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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2004cats looking in the mirror
I know that cats cannot "self-recognize" when they look into the mirror. But why don't they think the image is, at the very least, another cat? I did a self-recognition study with chimpanzees in college for my honors thesis (it was fascinating). The first phase of interaction with the mirror (before they caught on that they were looking at themselves) was always a social behavior of some sort. They thought they were seeing another chimp in the mirror, so the behaviors would be play invitations or aggression. I'm just interested in why/ how cats don't see themselves in the mirror and think it's another cat? -Jen Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright > I know that cats cannot "self-recognize" when they look into the mirror. But > why don't they think the image is, at the very least, another cat? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > -Jen > Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright As far as I know, they often do think it's another cat. I remember waking up one morning, years ago, to the sound of growls coming from downstairs. When I rushed down, I found one of my cats looking in a mirror that I had temporarily placed at floor level, and trying to get behind it to get at the cat he could see, all the time growling like crazy. I think it all depends on how they encounter the mirror image; in this case, it was at floor level, and every stalking move he made just made him more convinced that there was another cat there to fight with. Deb  SignatureDon't let perfection get in the way of 'pretty damn good'. - "Coach" Jack Donohue circa Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:45:20 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Iain & Deb (sugarpopspete@hotmail.com) said, > As far as I know, they often do think it's another cat. I remember > waking up one morning, years ago, to the sound of growls coming from [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > case, it was at floor level, and every stalking move he made just made > him more convinced that there was another cat there to fight with. Two of my bedrooms have full-length mirrors built into the backs of the doors. Oscar always tries to figure out how to get into that "other room", but he definitely doesn't think it's another cat in the mirror. In fact, in my last place, he used to sit on the counter and look in the mirror to see me when I was showering. :-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. circa Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:45:20 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Iain & Deb (sugarpopspete@hotmail.com) said, > As far as I know, they often do think it's another cat. I remember > waking up one morning, years ago, to the sound of growls coming from [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > case, it was at floor level, and every stalking move he made just made > him more convinced that there was another cat there to fight with. Two of my bedrooms have full-length mirrors built into the backs of the doors. Oscar always tries to figure out how to get into that "other room", but he definitely doesn't think it's another cat in the mirror. In fact, in my last place, he used to sit on the counter and look in the mirror to see me when I was showering. :-) Most of my cats have refused to look in a mirror. Hold them up to one and they look the other direction. Boots on the other hand loves looking at himself in the mirror. He climbs up on my dresser and then on top of my jewelry box so he can see himself. He just sits there looking. Who can figure cats. Wendy circa Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:35:36 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Wendy (wendypart@nospam.com) said, > Two of my bedrooms have full-length mirrors built into the backs of > the doors. Oscar always tries to figure out how to get into that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > jewelry box so he can see himself. He just sits there looking. Who can > figure cats. My oldest cat doesn't pay the slightest bit of attention to mirrors except to chase the light that reflects off of hand mirrors. My second oldest doesn't really seem to notice them much, either. Only Oscar the Goofball displays interest, and only in big mirrors. Then again, whenever I open a closet, he hauls a$$ into it, then sits there looking like he just won a prize. He also tries to crawl into empty kleenex boxes, usually managing to get his head and one paw in, whereupon he sits down thinking he has hidden himself. He's not really the sharpest knife in the drawer. :-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > circa Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:35:36 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > Wendy (wendypart@nospam.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Laura ROTFLMAO!!! Oh thank you, I needed that!! :) circa Sun, 01 Feb 2004 19:18:12 -0800, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Karen M. (mskitty@NOSPAMeasystreet.com) said, > > My oldest cat doesn't pay the slightest bit of attention to mirrors > > except to chase the light that reflects off of hand mirrors. My [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > ROTFLMAO!!! Oh thank you, I needed that!! :) I should start filming him. He cracks me up. :-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > circa Sun, 01 Feb 2004 19:18:12 -0800, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > Karen M. (mskitty@NOSPAMeasystreet.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > > I should start filming him. He cracks me up. :-) This is a good idea. :) I might pay to watch one. circa Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:51:02 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, > > > > Oscar the Goofball displays interest, and only in big mirrors. > Then [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > This is a good idea. :) I might pay to watch one. Guess I'll have to dust off the cameras when I get home. :-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > circa Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:51:02 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Laura I just read that again, and cracked up. You really should film him, it would be hilarious! My new digital camera has a record feature, I have to start taping some of my dingbats' antics as well... :) circa Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:33:31 -0800, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Karen M. (mskitty@NOSPAMeasystreet.com) said, > > circa Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:51:02 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > > Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > would be hilarious! My new digital camera has a record feature, I have > to start taping some of my dingbats' antics as well... :) I think I'm gonna do it. I know that at least one of my digital cameras does film, and I've got a regular video camera that I never use. Might as well chew up some bits on goofy cat films. :-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. circa Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:33:31 -0800, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Karen M. (mskitty@NOSPAMeasystreet.com) said, > > circa Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:51:02 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > > Mary (rosefan@email.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > would be hilarious! My new digital camera has a record feature, I have > to start taping some of my dingbats' antics as well... :) As further evidence of Oscar's not-too-bright status, read this... Due to Oscar's closet compulsion (I can't emphasize enough how strong it is- I'll open a closet in an entirely different room and hear his chubby butt tearing down the hallway so that he can run into it), I am usually very careful to drag him out of whatever closet he has stashed himself in before I leave for work in the morning. Well, a week or so ago, I was remiss and didn't notice that he'd gotten back into a closet that I'd just pulled him out of, and I closed it on my way out of the bedroom. When I got home, *Camille* was the first cat to meet me at the door, which is never the case. It's usually Oscar first, then either Jacob or Camille (generally Jacob), then whichever one is left. I noted this as odd in the back of my mind, then hung up my coat and whatnot, expecting to see the two boys along any second. Jacob came along soon enough, which was when I started to worry, because Oscar usually glues himself to Jacob. I started wandering around the apartment calling Oscar and looking in his usual sleeping spots. Nothing. I kept calling, still no response. Meanwhile, Camille was hovering around the doorway to my bedroom looking panicked, which is pretty much a normal state of mind for the little chickensh*t, but she wasn't following me trying to lick my feet like she usually does when I get home. I walked into my bedroom and called for Oscar again, and finally heard him peeping (he really does peep) from within one of the closets. Of course, I immediately freaked out as he had been in there all day with no food, water or litter, so I rushed to open the door and kiss all over him. Rather than running for the litterbox or his food, the goof decided that it was much more important to milk Mommy's guilt and purr and suck up for a bit. He didn't appear the least bit upset once he got out of the closet, soon he went to eat and pee. A half-hour or so later, I opened one of the closets to hang up some clothes. Oscar tore a$$ right back into the closet again, sat his butt down and looked up with his usual "Look at me, I'm so FAAAAST!" look. <sigh> Like I said, he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. ;-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. Feb 2004: > Like I said, he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. ;-) LOL Great story. My RB cat Marley was a closet freak. He also had an obsession with closed doors. There just shouldn't be any. He could open any door except locked ones. I never closed closet doors with him around because he'd just open them any way. And those with latches he'd claw the hell out of so I couldn't close doors to rooms, either. He was hysterical. LOL The look of sheer joy when all the doors were open. It was like his job was done and then he'd go lay down and take a nap. SignatureCheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II This is something Sugar loves to do. I catch her looking at herself all the time. Sometimes, I could swear she is "admiring" herself. This picture doesn't quite capture that feeling, but it is a pretty customary place to find her. http://home.earthlink.net/~kchuplis/ Karen 2004: > This is something Sugar loves to do. I catch her looking at herself > all the time. Sometimes, I could swear she is "admiring" herself. This > picture doesn't quite capture that feeling, but it is a pretty > customary place to find her. > > http://home.earthlink.net/~kchuplis/ She knows she's beautiful! :) I notice my cats doing the same thing someone else said -- they look at me through my reflection in the mirror, especially in the morning when I'm getting ready for work. Though one time I scared the sh.t out of Bonnie when she was watching me in the full length mirror then realized I was behind her. lol SignatureCheryl Trapped like rats. In a chia-pet. MIB II circa 03 Feb 2004 01:12:14 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cheryl (jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com) said, > She knows she's beautiful! :) I notice my cats doing the same thing > someone else said -- they look at me through my reflection in the mirror, > especially in the morning when I'm getting ready for work. Though one time > I scared the sh.t out of Bonnie when she was watching me in the full length > mirror then realized I was behind her. lol If I walk up behind Oscar when he's checking things out in a mirror, he peeps at me and gets all happy. Then he realizes I'm behind him. <G> Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. >This is something Sugar loves to do. I catch her looking at herself all the >time. Sometimes, I could swear she is "admiring" herself. This picture [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Karen That is so cute! She *does* look like she's admiring herself! Sherry > This is something Sugar loves to do. I catch her looking at herself all the > time. Sometimes, I could swear she is "admiring" herself. This picture [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Karen Haha! "Oh yes, I'm the stuff. Look at those eyes, that coat! *Sniff*" She's so pretty. circa Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:04:24 -0600, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Karen Chuplis (kchuplis@alltel.net) said, > This is something Sugar loves to do. I catch her looking at herself all the > time. Sometimes, I could swear she is "admiring" herself. This picture > doesn't quite capture that feeling, but it is a pretty customary place to > find her. > > http://home.earthlink.net/~kchuplis/ I think that picture does, indeed, capture the feeling. She seems to be quite enamored of herself. :-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. Hey, I remember when my cat was a kitty and used to freak out at the sight of herself. But she got used to it, maybe it has something to do with the smell. I remember there was research carried out with dolphins and they were not only able to recognise themselves, but changes as well i.e. a magic marker mark. Which other animals can recognise themselves and/or changes to them? Sonny London, England http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a > I know that cats cannot "self-recognize" when they look into the mirror. But > why don't they think the image is, at the very least, another cat? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > -Jen > Half the people you know are below average. -Steven Wright >I remember when my cat was a kitty and used to freak out at the sight of >herself. But she got used to it, maybe it has something to do with the >smell. I remember there was research carried out with dolphins and they were >not only able to recognise themselves, but changes as well i.e. a magic >marker mark. Which other animals can recognise themselves and/or changes to >them? It seems apparent to me that cats can recognize themselves in the mirror as cats, but they soon figure out they aren't "real" cats. When we first brought home our older cat as a kitten, she saw herself in a floor length mirror and became very excited, running up to her image mewing. It seemed clear to me that she thought what she saw was one of her littermates (who looked just like her). After some time, however, she eventually learned that mirror images are not "real"--they don't smell like other cats and you can't interact with them. So she soon started ignoring her image. circa 26 Jan 2004 22:44:23 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Yngver (yngver@aol.comnospam) said, > It seems apparent to me that cats can recognize themselves in the mirror as > cats, but they soon figure out they aren't "real" cats. When we first brought [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "real"--they don't smell like other cats and you can't interact with them. So > she soon started ignoring her image. I think you're right about the smell thing- cats are *so* dependent on their smell that the lack of smell in the "other" cat is probably what helps them figure out that it isn't "real". Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > I know that cats cannot "self-recognize" when they look into the mirror. But > why don't they think the image is, at the very least, another cat? What's to say they don't? I think they do recognize themselves, for one. SignatureDennis Carr - ke6isf@spamcop.net | I may be out of my mind, http://www.dennis.furtopia.org | But I have more fun that way. ------------------------------------+-------------------------------
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