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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / December 2003How to get old "new dog & two old cats to co-exist
My friend just adopted a really great 8 year old dog. She has two resident older cats and another dog. The cats have always done fine with her dogs after the initial "check out". This dog goes after the cats and one of them swipes him repeatedly and he ends up all bloody. He doesn't seem to quit and provokes the cat more. He is really a sweet dog with everyone else. She tried taking the cats' bells off but that made it worse as she didn't see it coming. This has been going on for over 2 weeks. Any suggestions? She has tried to leash Yoshi when he is around the cats hoping familiarity would help. Hasn't. She tries to give them separate spaces but the cats are used to going where they please. Any input appreciated. Thanks! > My friend just adopted a really great 8 year old dog. She has two resident > older cats and another dog. The cats have always done fine with her dogs after [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > give them separate spaces but the cats are used to going where they please. Any > input appreciated. Thanks! The dog is provoking the cat. Train the dog. If the dog doesn't immediately stop bothering the cat when told, the dog needs trained. Since this is a cat NG, I won't go into all the myriad ways one can do that, especially since I don't know the dog. :) Post over at rec.pets.dogs.behavior. If they're the same now as they were the last time I was there (a while ago, so things may have changed), they're almost all PP and clicker trainers (no/little aversives or punishment), so if that's not your cup of tea, there are 2 yahoo dog groups that have more diverse advice. Real Dog Trainers and Balanced Trainers, IIRC. Most dogs can be trained with PP (Purely Positive) methods, but (IME) it takes more time than operant conditioning with aversives (negative reinforcement and/or punishment/corrections). Aversives are faster, but can intimidate or even ruin a shy or aggressive dog. Not every training method works for every dog. Know the dog *before* trying to train it, especially if corrections are used. Also IME, teaching new behavior is easily done with PP, but breaking bad behavior is not, since one must both teach a new behavior and break an old one at the same time (sitting still instead of chasing). I still find aversives work best for breaking bad behavior (don't chase) while PP works best for teaching new behavior (sit, down, etc). Combo them for fast results - aversive (collar correction, etc) to break, as soon as non-chasing occurs (dog stands still, sits, comes to you, lays down, etc), reward with treat/praise. Good luck.  Signature-- ~kaeli~ Dancing cheek-to-cheek is really a form of floor play. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace Hi kaeli, The cat has already scratched the dog and drawn blood so I don't think aversions would work in this case. Another problem is, as you said , it can make the dog act worse and more likely to attack, especially terrier types. You want the cat and the dog to get along so the best way to do is it is by restraint and rewards methods so they think of each other as a good thing and not be enemies. Two weeks is a short time for cats and dogs to accept each other and I think the owner must carry on keeping the dog leashed or crated while the cats are in the room and keep them out if the dog is loose. What the onwer could do is treat and praise the dog when it looks away from the cat and looks at her. She could use a clicker trainer to get the timing right and make sure the treats are really yummy. The moment he look at the owner, click treat and praise. Once the dog knows its going to get a reward when it looks away from the cat, she can add the command Look at me or watch me , or something similar to get the dogs attention when the cat comes in the room . The idea of this is to take the dogs attention away from the cat and to focus on the owner. Lots of praise helps when the dog is being quiet , I also find a chest rub helps calm a dog down as well . It will take time as the two have got off to a bad start . I don't think many , if any one on RBDB is totally PP. people still recommend choke and prong collars. Corrections don't have to be horrid or painful , a noise like psst or ach is enough sometimes and punishment can be taking something away , like removing yourself from the room . The terms can be confusing there's a web site that explains them http://www.ourdogs.chilly-hippo.co.uk/ Click on the Training button on the left hand side. Alison > The dog is provoking the cat. Train the dog. If the dog doesn't > immediately stop bothering the cat when told, the dog needs trained. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart > http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > I don't think many , if any one on RBDB is totally PP. people still > recommend choke and prong collars. Corrections don't have to be horrid > or painful , a noise like psst or ach is enough sometimes and > punishment can be taking something away , like removing yourself from > the room . Really? It's been awhile since I was there and I remember someone recommending a prong and getting *blasted*. Corrections should never be painful (with the rare exception such as teaching rattlesnake avoidance and other necessary fear responses for working dogs). Pain causes fear. A fearful animal can't learn a thing. It's too busy being afraid. Unless what you want to teach is fear, painful corrections are counter-productive. I was watching that animal show with the dog trainer (on PBS, I forget the name) the other week and he was showing the owners how to teach the dog to be nice to cats. Every time the dog went for the cat, he corrected with the collar and a "no" and as soon as the dog looked at him, rewarded the dog. After a few times, the "no" alone got the dog's attention (most of the time) and he rewarded the dog. The owners worked with the dog for a week and the behavior was extinguished. In place of it, he looked at the owners when he saw the cat. Signature-- ~kaeli~ The definition of a will?... (It's a dead giveaway.) http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > >> Really? It's been awhile since I was there and I remember someone > recommending a prong and getting *blasted*. Blimey , that's turn up for the books ! Maybe it wasn't the right recommendation for the dog rather than thr prong itself. > Corrections should never be painful (with the rare exception such as > teaching rattlesnake avoidance and other necessary fear responses for > working dogs). Pain causes fear. A fearful animal can't learn a thing. > It's too busy being afraid. Unless what you want to teach is fear, > painful corrections are counter-productive. Absolutely! > I was watching that animal show with the dog trainer (on PBS, I forget > the name) the other week and he was showing the owners how to teach the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > with the dog for a week and the behavior was extinguished. In place of > it, he looked at the owners when he saw the cat. Not sure what collar you mean , do you mean a shock collar? The problem here is that he is not telling the dog to do anything. It would be better to teach a command, something like Leave it . AFAIK if you use something like a shock collar, the dog must understand what you want it to do , it doesn't teach the dog anything, it just reinforces what you are asking him to do, though I expect you know this. I love my pets and I want them to trust me. Cats and dogs don't understand why we spray them with water or shout at them for doing things that are natural to them . They must be completely bewildered at out hostility and they always forgive us. Yet, if they do things like scratch or growl for reasons we don't understand , we think they are monsters Alison > -- > -- > ~kaeli~ > The definition of a will?... (It's a dead giveaway.) > http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart > http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > Blimey , that's turn up for the books ! Maybe it wasn't the right > recommendation for the dog rather than thr prong itself. Not that I recall. Some people just confuse them with those horrid collars with the spikes inside, I think. A pinch collar, or prong, just pinches. It does less damage to the dog than a choker, IMO. > Not sure what collar you mean , do you mean a shock collar? Goodness, no. Just a regular collar - modified choker that doesn't restrict all the way (martingale?). The goal was to break a behavior by teaching a new one (look at owner). I think people might have an easier time by teaching sit or down instead, but this dog was fine with just stay and look. Signature-- ~kaeli~ Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > > Goodness, no. > Just a regular collar - modified choker that doesn't restrict all the > way (martingale?). Phew, pleased to hear that ! > The goal was to break a behavior by teaching a new one (look at owner). > I think people might have an easier time by teaching sit or down > instead, but this dog was fine with just stay and look. That's a good idea about teaching a dog to sit , I suppose if it's sitting , it can't be chasing the cat <G> Happy New Year to RPCH&B! Alison > -- > -- [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart > http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace |
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