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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / February 2004Food Question
I give my two kitties (almost one year old) dry cat food....is this okay or should I be giving them canned? Thanks! Christina -- http://www.geocities.com/christinamarie29/ourpage.html > I give my two kitties (almost one year old) dry cat food....is > this okay or should I be giving them canned? As long as it's a good quality dry food there's no need to give them canned. I have four cats. One doesn't like canned food at all so she only eats dry. I feed them all Purina ONE, although I know there are better (and more expensive) brands out there. 8^)~~~ Sue (remove the x to e-mail) ~~~~~~ "I reserve the absolute right to be smarter today than I was yesterday." -Adlai Stevenson ************************************************* http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/ http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/ Hi Sue and thanks for the advice! If you read my response to Lauren, you'll see that I have been buying Walmart brand "Special Kitty". Can you tell me about how much a bag of Purina ONE costs? Thank you!! Christina -- http://www.geocities.com/christinamarie29/ourpage.html > > I give my two kitties (almost one year old) dry cat food....is > > this okay or should I be giving them canned? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/ > http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/ > Hi Sue and thanks for the advice! If you read my response to Lauren, you'll > see that I have been buying Walmart brand "Special Kitty". Can you tell me > about how much a bag of Purina ONE costs? Thank you!! I think a seven pound bag costs about seven dollars at Wal-Mart. It could cost more or less where you live. Wal-Mart checks prices at other local stores to be sure their prices are lower. (It's called "comping," if you care!) "Special Kitty" is probably one of the worst brands to buy, IMHO. Same for the "Ol' Roy" Wal-Mart brand of dog food. 8^)~~~ Sue (remove the x to e-mail) ~~~~~~ "I reserve the absolute right to be smarter today than I was yesterday." -Adlai Stevenson ************************************************* http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/ http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/ I actually buy Ol Roy for my bassett hound (whereas she used to get Purina Beneful), but money is so tight that we've had to make many changes. We have a family of six, two cats and one dog and are having a hard time just keeping the utilities on which is why I ended up buying the Walmart brands. I realize I shouldn't have taken on the responsibility for two cats, but the lady who was fostering them made me feel guilty for not taking both since they were brothers, so my husband and I adopted both of them even though we were intending to get one kitten. Anyway, they seem to love it and drink plenty of water, but I'm curious if anyone in the group knows why the walmart brand is known as the worst brand to give your pet. Thanks for all of your help it's much appreciated. Christina -- http://www.geocities.com/christinamarie29/ourpage.html > > Hi Sue and thanks for the advice! If you read my response to Lauren, you'll > > see that I have been buying Walmart brand "Special Kitty". Can you tell me [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/ > http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/ > I actually buy Ol Roy for my bassett hound (whereas she used to get Purina > Beneful), but money is so tight that we've had to make many changes. We [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >> http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/ >> http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/ Christina, Feed whatever you can afford. Wal-Mart's Ol'Roy and others don't use quality ingredients, that's why they are so cheap. But as long as your pets are eating it and if that's all you can afford, then that's all you can do. I'm sure your kitties would rather be in a loving home than in a shelter, right? When your finances improve, then you can start changing their diet. Thank you Karen, I was really starting to feel guilty about what I was feeding them. Come tax time I'll load up on the quality stuff lol.......... Christina -- http://www.geocities.com/christinamarie29/ourpage.html > > I actually buy Ol Roy for my bassett hound (whereas she used to get Purina > > Beneful), but money is so tight that we've had to make many changes. We [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > than in a shelter, right? When your finances improve, then you can start > changing their diet. circa Tue, 20 Jan 2004 05:12:17 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Christina (chris69@rtconline.com) said, > Thank you Karen, I was really starting to feel guilty about what I was > feeding them. Come tax time I'll load up on the quality stuff lol.......... When I was in college and dirt poor, I fed my cats Purina Cat Chow. It's not something I'd feed them now, but you do what you have to do. As others have said, a well-loved cat being fed less-than-perfect cat food is better off than a starving cat living on the street. Don't guilt yourself; when you can afford higher-quality food, I'm sure you'll feed your cats higher-quality food. :-) Laura  SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. >When I was in college and dirt poor, I fed my cats Purina Cat Chow. >It's not something I'd feed them now, but you do what you have to do. >As others have said, a well-loved cat being fed less-than-perfect cat >food is better off than a starving cat living on the street. Don't >guilt yourself; when you can afford higher-quality food, I'm sure >you'll feed your cats higher-quality food. :-) I agree. If all you can afford right now is a lower quality cat food, don't feel guilty about it. When I was in college I was feeding my cat Purina Cat Chow too, and maybe a little Meow Mix as well. I think that since she was a young, healthy cat, it didn't really do her any lasting harm to eat a less than optimum diet for a year or two. As I learned more about feline nutrition I switched to better diets. She lived to age 17. I do want to add, however, that switching to a high quality diet can make quite a visible difference in your cats' health. You may also find that they are actually consuming less food because higher quality foods are more nutritious, so the cost difference in the long run may not be as much as you expect. > > I give my two kitties (almost one year old) dry cat food....is > > this okay or should I be giving them canned? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > all so she only eats dry. I feed them all Purina ONE, although > I know there are better (and more expensive) brands out there. I should have also said to be sure they get plenty of water. 8^)~~~ Sue (remove the x to e-mail) ~~~~~~ "I reserve the absolute right to be smarter today than I was yesterday." -Adlai Stevenson ************************************************* http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/ http://www.intergnat.com/malebashing/ >From: "Christina" chris69@rtconline.com >I give my two kitties (almost one year old) dry cat food....is this okay or >should I be giving them canned? Hi Christina, I would absolutely recommend giving them a mostly canned diet. Cats are not meant to eat dry food. They are carnivores and also many cats don't drink enough water, thereby making their urine too concentrated whereby they can develop urinary crystals. Here's a good article: http://www.avma.org/convention/recap/news/tuesday16.asp Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm Lauren, thank you very much. Is there a particular brand that you buy? When I first had them I was buying the dry Kitten Chow, but they eat like little pigs (when the bowl is empty they really freak out lol) and with 4 children and very low income, I made the switch to Walmart's brand "Special Kitty" and they seem to like it. I had also bought cans of the Special Kitty which they love mixed in with the dry food...... I do have to wonder if buying the generic brand is okay for them. A few people I talked to said that there is nothing wrong with the walmart brand....opinions? If I have to buy a more expensive brand of food in order for the kitties to thrive and be healthy I must certainly will!! Thanks!! Christina -- http://www.geocities.com/christinamarie29/ourpage.html > >From: "Christina" chris69@rtconline.com > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: "Christina" chris69@rtconline.com >Lauren, thank you very much. Is there a particular brand that you buy? When >I first had them I was buying the dry Kitten Chow, but they eat like little >pigs (when the bowl is empty they really freak out lol) and with 4 children >and very low income, I made the switch to Walmart's brand "Special Kitty" >and they seem to like it. I had also bought cans of the Special Kitty which >they love mixed in with the dry food...... You're very welcome :) I make my cats' food, but some brands I would recommend are Wellness, Felidae, Innova and there's a new one I came across called Nature's Variety. These brands aren't found at places like Petco but you can usually find them at smaller pet supply stores or even places like Whole Foods. >I do have to wonder if buying the generic brand is okay for them. A few >people I talked to said that there is nothing wrong with the walmart >brand....opinions? If I have to buy a more expensive brand of food in order >for the kitties to thrive and be healthy I must certainly will!! You'll get lots of opinions here, as food is one of the most hotly debated topics in this group. I think if you can afford a good brand, go for it. I've seen cats that seem to do fine on the cheaper stuff but then I've seen cats do great on the good stuff. I personally think the most important thing is to give a cat a good home, and plenty of love, and that sounds like what you're doing. If you can't afford the very best food, then go for what you can afford for now. When your finances change, you can always change their food at that time. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >I make my cats' food, but some brands I would recommend >are Wellness, Felidae, Innova and there's a new one I came across called >Nature's Variety. What are the phosphorus and calcium levels in these foods? I'll give you a hint, they're quite high for a cat food. Also, any idea of what these foods will do for your cat's pH? This is what you end up with when you only look at an ingredient list! >From: gaubster2@aol.com (GAUBSTER2) >What are the phosphorus and calcium levels in these foods? I'll give you a >hint, they're quite high for a cat food. Also, any idea of what these foods >will do for your cat's pH? This is what you end up with when you only look >at >an ingredient list! Christina, ignore this poster. He's a troll who knows nothing about feline nutrition. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >>What are the phosphorus and calcium levels in these foods? I'll give you a >>hint, they're quite high for a cat food. Also, any idea of what these foods [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Christina, ignore this poster. He's a troll who knows nothing about feline >nutrition. Lauren, you are quite wrong. I know enough about feline nutrition to know that phosphorus and calcium levels as well as pH ranges of various cat foods can wreak havoc on a cat's health (like the ones you suggested). You just don't like the truth, so you try to paint me as a troll. The OP should look into the very issues I've posted about and decide for herself. She can always check with her vet and discuss feline nutrition to verify what I posted as well! You, on the other hand, have contradicted yourself so often here before, as to show that you've been less than truthful on a number of subjects. I (as well as others) have pointed this out and you think we are the trolls? I've provided a lot of good, helpful info in the past. Just because it flies in the face of what you preach, doesn't mean that you're right and everyone else is wrong. Christina should make up her own mind. >From: gaubster2@aol.com (GAUBSTER2) >Lauren, you are quite wrong. I know enough about feline nutrition to know >that >phosphorus and calcium levels as well as pH ranges of various cat foods can >wreak havoc on a cat's health (like the ones you suggested). Really? So what exactly are the numbers for the ones I've suggested and what data do you have to back up any claims you make? Any food that isn't Scie Die in your book is bad. You need to do some research really. >You just don't >like the truth, so you try to paint me as a troll. LOL, the fact is you ARE a troll, from the very first post you made here. You never post anything helpful and only post inflammatory remarks. I don't know why I'm wasting my time replying to you. You're as thick as a brick. >You, on the other hand, have contradicted yourself so often here before, as >to >show that you've been less than truthful on a number of subjects. I (as well >as others) have pointed this out and you think we are the trolls? LOL, here you go again. I've never lied, you just choose to not believe it when I told you my previous cats did so poorly on your cherised Science Diet. But unfortunately they did do poorly and didn't improve until I switched to another brand. I know you don't want to hear this, but it's the truth and you should learn to accept it instead of crying that I'm a liar. > I've >provided a lot of good, helpful info in the past. Now THAT is really hysterical. You have NEVER, not once, ever provided anything useful to anyone. You just run off at the mouth with nothing to say or no data to back up your claims. You know what I find very odd? You have never posted in any threads about cat behavior, declawing, etc. Do you have any opinions other than to feed Science Diet? > Just because it flies in the >face of what you preach, doesn't mean that you're right and everyone else is >wrong. Nope, just you, Chris, just you. >Christina should make up her own mind. I'm sure she will ;) ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >>You just don't >>like the truth, so you try to paint me as a troll. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >never post anything helpful and only post inflammatory remarks. I don't know >why I'm wasting my time replying to you. You're as thick as a brick. I've asked you to killfile me before because of your bitter, rude, nasty insults hurled my way. You've even said that you would, and yet you never do. Obviously you don't really think I'm a troll or you would have killfiled me already. (actually that's just one of the lies you've told, now that I think about it). >>You, on the other hand, have contradicted yourself so often here before, as >>to >>show that you've been less than truthful on a number of subjects. I (as >well >>as others) have pointed this out and you think we are the trolls? >LOL, here you go again. I've never lied, you just choose to not believe it >when I told you my previous cats did so poorly on your cherised Science Diet. No, I've said that I have BELIEVED you, yet you continue to insist that I've never said that. Do a google search and you'll see for yourself. As for the Science Diet issue, Phil P has posted a litany of contradictory remarks that YOU YOURSELF have made over the years. Those are the lies I'm talking about. >> I've >>provided a lot of good, helpful info in the past. > >Now THAT is really hysterical. You have NEVER, not once, ever provided >anything useful to anyone. You just run off at the mouth with nothing to say >or no data to back up your claims. Oh really? You always dispute the data that I DO provide, so what exactly do you want? Try cracking open Small Animal Clinical Nutrition sometime and you'll see my cites. >You know what I find very odd? You have >never posted in any threads about cat behavior, declawing, etc. Do you have >any opinions other than to feed Science Diet? Why is that odd? I choose not to jump into those particular discussions because they get bogged down in emotional screamfests. I don't particularly care one way or the other about declawing. I know that's not the politically correct thing to say, but so what? As for nutrition, most people (yourself included) only look at ingredient labels and then proclaim yourself an "expert". I delve deeper into the issue and you don't like it for some reason. > >From: gaubster2@aol.com (GAUBSTER2) > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > data do you have to back up any claims you make? Any food that isn't Scie Die > in your book is bad. You need to do some research really. Well let's see what the answers are: Nature's Variety to start with Lamb canned version 1.28% phosphorus, 1.6% calcium Chick & turkey 1.04% Phos, 1.48% calc Rabbit 1.04% Phos, 1.4% calc Duck 1.32% phos, 1.72% calc Venison 1.04% phos, 1.8% calc Innova Cat 1.32% phos, 1.44% calcium Maximum recommended levels for an adult cat 0.9% phos, 1.0% calc Of the foods recommended, and that are willing to give you the nutrient levels, all are in excess of the maximum recommended Key Nutritional Factor level for these minerals. Wellness and Felidae don't like to share these values, which might give one pause to wonder what they are hiding. I guess the person that needs to do some research is the person recommending products that exceed KNF maximum levels for an adult cat, wouldn't ya think? And don't bother telling us there is no harm in these levels, you need to make that argument with the people who developed the recommendations. Claudia Kirk, professor at University of Tennesee, DVM, PhD, Diplomate of the American College of Vetinary Internal Medicine and Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition, Jaccques DeBraekeleer, DVM Adjunct Professor of Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, Veterinary Faculty of the State University Gent Belgium, and P. Jane Armstrong, DVM MS Diplomate American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine, Professor Internal Medicine and Clinical Nutrition, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Minnesota St. Paul. >From: rosebrook@sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) >> >From: gaubster2@aol.com (GAUBSTER2) >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Nature's Variety to start with >Lamb canned version 1.28% phosphorus, 1.6% calcium Sorry to disappoint, Steve, who works for Hill's Science Diet, LOL, but I have been in contact with the maker's of Nature's Variety (on December 12, 2002) and to start off with, their Chicken & Turkey is 0.95% phos and 1.37% calcium. Their beef is 0.91% phos and 1.47 calcium. These numbers are directly from the manufacturer and not from any website. So once again I find you posting inaccurate and false numbers for OTHER pet food companies. Tisk tisk, Steve. I suppose if a manufacturer dilutes their foods with corn, wheat flour, oat fiber, wheat gluten, corn syrup, guar gum, and corn starch (see Science Diet Adult Feline Maintenance® Savory Cuts Beef Recipe in Gravy), then the phosphorous/ calcium levels would be low. But one must ask is this a good food for a carnivore? I always say the proof is in the pudding. If the cat is doing really well on a food, that should be the food the cat is fed. Personally, my previous cats did really poorly on Science Diet, a carb rich diet. It wasn't until they were switched to a low carb food that they did better. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm Ya'll are making me feel guilty for starting the post.....I didn't realize it would turn out like this....I've definitely learned about kitty food from all of the posts, but I just wish there wasn't so much bickering going back and forth. I created a little web page for my kitties.....I'm new at it, but I think it came out okay for a novice. Does anyone know of any other sites besides geocities where I can create another webpage? I noticed a few in here have "webshots"....is that one free? Thanks everyone. Christina -- http://www.geocities.com/chrissy_1228/ourkittycats.html >From: "Christina" chris69@rtconline.com >Ya'll are making me feel guilty for starting the post.....I didn't realize >it would turn out like this....I've definitely learned about kitty food from >all of the posts, but I just wish there wasn't so much bickering going back >and forth. Please don't feel guilty, Christina. If it wasn't your post, it would have been someone else's. Food is one of the most hotly debated topics in this group. You know everyone has an opinion. Like I said before, feed what you can afford for now, and when you're in better shape financially, then worry about getting a different food. What's important is that you're providing your kitties with a loving home :) > I created a little web page for my kitties.....I'm new at it, >but I think it came out okay for a novice. Does anyone know of any other >sites besides geocities where I can create another webpage? I noticed a few >in here have "webshots"....is that one free? Thanks everyone. Yes, Webshots is free for their basic service. I think you can only post 24 pictures, but it is free and fairly easy to use. >http://www.geocities.com/chrissy_1228/ourkittycats.html Scooby and Sylvester are adorable!! They look like they're having lots of fun :) Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm Thanks so much for the advice and compliments on the kitties! I'll definitely try the webshots, 24 pictures is fine with me. You can't post too many on Geocities either, but it's still fun to create and share with everyone. Christina -- http://www.geocities.com/chrissy_1228/ourkittycats.html > >From: "Christina" chris69@rtconline.com > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm circa Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:20:29 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Christina (chris69@rtconline.com) said, > Ya'll are making me feel guilty for starting the post.....I didn't realize > it would turn out like this....I've definitely learned about kitty food from > all of the posts, but I just wish there wasn't so much bickering going back > and forth. Oh, hell, that happens at least once a week. Don't stress it. :-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. >I created a little > web page for my kitties.....I'm new at it, but I think it came out > okay for a novice. I love the first one especially! I've never had cats who hug when they sleep. :) They sort of tolarate each other. Thanks for posting those. Cheryl circa Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:10:00 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Cheryl (nothing@hotmail.com) said, > I love the first one especially! I've never had cats who hug when > they sleep. :) http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=369785&IID=24271291 http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=369785&IID=24271297 http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=369785&IID=11962137 http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=369785&IID=11962851 And the pi?ce de r?sistance (snork): http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewImage.asp?AID=369785&IID=24271299 :-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. Laura, the links took me to a user name and password login........I wasn't able to see any pics.. -- http://www.geocities.com/chrissy_1228/ourkittycats.html > circa Tue, 20 Jan 2004 20:10:00 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, > Cheryl (nothing@hotmail.com) said, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I am Dyslexia of Borg, > Your a.s will be laminated. circa Wed, 21 Jan 2004 07:34:00 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Christina (chris69@rtconline.com) said, > Laura, the links took me to a user name and password login........I wasn't > able to see any pics.. Whoops, sorry, try this one: http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=geekwench&AID=369785 It takes you to thumbnail view, which means you'll have to pick out the pictures, but they're towards the end. :-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. >From: Laura R. usefirstinitialandlastname@technologist.com >Whoops, sorry, try this one: > >http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=geekwench&AID=369785 Cute kitties, Laura! :) I especially liked the one "my lap is not big enough" Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm circa 22 Jan 2004 03:00:25 GMT, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, PawsForThought (darnit7@aol.comnolitter) said, > >http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=geekwench&AID=369785 > > Cute kitties, Laura! :) Aww, thanks! :-) > I especially liked the one "my lap is not big enough" Heh. You can actually see the size difference between them in that one, which makes the last one all the more ridiculous. ;-) Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. Thanks Cheryl!! The digital camera I have sux....the quality isn't all that great, but I can't afford a good one. They tend to come out too dark. The cam I have is an RCA Dig Cam from Walmart I got a couple of years ago and it was about $70. Christina -- http://www.geocities.com/chrissy_1228/ourkittycats.html > >I created a little > > web page for my kitties.....I'm new at it, but I think it came out [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Cheryl circa Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:20:29 -0500, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Christina (chris69@rtconline.com) said, > http://www.geocities.com/chrissy_1228/ourkittycats.html Oh, they are CUUUUTE! Laura SignatureI am Dyslexia of Borg, Your a.s will be laminated. > Ya'll are making me feel guilty for starting the post.....I didn't realize > it would turn out like this....I've definitely learned about kitty food from [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Christina Adorable!! Both the fur kids *and* the human ones!! :) Karen Aww thanks Karen! How sweet of you to take a peek! Christina > Adorable!! Both the fur kids *and* the human ones!! :) > > Karen >Sorry to disappoint, Steve, who works for Hill's Science Diet, LOL, but I have >been in contact with the maker's of Nature's Variety (on December 12, 2002) and >to start off with, their Chicken & Turkey is 0.95% phos and 1.37% calcium. >Their beef is 0.91% phos and 1.47 calcium. These numbers are directly from the >manufacturer and not from any website. So once again I find you posting >inaccurate and false numbers for OTHER pet food companies. Tisk tisk, Steve. Are these "as fed" or "dry matter" numbers? -mhd >From: hamandcheese@betweentheknees.com >>Sorry to disappoint, Steve, who works for Hill's Science Diet, LOL, but I >have [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >-mhd I believe they're on a dry matter basis. The file is at work and I'll check when I get there and let you know. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >>From: hamandcheese@betweentheknees.com > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >>Are these "as fed" or "dry matter" numbers? I checked and it's the proximate dry matter analysis. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >>>>been in contact with the maker's of Nature's Variety (on December 12, 2002) >>>and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >I checked and it's the proximate dry matter analysis. Thanks. -mhd > >Well let's see what the answers are: > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > manufacturer and not from any website. So once again I find you posting > inaccurate and false numbers for OTHER pet food companies. Tisk tisk, Steve. Thank-you very much for once again illustrating to everyone your ignorance. The values I gave above are converted to dry matter basis - which is the only way one food may be compared to another. The KNF maximum values are also DMB values as they always are. The values I gave are directly from that manufacturers own website as of two days ago, not from 2002. You can check them yourself. The values I gave are indeed acurate based on the manufacturers own data from thier own website. Obviously you need a lesson in converting to DMB before you go off at the mouth again accusing someone in error. The quick calculation to convert to DMB is to: 1. subtract the moisture level from 100 100% - 75% moisture = .25 2. Divide the nutrient in question by the that number. Let's say calcium is quoted as 0.40% divided by .25 equals 1.60% calcium DMB. You really stepped into this time. You recommended foods with excessive levels of calcium and phosphorus and then attempted to cover it up. You accused someone wrongly, blatantly, and innacurately, then had the audacity to think you are right and all the board certified diplomats of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition are wrong. But of ourse we'll never see an apology from you, even when everyone on this NG can go directly to the results for themselves. http://naturesvariety.com/feline/plamb/ >http://naturesvariety.com/feline/plamb/ I see that they have only FORMULATED this food and haven't "test fed" it. I wonder why that is? ;) ..."for all life stages"? It seems to me that they don't have the nutritional expertise to make a food that is more specifically formulated for adult and/or senior lifestages. >From: rosebrook@sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) >Obviously you need a lesson in converting to DMB before you go off at >the mouth again accusing someone in error. The quick calculation to >convert to DMB is to: 1. subtract the moisture level from 100 100% - >75% moisture = .25 The moisture content on their website is maximums, not actual. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >>Obviously you need a lesson in converting to DMB before you go off at >>the mouth again accusing someone in error. The quick calculation to >>convert to DMB is to: 1. subtract the moisture level from 100 100% - >>75% moisture = .25 > >The moisture content on their website is maximums, not actual. Why can't they provide actuals? Is it because they don't utilize fixed formulas? > >From: rosebrook@sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The moisture content on their website is maximums, not actual. Oh come off it Lauren, you owe me an apology, which you damn well know. My figures were indeed accurate and the calcium and phos level were indeed accurate. The calcium and phosphorus numbers are expressed as MINIMUMS as well, so no matter what way you take it the values will come out within a minute percentage of what I originally stated. You could drop the moisture level to the lowest of any canned product on earth and it wouldn't change a thing. Now I guess we'll see if you have the intestinal fortitude to admit error and apologize for the comments you made. >From: rosebrook@sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) >Oh come off it Lauren, you owe me an apology, which you damn well >know. My figures were indeed accurate and the calcium and phos level [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >have the intestinal fortitude to admit error and apologize for the >comments you made. You'll never get one from her, Steve. I'm still waiting for her to apologize for her lies about me from earlier this past week as it relates to the topic of declawing. I'm absolutely convinced that Lauren is a liar. She has proven it all by herself so many times in the past that only a blind person or a moron would think otherwise. >From: rosebrook@sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) >> >From: rosebrook@sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >have the intestinal fortitude to admit error and apologize for the >comments you made. No, your numbers were based on maximum moisture, not actual moisture. You are such an idiot. You condescend to everyone else when in actuality it's you who owes the apology. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >No, your numbers were based on maximum moisture, not actual moisture. You >are >such an idiot. You condescend to everyone else when in actuality it's you >who >owes the apology. >________ Lauren you are exhibiting that troll-like behavior that you accuse everyone else of! I'm still waiting for you to apologize for lying about me and the issue of declawing! I'm still waiting for an intelligent, well-thought out post in which you DON'T insult someone or call them names. Let's make this real simple! Which product has higher carbs? Wellness canned Turkey and Salmon or Science Diet Feline Adult canned products. Which product contains levels of calcium and phosphorus in excess of KNF maximum recommendations for adult cats? Wellness canned Turkey and Salmon or Science Diet Feline Adult canned products. For the final question, does anyone think Lauren has the integrity to answer the questions honestly and directly? Can we get a pool together on an NG? I ain't joinin that's for sure..... >>For the final question, does anyone think Lauren has the integrity to answer the questions honestly and directly? Can we get a pool together on an NG?<< >From: "Christina" chris69@rtconline.com Steve Crane stupidly said: >>>For the final question, does anyone think Lauren has the integrity to >answer the questions honestly and directly? Can we get a pool together >on an NG?<< >I ain't joinin that's for sure..... Thanks, Christina :) As I"m sure you can tell, Steve Crane likes to bully people on the newsgroup, especially when they don't agree with his views or with the company he works for - Hill's Science Diet. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >>From: "Christina" chris69@rtconline.com > >Steve Crane stupidly said: Lauren look at what you typed above...why do you insist on being rude and nasty? Steve Crane wrote: >>>>For the final question, does anyone think Lauren has the integrity to >>answer the questions honestly and directly? Can we get a pool together >>on an NG?<< My answer....Lauren doesn't have any integrity. She blew it with her constant lies on THIS newsgroup. I'm still waiting for her to apologize for LYING about me on the issue of declawing. It's been over a week now and apparently she's moved on and is trying to ignore the fact that I'm calling her out on it. >>I ain't joinin that's for sure..... > >Thanks, Christina :) As I"m sure you can tell, Steve Crane likes to bully >people on the newsgroup, especially when they don't agree with his views or >with the company he works for - Hill's Science Diet. Lauren, Steve doesn't bully anyone. In fact, he tries to remain above the fray from my vantage point. You, OTOH, are simply a nasty, vicious person who doesn't tolerate dissent from your opinion--one small piece of evidence is at the top of this post (your OWN words). That must be something that comes easily for you in the lawyer "business", no?? > I ain't joinin that's for sure..... > > >>For the final question, does anyone think Lauren has the integrity to > answer the questions honestly and directly? Can we get a pool together > on an NG?<< Sigh, Obviously you were correct, it's been five days and she still hasn't shown the adult maturity to answer simple questions. Nobody would have been willing to take the down side on this bet I suppose. >From: rosebrook@sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) >> I ain't joinin that's for sure..... >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >shown the adult maturity to answer simple questions. Nobody would have >been willing to take the down side on this bet I suppose. I see you're still acting like a 2 year old, Steve. Obviously, Christina has more intelligence than to play your childish games. I wonder if Hill's Science Diet, your employer, is aware of your bully tactics on this newsgroup. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >I see you're still acting like a 2 year old, Steve. Obviously, Christina has >more intelligence than to play your childish games. I wonder if Hill's >Science >Diet, your employer, is aware of your bully tactics on this newsgroup. > >Lauren Lauren, I DARE you to back up your lies with actual quotes (from Steve, not things you make up) to prove your point. That'll probably happen the same day you apologize for LYING about me on the issue of declawing. Lauren, you are the one LYING on this ng, why must you persist in your LIES and DECEPTIONS?? It must be your profession, no? (...) > And don't bother telling us there is no harm in these levels, So, what's the proportional increase in health risk as we move above the recommended max phos (and other nutrients)? Steve. > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Steve. Like everything else it depends upon the risk factors involved. If you have a kitty that's 14 years old and has undetected renal failure a food with phos levels this high would greatly shorten the life span. If you have a young kitty with no known risk factors - maybe nothing. If you have a kitty with genetic issues you are not even aware of and which won't become manifest until they are 8 or 10 years old who knows. It's very much like Russian Roulette. You have a 5 out of 6 chance that nothing bad will happen. Unfortunately we have no idea which chamber of the revolver is going to be next. Nor has medicine progressed to the point that we can take a DNA sample and tell you exactly what diseases your cat may be susceptible to. My grandfather lived to be quite old and smoked 3 packs of unfiltered camels every day. Is it a risk I'm willing to take - No. Excessive levels of calcium, phosphorus, sodium and other minerals are a risk factor that have risks. In my opinion feeding a cat a high phos food is totally unacceptable and unecessary risk with absolutely no positive up side. (...) > > So, what's the proportional increase in health risk as we move above > > the recommended max phos (and other nutrients)? > > > > Steve. (...) > day. Is it a risk I'm willing to take - No. Excessive levels of > calcium, phosphorus, sodium and other minerals are a risk factor that > have risks. Risk factors that have risks, eh? It's a risky business and no mistake. Anyway I was hoping for info, rather than aphorisms. To illustrate: Feed a cat a .8% phos diet. Feed another cat a 1% phos diet. How much more likely is the second cat to suffer from illness related directly to the increased phos level? Is there a linear increase in risk with linear increases in phos? That sort of thing. Might not be known - after all, there are knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns, as someone might say, barely-coherently... Steve. > >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > will do for your cat's pH? This is what you end up with when you only look at > an ingredient list! Wellness has very low phosphorus and calcium levels, as well as almost 0 carbohydrates. That's something your beloved Science Diet can't claim. >From: "Jon C" news@jonnythan.com >Wellness has very low phosphorus and calcium levels, as well as almost 0 >carbohydrates. That's something your beloved Science Diet can't claim. What's wrong w/ carbs? Are you a carbophobic?? What do you think the phosphorus and calcium levels are on a dry matter basis? Gaubster2, the long-time troll that spends *every* *waking* *moment* hovering over his keyboard, monitoring the newsgroups and waiting breathlessly for someone to say the word "food" so he can spout endless, unsupported nonsense while emphatically chastising others and insisting on references (which are provided yet he never reads) although *he* never provides any and continues to spout false information regardless of being proven wrong time and time again, wrote: >What's wrong w/ carbs? Plenty, when your forcing them on an animal that is a strict carnivore with no need or ability to process them properly. From a *veterinary internal medicine specialist* with a zillion more qualifications than you have (none) on the AVMA website: http://www.avma.org/convention/recap/news/tuesday16.asp Once you've read that (yeah, right, like that will ever happen), I suggest you check your mail for a catalog of community education courses and sign up for a few, or get a part time job, or volunteer somewhere. Something. Anything. Life is too precious for you to waste the few years you have left trolling newsgroups and looking foolish on a regular basis. Megan (who, as a professional petsitter, cares for diabetic cats, *every* one of which had been on a dry food only diet all of its life when diagnosed.) Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Gaubster2, the long-time troll that spends *every* *waking* *moment* > hovering over his keyboard, monitoring the newsgroups and waiting > breathlessly for someone to say the word "food" I don't like him either, but you can stuff the "troll" bullshit. Just because you don't agree with him doesn't mean he is here primarily to disrupt the group. He is no more of a troll than you are. Stupid, for sure. But still ... >I don't like him either, but you can stuff >the "troll" bullshit. Just because you don't >agree with him doesn't mean he is here >primarily to disrupt the group. He is no >more of a troll than you are. LOL. Apparently you haven't been paying attention. It is a well known fact by most anyone that's been here for any length of time (5 years for me) that he is indeed a troll. He's been trolling the dog groups for years and found new territory for posting his garbage here. This has been commented on before by plenty of other people as well. In your quest to disagree with me at all costs and at every opportunity, you're making yourself look pretty stupid. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray >From: zuzu22@webtv.net >>I don't like him either, but you can stuff >>the "troll" bullshit. Just because you don't [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Megan Megan is right, Mary. Believe me, Gaubster2 is a troll for sure. I think Megan has described him to a T. Before the dog groups, he was trolling AOL. Unfortunately you can't go back and check posts on AOL because they only archive them for a period of 30 days. But I distinctly remember him from a declawing thread where he was defending it. I usually don't forget the pro-declaw trolls. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm Lauren LOVE the photos of the cats...they are so cute!!! The one of him hanging from the chair is hilarious!!! Christina >From: "Christina" chris69@rtconline.com >Lauren LOVE the photos of the cats...they are so cute!!! The one of him >hanging from the chair is hilarious!!! Thanks so much, Christina!! :) Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >Megan is right, Mary. Believe me, Gaubster2 is a troll for sure. I think >Megan has described him to a T. Before the dog groups, he was trolling AOL. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Lauren >________ LAUREN YOU ARE FULL OF CRAP. I DARE YOU TO BACK UP THIS LIE OF YOURS! I HAVE NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER, EVER, TAKEN A STANCE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ON DECLAWING. YOU ARE A LIAR PURE AND SIMPLE AND THIS JUST PROVES IT. You have me mistaken for somebody else. Look, this is the kind of posts a troll would make. You, yourself, are guilty of what you allege in this post. Where was I trolling on AOL?? Hmm?? You make allegations and can't back them up. The bullshit about AOL only archiving for 30 days is just you trying to cover up for yourself. Lauren, if you really believed that I'm a troll, then killfile me. You've been shown on these newsgroups to be a liar, and when you are called on it you throw around the troll allegation. Just killfile me and be done with it. Otherwise you are a hypocrite as well as a liar. I won't hold my breath for an apology from you. >From: zuzu22@webtv.net Megan, one of the problems you have is that if someone doesn't believe you 100% then you dismiss them out of hand. You aren't going to win many friends that way. If you could provide some actual evidence to support your allegation, maybe more people would actually listen to your bitter hatred! >>I don't like him either, but you can stuff >>the "troll" bullshit. Just because you don't >>agree with him doesn't mean he is here >>primarily to disrupt the group. He is no >>more of a troll than you are. >LOL. Apparently you haven't been paying attention. It is a well known >fact by most anyone that's been here for any length of time (5 years for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >quest to disagree with me at all costs and at every opportunity, you're >making yourself look pretty stupid. I simply got tired of you and others bashing Hill's relentlessly and without any evidence. I state my experiences and what I've learned from the research I've conducted and because it doesn't agree with you, you call names. Gaubster2 Wrote: <snip mindless drivel> You seem to have forgotten that I wasn't the one you got into it with about Hill's. I have a very low opinion of that company but I have not *relentlessly* bashed them. You also keep accusing me of calling you names when I did no such thing until I described you as a troll, which really isn't namecalling, but rather an accurate representation and one that most agree with. In fact, *you've* done quite a bit of namecalling, and often in the same post where you complain about it. You've provided nothing but dead links or links that do nothing to back up your claims, and even when proved wrong, continued to claim that Wellness contains ingredients from feces, which is absolutely and unequivocally untrue. Everything I have said about you is true, and your complaints and lies cannot change reality. I'm not going to get into an extended argument with you about this because pointing out your many faults and lies is just recycling old information that the majority of people here have had to put up with from you ad nauseum. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Gaubster2 Wrote: > <snip mindless drivel> > > In fact, *you've* done > quite a bit of namecalling, and often in the same post where you > complain about it. Heh. That's given me a few chuckles, time and again. You've provided nothing but dead links or links > that do nothing to back up your claims, and even when proved wrong, > continued to claim that Wellness contains ingredients from feces, > which is absolutely and unequivocally untrue. Don't forget to mention that when asked to back up his claims, his canned response is "call the manufacturer yourself". >From: "Cheryl" nothing@hotmail.com >> Gaubster2 Wrote: >> <snip mindless drivel> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Don't forget to mention that when asked to back up his claims, his >canned response is "call the manufacturer yourself". Oh yeah, that one for sure, LOL. Maybe he should have it embroidered on his t-shirt. I just love it when I suggested a few foods for Christina how Gaubster, without knowing anything about the foods, stated that their calcium/phosphorous levels were too high. His idiocy knows no bounds. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >>Don't forget to mention that when asked to back up his claims, his >>canned response is "call the manufacturer yourself". [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Gaubster, without knowing anything about the foods, stated that their >calcium/phosphorous levels were too high. His idiocy knows no bounds. There's an example of name calling right there! None of you EVER call Lauren on it however. You're a bunch of hyprocrites! As for calcium/phosphorous levels of the foods you mentioned--I did call the company themselves and the info they provided me is what I touched on. You don't like that fact, so you try to label the bearer of your bad news a "troll". Grow up. >From: gaubster2@aol.com (GAUBSTER2) >As for calcium/phosphorous levels of the foods you mentioned--I did call the >company themselves and the info they provided me is what I touched on. You >don't like that fact, so you try to label the bearer of your bad news a >"troll". Grow up. Ok, I'll give you a chance here. What exactly is the proximate dry matter analysis including calcium/phosphorous levels for Nature's Variety? ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >Ok, I'll give you a chance here. What exactly is the proximate dry matter >analysis including calcium/phosphorous levels for Nature's Variety? Did he answer? What is ludicrous in this thread is that Gaubster leaps in to condemn foods like Wellness and Felidae, yet the OP is feeding Special Kitty. Let's see the proximate dry matter analysis for Special Kitty and compare that to Wellness or even Science Diet. Surely the argument here isn't that Wellness is a worse food to feed than Special Kitty, is it? >From: yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) >>Ok, I'll give you a chance here. What exactly is the proximate dry matter >>analysis including calcium/phosphorous levels for Nature's Variety? > >Did he answer? Of course not, LOL. He must have emailed Steve Crane because Steve Crane posted some numbers. But I don't know where he got those numbers because Nature's Variety provided me with the numbers and they are different than the ones Steve Crane posted. >What is ludicrous in this thread is that Gaubster leaps in to condemn foods >like Wellness and Felidae, yet the OP is feeding Special Kitty. Let's see the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >food >to feed than Special Kitty, is it? LOL, I know, totally ridiculous. But you know if someone recommends any other food than Science Diet, Gaubster has a fit. He lives for these kinds of posts. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >>From: yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > LOL, I know, totally ridiculous. But you know if someone recommends any other > food than Science Diet, Gaubster has a fit. He lives for these kinds of posts. Well, I think highly of California Natural. ;-) And considering it is an "All Life Stages" food the numbers are pretty good. Signature"Its the bugs that keep it running." -Joe Canuck >>>Ok, I'll give you a chance here. What exactly is the proximate dry matter >>>analysis including calcium/phosphorous levels for Nature's Variety? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Nature's Variety provided me with the numbers and they are different than the >ones Steve Crane posted. It seems apparent to me that Gaubster relies on Steve and Phil to provide actual data, and if they are proven incorrect, he bails. >From: yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) >>>>Ok, I'll give you a chance here. What exactly is the proximate dry matter >>>>analysis including calcium/phosphorous levels for Nature's Variety? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >It seems apparent to me that Gaubster relies on Steve and Phil to provide >actual data, and if they are proven incorrect, he bails. LOL, exactly. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) >It seems apparent to me that Gaubster relies on Steve and Phil to provide >actual data, and if they are proven incorrect, he bails. ...and you're dead wrong. I've been out of town on business for the last couple of days. In fact, I haven't seen any posts from Phil for quite awhile. As for Nature's Variety, I've never seen that one and don't pretend to know anything about it. >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >LOL, I know, totally ridiculous. But you know if someone recommends any >other >food than Science Diet, Gaubster has a fit. He lives for these kinds of >posts. Wrong again, liar! I'm still waiting for you to recant your lies about me on the topic of declawing. Also, you totally ignore the fact that I don't respond to the majority of posts on other foods. I will defend Hill's when the Hill's bashing starts up because it is only emotional and w/o any factual basis! >From: yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) >Did he answer? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >food >to feed than Special Kitty, is it? Please show me where I've "condemned" any of those particular foods? I'll be waiting...... Put up or shut up, yngver. Actually that goes for anybody else who is wants to pile one w/o any evidence! >>From: yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Please show me where I've "condemned" any of those particular foods? I'll be >waiting...... Okay. So when you said "Lauren, you are quite wrong. I know enough about feline nutrition to know that phosphorus and calcium levels as well as pH ranges of various cat foods can wreak havoc on a cat's health (like the ones you suggested)" you were not condemning the foods she mentioned (Wellness, Felidae and Nature's Variety)? Stating these foods could "wreak havoc on a cat's health" is your way of praising them, I take it? >Put up or shut up, yngver. I have. Now it's your turn. Actually that goes for anybody else who is wants >to >pile one w/o any evidence! >From: yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) >>Please show me where I've "condemned" any of those particular foods? I'll >be [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >wreak havoc on a cat's health (like the ones you suggested)" you were not >condemning the foods she mentioned (Wellness, Felidae and Nature's Variety)? NO, I was not. I've never even seen Nature's Variety before and don't know much about it. Wellness and Felidae have excessive levels of calcium and phosphorus. Those can be fed if desired, but I choose not to for nutritional reasons. I certainly have not "condemned" those foods. Just because I choose not to feed those foods doesn't equal a condemnation on my part. >>Put up or shut up, yngver. > >I have. Now it's your turn. I don't see where you have "put up". >>Okay. So when you said "Lauren, you are quite wrong. I know enough about >>feline nutrition to know that [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >choose >not to feed those foods doesn't equal a condemnation on my part. What? That's pretty farfetched. So you are actually claiming that when Lauren recommended Wellness and Felidae to the OP, and you pipe in to say that those foods "can wreak havoc on a cat's health", you were not condemning those foods? You must have a strange definition of the word "condemn" but whatever. >>>Put up or shut up, yngver. >> >>I have. Now it's your turn. > >I don't see where you have "put up". Right. Backpeddle away. >From: yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) >>>Okay. So when you said "Lauren, you are quite wrong. I know enough about >>>feline nutrition to know that [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> >Right. Backpeddle away. LMAO! I think Gaubster needs training wheels :) Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm |
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