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Tomcat Yowling

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Ryann - 12 Jan 2004 16:22 GMT
Hello All.

My boyfriend rescued a himylayan last year. The cat is an unneutered
male and is about 2 years old (we figure).

About 3 weeks ago, he started yowling. This has been progressively
getting worse and worse. Last night he must have woken me right up
about 4 times, he's got a good set of lungs on him, that cat!

Anyhow, I know that females in heat yowl.. do males yowl? He is an
indoor cat, and its winter here, i can't see where he would be
catching "the scent". Is it just instinct?

He hasn't been spraying (thank god), just wantering around at night...
"Rrrrrrooooooooooooooowwwwwwwww, Rrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeoooooooowwwwww!"
And driving us bananas.

Should I recommend to my boyfriend to get him neutered. Should that do
the trick? Has anyone else had their male cat do this and general
randyness not be the cause? I would hate to chop his "boys" off and
have the behaviour continue. (:

Thanks in advance,

Ryann
Gail - 12 Jan 2004 16:35 GMT
Yes, neutering should do the trick. It is better for his health, also.
Gail
> Hello All.
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Ryann
kaeli - 12 Jan 2004 16:45 GMT
> Should I recommend to my boyfriend to get him neutered. Should that do
> the trick? Has anyone else had their male cat do this and general
> randyness not be the cause? I would hate to chop his "boys" off and
> have the behaviour continue. (:

All non-show quality cats should be neutered. It is best for their
health.
If he's not going to be bred, there's no point in making him suffer from
his hormones. Plus, intact males (toms) have a cancer risk (testes), not
to mention the prostate problems that can occur as they age. They can't
get cancer in organs that aren't there. Testicular cancer is not rare,
especially in unbred toms.

Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks
after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.

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Fat Freddy - 12 Jan 2004 17:16 GMT
> Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks
> after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.

It may not go away at all. I have a male who was neutered at 4 months
and he yowls, fights, and sprays like any other Tom. The only thing he
doesn't do is breed.
Marievulsion - 12 Jan 2004 20:36 GMT
>The only thing he doesn't do is breed.

And that's the best reason for doing it (neutering).
kaeli - 12 Jan 2004 20:50 GMT
> > Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks
> > after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.
>
> It may not go away at all. I have a male who was neutered at 4 months
> and he yowls, fights, and sprays like any other Tom. The only thing he
> doesn't do is breed.

Ew. Are you sure they got BOTH balls?  ;)

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Fat Freddy - 12 Jan 2004 23:47 GMT
> > > Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks
> > > after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.

> > It may not go away at all. I have a male who was neutered at 4 months
> > and he yowls, fights, and sprays like any other Tom. The only thing he
> > doesn't do is breed.

> Ew. Are you sure they got BOTH balls?  ;)

I got him from a cat rescue group that works out of Petsmart. His rear
end was shaved and the papers said he had been neutered, but I began to
doubt it as he grew up.

I asked our regular vet to check it out and he said there wasn't
anything there that shouldn't be, so I guess they got them both. The
Doc told me that his "Tom Cat" traits would diminish over time, but he
forgot to tell Smokey.
Wendy - 13 Jan 2004 12:31 GMT
> > > Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks
> > > after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.

> > It may not go away at all. I have a male who was neutered at 4 months
> > and he yowls, fights, and sprays like any other Tom. The only thing he
> > doesn't do is breed.

> Ew. Are you sure they got BOTH balls?  ;)

I got him from a cat rescue group that works out of Petsmart. His rear
end was shaved and the papers said he had been neutered, but I began to
doubt it as he grew up.

I asked our regular vet to check it out and he said there wasn't
anything there that shouldn't be, so I guess they got them both. The
Doc told me that his "Tom Cat" traits would diminish over time, but he
forgot to tell Smokey.

Is there another cat in the house or neighborhood cats outside that might be
prompting him to mark his territory?
Fat Freddy - 13 Jan 2004 15:10 GMT
> > > > Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks
> > > > after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.

> > > It may not go away at all. I have a male who was neutered at 4 months
> > > and he yowls, fights, and sprays like any other Tom. The only thing he
> > > doesn't do is breed.

> Is there another cat in the house or neighborhood cats outside that might be
> prompting him to mark his territory?

Yes, there are both. I'm sure that's why he does it, but his partner,
Kitty, who is about the same age has never sprayed and his urine has no
smell. Smokey, on the other hand has the strongest "Tom Cat" pee I have
ever smelled.

I have never been able to figure out which of them was dominant as they
seem to switch that role from minute to minute.

Now that Fluffy, a stray, who we have been feeding for several months,
has officially moved in, juggling for position goes on constantly.
She's been living here about a month or so now and they are all
starting to get pretty well adjusted.

Smokey doesn't seem to have any issue with her and they smell noses and
generally co-exist peacefully. She doesn't like her butt sniffed
though, and Smokey is a confirmed butt-sniffer.

Kitty and Fluffy haven't yet adjusted to each other's presence, but
they get better each day.
zuzu22@webtv.net - 13 Jan 2004 15:33 GMT
>Smokey, on the other hand has the
>strongest "Tom Cat" pee I have ever
>smelled.

This really sounds like the cat has an undescended testicle that was not
removed when he was neutered. This is a major cause for concern as
undescended testicles will become cancerous and cause the demise of your
cat. There is no way a vet can determine if there is an undescended
testicle in an already neutered cat by a simple physical examination. An
exploratory surgery must be done to find it. I have had several cats
with this issue and always made sure the vet found the second one. If
this were my cat, I would have an exploratory done to find the other
testicle. The strong "tomcat" smell of your cat's urine and his behavior
strongly indicate that he has a testicle still intact.

Megan

                                   
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nothing."

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providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

kaeli - 13 Jan 2004 20:13 GMT
> This really sounds like the cat has an undescended testicle that was not
> removed when he was neutered.

I agree.

This is not all that uncommon, FWIU.

/usually has female cats

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Wendy - 14 Jan 2004 13:53 GMT
Fat Freddy wrote:

>Smokey, on the other hand has the
>strongest "Tom Cat" pee I have ever
>smelled.

This really sounds like the cat has an undescended testicle that was not
removed when he was neutered. This is a major cause for concern as
undescended testicles will become cancerous and cause the demise of your
cat. There is no way a vet can determine if there is an undescended
testicle in an already neutered cat by a simple physical examination. An
exploratory surgery must be done to find it. I have had several cats
with this issue and always made sure the vet found the second one. If
this were my cat, I would have an exploratory done to find the other
testicle. The strong "tomcat" smell of your cat's urine and his behavior
strongly indicate that he has a testicle still intact.

Could this be diagnosed with X-Ray?
zuzu22@webtv.net - 14 Jan 2004 16:33 GMT
Wendy asked about undescended testicles:
>can this be diagnosed with an xray?

AFAIK, no. I did find the following from:
http://www.ivis.org/advances/Concannon/memon/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1

Visual examination and careful digital palpation of the scrotum and
inguinal area is helpful. However, scrotal fat and inguinal lymph nodes
may be confused with the retained testis. Abdominal testes are difficult
to palpate or visualized by ultrasonography (US). The use of human
Chorionic Gonadotrophin (hCG) or Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH)
Stimulation Test for inducing a measurable testosterone increase is
recommended. Commercial bovine GnRH products, Cystorelin ® or Factrel
® may be used. The standard protocol for this test is to determine
testosterone levels in a blood sample drawn before and 60 minutes after
injection of GnRH at doses of 2 mg/kg or 50 mg/dog, IM [21]. An increase
in testosterone concentrations in the post-treatment blood sample would,
in such cases, be diagnostic for a cryptorchid dog.
In a cryptorchid cat, examination of the penis for presence of spines is
an excellent diagnostic technique. Penile spines, which are testosterone
dependent, become atrophied within 6 weeks after castration.

Case of feline cryptorchidism - adapted from Memon et al., [25].
A 4-year-old male domestic long hair cat was referred because of
aggressive behavior and urine spraying. He was obtained as a 3-month-old
kitten, and when he was 6 month old, only 1 testis was found in the
scrotum. When he was 1 year old, surgery was performed to remove the
scrotal right testis. The left testis was not found either within the
scrotum or within the abdomen. He developed male behavior and another
laparotomy was performed 1 year later; however, the left testis again
could not be located. He continued to show male behavior such as
spraying urine, loud vocalization, and aggressiveness.
At referral, digital palpation and ultrasonography did not reveal the
left testis in the scrotum or in the inguinal canal. The penis was well
developed and had penile spines (Fig. 3) instead of absence of penile
spines, which is characteristic of castrated cats (Fig. 4).
 
 
This was evidence of testosterone production. The cat was irritable and
difficult to handle. A blood sample was taken for baseline testosterone
concentrations, and 500 IU of hCG was administered IV. Blood samples
were taken again at 30 minutes and 2 hours after hCG administration.
Testosterone values (ng/ml) for samples taken at baseline, 30 minutes,
and 2 hours after hCG administration were 0.68, 5.0, and 10.5,
respectively.
With the cat under general anesthesia, a midline laparotomy was
performed. The left ductus deferens was identified and followed from the
prostate gland. The ductus deferens was found to course through the
inguinal ring caudally in to the subcutaneous tissues overlying the
pubis. The left testis was located in the facial plane lateral to the
pubic symphysis. Histological examination of the testis revealed
impaired spermatogenesis, seminiferous tubules lined almost entirely by
Sertoli cells, and diffuse interstitial (Leydig) cell hyperplasia.
Six weeks after the surgery, the hCG stimulation test was repeated.
Testosterone was not detected in any sample. Within a few weeks after
the surgery, improvement in cat's behavior (urine spraying, loud
vocalization, and aggressiveness) was reported by the
owner.

Case summary - hCG stimulation test proved to be a useful diagnostic
method for detection of the cryptorchid testis. On exploratory surgery
the cryptorchid testis was found by following the ductus deferens. In
this case, previous attempts to locate the retained testis had been
frustrated by the inability to palpate the testis subcutaneously and
locate the testis intra-abdominally. The most practical solution to
locate undescended testis would have been to follow the intact ductus
deferens to the small testis
adjacent to the pubic symphysis.

Megan


                                   
Signature


"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."

-Edmund Burke

Learn The TRUTH About Declawing
http://www.stopdeclaw.com

Zuzu's Cats Photo Album:
http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22

"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and
splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then
providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision,
raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and
material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his
way."

- W.H. Murray

Fat Freddy - 14 Jan 2004 18:06 GMT
> Wendy asked about undescended testicles:
> >can this be diagnosed with an xray?

> AFAIK, no. I did find the following from:
> http://www.ivis.org/advances/Concannon/memon/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1

Megan, thanks a lot for that very informative article.
As soon as Smokey is feeling better, he has a cold right now, I'll see
if I can see any penile spines. If that doesn't show me anything I'll
ask his doctor about the hormone stimulating tests.
Mary - 13 Jan 2004 18:14 GMT
"Fat Freddy" <howlin@damoon.com> wrote in message

> Smokey doesn't seem to have any issue with her and they smell noses and
> generally co-exist peacefully. She doesn't like her butt sniffed
> though, and Smokey is a confirmed butt-sniffer.

Ha! This is funny. Cheeks is also, and the older, fatter Buddha rises
up and slaps at her with the meanest look on her face. It's hilarious.
This is the only conflict they have. Luckily Cheeks is very fast, and
so rarely if ever actually gets the slap.
Wendy - 14 Jan 2004 13:52 GMT
You could try a feliway diffuser. This may calm down the situation and your
sprayer may not feel the need to mark territory.

> > > > Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks
> > > > after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.

> > > It may not go away at all. I have a male who was neutered at 4 months
> > > and he yowls, fights, and sprays like any other Tom. The only thing he
> > > doesn't do is breed.

> Is there another cat in the house or neighborhood cats outside that might be
> prompting him to mark his territory?

Yes, there are both. I'm sure that's why he does it, but his partner,
Kitty, who is about the same age has never sprayed and his urine has no
smell. Smokey, on the other hand has the strongest "Tom Cat" pee I have
ever smelled.

I have never been able to figure out which of them was dominant as they
seem to switch that role from minute to minute.

Now that Fluffy, a stray, who we have been feeding for several months,
has officially moved in, juggling for position goes on constantly.
She's been living here about a month or so now and they are all
starting to get pretty well adjusted.

Smokey doesn't seem to have any issue with her and they smell noses and
generally co-exist peacefully. She doesn't like her butt sniffed
though, and Smokey is a confirmed butt-sniffer.

Kitty and Fluffy haven't yet adjusted to each other's presence, but
they get better each day.
kaeli - 13 Jan 2004 14:26 GMT
> > Ew. Are you sure they got BOTH balls?  ;)
>
> I got him from a cat rescue group that works out of Petsmart. His rear
> end was shaved and the papers said he had been neutered, but I began to
> doubt it as he grew up.

He could have been cryptorchid or had them both not drop.

You can't really tell by feeling if that happened, I don't think. But,
IANAV...

My male cats were never shaved for castration. Hrm.

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rrb_091903 - 14 Jan 2004 05:14 GMT
>>>>Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks
>>>>after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Doc told me that his "Tom Cat" traits would diminish over time, but he
> forgot to tell Smokey.

Maybe he has an undescended testicle so they didn't get them both. It
sure sounds like he has the hormones still. If their is another male cat
around he can spray. Plus if a female cat is in heat around it could
cause him to act that way.
Karen Chuplis - 13 Jan 2004 01:01 GMT
>>> Keep in mind that the hormones stay in the blood for a couple weeks
>>> after castration, so the behavior may not go away immediately.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Ew. Are you sure they got BOTH balls?  ;)

Yeah. That's fairly odd.

karen
Yngver - 12 Jan 2004 21:29 GMT
>My boyfriend rescued a himylayan last year. The cat is an unneutered
>male and is about 2 years old (we figure).
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>indoor cat, and its winter here, i can't see where he would be
>catching "the scent". Is it just instinct?

When the days start getting longer, amour is in the air for cats. He may be
yowling just because it's the right season, or because he can sense or smell
other cats around.

>He hasn't been spraying (thank god), just wantering around at night...
>"Rrrrrrooooooooooooooowwwwwwwww, Rrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeoooooooowwwwww!"
>And driving us bananas.

All it may take is another cat coming around outdoors, and he can soon start
spraying to proclaim his territory. You've been lucky so far--I wouldn't push
it. If you have him neutered right away, he may never start spraying.

>Should I recommend to my boyfriend to get him neutered. Should that do
>the trick? Has anyone else had their male cat do this and general
>randyness not be the cause? I would hate to chop his "boys" off and
>have the behaviour continue. (:

It should do the trick, and also help prevent future health and behavioral
problems.
Cathy Friedmann - 12 Jan 2004 21:31 GMT
Yes, neutering should do the trick.

Cathy

--
"Staccato signals of constant information..."
("The Boy in the Bubble")  Paul Simon

> Hello All.
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Ryann
 
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