energy, once created it never dies. Think of yourself as a cottage industry of sorts. circa Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:59:43 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, > Some > kooks > like me think that love is like energy, once created it never dies. What a beautiful way of thinking. Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > circa Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:59:43 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > What a beautiful way of thinking. Some people rely upon religion, I rely upon my twisted little mind to help me deal with stuff like mortality and relationships gone awry. Whatever works, right? :-) I do hope I am right about love, though. That means it is never wasted. > Laura circa Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:50:28 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, > > > Some > > > kooks [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Whatever works, right? :-) I do hope I am right about love, though. > That means it is never wasted. I like to think you're right about that; it makes for a more balanced universe. :-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. >That means it is never wasted. It couldn't be. It may seem that way sometimes, but if we don't give love, then we probably lose our ability to do so. I think it is like an energy. If you get yourself down, it is really hard to get up again. But if you keep at it, it is much easier. Like momentum. So, the more we love, the more we can do so. And I am always glad to have my crew to come home to. It is really hard to be depressed with a purring cat in my lap. Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >That means it is never wasted. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > And I am always glad to have my crew to come home to. It is really > hard to be depressed with a purring cat in my lap. I was looking at Cheeky the other day while she was sleeping, and thinking, how can anyone who does not have cats have this kind of beautiful, simple contentment in their house? I don't have to pet her to lower my blood pressure, I just have to watch her sleep or watch the birds. I constantly think "how the hell can something this common be this beautiful? Ha! I know a woman who would never have cats because she doesn't ""want the mess." She is bitter and negative about everything, icky and petty-minded, resentful of any little good thing that comes to others and not to her. I think a cat might help her! circa Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:48:38 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, > I was looking at Cheeky the other day while she was sleeping, and > thinking, how can anyone who does not have cats have this kind of > beautiful, simple contentment in their house? I don't have to pet her > to lower my blood pressure, I just have to watch her sleep or watch > the birds. I constantly think "how the hell can something this common > be this beautiful? I never cease to be awestruck by how beautiful cats are. Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > circa Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:48:38 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > I never cease to be awestruck by how beautiful cats are. Is it any wonder that I have decided I just cannot relate to people who do not like cats? Eccentric? Maybe. Right on? For me. Life is short. ;) >circa Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:59:43 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, >Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >What a beautiful way of thinking. Yes. And I think it is true. I only had 2 1/2 weeks with Jasper, but I still love him. He realyy reached into my heart and captured me. I have a special box for him. It is a treasure chest as Jasper means hidden treasure. He was a treasure, hidden under the gross injuries. My sister painted it black with white pawprints, and when you open the lid, you see gold eyes and white whiskers. It is really cute. Inside, I have my momentos. His vet bill, some posts I wrote about him, the last can of his baby food, a couple pathetic pictures of him. I couldn't use flash as he was barely able to see out of hsi good eye, and i didn't want to disturb him. That and he looked horrible. They were supposed to be the "before" pictures in the before and after series. I also have a couple greeting cards. My mom and sister gave me cards after he died, and I have received some birthday and christmas gifts "from Jasper". I also have a card from the vet where some money was donated in his name. And to finish it off, I have several items of Jasper. There are several types of jasper rock, basically it is an opaque quartz. So, I have some small slabs of raw jasper, some rocks that have been polished, etc. Some of them are on cards, some loose. I also found some Jasper "tears" on ebay, so I thought they were appropriate. My family knows that I collect Jasper, so I get some in my Christmas stocking or something. Last Christmas, I got a little nightlight with a black cat and white whiskers. Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com circa 22 Feb 2004 09:53:48 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Meghan Noecker (friesian@zoocrewphoto.com) said, > But I did learn that I should never doubt my decision to put an animal > down. Fiona and Sue-Jay both died in peace in my arms, as close to > ideal as possible. My decision meant they they would never suffer like > Jasper did. Amen. I think there is a point when the light goes out of an animal's eyes but they're still alive, and that point is when it's time to help them to go peacefully. I'd rather err on the side of caution and have the animal put to sleep when s/he might have had a day or two left in him/her than to question whether or not it's "really" time and make the animal suffer as a result. I remember a couple of years ago, somebody posted a link here to a site where a woman was talking about her last days with her cancer-ridden cat. It was *painfully* clear that this woman held on too long and tortured her cat during its last days because of her own inability to let him go. When I read that, I vowed that I would *never* put one of my cats through it. When Alex first got sick (intestinal lymphosarcoma), it was very, very clear that he wasn't ready to die yet. He didn't feel well, but he also had a ton of fight in him. That, combined with the prognosis given by his oncologist, helped me to decide to go ahead with chemo. It was the right decision, and I had almost two more wonderful years with him in my life. However, when he got sick again in August, it was crystal clear that this time, he was ready to go. And I let him. He didn't suffer, and my conscience is clear knowing that I allowed him to let go instead of making him suffer because I couldn't bear to lose him. I hope that I'm able to rationally make that decision for all of my animals. Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > circa 22 Feb 2004 09:53:48 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Meghan > Noecker (friesian@zoocrewphoto.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > eyes but they're still alive, and that point is when it's time to > help them to go peacefully. This is precisely it. You really do have a way with words. The light went out of Gnarly's eyes and she just looked at me hollowly as I fed her baby food and water with a turkey baster. She was too, too thin, wrapped in a towel, and I held her in my arms like a baby, something she never let me do when she was healthy. Her look finally reached me--she was asking me to let her go and to let her let go. I had the vet come the next day. circa Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:48:30 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, > > > But I did learn that I should never doubt my decision to put an > animal [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > me--she was asking me to let her go and to let her let go. I had the > vet come the next day. Bless you for knowing when to let go. It's such a difficult thing to do, but I really do think that they try to let us know when they want us to help them to leave us in body. I don't think they ever leave us in spirit. Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > Bless you for knowing when to let go. It's such a difficult thing to > do, but I really do think that they try to let us know when they want > us to help them to leave us in body. I don't think they ever leave us > in spirit. I hope not. I don't know where she would go. Nobody liked her but me and I didn't like her sometimes! ;) I probably have friends who would say the same about me, LOL! However--she had the softest fur I could ever imagine on anything at all. And this cool little mole on her lower lip. And when she cried nothing came out except sometimes a kind of "k-k-k-k-k-k." But when she growled, it was that wicked, high-pitched kind. Gnarly Jean meant business. Once she just sauntered up to me and my sister as we sat at my kitchen table, calm as you can imagine, slowly got up on her back lets like a mongoose and BIT my sister on the back of her arm! Why? Honest to god I could tell she thought it was funny. My sister is this namby pamby New Age type, heh heh. But I held that cat in my arms as I tried to sleep at night when my father died, and when my mother died too, and she let me, though she never had before and never did again. I remember telling the vet and tech that the afternoon they put her down, as an explanation why a tough-a.s stoic like me was such a mess. Cats get tuned to your emotions, especially when you live alone a lot of the time. They just beat the hell out of humans at time. Especially THAT cat!! circa Mon, 23 Feb 2004 02:58:16 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, > But I held that cat in my arms as I tried to sleep at night when my > father died, and when my mother died too, and she let me, though she [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > emotions, especially when you live alone a lot of the time. They just > beat the hell out of humans at time. Especially THAT cat!! Alex was a complete bastard. Absolutely gorgeous, one of the smartest damned cats I ever knew, and hell on wheels. He had a wild streak as wide as the Mississippi, and he had to have a daily roughhousing session or he'd get vicious. He even landed me in the hospital when he bit through my finger all the way to the tendon. I was lucky to keep use of my hand. But one night a couple of months before he got sick, I woke up on my left side, with my left arm stretched out. Alex was snuggled butt- first into my armpit with his back stretched against my left arm and his head in my hand, and I'd been rubbing his belly and chest with my right hand while I was sleeping. He had *never* been a cuddly cat, but he slept like that with me from that night until the day he died. I don't know what it was that triggered him to do it, but he became an astoundingly affectionate boy from that moment on. He loved riding in the car to and from his chemo (which was almost two hours away), but he'd be an utter hellion once we got there. After he'd terrorized everybody and everything in the oncologist's office, we'd make the trek back home and after a gratuitous hiss or two at me, he'd be right back to his happy, car-riding self. My regular veterinarians did as much of his chemo locally as possible, and every visit there was an adventure for everybody. He was their evil mascot, and they all got a kick out of what a sumbitch he was. I've never had a cat quite like Alex before, and I'll never have one quite like him again, but he sure was a wonderful bastard. Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > circa Mon, 23 Feb 2004 02:58:16 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > Alex was a complete bastard. Absolutely gorgeous, one of the smartest [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > I've never had a cat quite like Alex before, and I'll never have one > quite like him again, but he sure was a wonderful bastard. I couldn't snip a bit of that. I would have adored Alex! What are a few scars and some psychological trauma in the face of all that STYLE and chutzpah! Lap cats are for pussies. ;) circa Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:42:06 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, > I would have adored Alex! What are a > few scars and some psychological trauma in the face of all that STYLE > and chutzpah! Lap cats are for pussies. ;) Damn straight. The scars are just mementos so I always have something to remember him by. :-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. >circa 22 Feb 2004 09:53:48 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Meghan >Noecker (friesian@zoocrewphoto.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >its last days because of her own inability to let him go. When I read >that, I vowed that I would *never* put one of my cats through it. When Fiona got to that point, there was a change. I don't know how to describe it. The day before, she seemd fine, though frail (she was 19). But I woke up in the middle of the night with the sudden need to find her. She was at the top of the stairs, and she just seemed different. I knew right then that this was her last day, but I don't know why. I held her the rest of the night, and took her to the vet that afternoon. (I had an exam that day, so I was gone in the morning). My sister has had a much harder time making the decisions, and I think she waited too long with her cat. I hate to say anything though. I know she loved him very much, but she was in some major denial with him. I noticed in the summer that he seemed much thinner as well as grumpy. I suggested working on extra feeding as well as arthtis medication. She did finally add some glucosamine, which helped some, but he continued to lose weight, and he was very cranky. His quality of life was not very good. When he was finally put down, the vet said his intestines had hardened, and he couldn't get food through his system. Would have lived longer if she had intervened sooner? I have no idea. And I would never say that to her since I am sure she feels guilty enough. But she could have prolonged his health if she caught it in time *or* she could have shortened his suffering. Whichever was right for him. She waited until he was too thin to suddenly start feeding him treats. This is another reason, I work so hard to keep Maynard at the heavier end of his range. He feels really good right now. He weighs in at 8lbs which is on the low end, but his weist isn't waspy looking, and he likes his new vitamins. I've even seen him scratching the cardboard scratchy toy, and I have never seen him go after that one before. Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > Our Maine Coon boy died very suddenly in January just under 5 years > old the cause was found to be cardiomyopathy We where not aware of any [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Norwegians and Siberians is anybody aware of any problems with these > breeds ? Just wondering... Why not adopt a mixed breed kitty from a rescue group or shelter? There are so many who need homes. All cats can have problems. Certain breeds might be prone to them, but any kitty you get could end up with a genetic problem. My Mom has a cat that kinda looks like a small MC that she adopted. He's the sweetest guy. Maybe adopting a cat tha |
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