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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / January 2004Worming pill only administered by vet?
Our vet, after already diagnosing the issue during an office visit, has told us that it is "policy" that worming pills only be given by their staff in-house ($20 per pill per cat). We have two cats, both of which are, to say the least, not happy about being carted off to the vet and/or riding in the car. Frankly, it makes little sense to me that these pills (one each per cat) cannot be administered by us at home as we have "pilled " a cat regularly, but the vet office maintains that their policy is based on individuals who are unable to properly administer pills and/or do it at the right time (but, who, I would think, could always *request* the vet to do this). Does anyone know if this "policy" is common or standard practice and what the appropriate cost for one of these pills should be without the service of putting the pill in the cat's mouth? We like the vet but this practice seems extremely rigid, and given the discomfort of the trip, not necessarily in the cats' best interests. Thanks in advance. It is not standard procedure at my vet's. I bring in a stool sample, and if the cat has worms, I am able to pick up the pills or liquid and administer it myself. gail > Our vet, after already diagnosing the issue during an office visit, > has told us that it is "policy" that worming pills only be given by [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > this practice seems extremely rigid, and given the discomfort of the > trip, not necessarily in the cats' best interests. Thanks in advance. Same here. Our poor kitty was a feral and had round worms and tape worms. We bought the medicine from the vet and administered it ourselves. Don't know ANY reason or what the value add would be to have a vet do it. Other than greed or profiteering. > It is not standard procedure at my vet's. I bring in a stool sample, and if > the cat has worms, I am able to pick up the pills or liquid and administer [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > this practice seems extremely rigid, and given the discomfort of the > > trip, not necessarily in the cats' best interests. Thanks in advance. > Same here. Our poor kitty was a feral and had round worms and tape worms. > We bought the medicine from the vet and administered it ourselves. Don't > know ANY reason or what the value add would be to have a vet do it. Other > than greed or profiteering. Same here. I can even get antibiotics for my sometimes-sickly baby without bringing her in at this point, because the vet knows us and knows she has a recurrent URI.  Signature-- ~kaeli~ Why did kamikaze pilots wear helmets? http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > Our vet, after already diagnosing the issue during an office visit, > has told us that it is "policy" that worming pills only be given by > their staff in-house ($20 per pill per cat). This is not standard procedure with my vet. He will administer a pill (worming or any other type) if the cat is already in his examining room for an evaluation. There is no charge for administering the pill -- I am billed the standard examination charge plus the cost of the medication, but there is no "extra" charge for giving injections or pills. If a sequence of pills is needed, I am giving the medication to take home with me so that I can administer them myself. Like one of the others said, it might not even be necessary to bring the cat in if a fecal sample shows the presence of worms. Medication is prescribed and sent home with the caregiver. In your case, I believe I would look around and see if there are other reputable vets in your area with a different "policy." This sounds more like a revenue-producing policy than a standard medical policy. MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") Last time my cat took de-worming medicine, the vet sent me home with two needleless syringes and told me when to squirt them in my cat's mouth. I have also had the Rx drugs amoxicillin and Acepr---- given to me by my vet for me to administer at home at the appropriate times. Yesterday I saw some online prescription drug companies that apparently have U.S. licensed doctors standing by to take a patient's symptoms over email or the Internet and write a prescription. It looked like some companies did this with vets, too. For example, http://www.free-delivery-pharmacy.com/index.html?cid=orig-didrex-tar::prescripti on http://www.prescription-pro.com/Amoxicillin.html . Has anyone tried any such online Rx drug company/distributor? If so, what was the name of the online company and how was the experience? > Our vet, after already diagnosing the issue during an office visit, > has told us that it is "policy" that worming pills only be given by [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > this practice seems extremely rigid, and given the discomfort of the > trip, not necessarily in the cats' best interests. Thanks in advance. >Does anyone know if this "policy" is common or standard practice and >what the appropriate cost for one of these pills should be without the >service of putting the pill in the cat's mouth? We like the vet but >this practice seems extremely rigid, and given the discomfort of the >trip, not necessarily in the cats' best interests. Thanks in advance. Well, our vet uses a one-time injection for deworming, not pills, so yes, he has us bring the cat to the office if a stool sample shows worms. For other pills, no, he's never charged for pilling even with a fractious cat. Normally he (or one of the vet techs) might administer the first pill in the office, then send us home with the prescription and instructions. I can't imagine having to bring the cat in for pilling if it's a series of pills, such as twice a day over a course of several days or weeks. The only reason I can think of for your vet's policy is that some people may decide to go buy over the counter pills instead and he wants to make sure they are getting the proper medication. But a $20 pillling fee sounds excessive. I prefer pilling (which for tapeworm is once-only) over injection any time; best for the cat (that tapeworm shot stings!) and best for the pocketbook. The only time I resort to the tapeworm injection is for one of our hardcore house ferals who cannot be pilled, even with a treat (because the other cats push the fraidy cat aside when the pill is crushed in a treat). Sharon Talbert Campus Cats > Our vet, after already diagnosing the issue during an office visit, > has told us that it is "policy" that worming pills only be given by [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > this practice seems extremely rigid, and given the discomfort of the > trip, not necessarily in the cats' best interests. Thanks in advance. Mine sends it home with me if needed. I don't think it's an across the board thing. Karen > Our vet, after already diagnosing the issue during an office visit, > has told us that it is "policy" that worming pills only be given by [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > this practice seems extremely rigid, and given the discomfort of the > trip, not necessarily in the cats' best interests. Thanks in advance. I cannot understand why a prescription is required for Drontal. This is the best deworming medication I know and it is harmless. Drontal does not require a prescription here (very few pharmaceuticals do) and I have never heard of any pet having a problem because of Drontal usage w/out prescription or even veterinary advice. I routinely use Drontal once a year even if my cats show no signs of worms and about every owner I know here does the same. Aspirin is at least 100 times more dangerous and it does not need a prescription, right? Now your vet making you bring the cat in just to be given a pill is abusive - not to mention the price. I´d change vets for sure and let him know why you´re not going back to his clinic. The FDA has Drontal listed as over the counter. A prescription is not required. However the pharmaceutical companies only make it available to vets. My vet doesn't require that they give the pill but they do charge a lot for it. I found it just too expensive to buy it from my vet at what she charges so I order it from a vet in Australia. Much cheaper. You can also get Frontline and Advantage much cheaper that way. Same stuff, just a lot less expensive. I just couldn't understand why it cost more to worm my 1300 lb horse than it does to worm a 10 lb cat. Mel > I just couldn't understand why it cost more to worm my 1300 lb horse > than it does to worm a 10 lb cat. > > Mel I hope you intended to say you couldn't understand why it costs *less* to worm your horse (not *more*)?? Otherwise, it makes perfect sense. MaryL >The FDA has Drontal listed as over the counter. A prescription is not >required. However the pharmaceutical companies only make it available >to vets. So even though it should be available OTC, you still need a vet to write a prescription for it if you want to order it? I looked online and found a Canadian pharmaceutical company that would sell it online without a prescription. I also see they will sell Revolution without a prescription. I wonder if that's the same situation, since some U.S. Web sites say you have to have a prescription to order Revolution. yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) wrote in message > I also see they will sell Revolution without a prescription. I wonder > if that's the same situation, since some U.S. Web sites say you have to > have a prescription to order Revolution. Isn´t Revolution also against heart worms? I´m not sure about what I´m going to say now but this is what I remember hearing from my vet a few years back. If the animal has heartworms (occupying more than 15% of the volume of his heart) he should *not* be given this kind of medication as it will kill the animal. In general, heart worm medication is used *to prevent* heart worm, and *not* to get rid of it. So this is one thing that an owner should *never* give without a vet doing some tests first to determine if heart worm is present and how bad it is. Can anyone shed some light here? :) >Isn´t Revolution also against heart worms? Yes, Revolution prevents heartworm, hookworm, roundworm, fleas and ear mites. I´m not sure about what I´m >going to say now but this is what I remember hearing from my vet a few >years back. If the animal has heartworms (occupying more than 15% of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >vet doing some tests first to determine if heart worm is present and >how bad it is. Can anyone shed some light here? :) Revolution (selamectin) kills heartworm larvae, not adult heartworms. Heartworm infection in cats is very different than in dogs and diagnosis much more challenging, which is why many vets do not try to test for heartworm infection in cats before prescribing a preventative. According to the mfr of Revolution: "Cats infected with adult heartworms can safely be given Revolution to prevent further infections." Yes, dogs should first be tested for heartworm before being given Revolution. > The FDA has Drontal listed as over the counter. A prescription is not > required. However the pharmaceutical companies only make it available > to vets. http://www.pet-shopper.com/petmeds_10073.htm indicates it is prescription, but they will help you to get your vet's prescription to them so you can buy it online. I googled for {drontal "buy online} and saw this and other sites offering it. I don't mean to be a wise-a.s. I am posting "just to get the word out" that folks can buy many drugs (Rx and OTC) online and often at reduced prices. I think the competition helps make everything more affordable for all of us. I am still seeking a pet meds supply web site with an on-call vet who will take one's pet's symptoms and write a prescription per your request and as the animal needs. I understand this is done with human drugs now. > My vet doesn't require that they give the pill but they do charge a > lot for it. I found it just too expensive to buy it from my vet at [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I just couldn't understand why it cost [less] to worm my 1300 lb horse > than it does to worm a 10 lb cat. Interesting. I think the July 2003 Consumer Reports article (as well as a recent article this past fall in the New Yorker) on this suggests simply that consumer demand for cat and dog care is so high that the small animal vets can charge what demand will support, and so they do. I believe I read recently at a reputable source that horse vets make a lot less income than small animal vets. Dept. of Labor Stats. IIRC, too. 2004: > I am still seeking a pet meds supply web site with an on-call vet who > will take one's pet's symptoms and write a prescription per your > request and as the animal needs. I understand this is done with human > drugs now. I can't imagine this happening since drugs prescribed for pets in some circumstances can be abused by humans, e.g., valium, pain medication. SignatureCheryl I shall call him Squishy and he shall be mine. And he shall be my Squishy. Come here Squishy. Ow. Bad Squishy. - Dori > Caroline wrote > > I am still seeking a pet meds supply web site with an on-call vet who [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I can't imagine this happening since drugs prescribed for pets in some > circumstances can be abused by humans, e.g., valium, pain medication. I see your point. However, I mentioned some online Rx drug (for human) sites a few days ago here at the group. Physicians employed by these online companies apparently are standing by to take symptoms and write a prescription over the phone or Internet. I imagine the customer has to sign some kind of oath saying he/she is telling the truth. I have not yet confirmed that these are what they seem to be. It doesn't strike me as odd that U.S. companies would be allowed to do this, with some limits, given the little time one typically has to see a physician or vet face-to-face in a traditional appointment. For the last several years, I have been of the opinion that, short of needing brain or heart surgery, one often knows one's body or one's cat better than any doctor or vet possibly could and may very well be able to diagnose a malady better as well as come up with a better treatment, given the proper resources. I have had poor experiences with physicians and one not-so-good experience with a vet misdiagnosing. They really simply couldn't absorb all the info (or think to ask all the questions) I'd absorbed from watching myself and my cat. One of the cat newsgroups or Internet research (can't remember which; maybe it was both) was actually more helpful and identified the problem. Some "professionals" in vet and human medicine look down at this attitude. I think the real professionals agree with it and encourage patients to take an active role in troubleshooting, because it probably always leads to a better outcome. But I digress. Because your concern certainly seems to me to have merit, I suspect the human drug companies will do this for only certain Rx drugs. > I am still seeking a pet meds supply web site with an on-call vet who will take > one's pet's symptoms and write a prescription per your request and as the animal > needs. I understand this is done with human drugs now. hmmmm, Under most state and federal pharmacy laws in the US, and certainly according to AVMA guidlines a veterinarian must have a "proper client patient relationship" established. This means actual physical examination of the animal. A vet "on the phone" listening to your description of the problem certainly would not meet those guidelines and rules and would be subject to having their license revoked forthwith. There is a considerable difference between humans describing their symptoms (which they can do since they mostly speak) and an animals symptoms being described by a third party non trained pet owner over the phone. Elswhere on this NG there was discussion about a vet requiring the pet owner to come in to have a worming pill given to a pet by clinic staff. I am aware of a couple of times vets have made this a requirement. Mostly it was when the pet owner called up and complained that the cat was reacting badly to the medication. In further questioning the pet owner was confused about where the medication was supposed to go and instead of putting down the throat attempted to make a suppository out of it. You can imagine why the vet would decide that at least in the case of this particular owner it was best to have the medication given by clinic staff. > There is a considerable difference between humans > describing their symptoms (which they can do since they mostly speak) > and an animals symptoms being described by a third party non trained > pet owner over the phone. I respectfully disagree. The animal is not going to talk to the vet, either. I believe for mild cases, a discussion over the phone with the vet is no different than a human describing his/her own symptoms over the phone. > Elswhere on this NG there was discussion about a vet requiring the > pet owner to come in to have a worming pill given to a pet by clinic [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that at least in the case of this particular owner it was best to have > the medication given by clinic staff. What I imagine is that the staff would explain the proper procedure to the client and then give him/er the option of paying them to do it or doing it him/herself. Are you a vet? on 15 Jan 2004: > Elswhere on this NG there was discussion about a vet requiring the > pet owner to come in to have a worming pill given to a pet by clinic [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > supposed to go and instead of putting down the throat attempted to > make a suppository out of it. Even though I object to a veterinary service prescribing pills over the phone, I was frustrated not too long ago when trying to get worming pills from a vet without taking the cat in. She was very feral at the time and impossible to bring to a vet unless I trapped her and we'd made such strides in the trust department. I *knew* it was roundworm since she vomitted up a few on my carpet. The vet wouldn't give me Drontal without bringing her in. At the time this was impossible. This same cat got a URI after being spayed and I went frantic trying to find meds to save her since I couldn't *bring her in* in her feral state. For both cases I resorted to getting some meds from our county rescue spay/neuter clinic. I was tempted to support a phone-in service to get meds for pets but after thinking about it, I can't imagine it would ever come to be. Worming meds, yes. Antibiotics, NO. They are too widely prescribed needlessly. Calming drugs, anti-spraying, pain meds for getting in a fight with a neighbor cat, NO. SignatureCheryl I shall call him Squishy and he shall be mine. And he shall be my Squishy. Come here Squishy. Ow. Bad Squishy. - Dori rosebrook@sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) wrote in message > hmmmm, > Under most state and federal pharmacy laws in the US, and certainly [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and an animals symptoms being described by a third party non trained > pet owner over the phone. I´m not going to agree or disagree but just add something here. Although animals cannot speak, many times a successful diagnosis depends more on the history of the disease than the examination itself. And the only person who can tell the vet how it started, evolved, and what symptoms were displayed, is the owner (or whoever is closest - physically and emotionally - to the animal). >Our vet, after already diagnosing the issue during an office visit, >has told us that it is "policy" that worming pills only be given by [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >this practice seems extremely rigid, and given the discomfort of the >trip, not necessarily in the cats' best interests. Thanks in advance. Have you been with your vet long? I think some vets, until they know their clients a bit better, may be reluctant to allow any care at home until they know the client is trustworthy and knows what they are doing. I can't think of any other reason why a vet wouldn't find it okay to give a pill at home, at least after an initial exam or check of a stool sample. I know there are some laws in some areas that say a pet has to be examined by a vet before they can prescribe treatment, but in this case, a stool sample should have been sufficient to make a diagnosis. I recently discovered fleas on a couple of my cats, and managed to get a flea into a bottle and take that in to the vet's office. I had no problems getting a course of Advantage for everyone simply by having the flea identified. You might want to discuss this further with your vet, or perhaps seek out a new one more willing to work with you. Best of luck, Ginger-lyn I've never heard this one, in my many trips to many vets over the years. The common practice seems to be if you are a client and your cat has been seen at least within the year, a stool sample is all that is required. In the case of tapeworm, a telephone call is often sufficient. The pill is then sold over the counter and administered by the owner. The tapeworm med is expensive, so still expect to pay $5-$10. But an office call should not be warranted unless there is a health concern. Sharon Talbert Friends of Campus Cats not sure why the vet would say he has to be the one to administer it. I know you can buy cat worm medicine at walmart not sure how good it works though. haven't had any trouble with that kind of thing with our cats. > not sure why the vet would say he has to be the one to administer it. I know > you can buy cat worm medicine at walmart not sure how good it works though. > haven't had any trouble with that kind of thing with our cats. I think I've recently seen worming medicine at www.upco.com available without a prescription. CMM |
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