 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneral TopicsCat AnecdotesHealth and BehaviorRescue CatKB.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2004-Gene pool?
If the only cats allowed to breed are the strays and those belonging to 'irresponsible' cat owners what happens to the gene pool in time? We are told that prey animals are made stronger as a whole because their enemies eleminate the weak and old. Would that theory not work in reverse for cats? I realize that this is not the question of the century. I'm interested in your thoughts on this. very time I see an absolutly gorgeous cat that id love tohave a kitten from m told it's been 'fixed' (I have 5 well-cared for strays). > If the only cats allowed to breed are the strays and those belonging to > 'irresponsible' cat owners what happens to the gene pool in time? We [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > absolutly gorgeous cat that id love tohave a kitten from m told it's > been 'fixed' (I have 5 well-cared for strays). <opinion type="US"> The question, as I read it to be, is what happens if there are no purebreds, no show cats, no one at all purposefully breeding cats...the only cats breeding are those who are wild or are owned by irresponsible people. The term "irresponsible" is assumed to mean the cat got preggers by accident. This then assumes the cat can survive outside, since the cat must go out to mate without supervision to get pregnant by accident. If ONLY those cats bred, you'd have very sound animals. See the feral cat colonies in other countries where they have lived for generations with no human intervention at all. Only the "fittest" animals survive on their own for any length of time. This means that cats adapted to a feral life live and "soft" animals die - and those cats are NOT the same as the ones that make the best pets (for the majority of the population). We domesticated the cat and began breeding in characteristics not found in nature. Our softest cats (e.g. Persian, etc) would probably have a hell of a time actually hunting and surviving in the wild. Yet they remain some of the most popular of the purebreds. So, you'd have genetically superior animals that few people wanted for pets. IMO, in a perfect world, there would be no unwanted cats. Any cat that possessed all desirable traits would be bred. None with any genetic problems would be bred. None with any serious personality issues would be bred, etc. Breed would be irrelevant, except to fanciers. It is my opinion that moggies are just as good as purebreds and can possess wonderful personalities - and personality is almost as important as genetic (and overall) health. Appearance, IMO, is the least of one's worries. The Darwinian version of the world, in relation to pets, is of little concern in a modern society. You want healthy, genetically sound, personable animals, but being able to survive in the wild is something few humans can do, let alone our beloved and coddled pets. To survive, one must harden. Thus making the animal less suitable to being a pet. The current serious overpopulation problem means that there is no reason to breed more cats - only those who are ignorant of the problem, apathetic to it, or honestly think that the quality of their cat justifies the death of another cat (in a shelter), breed. </opinion> The preceeding was my opinion based on my understanding of the world in which I live. YMMV.  Signature-- ~kaeli~ Dancing cheek-to-cheek is really a form of floor play. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > We domesticated the cat and began breeding in > characteristics not found in nature. Our softest cats (e.g. Persian, > etc) would probably have a hell of a time actually hunting and surviving > in the wild. Yet they remain some of the most popular of the purebreds. > So, you'd have genetically superior animals that few people wanted for > pets. I had a Persian for some time and I honestly see no difference in his behavior from the other cats I have (all adopted strays/ferals). All my cats were always extremely docile, with only two exceptions: two females that had been hurt by people. The huge difference is in health. This Persian had all sorts of health problems while the others are very healthy. Maybe some people appreciate Persians for their fur or the "status" of having a purebred cat because as far as "behavior" goes, I really see no difference. The precious long haired kitty(Bear) that just died also had a series of serious health problems and he was born to a small short haired tailless stray. Do long haired cats in general have more health problems? I don't think it's related to fur length, but to genetics. I am not a geneticist and I saw what I am going to write now on TV once, so it might not be too precise as I count solely on what I remember. When a disease hits a community, some individuals die and some survive. The ones that survive pass this resistance down to their offspring. From what I remember on immunology, an individual does not "create" an antibody against a disease. The body gets all antibodies available in its genetic library and tests each one against the pathogen to see which one works. Once the body finds one that works, it starts producing that antibody in large numbers to destroy or neutralize the pathogen. When animals mate, both the male and the female give their share of this genetic library. If the two animals are closely related, many of these "genes" will be the same, so the offspring isn't gaining, it's losing. And every time an animal is inbred, it looses more and more of these genes, becoming more vulnerable even to the silliest diseases. With a "poorer library", the individual will not have as many antibodies to experiment against a pathogen, hence the vulnerability. Strays may end up inbreeding too. If a tom owns an area long enough, he might end up mating with his own daughters. Nature compensates for this by either getting rid of the bad fetuses (reabsorbing the fetus) or the kittens will be born, but will be more vulnerable to diseases and physically weaker (inbreeding usually results in loss of body size). >Strays may end up inbreeding too. If a tom owns an area long enough, >he might end up mating with his own daughters. Actually ferals probably inbreed far more than do purebred cats, since a knowledgeable breeder will avoid inbreeding. Even among owned indoor/outdoor cats, I have to say that in our neighborhood since hardly anyone spays/neuters, most of the cats are closely related to each other. They may be more vulnerable to diseases but they live long enough to reproduce a number of times. > >Strays may end up inbreeding too. If a tom owns an area long enough, > >he might end up mating with his own daughters. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > most of the cats are closely related to each other. They may be more vulnerable > to diseases but they live long enough to reproduce a number of times. Our urban ferals do, because they live in colonies, but if you look at real wild cats (bobcats, servals, even lions), there is almost never any inbreeding. Nature doesn't like inbreeding and wild species tend to have evolved things that prevent it. Lions, who live in groups, kick out the adult males. AFAIK, no other cat lives in groups. Other cats have other ways about them (migration, territory, etc) that tend to discourage inbreeding. In my other post, I mentioned a special I saw on TV that showed real wild cats, who lived in another country, far from any urban areas. Their ancestors were domestic cats, but they had gone totally wild. Those cats did NOT live in groups. It makes me wonder if our ferals live in groups because the food tends to be in the same area, or for some other reason. The cats in the special HAD to hunt. They ranged for food. So, they had no social groups. Signature-- ~kaeli~ Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace >Our urban ferals do, because they live in colonies, but if you look at >real wild cats (bobcats, servals, even lions), there is almost never any >inbreeding. True, but these are not the same species as the domestic cat. I think the question was about what would happen if domestic cats only bred by accident. True wild cats also are not nearly as reproductively prolific as domestic cats. Nature doesn't like inbreeding and wild species tend to have >evolved things that prevent it. Lions, who live in groups, kick out the >adult males. AFAIK, no other cat lives in groups. Other cats have other [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >special HAD to hunt. They ranged for food. So, they had no social >groups. Yes, that's what I basically said when responding to your other post. Availability of food determines cats' territories. If the OP's question is what would happen if there were no purposely-bred domestic cats, however, I'm not sure what happens among feral cat populations living in wilderness areas can be used as a model. > >Our urban ferals do, because they live in colonies, but if you look at > >real wild cats (bobcats, servals, even lions), there is almost never any [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > question was about what would happen if domestic cats only bred by accident. > True wild cats also are not nearly as reproductively prolific as domestic cats. So true. Although I wonder why... Food supply? > If the OP's question is what would happen if there were no purposely-bred > domestic cats, however, I'm not sure what happens among feral cat populations > living in wilderness areas can be used as a model. I don't know, either. I just thought it was interesting. Signature-- ~kaeli~ Contrary to popular opinion, the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'fact'. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace >> If the OP's question is what would happen if there were no purposely-bred >> domestic cats, however, I'm not sure what happens among feral cat [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I don't know, either. >I just thought it was interesting. Well, in thinking about it, if the only cats that bred were feral ones, those in areas where they had to hunt to survive would eventually become similar to their ancestors. Brown tabby would become the usual color; many colors and patterns would disappear. A white cat, for example, would be at a disadvantage unless living in an area with a great deal of snow cover. Urban ferals would not necessarily become tabbies, because for cats living mainly on garbage the coat color would be less important. Of course, once cats are living in proximity to people, there is always going to be selective breeding. The cute cat or the friendlier cat or the cat with the distinctive markings is more likely to get a handout and thus survive longer. If the question is what if there were no more purebred cats, well, actually things wouldn't change all that much because purebred cats comprise between three and five percent of the domestic cat population. In addition, the majority of purebred cats are not bred. What would happen is that certain breed specific traits would be diluted and then disappear. So in that sense, there would be less physical diversity. Mostly speculation, of course. <snip stuff I agree with> > Mostly speculation, of course. I agree with everything you said. It depends on whether the cats in question are living near humans or not. Signature-- ~kaeli~ When you choke a smurf, what color does it turn? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > >Strays may end up inbreeding too. If a tom owns an area long enough, > >he might end up mating with his own daughters. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > They may be more vulnerable to diseases but they live long enough > to reproduce a number of times. Cats differ from dogs in mating habits. While only the alpha dog male mates, all cats within a territory mate. As long as the "males" are friends, they do not fight over the females. They take turns. This is also seen among wild felids. So if you live in a neighborhood with many toms sharing a small territory, it´s impossible to know who the father of any given litter is, as the female probably mated with most of them. So the chances that her kittens are from her father are somewhat small. What do breeders breed for? Breed standard. The animals that comes closest to breed standard breed most often. If I were a breeder, I would do two things: first, only breed the biggest animals. Second, only use males that have a clean bill of health for 10 years, so my males would only start breeding at 10. And third, I´d try to bring mates from overseas (or from as far as possible). I don´t think many breeders consider health more important than breed standard. I know breeders who are very responsible and they keep a record of all the offspring of their animals to sort out the animals that produced offspring with health problems. But by the time those problems show up, how many offspring has that individual produced? And how many offspring has his offspring produced? I am really not fond of breeding practices at all. >Cats differ from dogs in mating habits. While only the alpha dog male >mates, all cats within a territory mate. As long as the "males" are [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >of them. So the chances that her kittens are from her father are >somewhat small. Well, in our neighborhood I've seen the two toms that I know to be the offspring of a particular cat mating with her, so I know for sure there is some amount of inbreeding going on. Since most of the cats on the block are her offspring, and they all mate with each other, it's a small breeding pool. Her litters no doubt do have several fathers, but those fathers are her sons. > Well, in our neighborhood I've seen the two toms that I know to be the > offspring of a particular cat mating with her, so I know for sure there is > some amount of inbreeding going on. Since most of the cats on the block > are her offspring, and they all mate with each other, it's a small breeding > pool. Her litters no doubt do have several fathers, but those fathers are > her sons. And what happens to all those kittens? Haven´t anyone tried to trap and spay at least the females? >And what happens to all those kittens? Haven´t anyone tried to trap >and spay at least the females? Oh, we've threatened to do that. These are not exactly strays; they belong to various neighbors, or so the neighbors say. They get really huffy when we say we would like to take their cats into a clinic to be neutered, however. They don't believe in it. The kittens that manage to survive are given to other neighbors, to repeat the cycle. Most of the people here are recent immigrants from Eastern Europe and that's part of their way of viewing housecats, I assume. When we come across a cat or kitten that appears to be a real stray, that no one claims, we do try to find a home for it. But I'm not sure what the legal ramifications might be if we were take someone's cat against their will and have her spayed, you know? Even if it were legal, it would create ill will among the neighbors. > When we come across a cat or kitten that appears to be a real stray, that no > one claims, we do try to find a home for it. But I'm not sure what the legal > ramifications might be if we were take someone's cat against their will and > have her spayed, you know? Even if it were legal, it would create ill will > among the neighbors. Yep, gotcha. :( Here in Brazil, allowing a pet to breed continuously can be qualified as animal abuse and the pet can be taken away from the owner. But then you´d still have the "ill among the neighbors" which is not good either. >Yep, gotcha. :( Here in Brazil, allowing a pet to breed continuously >can be qualified as animal abuse and the pet can be taken away from >the owner. But then you´d still have the "ill among the neighbors" >which is not good either. I wish we had a law like that here! In our neighborhood people just don't seem to believe in spaying or neutering their dogs and cats. They do tend to keep dogs on leashes, but I think only because it's the law. Maybe if it were a law that they could be fined for animal abuse by not neutering/spaying, a lot more people would do it. Oops.. I would do three things, not two... > I had a Persian for some time and I honestly see no difference in his > behavior from the other cats I have (all adopted strays/ferals). All [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > or the "status" of having a purebred cat because as far as "behavior" > goes, I really see no difference. There's the health aspect, certainly, but I have a hard time seeing a Persian successfully hunting due to the (most popular, it seems to me) commonly seen snub faces. There's also the common breathing problems with the "new" version with those snub noses. The "old" version that actually has a muzzle might fare better, but displaying typical cat behavior such as stalking and watching birds does not a successful hunter make. My cats all do that stuff and I know not a one of them would survive long on their own. They never ever tried to hurt my pet rats. *heh* There is more to survival than hunting. The cat must be able to find shelter in bad climates, avoid predators, understand and live in a social group (most feral cats do this, not all), and avoid hurting themselves while going about their daily lives. Some cats are smart enough for this. Some are road pizza inside of a week (this would be the fate of my little Princess, who has no fear of cars). Plus, this is just from what I've seen in documentaries and such, but for some reason it seems that feral cats are all shorthaired. I wonder if this is because the long hair mats badly and interferes with movement (as I've seen on that animal rescue show) and thus the cat cannot hunt properly... Signature-- ~kaeli~ When a clock is hungry, it goes back four seconds. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace >Plus, this is just from what I've seen in documentaries and such, but >for some reason it seems that feral cats are all shorthaired. I wonder >if this is because the long hair mats badly and interferes with movement >(as I've seen on that animal rescue show) and thus the cat cannot hunt >properly... But how much hunting do urban ferals really do? I think I read a study somewhere that analyzed the contents of the stomachs of feral cats, and the majority of what they were living on was garbage, not rodents or birds. > >Plus, this is just from what I've seen in documentaries and such, but > >for some reason it seems that feral cats are all shorthaired. I wonder [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > somewhere that analyzed the contents of the stomachs of feral cats, and the > majority of what they were living on was garbage, not rodents or birds. Oh, I'm sure, but AFAIK, there are many, many more stray, feral, and "unattended" cats in non-urban areas than urban ones. This is just what I was thinking, since I know of so many farms with tons of "barn cats". Not to mention the fact that urban areas are few and far between if you consider the world as a whole and purebreds only make up like ~5% of the total world population of cats (best guess on several totals from the net). I was thinking basically what would happen if cats tried to go back to nature, so to speak, and didn't live where humans were. There was a documentary on Animal Planet about these cats that live in some other country (somewhere in Africa, I think) and they're totally wild. They live in the desert off of lizards and stuff and the local people, who are hunter/gatherer types, even hunt the cats and eat them. The cats in that area all descended from domesticated, "normal" cats and the special showed several that looked like any grey tabby you'd see in the shelter. The really interesting thing is that those cats, unlike our feral colonies, were solitary for the most part. They did not gather in groups. Could be because they had to range for food... Signature-- ~kaeli~ Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace >I was thinking basically what would happen if cats tried to go back to >nature, so to speak, and didn't live where humans were. There was a >documentary on Animal Planet about these cats that live in some other >country (somewhere in Africa, I think) and they're totally wild. I assume you mean feral, not wild. Wild cats would be a native species, not derived from the domestic cat itself. They >live in the desert off of lizards and stuff and the local people, who >are hunter/gatherer types, even hunt the cats and eat them. If it's the program I saw, that's Australia. >The cats in that area all descended from domesticated, "normal" cats and >the special showed several that looked like any grey tabby you'd see in >the shelter. >The really interesting thing is that those cats, unlike our feral >colonies, were solitary for the most part. They did not gather in >groups. Could be because they had to range for food... The ancestor of the domestic cat, the African wild cat, is a solitary species. Studies of the territorial ranges of domestic cats do show that the availability of food is the main determination of how many cats are willing to live in a given area. I don't know whether there are more feral cats in rural areas than in urban settings. It seems to me that the availability of food, and food that they don't have to hunt for either, would be greater in urban areas, thus allowing a greater concentration of ferals. Whether that is true in fact, I don't know. > >I was thinking basically what would happen if cats tried to go back to > >nature, so to speak, and didn't live where humans were. There was a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I assume you mean feral, not wild. Wild cats would be a native species, not > derived from the domestic cat itself. I don't know. Are feral cats who live side by side with humans the same as the ones who can't just go to the garbage for food? Their behavior is totally different in some ways, notably their social structure, or lack thereof. Should we still call them feral? Or is wild more appropriate? Just a theoretical question. > They > >live in the desert off of lizards and stuff and the local people, who > >are hunter/gatherer types, even hunt the cats and eat them. > > If it's the program I saw, that's Australia. That sounds like a definite maybe. :) I don't remember, honestly. > The ancestor of the domestic cat, the African wild cat, is a solitary species. I've heard that, which is what makes me think that feral colonies are not how cats would live if there were no people. (I know this is getting into a different area of thought than the OP's question about only accidental breedings, but my thoughts began from there and wandered over into what would happen if cats lived with no people.) Signature-- ~kaeli~ Contrary to popular opinion, the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'fact'. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace >> I assume you mean feral, not wild. Wild cats would be a native species, not >> derived from the domestic cat itself. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Should we still call them feral? Or is wild more appropriate? >Just a theoretical question. Well, in the U.S. by feral we usually mean the offspring of domestic cats that are living on their own, but not necessarily without human assistance. In Australia, there are feral cats that were introduced to the country a couple hundred years ago and are living in wilderness areas without any human contact. I think they don't call them wild cats, although they live quite differently than our urban feral cats, to make it clear they are still in all derived from the domestic cat and not a native species. >> They >> >live in the desert off of lizards and stuff and the local people, who [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >That sounds like a definite maybe. :) >I don't remember, honestly. I remember that the people who said they would hunt and eat them were Aborigines. >> The ancestor of the domestic cat, the African wild cat, is a solitary >species. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >there and wandered over into what would happen if cats lived with no >people.) Well, I just found a statistic that there are estimated to be 500,000 feral cats in Chicago. That's a lot of urban ferals! More than I imagined. > Well, in the U.S. by feral we usually mean the offspring of domestic cats that > are living on their own, but not necessarily without human assistance. In [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > than our urban feral cats, to make it clear they are still in all derived from > the domestic cat and not a native species. Yeah, and what would happen to them is highly dependent on where they live. As you said in your other post, which I totally agree with. Cats who live truly "wild" - nowhere near an urban area - will be really different from the urban ferals. > >> They > >> >live in the desert off of lizards and stuff and the local people, who > >> >are hunter/gatherer types, even hunt the cats and eat them. > >> > >> If it's the program I saw, that's Australia. That must be it. > Well, I just found a statistic that there are estimated to be 500,000 feral > cats in Chicago. That's a lot of urban ferals! More than I imagined. Holy s***. Wow, I didn't know there were that many, either. How sad. Where'd you see that? Geez, now I'm kinda depressed. I need to go look at some cute kitty pictures or something. Signature-- ~kaeli~ Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace >Holy s***. Wow, I didn't know there were that many, either. >How sad. >Where'd you see that? It was an estimate from a group of vets. They estimated 500,000 ferals and 700,000 owned cats. I don't know whether they meant within the city itself, or including suburbs. > >Holy s***. Wow, I didn't know there were that many, either. > >How sad. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 700,000 owned cats. I don't know whether they meant within the city itself, or > including suburbs. I was looking around and found this. http://www.feralcat.com/kelson.html "The number of feral cats in the U.S. has been estimated at 60 million." Wow. The author also claims that most die young. This would agree with my belief that most cats that are raised in homes are "soft" and, if left to their own devices, would die. "Many people think pets can regain their so-called "natural" instincts and hunt to survive if they are abandoned or lost. The truth is - they can't. Their lives are a grim struggle to survive in back alleys or in rural areas on whatever scraps of food they can beg or steal. Unless they are cared for by a feeder, most die young from disease, starvation, abuse, and accidents - or die violently as food for a predator." I don't know where the author's stats come from, but I'd pretty much agree with the sentiment. Signature-- ~kaeli~ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace >I was looking around and found this. >http://www.feralcat.com/kelson.html >"The number of feral cats in the U.S. has been estimated at 60 million." > >Wow. >The author also claims that most die young. Yes, but that would be one reason cats may be so prolific. Most kittens wouldn't naturally make it to adulthood. Of course, they don't really have to grow up to produce a litter--they can do it at five or six months of age. So even if by dying young the author means they don't make it to age one or two, they still can have reproduced several times. This would agree with my >belief that most cats that are raised in homes are "soft" and, if left >to their own devices, would die. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I don't know where the author's stats come from, but I'd pretty much >agree with the sentiment. All cats have the instinct to hunt, but unless they have actually been trained to do so by a skilled mother, they are often pretty poor at actually killing something. I doubt any of our three cats could survive on her own--we had a mouse living in our house for a good three months before they finally caught it, and it took help from me to find it. I've had a couple of cats who were good hunters. Tiggy used to get mice, voles, rabbits and squirrels in her younger days. She even came home with a snake once (ewwwww). We got her when she was maybe 6 weeks old so I don't know how much training her mom got to do. I wonder if they learn it if they are young and outside? My inside only guys wouldn't know what to do with a rodent to save their souls althought they do like to play with the toy ones. W kaeli tiny_one@NOSPAM.comcast.net wrote: >I was looking around and found this. >http://www.feralcat.com/kelson.html >"The number of feral cats in the U.S. has been estimated at 60 million." > >Wow. >The author also claims that most die young. Yes, but that would be one reason cats may be so prolific. Most kittens wouldn't naturally make it to adulthood. Of course, they don't really have to grow up to produce a litter--they can do it at five or six months of age. So even if by dying young the author means they don't make it to age one or two, they still can have reproduced several times. This would agree with my >belief that most cats that are raised in homes are "soft" and, if left >to their own devices, would die. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I don't know where the author's stats come from, but I'd pretty much >agree with the sentiment. All cats have the instinct to hunt, but unless they have actually been trained to do so by a skilled mother, they are often pretty poor at actually killing something. I doubt any of our three cats could survive on her own--we had a mouse living in our house for a good three months before they finally caught it, and it took help from me to find it. > My inside only guys wouldn't know what to do with a rodent to save their > souls althought they do like to play with the toy ones. All three of mine had to survive on their own at some point before coming to me. Shadow is a fierce hunter though slowing down these days. Same with Shamrock. His (Shamrock) kills are insects now, but I can picture him using all that stealth and energy in hunting rodents or birds. Bonnie, however, doesn't even like to eat meat (neither raw nor cooked) and won't eat canned cat food. She didn't seem to have a huntress instinct watching birds while inside unless she already knew they were out, and she was in (unlike my boys who seem to think they can dive through glass). She doesn't do the chirping sound at birds even if they are a few feet from the glass door she is looking out, while Shadow and Shamrock crouch and stalk. She is just starting to learn that behavior now. And she was the one who I believe was born in the wild yet only seemed to lived on food I put out. She *did* have a belly full of roundworm after I trapped her, but I understand they can be born with those, or get them from nursing. I have never seen signs of mice in my house even though there are clear signs there used to be mice at one time. I know they are outside because I've heard them when one of the strays was on the hunt, and I saw one as big as my thumb pad running across the front steps one night. SignatureCheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II Cheryl <jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message > She doesn't do the chirping sound at birds even if they are a few feet > from the glass door she is looking out, while Shadow and Shamrock crouch > and stalk. I always wondered why cats do that chirping sound when they are about to attack something. I would expect them to be as silent as possible to go unnoticed by their victim. I thought maybe it could be to warn other cats to remain silent so that the prey doesn´t get away, but cats hunt on their own. Maybe the mother does that for the kittens to stay quiet and put when she´s about to make a kill so all cats end up instinctively imitating the behavior. Does anyone actually know why they do that? >I always wondered why cats do that chirping sound when they are about >to attack something. I would expect them to be as silent as possible [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >instinctively imitating the behavior. Does anyone actually know why >they do that? I've read that what they are actually doing is practicing the killing bite they are abut to inflict on the vertebrae of the prey. That's why the jaw is so tensely moving while the sound is coming out. I'm not sure if this is true, or just a story. Sherry > I've read that what they are actually doing is practicing the killing bite > they are abut to inflict on the vertebrae of the prey. That's why the jaw > is so tensely moving while the sound is coming out. I'm not sure if this > is true, or just a story. > > Sherry That reminds me of that movement they do with their feet, swinging their behind from side to side when they are low, ready to attack. I read they do that to accumulate tension on the muscles for the spring. So what you read does make sense. They could be accumulating tention on the cheek muscles to inflict a powerful bite. > I always wondered why cats do that chirping sound when they are about > to attack something. I would expect them to be as silent as possible [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > instinctively imitating the behavior. Does anyone actually know why > they do that? I read that they do that when they can't get at the prey and are upset/excited. Has anyone seen/heard a cat actually do that when they're outside and can get to the prey? Signature-- ~kaeli~ Support your local medical examiner: die strangely! http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace >I read that they do that when they can't get at the prey and are >upset/excited. > >Has anyone seen/heard a cat actually do that when they're outside and >can get to the prey? I was just thinking the same thing; the only time our cats make that noise is when they see birds through the window. They don't do it when they go outside in our backyard. > > I always wondered why cats do that chirping sound when they are about > > to attack something. I would expect them to be as silent as possible [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Has anyone seen/heard a cat actually do that when they're outside and > can get to the prey? I was wondering the same thing; my cats do it, but they're inside, looking at a bird through a window. I've never noticed the cats in the neighborhood who are inside-outside cats doing it outside, near my birdfeeder. Doesn't mean they never do it, I've just never noticed them engaged in that behavior. Cathy -- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon > > I always wondered why cats do that chirping sound when they are about > > to attack something. I would expect them to be as silent as possible [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Has anyone seen/heard a cat actually do that when they're outside and > can get to the prey? I see my cats do that all the time, even if the prey is within a foot (a fly on the wall, for instance). I also noticed that when one cat does that, all other cats look in the direction the "hunter" is facing and they all stand still or approach with caution (crouching). That´s why I thought it was a communication of some sort. > I see my cats do that all the time, even if the prey is within a foot > (a fly on the wall, for instance). I also noticed that when one cat > does that, all other cats look in the direction the "hunter" is facing > and they all stand still or approach with caution (crouching). That?s > why I thought it was a communication of some sort. It might be just that. I don't think anyone has definitively answered the question. We all takes guesses. :) Signature-- ~kaeli~ A man's home is his castle..., in a manor of speaking. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace "Liz" > > I always wondered why cats do that chirping sound when they are about > to attack something. It is supposed to mimic the motion they use when breaking the neck of a small rodent or bird, I have heard. If you watch them, their jaws are essentially snapping. > There's the health aspect, certainly, but I have a hard time seeing a > Persian successfully hunting due to the (most popular, it seems to me) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > would survive long on their own. They never ever tried to hurt my pet > rats. *heh* When you used the word "soft" in your original post, I thought you were talking about the cat´s behavior toward people, not about hunting habits. I really can´t remember if this Persian I had ever got anything in terms of hunting. Two of the fourteen cats I have today are outstanding hunters. One of them is the mother I adopted at the end of 2002 so she is probably teaching her four "kittens" to hunt and eat their prey. She will eat whatever crosses her way: from moths to birds. > Plus, this is just from what I've seen in documentaries and such, but > for some reason it seems that feral cats are all shorthaired. I wonder > if this is because the long hair mats badly and interferes with movement > (as I've seen on that animal rescue show) and thus the cat cannot hunt > properly... I know from experience that long-haired cats have some trouble keeping themselves clean. They are more vulnerable to parasites and skin diseases and they have a hard time cleaning their wounds, so they would be sorted out in nature quite quickly. Another problem is smell. If a predator stinks, he will be easily perceived by his prey and will end up starving. I can´t think of any predator in nature with really long fur. The longest fur I can remember is that of the polar fox during winter. But that kind of habitat really doesn´t have that many parasites. > When you used the word "soft" in your original post, I thought you > were talking about the cat?s behavior toward people, not about hunting > habits. I meant that they are soft like most people are soft - used to having what they need provided for them. Mostly, this was in terms of hunting, but also basic survival skills. I mean, how many people could just go into the woods and live for a month? Two months? Not many. We can't hunt, we can't build a shelter, we'd eat poisonous things, we can't keep warm without a fire, most of us can't build a fire without matches...etc. Most housecats are the same - they are used to having shelter, food, warmth, and safety. IMO, the modifications made to many purebreds to make them "pretty" and friendly and good pets made them even less suited to being able to survive on their own. We all, humans, dogs, and cats, still have some basic instincts, but few of us have the physical or mental capability to survive alone. Now, not all purebreds have been modified in a "bad" way - I don't want to overgeneralize. I bet Bengals would do great. And not all moggies would do well, either. > I really can?t remember if this Persian I had ever got > anything in terms of hunting. Two of the fourteen cats I have today > are outstanding hunters. One of them is the mother I adopted at the > end of 2002 so she is probably teaching her four "kittens" to hunt and > eat their prey. She will eat whatever crosses her way: from moths to > birds. Which means she can get out to do so - many, many cats are never allowed to even go out on their own to learn to hunt. And from what I understand, effective hunting is mostly learned. An adult cat can surely learn in time, but IMO, by the time they did, they'd be dead (assuming no other food source). The barn cats are extraordinary hunters. But they live in the barn. They're friendly enough, but they don't really rely on people, at least not like my cats do. They aren't afraid of people, but they don't NEED people. > I know from experience that long-haired cats have some trouble keeping > themselves clean. They are more vulnerable to parasites and skin [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > during winter. But that kind of habitat really doesn?t have that many > parasites. Pretty much what I was thinking. There are no animals in nature with really long fur. Thick, yes, but not long like our longhaired cats. Signature-- ~kaeli~ Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > I can´t think of any predator in nature with really >long fur. The longest fur I can remember is that of the polar fox >during winter. But that kind of habitat really doesn´t have that many >parasites. The type of fur that Persian cats have is hard to maintain, but cats that originated in cold climates--the Norwegian Forest Cat, or the Siberian, for example--have a different quality of coat. Since these cats originally lived and survived outdoors in a harsh environment, having a heavy coat of fur was an advantage to them. Like most other natural predators in such climates, they shed the heavier part of their coat in summer. So whether or not a long-haired cat is more apt to survive than a short-haired one largely depends on the environment. yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) wrote in message > The type of fur that Persian cats have is hard to maintain, but cats that > originated in cold climates--the Norwegian Forest Cat, or the Siberian, for > example--have a different quality of coat. I´ve never seen those cats. Is their fur as long as the Persian´s? >yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) wrote in message >> The type of fur that Persian cats have is hard to maintain, but cats that >> originated in cold climates--the Norwegian Forest Cat, or the Siberian, for >> example--have a different quality of coat. > >I´ve never seen those cats. Is their fur as long as the Persian´s? I think the winter coats are perhaps longer than a Persian's, but it's not the same texture. They have coats similar to the Maine Coon, but the ones I've seen at shows have longer fur than the MC's. Here are some pictures: http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/articles/norwegian.html http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/siberian.html > >yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) wrote in message > Here are some pictures: > http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/articles/norwegian.html > http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/siberian.html Those cats are gorgeous! My Persian had very long fur, something like 5 to 6 inches long. It came to a point where he simply couldn´t stand being brushed anymore so from that point on I decided to keep his fur short. He was another cat. He really seemed very very very happy to get rid of that nuisance (his fur). For the first time in his life, he could actually feel his tongue on his skin when he cleaned himself. After that, I never let his fur grow again beyond 1 or 1.5 inches. >Those cats are gorgeous! My Persian had very long fur, something like >5 to 6 inches long. It came to a point where he simply couldn´t stand [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >could actually feel his tongue on his skin when he cleaned himself. >After that, I never let his fur grow again beyond 1 or 1.5 inches. LOL. We adopted a long-haired stray cat last summer. I'm thinking maybe she would like her fur trimmed short like that because she isn't very good at grooming it and because it mats, she doesn't much like for us to comb her near where it tends to mat. She's a young cat but I'm sure whoever had her originally never groomed her. She isn't anything like a Persian but she still has the kind of fur that mats. I think some cats would be happier without that long fur. > >Those cats are gorgeous! My Persian had very long fur, something like > >5 to 6 inches long. It came to a point where he simply couldn´t stand [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > has the kind of fur that mats. I think some cats would be happier without that > long fur. Give it a try. I believe she´ll love her new look. ;) Let me know how she likes it. > If the only cats allowed to breed are the strays and those belonging to > 'irresponsible' cat owners what happens to the gene pool in time? My guess is that the gene pool would become stronger. I'm thinking of my sister's dogs - the purebreds & the mixed breeds. So far, the longest living (he's 17) & healthiest of the bunch is a mixed breed, who was picked up by her husband as a stray when he was a puppy. I'm also thinking of the various cat breeds, & how people have manipulated them so that some breeds are now prone to this or that malady - as certain dog breeds are, also - doing little to enhance their health or longevity. Cathy -- "When it's not too hot, not too cold Not too meek, not too bold When it's just right and you have sunlight..." ("Hurricane Eye") Paul Simon We > are told that prey animals are made stronger as a whole because their > enemies eleminate the weak and old. Would that theory not work in > reverse for cats? I realize that this is not the question of the > century. I'm interested in your thoughts on this. very time I see an > absolutly gorgeous cat that id love tohave a kitten from m told it's > been 'fixed' (I have 5 well-cared for strays). > If the only cats allowed to breed are the strays and those belonging to > 'irresponsible' cat owners what happens to the gene pool in time? The gene pool will grow stronger. It thrives on diversity. When cats are selectively bred illnesses and genetic defects are bred in. >The gene pool will grow stronger. It thrives on diversity. When cats >are selectively bred illnesses and genetic defects are bred in. Does this happen even when cats are selectively bred to reduce or eliminate illnesses and genetic defects? > >The gene pool will grow stronger. It thrives on diversity. When cats > >are selectively bred illnesses and genetic defects are bred in. > > Does this happen even when cats are selectively bred to reduce or eliminate > illnesses and genetic defects? Probaby not, but that is not usually what they are bred for. Are you a breeder? >> >The gene pool will grow stronger. It thrives on diversity. When >cats [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Probaby not, but that is not usually what they are bred for. Are you a >breeder? No, but I like to go to cat shows so I've met a number of breeders. I don't know any that are not trying to eliminate genetic defects in their breeding programs, nor would they breed an unhealthy cat. > >> >The gene pool will grow stronger. It thrives on diversity. When > >cats [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > know any that are not trying to eliminate genetic defects in their breeding > programs, nor would they breed an unhealthy cat. I've gone to cat shows & enjoyed them. But... what about the super-squished faces/noses of today's Persians, for ex? Cathy -- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon >I've gone to cat shows & enjoyed them. But... what about the super-squished >faces/noses of today's Persians, for ex? > >Cathy Pfft. Rosettes. That's what it's about. Sherry > >I've gone to cat shows & enjoyed them. But... what about the super-squished > >faces/noses of today's Persians, for ex? > > > >Cathy > > Pfft. Rosettes. That's what it's about. My niece has one of these faceless cats. The poor creature has had tumors and respiratory problems from kittenhood and just looks like such a freak. I have been able to conceal my contempt for the fact that she paid $300 for this animal when there are so many strays needing a home, but did get my point across. She had actually purchased two of these sad cats, but one had so many tumors and other problems they had to put him down. >My niece has one of these faceless cats. The poor creature has had >tumors and respiratory problems from kittenhood and just looks like [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >purchased two of these sad cats, but one had so many tumors and other >problems they had to put him down. Geez almighty. I know I'm telling the same story twice (or more) but damn, this cat we got at the H.S. She was a persian. Her owned died. This cat's eyes ran constantly so her face was a mucky mess if we missed just one day washing her. The poor thing just looked like a freak. Sherry > >I've gone to cat shows & enjoyed them. But... what about the super-squished > >faces/noses of today's Persians, for ex? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sherry Except it makes no *sense* to me, even in terms of rosettes. The original Persians were much, much prettier, IMO, than these super-squished noses. Never mind their health... Cathy -- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon >Except it makes no *sense* to me, even in terms of rosettes. The original >Persians were much, much prettier, IMO, than these super-squished noses. >Never mind their health... > >Cathy No, it sure doesn't make any sense. But anytime the judges start preferring a particular trait, and awarding to those cats....everybody else starts breeding for that "desirable" trait. The last time I was at a cat show (at least six years ago)...it looked like a trend was starting where the Maine Coons with lynx tips always won. I figured before too long, the breeders would manipulate their gene pools to produce every maine coon with LT's. Just my opinion. Sherry > >Except it makes no *sense* to me, even in terms of rosettes. The original > >Persians were much, much prettier, IMO, than these super-squished noses. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > breeding for that "desirable" trait. > Sherry And nobody cares about how the animal feels. The judges should have that nose for a while, say 2 or 3 years, and see how they feel. The breeders certainly deserve it too. >And nobody cares about how the animal feels. The judges should have >that nose for a while, say 2 or 3 years, and see how they feel. The >breeders certainly deserve it too. If you think the judges and breeders don't care how cats feel, can I assume you haven't been to many cat shows and talked to them? yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) wrote in message > >And nobody cares about how the animal feels. The judges should have > >that nose for a while, say 2 or 3 years, and see how they feel. The > >breeders certainly deserve it too. > > > If you think the judges and breeders don't care how cats feel, can I assume > you haven't been to many cat shows and talked to them? I assumed that based on what somebody has said that judges were prefering persians with flatter noses. You´re right, I have never been to a show and wouldn´t go to one either. I can´t support an activity that is contrary to my ethics. Breeding for standard, for speed, for size, for productivity, and for anything else but health is contrary to my ethics. >I assumed that based on what somebody has said that judges were >prefering persians with flatter noses. You´re right, I have never been >to a show and wouldn´t go to one either. I can´t support an activity >that is contrary to my ethics. Breeding for standard, for speed, for >size, for productivity, and for anything else but health is contrary >to my ethics. Yes, I was beginning to surmise that some of the people here criticizing cat shows had never actually been to one. Let me give you my perspective, however: Went to a cat show over the weekend with a couple of friends. Of course part of the fun is seeing all the beautiful cats (including the ones in the household standard, which are beautiful non-purebred cats), but we also visited some of the education rings. My friend wanted to hear the lecture about caring for senior cats, and she picked up some good tips on how to make things easier for her arthritic cat to get around her apartment. Another friend stopped to talk to one of the many shelters that had booths there, and discussed with them how we could trap and have neutered some of the ferals that live near her house. In fact, the shelter agreed to accept some of the cats for placement if we could help socialize them. Of course we all bought way too many cat toys, but there were so many vendors there you have a much better selection of good quality cat toys and grooming products at better prices than you would ever find at a retail store. And many of these vendors are individuals who are making toys by hand and donated part of the proceeds to shelters or other cat welfare organizations. It's great to find so many products made by people who seem to really understand what cats like. At some shows there are also lots of vendors giving away samples of various foods, litters, etc. but there were only a couple of reps at this one. However, it is often a way to try foods or other products you haven't found elsewhere. Plus we met lots of other friendly people who are cat lovers and just want to talk and share knowledge about cats. So perhaps you can see why some cat lovers do like to attend cat shows, even if they are not particularly interested in owning purebred cats. >Of course we all bought way too many cat toys, but there were so many vendors >there you have a much better selection of good quality cat toys and grooming [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >various foods, litters, etc. but there were only a couple of reps at this >one. Cat shows are the coolest place to buy toys! Also, they are always having "drawings" at the ones I used to go to with the grandcat, and we just about always won something. >Cat shows are the coolest place to buy toys! Also, they are always having >"drawings" at the ones I used to go to with the grandcat, and we just about >always won something. They are also the best places to buy cat furniture and good quality scratching posts, IMO. You can deal directly with the person who builds the cat trees, so I've found that you can buy much better quality cat trees and scratchers at a far better price than you could at some place like Petsmart. A friend of mine bought a huge cat tree--floor to ceiling--a couple years ago at an amazing discount because she went late in the day on Sunday, and the vendor was marking everything down like crazy because he didn't want to have to haul so many cat trees back home. >>Cat shows are the coolest place to buy toys! Also, they are always having >>"drawings" at the ones I used to go to with the grandcat, and we just about [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >everything down like crazy because he didn't want to have to haul so many cat >trees back home. There's a guy who used to make the cat show circuit with his cat trees...he lived in Houston but went all over. My daughter had him make her one to her specifications. It was awesome. If anybody ever catches him at a cat show, he does great work at a decent price. I can't recall his name. But that's true of most of the vendors I've found--even if you don't care for purebred cats, a cat show is a good place to "network" with sellers and other cat people. Even rescue org's....usually they were given cage space to bring adoptable pets. Sherry yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) wrote in message > Yes, I was beginning to surmise that some of the people here criticizing cat > shows had never actually been to one. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > So perhaps you can see why some cat lovers do like to attend cat shows, even if > they are not particularly interested in owning purebred cats. Hummmmmmm......... I might visit one sometime. I wonder if they would be similar here? >> So perhaps you can see why some cat lovers do like to attend cat shows, >even if >> they are not particularly interested in owning purebred cats. > >Hummmmmmm......... I might visit one sometime. I wonder if they would >be similar here? That I don't know, but if you are ever interested, what you could do is look online for cat shows in your area, and their Web site should tell you what sort of vendors, rescue organizations, shelters and educators will be at the show. The recent show I mentioned was promoted on tv by a sort of celebrity vet, who said it was a great place to see "a lot of unusual cats you aren't going to see in your local alley" and of course he talked about all the vendors and educators and rescuers. I think a lot people go to these shows more to find cat products and information and perhaps to gawk at types of cats they wouldn't ordinarily see than because they actually want to own a purebred cat someday. But since I know that cat shows in the U.K. are somewhat different than they are in the U.S., it's possible shows in your country are different as well. > Went to a cat show over the weekend with a couple of friends. Of course part of > the fun is seeing all the beautiful cats (including the ones in the household > standard, which are beautiful non-purebred cats), How does one enter such cats in these contests? >> Went to a cat show over the weekend with a couple of friends. Of course >part of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >How does one enter such cats in these contests? Do you mean in the household pet division? Well, here's a quote from the CFA Web site: "If you have a show-stopping, mixed breed charmer at home and are interested in joining the cat lovers who partake in the good fellowship of exhibiting at CFA shows, please explore our show schedule for a show near you, and call the listed entry clerk for further information to see if that show has a Household Pet Class. An entry form is available for downloading." I'd imagine it's the same with TICA. You can start by going to the cat fancies' Web sites to find an upcoming show near you. It's best to attend a show first so you can see what it's like. Household Pets are not judged by any set standard, as the purebred cats are. >years ago)...it looked like a trend was starting where the Maine Coons with >lynx tips always won. I figured before too long, the breeders would manipulate >their gene pools to produce every maine coon with LT's. What are lynx tips? -- Bogus e-mail address, but I read this newsgroup regularly, so reply here. >>years ago)...it looked like a trend was starting where the Maine Coons with >>lynx tips always won. I figured before too long, the breeders would [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >-- It's the pointy hair on the tips of the ears, like a Lynx has. Sherry > Except it makes no *sense* to me, even in terms of rosettes. The > original Persians were much, much prettier, IMO, than these > super-squished noses. Never mind their health... I watched some of the dog show that was on USA and the little Pekinese that won "best in show" reminds me of the smoosh-faced persians. That dog didn't even look like a dog, it looked like... hmm.. I can't think of what it looked like. Same on the front and back. It could have been running backwards and I couldn't tell. I know everyone loves those little toy dogs but they are so far removed from "wolf" that I can't understand how they evolved. I guess that is what I love about cats. They still look like their ancestors. SignatureCheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II >I've gone to cat shows & enjoyed them. But... what about the super-squished >faces/noses of today's Persians, for ex? As far as I can tell, the breeders have been backing away from the extreme faces for a while now. Lately in fact, I don't see nearly as many Persians at shows anyway. The Maine Coons seem the most popular these days. To be honest, the breeders I have met and become acquaintanced with are breeders of types of cats that have few known genetic health problems--like Birmans, Chartreux, American and British shorthairs, etc. I only know one Persian breeder well, but she breeds silvers and golds and for some reason that type has not had the extreme faces. I don't particularly like Persians so those aren't the cages I gravitate to. > >I've gone to cat shows & enjoyed them. But... what about the super-squished > >faces/noses of today's Persians, for ex? > > As far as I can tell, the breeders have been backing away from the extreme > faces for a while now. I *hope* so - maybe the pendulum finally swung too far over & crashed into the wall, waking them up?? Cathy -- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon Lately in fact, I don't see nearly as many Persians at > shows anyway. The Maine Coons seem the most popular these days. To be honest, > the breeders I have met and become acquaintanced with are breeders of types of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > extreme faces. I don't particularly like Persians so those aren't the cages I > gravitate to. >> As far as I can tell, the breeders have been backing away from the >> extreme faces for a while now. > > I *hope* so - maybe the pendulum finally swung too far over & crashed > into the wall, waking them up?? Yeah. But what happens to all the persians that have no place in the show for the moment? SignatureCheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II >Yeah. But what happens to all the persians that have no place in the show >for the moment? What do you mean? If a cat isn't show quality, it wouldn't be shown. The majority of cats a breeder has are not going to be show quality. Feb 2004: >>Yeah. But what happens to all the persians that have no place in the >>show for the moment? >> > What do you mean? If a cat isn't show quality, it wouldn't be shown. > The majority of cats a breeder has are not going to be show quality. Yngver, I only meant that it seems so many want a persian because of the status symbol placed on them. If there was no more status, no one would want them, show or no show. With the numbers pumped out by both responsible breeders and BYB, they wouldn't rate and would probably move as fast as the homeless black cats, or homeless black and white cats. Only they are harder to take care of. I was merely speculating. SignatureCheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II >Yngver, I only meant that it seems so many want a persian because of the >status symbol placed on them. I don't know, that could be so. The people I know that have bought Persians just bought them because they thought they were cute. I guess you could be right; I just don't know anyone who wanted a Persian for that reason. If there was no more status, no one would >want them, show or no show. Oh, no, I think many people do like them because the kittens look so cute. With the numbers pumped out by both responsible >breeders and BYB, they wouldn't rate and would probably move as fast as the >homeless black cats, or homeless black and white cats. I don't understand your reasoning here. What do you mean, they wouldn't rate? Only they are harder >to take care of. I was merely speculating. Yes, unfortunately many people buy a Persian on impulse without realizing how much work it is to care for them. Feb 2004: > With the numbers pumped out by both responsible >>breeders and BYB, they wouldn't rate and would probably move as fast >>as the homeless black cats, or homeless black and white cats. > > I don't understand your reasoning here. What do you mean, they > wouldn't rate? Rate. Wrong word. Moveable? Adoptalbe? Buy-able? Black cats and black/white cats are notorious for being hard to adopt out because they are so common. I think persian homeless are easy to adopt out because of the status symbol placed on [having?] one [even solid black ones]. Look at commercials. Fancy Feast uses a persian and the food is placed in a regal glass bowl, for the regal cat. If persians were all of a sudden not "regal" anymore because of a change in show ethics or change of attitude, there are tons of persians out there bred for shows, or for people who just want a persian, what would happen to them? <sigh> SignatureCheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II >Look at commercials. Fancy Feast uses a persian and the food is placed in a >regal glass bowl, for the regal cat. If persians were all of a sudden not >"regal" anymore because of a change in show ethics or change of attitude, >there are tons of persians out there bred for shows, or for people who just >want a persian, what would happen to them? <sigh> Right. And TV. I shudder to think how many people ran out and bought Persians just because they thought Mr. Bigglesworth was cute. And got rid of them as soon as they realize how tremendously high-maintenance their coats are. Sherry >Right. And TV. I shudder to think how many people ran out and bought Persians >just because they thought Mr. Bigglesworth was cute. And got rid of them as >soon as they realize how tremendously high-maintenance their coats are. Mr. Bigglesworth before he became a Sphynx cat was supposed to resemble the silver Persian featured in the early James Bond movies. I'm sure lots of people saw that cat too and wanted one. You are right, any time a breed of cat or dog is featured on tv and movies, it seems lots of people want to buy them without knowing what they are getting into. My last boss ran out and bought a St. Bernard puppy for his kids after seeing whatever movie that was then that featured one, and then he complained endlessly about how that dog was eating him out of house and home. Duh. It's a St. Bernard; what did you think? And every time there's a 101 Dalmations release, every kid wants a dalmation. >And every time there's a 101 Dalmations release, every kid wants a dalmation. Oh, geez, you just flipped my switch. Everytime Disney releases a new Dalmations movie, mark your calendar, anywhere from 4-6 months later there's an influx of Dalmations at the shelter. We even considered going to the theater and handing out information on the breed! They are *so* high-maintenance, and so *not* good dogs for small children. Sherry >Oh, geez, you just flipped my switch. >Everytime Disney releases a new Dalmations movie, mark your calendar, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >are *so* high-maintenance, and so *not* good dogs for small children. >Sherry Excuse me while I spell-flame myself. Our annual fundraiser charity auction//dance is called "The Dalmatian Ball" and *invariably* I spell the word wrong on invitations, programs, you name it. And look at me now, spelling it wrong again. Sherry >>Oh, geez, you just flipped my switch. >>Everytime Disney releases a new Dalmations movie, mark your calendar, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >wrong on invitations, programs, you name it. And look at me now, spelling it >wrong again. Gee, I spelled it wrong too. I think it would be a good idea to hand out info on the breed at the theaters! Wish that could be done every time a particular breed of cat or dog is featured. Or maybe not so much featured as perhaps misrepresented. |
Enable EMail Alerts
Start New Thread
Reply to this Message