Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / January 2004
Tomcat Yowling
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Ryann - 12 Jan 2004 16:22 GMT Hello All.
My boyfriend rescued a himylayan last year. The cat is an unneutered male and is about 2 years old (we figure).
About 3 weeks ago, he started yowling. This has been progressively getting worse and worse. Last night he must have woken me right up about 4 times, he's got a good set of lungs on him, that cat!
Anyhow, I know that females in heat yowl.. do males yowl? He is an indoor cat, and its winter here, i can't see where he would be catching "the scent". Is it just instinct?
He hasn't been spraying (thank god), just wantering around at night... "Rrrrrrooooooooooooooowwwwwwwww, Rrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeoooooooowwwwww!" And driving us bananas.
Should I recommend to my boyfriend to get him neutered. Should that do the trick? Has anyone else had their male cat do this and general randyness not be the cause? I would hate to chop his "boys" off and have the behaviour continue. (:
Thanks in advance,
Ryann
Gail - 12 Jan 2004 16:35 GMT Yes, neutering should do the trick. It is better for his health, also. Gail
> Hello All. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Ryann kaeli - 12 Jan 2004 16:45 GMT > Should I recommend to my boyfriend to get him neutered. Should that do > the trick? Has anyone else had their male cat do this and general > randyness not be the cause? I would hate to chop his "boys" off and > have the behaviour continue. (: All non-show quality cats should be neutered. It is best for their health. If he's not going to be bred, there's no point in making him suffer from his hormones. Plus, intact males (toms) have a cancer risk (testes), not to mention the prostate problems that can occur as they age. They can't get cancer in organs that aren't there. Testicular cancer is not rare, especially in unbred toms.
Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.
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Fat Freddy - 12 Jan 2004 17:16 GMT > Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks > after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately. It may not go away at all. I have a male who was neutered at 4 months and he yowls, fights, and sprays like any other Tom. The only thing he doesn't do is breed.
Marievulsion - 12 Jan 2004 20:36 GMT >The only thing he doesn't do is breed. And that's the best reason for doing it (neutering).
kaeli - 12 Jan 2004 20:50 GMT > > Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks > > after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately. > > It may not go away at all. I have a male who was neutered at 4 months > and he yowls, fights, and sprays like any other Tom. The only thing he > doesn't do is breed. Ew. Are you sure they got BOTH balls? ;)
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Fat Freddy - 12 Jan 2004 23:47 GMT > > > Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks > > > after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.
> > It may not go away at all. I have a male who was neutered at 4 months > > and he yowls, fights, and sprays like any other Tom. The only thing he > > doesn't do is breed.
> Ew. Are you sure they got BOTH balls? ;) I got him from a cat rescue group that works out of Petsmart. His rear end was shaved and the papers said he had been neutered, but I began to doubt it as he grew up.
I asked our regular vet to check it out and he said there wasn't anything there that shouldn't be, so I guess they got them both. The Doc told me that his "Tom Cat" traits would diminish over time, but he forgot to tell Smokey.
Wendy - 13 Jan 2004 12:31 GMT > > > Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks > > > after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.
> > It may not go away at all. I have a male who was neutered at 4 months > > and he yowls, fights, and sprays like any other Tom. The only thing he > > doesn't do is breed.
> Ew. Are you sure they got BOTH balls? ;) I got him from a cat rescue group that works out of Petsmart. His rear end was shaved and the papers said he had been neutered, but I began to doubt it as he grew up.
I asked our regular vet to check it out and he said there wasn't anything there that shouldn't be, so I guess they got them both. The Doc told me that his "Tom Cat" traits would diminish over time, but he forgot to tell Smokey.
Is there another cat in the house or neighborhood cats outside that might be prompting him to mark his territory?
Fat Freddy - 13 Jan 2004 15:10 GMT > > > > Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks > > > > after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.
> > > It may not go away at all. I have a male who was neutered at 4 months > > > and he yowls, fights, and sprays like any other Tom. The only thing he > > > doesn't do is breed.
> Is there another cat in the house or neighborhood cats outside that might be > prompting him to mark his territory? Yes, there are both. I'm sure that's why he does it, but his partner, Kitty, who is about the same age has never sprayed and his urine has no smell. Smokey, on the other hand has the strongest "Tom Cat" pee I have ever smelled.
I have never been able to figure out which of them was dominant as they seem to switch that role from minute to minute.
Now that Fluffy, a stray, who we have been feeding for several months, has officially moved in, juggling for position goes on constantly. She's been living here about a month or so now and they are all starting to get pretty well adjusted.
Smokey doesn't seem to have any issue with her and they smell noses and generally co-exist peacefully. She doesn't like her butt sniffed though, and Smokey is a confirmed butt-sniffer.
Kitty and Fluffy haven't yet adjusted to each other's presence, but they get better each day.
zuzu22@webtv.net - 13 Jan 2004 15:33 GMT >Smokey, on the other hand has the >strongest "Tom Cat" pee I have ever >smelled. This really sounds like the cat has an undescended testicle that was not removed when he was neutered. This is a major cause for concern as undescended testicles will become cancerous and cause the demise of your cat. There is no way a vet can determine if there is an undescended testicle in an already neutered cat by a simple physical examination. An exploratory surgery must be done to find it. I have had several cats with this issue and always made sure the vet found the second one. If this were my cat, I would have an exploratory done to find the other testicle. The strong "tomcat" smell of your cat's urine and his behavior strongly indicate that he has a testicle still intact.
Megan
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kaeli - 13 Jan 2004 20:13 GMT > This really sounds like the cat has an undescended testicle that was not > removed when he was neutered. I agree.
This is not all that uncommon, FWIU.
/usually has female cats
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Wendy - 14 Jan 2004 13:53 GMT Fat Freddy wrote:
>Smokey, on the other hand has the >strongest "Tom Cat" pee I have ever >smelled. This really sounds like the cat has an undescended testicle that was not removed when he was neutered. This is a major cause for concern as undescended testicles will become cancerous and cause the demise of your cat. There is no way a vet can determine if there is an undescended testicle in an already neutered cat by a simple physical examination. An exploratory surgery must be done to find it. I have had several cats with this issue and always made sure the vet found the second one. If this were my cat, I would have an exploratory done to find the other testicle. The strong "tomcat" smell of your cat's urine and his behavior strongly indicate that he has a testicle still intact.
Could this be diagnosed with X-Ray?
zuzu22@webtv.net - 14 Jan 2004 16:33 GMT Wendy asked about undescended testicles:
>can this be diagnosed with an xray? AFAIK, no. I did find the following from: http://www.ivis.org/advances/Concannon/memon/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1
Visual examination and careful digital palpation of the scrotum and inguinal area is helpful. However, scrotal fat and inguinal lymph nodes may be confused with the retained testis. Abdominal testes are difficult to palpate or visualized by ultrasonography (US). The use of human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (hCG) or Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) Stimulation Test for inducing a measurable testosterone increase is recommended. Commercial bovine GnRH products, Cystorelin ® or Factrel ® may be used. The standard protocol for this test is to determine testosterone levels in a blood sample drawn before and 60 minutes after injection of GnRH at doses of 2 mg/kg or 50 mg/dog, IM [21]. An increase in testosterone concentrations in the post-treatment blood sample would, in such cases, be diagnostic for a cryptorchid dog. In a cryptorchid cat, examination of the penis for presence of spines is an excellent diagnostic technique. Penile spines, which are testosterone dependent, become atrophied within 6 weeks after castration.
Case of feline cryptorchidism - adapted from Memon et al., [25]. A 4-year-old male domestic long hair cat was referred because of aggressive behavior and urine spraying. He was obtained as a 3-month-old kitten, and when he was 6 month old, only 1 testis was found in the scrotum. When he was 1 year old, surgery was performed to remove the scrotal right testis. The left testis was not found either within the scrotum or within the abdomen. He developed male behavior and another laparotomy was performed 1 year later; however, the left testis again could not be located. He continued to show male behavior such as spraying urine, loud vocalization, and aggressiveness. At referral, digital palpation and ultrasonography did not reveal the left testis in the scrotum or in the inguinal canal. The penis was well developed and had penile spines (Fig. 3) instead of absence of penile spines, which is characteristic of castrated cats (Fig. 4). This was evidence of testosterone production. The cat was irritable and difficult to handle. A blood sample was taken for baseline testosterone concentrations, and 500 IU of hCG was administered IV. Blood samples were taken again at 30 minutes and 2 hours after hCG administration. Testosterone values (ng/ml) for samples taken at baseline, 30 minutes, and 2 hours after hCG administration were 0.68, 5.0, and 10.5, respectively. With the cat under general anesthesia, a midline laparotomy was performed. The left ductus deferens was identified and followed from the prostate gland. The ductus deferens was found to course through the inguinal ring caudally in to the subcutaneous tissues overlying the pubis. The left testis was located in the facial plane lateral to the pubic symphysis. Histological examination of the testis revealed impaired spermatogenesis, seminiferous tubules lined almost entirely by Sertoli cells, and diffuse interstitial (Leydig) cell hyperplasia. Six weeks after the surgery, the hCG stimulation test was repeated. Testosterone was not detected in any sample. Within a few weeks after the surgery, improvement in cat's behavior (urine spraying, loud vocalization, and aggressiveness) was reported by the owner.
Case summary - hCG stimulation test proved to be a useful diagnostic method for detection of the cryptorchid testis. On exploratory surgery the cryptorchid testis was found by following the ductus deferens. In this case, previous attempts to locate the retained testis had been frustrated by the inability to palpate the testis subcutaneously and locate the testis intra-abdominally. The most practical solution to locate undescended testis would have been to follow the intact ductus deferens to the small testis adjacent to the pubic symphysis.
Megan
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com
Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way."
- W.H. Murray
Fat Freddy - 14 Jan 2004 18:06 GMT > Wendy asked about undescended testicles: > >can this be diagnosed with an xray?
> AFAIK, no. I did find the following from: > http://www.ivis.org/advances/Concannon/memon/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1 Megan, thanks a lot for that very informative article. As soon as Smokey is feeling better, he has a cold right now, I'll see if I can see any penile spines. If that doesn't show me anything I'll ask his doctor about the hormone stimulating tests.
Mary - 13 Jan 2004 18:14 GMT "Fat Freddy" <howlin@damoon.com> wrote in message
> Smokey doesn't seem to have any issue with her and they smell noses and > generally co-exist peacefully. She doesn't like her butt sniffed > though, and Smokey is a confirmed butt-sniffer. Ha! This is funny. Cheeks is also, and the older, fatter Buddha rises up and slaps at her with the meanest look on her face. It's hilarious. This is the only conflict they have. Luckily Cheeks is very fast, and so rarely if ever actually gets the slap.
Wendy - 14 Jan 2004 13:52 GMT You could try a feliway diffuser. This may calm down the situation and your sprayer may not feel the need to mark territory.
> > > > Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks > > > > after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.
> > > It may not go away at all. I have a male who was neutered at 4 months > > > and he yowls, fights, and sprays like any other Tom. The only thing he > > > doesn't do is breed.
> Is there another cat in the house or neighborhood cats outside that might be > prompting him to mark his territory? Yes, there are both. I'm sure that's why he does it, but his partner, Kitty, who is about the same age has never sprayed and his urine has no smell. Smokey, on the other hand has the strongest "Tom Cat" pee I have ever smelled.
I have never been able to figure out which of them was dominant as they seem to switch that role from minute to minute.
Now that Fluffy, a stray, who we have been feeding for several months, has officially moved in, juggling for position goes on constantly. She's been living here about a month or so now and they are all starting to get pretty well adjusted.
Smokey doesn't seem to have any issue with her and they smell noses and generally co-exist peacefully. She doesn't like her butt sniffed though, and Smokey is a confirmed butt-sniffer.
Kitty and Fluffy haven't yet adjusted to each other's presence, but they get better each day.
kaeli - 13 Jan 2004 14:26 GMT > > Ew. Are you sure they got BOTH balls? ;) > > I got him from a cat rescue group that works out of Petsmart. His rear > end was shaved and the papers said he had been neutered, but I began to > doubt it as he grew up. He could have been cryptorchid or had them both not drop.
You can't really tell by feeling if that happened, I don't think. But, IANAV...
My male cats were never shaved for castration. Hrm.
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rrb_091903 - 14 Jan 2004 05:14 GMT >>>>Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks >>>>after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Doc told me that his "Tom Cat" traits would diminish over time, but he > forgot to tell Smokey. Maybe he has an undescended testicle so they didn't get them both. It sure sounds like he has the hormones still. If their is another male cat around he can spray. Plus if a female cat is in heat around it could cause him to act that way.
Karen Chuplis - 13 Jan 2004 01:01 GMT >>> Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks >>> after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Ew. Are you sure they got BOTH balls? ;) Yeah. That's fairly odd.
karen
Yngver - 12 Jan 2004 21:29 GMT >My boyfriend rescued a himylayan last year. The cat is an unneutered >male and is about 2 years old (we figure). [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >indoor cat, and its winter here, i can't see where he would be >catching "the scent". Is it just instinct? When the days start getting longer, amour is in the air for cats. He may be yowling just because it's the right season, or because he can sense or smell other cats around.
>He hasn't been spraying (thank god), just wantering around at night... >"Rrrrrrooooooooooooooowwwwwwwww, Rrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeoooooooowwwwww!" >And driving us bananas. All it may take is another cat coming around outdoors, and he can soon start spraying to proclaim his territory. You've been lucky so far--I wouldn't push it. If you have him neutered right away, he may never start spraying.
>Should I recommend to my boyfriend to get him neutered. Should that do >the trick? Has anyone else had their male cat do this and general >randyness not be the cause? I would hate to chop his "boys" off and >have the behaviour continue. (: It should do the trick, and also help prevent future health and behavioral problems.
Cathy Friedmann - 12 Jan 2004 21:31 GMT Yes, neutering should do the trick.
Cathy
-- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon
> Hello All. > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Ryann
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