Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / December 2003
More on Mad Cow Disease
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PawsForThought - 28 Dec 2003 22:08 GMT http://organicconsumers.org/madcow/Greger122403.cfm
USDA Misleading American Public about Beef Safety December 24, 2003 by Michael Greger, M.D.
It is not surprising that the U.S. has mad cow disease given our flaunting of World Health Organization recommendations.[1] What is surprising, however, is that we actually found a case given the inadequacy of our surveillance program, a level of testing that Nobel laureate Stanley Prusiner, probably the world's leading expert on these diseases, calls simply "appalling."[2] Europe and Japan follow World Health Organization guidelines[3] and test every downer cow for mad cow disease[4]; the U.S. has tested less than 2% of downers over the last decade.[5] Most of the U.S. downer cows, too sick or injured to even walk, end up on our dinner plates.[6] In Canada, authorities were able to reassure the public that at least the downer cow they discovered infected with BSE--Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy, or mad cow disease--was excluded from the human food chain and only rendered into animal feed.[7] U.S. officials don't seem to be able to offer the same reassurance, as the mad cow we discovered may very well have been ground into hamburger.[8] How then, can the USDA and the beef industry insist that the American beef supply is still safe? They argue that the infectious prions that cause the disease are only found in the brain and nervous tissue, not the muscles, not the meat.
For example, on NBC's Today, USDA Secretary Veneman insisted "the fact of the matter is that all scientific evidence would show, based upon what we know about this disease, that muscle cuts -- that is, the meat of the animal itself -- should not cause any risk to human health. "[9] The National Cattlemen's Beef Association echoed "Consumers should continue to eat beef with confidence. All scientific studies show that the BSE infectious agent has never been found in beef muscle meat or milk and U.S. beef remains safe to eat. "[10] This can be viewed as misleading and irresponsible on two counts.
First, American do eat bovine central nervous system tissue. The United States General Accounting Office (GAO) is the investigative watchdog arm of Congress. In 2002, the GAO released their report on the weaknesses present in the U.S. defense against mad cow disease. Quoting from that congressional report, "In terms of the public health risk, consumers do not always know when foods and other products they use may contain central nervous system tissue... Many edible products, such as beef stock, beef extract, and beef flavoring, are frequently made by boiling the skeletal remains (including the vertebral column) of the carcass..."[12] According to the consumer advocacy organization Center for Science in the Public Interest, spinal cord contamination may also be found in U.S. hot dogs, hamburgers, pizza toppings, and taco fillings.[13] In fact, a 2002 USDA survey showed that approximately 35 percent of high risk meat products tested positive for central nervous system tissues.[14]
The GAO report continues: "In light of the experiences in Japan and other countries that were thought to be BSE free, we believe that it would be prudent for USDA to consider taking some action to inform consumers when products may contain central nervous system or other tissue that could pose a risk if taken from a BSE-infected animal. This effort would allow American consumers to make more informed choices about the products they consume."[15] The USDA, however, did not follow those recommendations, deciding such foods need not be labeled.[16]
Even if Americans just stick to steak, they may not be shielded from risk. The "T" in a T-bone steak is a vertebra from the animal's spinal column, and as such may contain a section of the actual spinal cord. Other potentially contaminated cuts include porterhouse, standing rib roast, prime rib with bone, bone-in rib steak, and (if they contain bone) chuck blade roast and loin. These cuts may include spinal cord tissue and/or so-called dorsal root ganglia, swellings of nerve roots coming into the meat from the spinal cord which have been proven to be infectious as well.[17] This concern has led the FDA to consider banning the incorporation of "plate waste" from restaurants into cattle feed.[18] The American Feed Industry Association defends the current exemption of plate scrapings from the 1997 feed regulations: "How can you tell the consumer 'Hey, you've just eaten a T-bone steak and it's fine for you, but you can't feed it to animals'? "[19]
Even boneless cuts may not be risk-free, though. In the slaughterhouse, the bovine carcass is typically split in half down the middle with a band saw, sawing right through the spinal column. This has been shown to aerosolize the spinal cord and contaminate the surrounding meat.[20] A study in Europe found contamination with spinal cord material on 100% of the split carcasses examined.[21] Similar contamination of meat derived from cattle cheeks can occur from brain tissue, if the cheek meat is not removed before the skull is fragmented or split.[22] The World Health Organization has pointed out that American beef can be contaminated with brain and spinal cord tissue in another way as well.[23]
Except for Islamic halal and Jewish kosher slaughter (which involve slitting the cow's throat while the animal is still conscious), cattle slaughtered in the United States are first stunned unconscious with an impact to the head before being bled to death. Medical science has known for over 60 years that people suffering head trauma can end up with bits of brain embolized into their bloodstream; so Texas A&M researchers wondered if fragments of brain could be found within the bodies of cattle stunned for slaughter. They checked and reportedly exclaimed, "Oh, boy did we find it."[24] They even found a 14 cm piece of brain in one cow's lung. They concluded, "It is likely that prion proteins are found throughout the bodies of animals stunned for slaughter."[25]
There are different types of stunning devices, however, which likely have different levels of risk associated with them. The Texas A&M study was published in 1996 using the prevailing method at the time, pneumatic-powered air injection stunning.[26] The device is placed in the middle of the animal's forehead and fired, shooting a 4 inch bolt through the skull and injecting compressed air into the cranial vault which scrambles the brain tissue. The high pressure air not only "produces a smearing of the head of the animal with liquefied brain,"[27] but has been shown over and over to blow brain back into the circulatory system, scattering whole plugs of brain into a number of organs[28] and smaller brain bits likely into the muscle meat as well.[29]
Although this method of stunning has been used in the United States for over 20 years,[30] the meat industry, to their credit, has been phasing out these particularly risky air injection-type stunners. The Deputy Director of Public Citizen argues that this industry initiative should be given the force of federal regulation and banned,[31] as they have been throughout Europe.[32]
The stunning devices that remain in widespread use drive similar bolts through the skull of the animal, but without air injection.[33] Operators then may or may not pith the animals by sticking a rod into the stun hole to further agitate the deeper brain structures to reduce or eliminate reflex kicking during shackling of the hind limbs.[34] Even without pithing, which has been shown to be risky, these stunners currently in use in the U.S. today may still force brain into the bloodstream of some of these animals.[35-38]
In one experiment, for example, researchers applied a marker onto the stunner bolt. The marker was later detected within the muscle meat of the stunned animal. They conclude: "This study demonstrates that material present in... the CNS of cattle during commercial captive bolt stunning may become widely dispersed across the many animate and inanimate elements of the slaughter-dressing environment and within derived carcasses including meat entering the human food chain."[39] Even non-penetrative "mushroom-headed" stunners which just rely on concussive force to the skull to render the animal unconscious may not be risk free. People in automobile accidents with non-invasive head trauma can still end up with brain embolization,[40] and these bolts move at over 200 miles per hour.[41] The researchers at Texas A&M conclude, "Reason dictates that any method of stunning to the head will result in the likelihood of brain emboli in the lungs or, indeed, other parts of the body."[42]
And, finally, even if consumers of American beef just stick to boneless cuts from ritually slaughtered animals who just happen to have had their spinal columns safely removed, the muscle meat itself may be infected with prions. It is unconscionable that the USDA and the beef industry continue to insist that the deadly prions aren't found in muscle meat.[43] In 2002, Stanley Prusiner, the scientist who won the Nobel Prize in Medicine for his discovery of prions, proved in mice, at least, that muscle cells themselves were capable of forming prions.[44] He describes the levels of prions in muscle as "quite high," and describes the studies relied upon by the Cattlemen's Association as "extraordinarily inadequate."[45] Follow-up studies in Germany published May, 2003 confirm Prusiner's findings, showing that an animal who is orally infected may indeed end up with prions contaminating muscles throughout their body.[46] And just last month, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, Swiss scientists found prions in the muscles of human CJD victims on autopsy. Eight out of the 32 muscle samples turned up positive for the deadly prions.[47]
The discovery of a case of mad cow disease in the U.S. highlights how ineffective current safeguards are in North America. The explosive spread of mad cow disease in Europe has been blamed on the cannibalistic practice of feeding slaughterhouse waste to livestock.[48] Both Canada[49] and the United States[50] banned the feeding of the muscles and bones of most animals to cows and sheep back in 1997, but unlike Europe left gaping loopholes in the law. For example, blood is currently exempted from the Canadian[51] and the U.S.[52] feed bans. You can still feed calves cow's blood collected at the slaughterhouse. In modern factory farming practice calves may be removed from their mothers immediately after birth, so the calves are fed milk replacer, wh ch is often supplemented with protein rich cow serum. Weaned calves and young pigs also may have cattle blood sprayed directly on their feed to save money on feed costs.[53] For more information on this and other risky agriculture practices please see http://organicconsumers.org/madcow/GregerBSE.cfm
And the Canadian[54] and U.S. feed bans[55] also allows the feeding of pigs and horses to cows. Cattle remains can be rendered down and fed to pigs, for example, and then the pig remains can be fed back to cattle.[56] Or rendered cattle remains can be fed to chickens and then the chicken litter, or manure, can be legally fed back to the cows.[57] So the fact that according to the USDA the most infectious tissues of the U.S. mad cow case, the brain, spinal cord, and intestines, "were removed from this animal and sent to rendering" is not necessarily reassuring.[58]
D. Carleton Gajdusek was also awarded the Nobel Prize in Medicine for his work on mad cow-like diseases.[59] He was quoted on Dateline NBC as saying, "it's got to be in the pigs as well as the cattle. It's got to be passing through the chickens."[60] Dr. Paul Brown, medical director for the US Public Health Service, believes that pigs and poultry could indeed be harboring mad cow disease and passing it on to humans, adding that pigs are especially sensitive to the disease. "It's speculation," he says, "but I am perfectly serious."[61]
The 2002 General Accounting Office report concluded: "BSE may be silently incubating somewhere in the United States. If that is the case, then FDA 's failure to enforce the feed ban may already have placed U.S. herds and, in turn, the human food supply at risk. FDA has no clear enforcement strategy for dealing with firms that do not obey the feed ban... Moreover, FDA has been using inaccurate, incomplete, and unreliable data to track and oversee feed ban compliance."[62] The report can be downloaded at http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02183.pdf
Despite these shortcomings, Secretary Veneman and Washington's governor both assured the public that they were still having beef for Christmas, reminiscent of the 1990 fiasco in which the British agriculture minister appeared on TV urging his 4-year-old daughter to eat a hamburger.[63] Four years later, young people in Britain were dying from an invariably fatal neurogenerative disease called variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease--the human equivalent of mad cow disease--which they contracted through the consumption of infected beef.[64] With an incubation period up to decades long, no one knows how high the final human death toll will be.
[1] http://organicconsumers.org/madcow/GregerBSE.cfm [2] Mad Cow Disease in Canada. May 23, 2003 9:00am KQED Forum hosted by Angie Coiro. . [3] World Health Organization Consultation on Public Health Issues Related to Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy and the Emergence of a New Variant of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease. MMWR 45(14);295-6, 303. 12 April 1996. [4] Mad Cow Disease in Canada. May 23, 2003 9:00am KQED Forum hosted by Angie Coiro. . [5] Even assuming 195,000 downers a year and that every single of the tests in the surveillance program's history was performed on downer cattle, (48,000 in 13 years)/(195,000 x 13 years) is less than 2%. [6] A Review of USDA Slaughterhouse Records for Downed Animals (U.S. District 65 from January, 1999 to June, 2001) Farm Sanctuary, October 2001. http://www.nodowners.org/downedanimals.pdf [7] "Critics say U.S. needs to do more to protect against mad cow." The Journal News (New York) 29 May 2003. [8] "Mad Cow Meat May Have Been Eaten, Official Says." Reuters. December 23, 2003. [9] "First US Case Of Mad Cow Disease Found In WA." The Bulletin's Frontrunner. December 24, 2003. [10] National Cattlemen's Beef Association Statement. December 23, 2003. [11] [12] United States General Accounting Office. GAO Report to Congressional Requesters. January 2002 MAD COW DISEASE: Improvements in the Animal Feed Ban and Other Regulatory Areas Would Strengthen U.S. Prevention Efforts. GAO-02-183. http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02183.pdf [13] "Health and Consumer Groups Urge USDA to Keep Cattle Spinal Cord Tissue Out of Processed Meat" Center for Science in the Public Interest News Release. 10 August 2001. [14] USDA, Food Safety and Inspection Service, USDA Begins Sampling Program for Advanced Meat Recovery Systems, News Release.3 March 2002. [15] United States General Accounting Office. GAO Report to Congressional Requesters. January 2002 MAD COW DISEASE: Improvements in the Animal Feed Ban and Other Regulatory Areas Would Strengthen U.S. Prevention Efforts. GAO-02-183. http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02183.pdf [16] USDA Response To GAO Recommendations on BSE Prevention. Release No. F.S. 0071.02. [17] Center for Science in the Public Interest. Nutrition Health Letter. June, 2001. [18] FDA Veterinarian Newsletter. Volume XVII, No. VI. November/December 2002. [19] USA Today, June 10, 2003. [20] Harvard Center for Risk Analysis. Risk Analysis of Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies in Cattle and the Potential for Entry of the Etiologic Agent(s) Into the U.S. Food Supply . 2001. /madcow_report.pdf>. [21] Joint WHO/FAO/OIE Technical Consultation on BSE. OIE Headquarters, Paris, 11-14 June 2001. [22] USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service. Current Thinking on Measures that Could be Implemented to Minimize Human Exposure to Materials that Could Potentially Contain the Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy Agent. 15 January 2002. [23] Joint WHO/FAO/OIE Technical Consultation on BSE. OIE Headquarters, Paris, 11-14 June 2001. [24] Reuters 29 August 1996. [25] Lancet Vol 348 August 31, 1996. [26] Lancet Vol 348 August 31, 1996. [27] European Commission Health & Consumer Protection Directorate-General Scientific Opinion on Stunning Methods and BSE Risks. January 2002. [28] Transfusion, Vol. 41, No. 11, 1325, November 2001. [29] European Commission Health & Consumer Protection Directorate-General Scientific Opinion on Stunning Methods and BSE Risks. January 2002. [30] Transfusion, Vol. 41, No. 11, 1325, November 2001. [31] Testimony of Peter Lurie, MD, MPH Deputy Director Public Citizen's Health Research Group Before the Consumer Affairs, Foreign Commerce and Tourism Subcommittee Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee. 4 April 2001. [32] Regulation (EC)No 999/2001 of the European Parliament and of the Council. Laying down rules for the prevention, control and eradication of certain transmissible spongiform encephalopathies. 22 May 2001. [33] European Commission Health & Consumer Protection Directorate-General Scientific Opinion on Stunning Methods and BSE Risks. January 2002. [34] European Commission Scientific Report on Stunning Methods And BSE Risks (The Risk of Dissemination of Brain Particles Into the Blood And Carcass When Applying Certain Stunning Methods. December 2001). [35] Berliner und MŸnchener TierŠrztliche Wochenschrift 2002 Jan-Feb; 115(1-2): 1-5. [36] Joint WHO/FAO/OIE Technical Consultation on BSE. OIE Headquarters, Paris, 11-14 June 2001. [37] European Commission Health & Consumer Protection Directorate-General. Scientific Steering Committee Opinion on the Safety of Ruminant Blood with Respect to Risks. 14 April 2000. [38] European Commission Scientific Report On Stunning Methods and BSE Risks (The Risk of Dissemination of Brain Particles into the Blood and Carcass when Applying Certain Stunning Methods. December 2001). [39] Applied and Environmental Microbiology. 2002 Feb; 68(2): 791-8. [40] Letters to the Editor. The Lancet Vol 348 September 14, 1996. [41] European Commission Health & Consumer Protection Directorate-General. Scientific Steering Committee Opinion on the Safety of Ruminant Blood with Respect to Risks. 14 April 2000. [42] Letters to the Editor. The Lancet Vol 348 September 14, 1996. [43] National Cattlemen's Beef Association news release. 21 May 2003. . [44] Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 2002 Mar 19;99(6):3812-7.
[45] Mad Cow Disease in Canada. May 23, 2003 9:00am KQED Forum hosted by Angie Coiro. . [46] European Molecular Biology Organization Reports 4, 5 (2003), 530. [47] New England Journal of Medicine 349(2003):1812. [48] Kimberlin, R. H. "Human Spongiform Encephalopathies and BSE." Medical Laboratory Sciences 49 (1992): 216-217. [49] Canadian Food Inspection Agency BSE Fact Sheet. May 2003 P0091E-00. http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/anima/heasan/disemala/bseesb/bseesbe.shtml [50] Food and Drug Administration 2000 CFR Title 21, Volume 6, Chapter 1, Part 589. http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/21cfr589_00.html [51] Canadian Food Inspection Agency, Regulations: Food for Ruminants, Livestock and Poultry (Part XIV), "Prohibited Materials" [52] Food and Drug Administration 2000 CFR Title 21, Volume 6, Chapter 1, Part 589. http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/21cfr589_00.html [53] International Center for Technology Assessment. Citizen Petition Before The United States Food And Drug Administration. 1/9/03. http://www.icta.org/legal/madcow1.htm [54] Canadian Food Inspection Agency, Regulations: Food for Ruminants, Livestock and Poultry (Part XIV), "Prohibited Materials" [55] Food and Drug Administration 2000 CFR Title 21, Volume 6, Chapter 1, Part 589. http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/21cfr589_00.html [56] Public Citizen. Letter to the FDA and USDA RE: BSE. 21 April 2001. http://www.citizen.org/cmep/foodsafety/gsfc/articles.cfm?ID=1562 [57] Food and Drug Administration Sec. 685.100 Recycled Animal Waste (CPG 7126.34) [58] FDCH Political Transcripts December 23, 2003 [59] Unconventional viruses and the origin and disappearance of kuru. 13 December 1976. http://www.nobel.se/medicine/laureates/1976/gajdusek-lecture.html [60] NBC Dateline 14 March 1997. [61] Pearce, Fred. "BSE May Lurk in Pigs and Chickens." New Scientist 6 April 1996: 5. [62] United States General Accounting Office. GAO Report to Congressional Requesters. January 2002 MAD COW DISEASE: Improvements in the Animal Feed Ban and Other Regulatory Areas Would Strengthen U.S. Prevention Efforts. GAO-02-183. http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02183.pdf [63] Chicago Tribune 21 May 21 2003. [64] "Ministers Hostile to Advice on BSE." New Scientist 30 March 1996: 4.
Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
GAUBSTER2 - 28 Dec 2003 22:47 GMT >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >Date: 12/28/03 2:08 PM Pacific Standard Time [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >USDA Misleading American Public about Beef Safety >December 24, 2003 by Michael Greger, M.D. I am purposefully going to eat even more beef just because of this article! Thanks, Lauren!
(It would be interesting for the other side to be presented here, rebutting this one-sided article.)
PawsForThought - 28 Dec 2003 22:51 GMT >From: gaubster2@aol.com (GAUBSTER2)
>I am purposefully going to eat even more beef just because of this article! >Thanks, Lauren! You're most welcome!
Have a hamburger on me too. We all know you've already got Mad Troll Disease! ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Cheryl - 28 Dec 2003 22:55 GMT >>From: gaubster2@aol.com (GAUBSTER2) > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Have a hamburger on me too. We all know you've already got Mad Troll > Disease! LOL
We can hope he gets CJD from it.
 Signature Cheryl
"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." - Helen Keller
GAUBSTER2 - 29 Dec 2003 01:57 GMT >From: Cheryl jlhshadow@NOSPAMhotmail.com and
>PawsForThought
>We can hope he gets CJD from it. I already have it--Can't Justify Dummies. You and Lauren are 2 of them!
GAUBSTER2 - 29 Dec 2003 01:59 GMT >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought)
>>I am purposefully going to eat even more beef just because of this article! >>Thanks, Lauren! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Have a hamburger on me too. We all know you've already got Mad Troll >Disease! Hardy, har har. Too bad you've been shown to be a liar on this ng numerous times in the past (by your own words). Again, do you support peta?
Lucifer - 28 Dec 2003 23:55 GMT >>From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >>Date: 12/28/03 2:08 PM Pacific Standard Time [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I am purposefully going to eat even more beef just because of this article! >Thanks, Lauren! I'm sure that the American beef industry will be relieved to hear that.
>(It would be interesting for the other side to be presented here, rebutting >this one-sided article.) The US Government is desperately trying to convince folks that beef is safe.
It may even be right.
But nobody believes the US Government anymore.
Especially foreigners.
GAUBSTER2 - 29 Dec 2003 01:53 GMT >From: Lucifer lucifer@cheerful.com
>But nobody believes the US Government anymore. > >Especially foreigners. Who cares about "foreigners"? Which "foreigners" are you referring to?
Morgoth Bauglir - 29 Dec 2003 01:56 GMT >>From: Lucifer lucifer@cheerful.com > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Who cares about "foreigners"? Which "foreigners" are you referring to? The ones who used to buy $17 billion in US beef. Those foreigners.
Greg Hanson - 29 Dec 2003 14:03 GMT Has anybody mentioned that the nervous system is this extensive web throughout a carcass and that it's not immune to the bad PRIONS? ( They think good PRIONS fight alzheimers )
Has anybody mentioned that PRIONS bunch up big time in the tongue?
If they ban brains and spine, they need to ban all nerve fibers (very hard to do) and they need to stop the many uses for tongue.
And when they strip the spinal cord out of the carcass, isn't spinal fluid spilling all over a huge disaster? 5 to 10 year incubation period? Impervious to autoclave temperatures?
BSE/MadCow/PRIONS/Nervous System/Spinal Fluid Spongebrain Squarepants/Pika/Cannibalism
frlpwr - 29 Dec 2003 08:27 GMT (snip)
> I am purposefully going to eat even more beef just because of this > > article! Excellent!
PawsForThought - 29 Dec 2003 12:07 GMT >From: frlpwr frlpwr@flash.net
>(snip) > >> I am purposefully going to eat even more beef just because of this > > >article! > >Excellent! LMAO! ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Cheryl - 28 Dec 2003 23:10 GMT on 28 Dec 2003:
> http://organicconsumers.org/madcow/Greger122403.cfm > > USDA Misleading American Public about Beef Safety > December 24, 2003 by Michael Greger, M.D. Interesting, and thanks. What I find ironic is that even with all of the UDSA safeguards in place, that this has happened. It just proves that no matter what they tell us, there is a large risk. I just hope that the USDA and the FDA and CDC don't turn a blind eye like the UK did until it was too late, and they had to destroy all of the cattle and sheep.
May 2003, http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/bsefaq.html
"What is being done to prevent Canadian products that may be contaminated with BSE from entering the United States? The risk to human health resulting from the BSE-infected cow in Canada is extremely small, if it exists at all; no meat from this animal entered the human food supply. When this case was reported from Canada, FDA and USDA reacted immediately. USDA added Canada to its BSE restricted countries list, and USDA and FDA expanded their restrictions on imports from BSE countries to Canadian products.
FDA will continue to work with USDA to stop a wide variety of products (animal feed, human food) with bovine-derived materials from being imported into the U.S. from BSE restricted countries, including Canada. In addition, both FDA and USDA are cooperating with the Customs Service to ensure food safety at the border."
 Signature Cheryl
"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." - Helen Keller
GAUBSTER2 - 29 Dec 2003 01:55 GMT >Interesting, and thanks. What I find ironic is that even with all of the >UDSA safeguards in place, that this has happened. It just proves that no >matter what they tell us, there is a large risk. Stuff happens. There is a risk to everything.
>I just hope that the USDA >and the FDA and CDC don't turn a blind eye like the UK did until it was too >late, and they had to destroy all of the cattle and sheep. You're the second person to state that they had to destroy "ALL" of the cattle and sheep. You mean 100% were destroyed? I never heard that at all.
Steve G - 29 Dec 2003 17:37 GMT (...)
> You're the second person to state that they had to destroy "ALL" of the > cattle and sheep. You mean 100% were destroyed? No, 100% of cattle in the UK were not destroyed. Possibly there's some confusion here wrt the foot and mouth outbreak in the UK, where very large numbers of cows indeed were destroyed (but still not 'all' cows).
Steve.
Cheryl - 29 Dec 2003 23:57 GMT 29 Dec 2003:
>> You're the second person to state that they had to destroy "ALL" of >> the cattle and sheep. You mean 100% were destroyed? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Steve. Cows culled over 30 months in age. No, not FMD, BSE.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/agriculture/publi/pac2000/beef/beef_en.pdf "On the supply side, the decision to eliminate adult cattle of over 30 months in the UK from the food/feed chain led to a reduction in the expected production for 1996 of over 300,000 t. More than a million animals went into the scheme in 1996."
Douglas Hogg, then agriculture minister schemed to have all cattle over 30 months culled so as not to be added to the food chain. This was all included in a timeline of the BSE crisis in which the "first" known case in the UK showed up initially in what, 1986? That is what I meant about turning a blind eye. It really wasn't something totally unexpected. I mean there were a lot of livelyhoods involved, tons of money. It really wasn't known that by just removing the parts that were removed from animal feed and human consumption would have ammounted to what it did over the next 10+ years during the height of the crisis. Even years later it was discovered that rendering plants weren't complying with the erradication plan and were letting diseased parts slip though.
 Signature Cheryl
"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." - Helen Keller
-L. - 29 Dec 2003 05:39 GMT > on 28 Dec 2003: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > UDSA safeguards in place, that this has happened. It just proves that no > matter what they tell us, there is a large risk. Well, the meat insdustry became highly deregulated under the Reagan/BushI regimes, and the meat supply became essentially unwholesome at that point. Line speeds at slaughter houses sped up considerably, tainted meat was allowed to be *washed* off (it used to have to have the contamination carved off) and inspections were left up to the entities themselves to perform. They pretty much allowwed the wolf to guard the chicken houses. This - or something worse - was bound to happen sooner or later. The incidence of meat-borne illness skyrocketed. Two books I recommend: Fast Food Nation by Schlosser (sp?) and Slaughterhouse by Gail Einsitz.
> I just hope that the USDA > and the FDA and CDC don't turn a blind eye like the UK did until it was too > late, and they had to destroy all of the cattle and sheep. <snip>
Pretty freaking ironic that when it happened in other countries, they banned the importation of cattle and cattle products, but now that it is here, the meat is "ok for consumption"...? The way the animals are slaughtered, cerebral-spinal fluid leaks on the carcass. Hamburger is bound to contain nerve and spinal cord matter. Rendered beef is in a ton of products. Prions are also found in muscle tissue, so it is possible the muscle tissue could be contaminated and not detected, even if it was not contaminated with the aforementioned fluid. No way in hell will you find me eating any beef in this country. The government already allows the meat industry to poison people with E. coli 0157:H7; 73,000 cases and around 60 deaths occur from it each year. All of these illnesses can be prevented with appropriate teating of the meat, slower slaughtering lines and better care in slaughtering and animal husbandry. All of these preventive measures *can* - and used to be - implemented by the government.
They just have their heads so far up the meat industry's a.s (and their hand in the meat industry's pocket), they won't.
-L.
GAUBSTER2 - 29 Dec 2003 23:34 GMT >From: k3_e81@yahoo.com (-L.)
>Well, the meat insdustry became highly deregulated under the >Reagan/BushI regimes, and the meat supply became essentially >unwholesome at that point. OH brother! Yeah, it's all a big conspiracy! You leftists seem to forget that you had 8 years of the Presidency yourself where you failed to "fix" all of these conspriacy theories. If things were so bad, why didn't bl.wj.b Clinton fix it while he had 8 years to do so? The only regimes on this planet are the ones in your head, North Korea, China, Cuba, and a few in the Middle East. Good thing we deposed the one in Iraq, no?
There sure were a lot of people dropping dead from "unwholesome" meat supplies from Jan. 20th, 1980 until Jan. 20th 1992! Take your leftist lunacy theories somewhere else!
> This - or something worse - >was bound to happen sooner or later. Yeah, the sky is always falling w/ you, isn't it!
>Pretty freaking ironic that when it happened in other countries, they >banned the importation of cattle and cattle products, but now that it >is here, the meat is "ok for consumption"...? Your are freaking out over ONE COW (that came from Canada). NO deaths have been reported and yet you are getting your knickers in a knot over nothing but media hype (currently).
> No >way in hell will you find me eating any beef in this country. I doubt you eat beef at all. For your information, we have the safest food supply on the planet. Yet, if things are so much better elsewhere, then why don't you move?
>They just have their heads so far up the meat industry's a.s (and >their hand in the meat industry's pocket), they won't. Have you even ever worked in the meat industry? I doubt it. Perhaps you have some proof of what you allege? I doubt that too.
Hagar - 30 Dec 2003 23:54 GMT > OH brother! Yeah, it's all a big conspiracy! You leftists seem to forget that > you had 8 years of the Presidency yourself where you failed to "fix" all of > these conspriacy theories. If things were so bad, why didn't bl.wj.b Clinton > fix it while he had 8 years to do so? Ahhh, NOW I understand!
You're a neocon!
No WONDER you post like an inhabitant of the shallow end of the gene pool.
Don't fret - SOMEBODY has to occupy the lower half of the Bell Curve; it's the nature of the thing.
--
It is not true that all conservatives are stupid. It is, however, true that most stupid people are conservative. H. L. Mencken
Bush I: four years of war and recession. Clinton: eight years of unprecedented prosperity. Bush II: four years of war and recession.
It's so simple, even a neocon can understand it! ;-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This message was posted via one or more anonymous remailing services. The original sender is unknown. Any address shown in the From header is unverified.
GAUBSTER2 - 31 Dec 2003 01:59 GMT >> OH brother! Yeah, it's all a big conspiracy! You leftists >seem to forget that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >bl.wj.b Clinton >> fix it while he had 8 years to do so? You completely avoided the substance of the post, didn't you? Yep, instead you spin even more:
>Ahhh, NOW I understand! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Don't fret - SOMEBODY has to occupy the lower half of the Bell >Curve; it's the nature of the thing. Like more leftists, you think you are somehow "above" others and throw around the nasty insults thinking all the time how clever you are. Ha!
>Bush I: four years of war and recession. >Clinton: eight years of unprecedented prosperity. >Bush II: four years of war and recession. Too bad for you the facts don't back you up. Bush 1 didn't have 4 years of recession. (would you like to provide some proof?) Clinton didn't have 8 years of unprecedented prosperity either. What makes you think that everything was bad before and after Clinton, but not during? (and you left out the prosperity of the Reagan years!) Bush II hasn't even been in office for 4 years and yet you are sticking him w/ a 4 yr recession and a 4 year war? Whom have we been at war with for 4 years, moron? We aren't in a recession for that matter either. What is your definition of "neocon" anyway? (this ought to be interesting!) You've already shown you can't back up your outlandish allegations, so I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are just a troll.
PawsForThought - 31 Dec 2003 03:42 GMT >From: Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Hagar)
>> OH brother! Yeah, it's all a big conspiracy! You leftists >seem to forget that [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >No WONDER you post like an inhabitant of the shallow end of the >gene pool. Yep, you got him pegged pretty darn good! LMAO! ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
GAUBSTER2 - 31 Dec 2003 18:01 GMT >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought)
>Yep, you got him pegged pretty darn good! LMAO! Lauren, don't you have anything of value to add? Apparently not. :( LYAO
Cathy Friedmann - 31 Dec 2003 00:26 GMT > >From: k3_e81@yahoo.com (-L.) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > OH brother! Yeah, it's all a big conspiracy! You leftists A-ha. We get down to brass tacks, & the apparent root of the disagreements.
Cathy
-- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon
seem to forget that
> you had 8 years of the Presidency yourself where you failed to "fix" all of > these conspriacy theories. If things were so bad, why didn't bl.wj.b Clinton [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Have you even ever worked in the meat industry? I doubt it. Perhaps you have > some proof of what you allege? I doubt that too. GAUBSTER2 - 31 Dec 2003 02:00 GMT >From: "Cathy Friedmann" clfr@adelphia.net
>> >Well, the meat insdustry became highly deregulated under the >> >Reagan/BushI regimes, and the meat supply became essentially [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >A-ha. We get down to brass tacks, & the apparent root of the disagreements. Yep, isn't that what this is all about? ;)
dgk - 31 Dec 2003 15:29 GMT >> >From: k3_e81@yahoo.com (-L.) >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Cathy The brass tack industry is NOT at the root of all disagreements. Although I do believe that steel tacks are better.
Cheryl - 30 Dec 2003 00:17 GMT 2003:
> They just have their heads so far up the meat industry's a.s (and > their hand in the meat industry's pocket), they won't. With the economy in the condition it is in (and supposedly starting to improve) this isn't going to make for a good turn in the right direction. I was reading the list of countries banning US beef and other rendered products and this is going to really hurt. Especially in the Asian market where most (?) of their beef comes from the US, Iowa was mentioned. Pet food (non-specified brands, even) was on the list of most every country participating in the ban.
 Signature Cheryl
"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." - Helen Keller
frlpwr - 30 Dec 2003 17:10 GMT -L wrote:
(snip)
> Well, the meat insdustry became highly deregulated under the > Reagan/BushI regimes, and the meat supply became essentially > unwholesome at that point. The meat became unwholesome and enforcement of the Humane Slaughter Act, pitiful protection that it is, became a joke. The few USDA inspectors still on site spend all their time in labs searching for pathogens, not on the bleed rail looking for eye movement and vocalizations in animals being exsanguinated.
Barb - 29 Dec 2003 17:33 GMT Well, I for one, unlike another of your responders, am not going to eat more beef as a result of reading your very informative and well-researched information. Unfortunately I don't think I can give up beef, entirely. Even my vitamin E pills are coated with a gel that contains beef parts. Chuck and round chopped met and boneless steaks-I go with filet mignon-supposedly are safer.
The cats will stick with poultry and fish.
-- Barb I can only please one person a day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.
PawsForThought - 29 Dec 2003 17:17 GMT >From: "Barb" bguzzino@suffolk.lib.ny.us
>Well, I for one, unlike another of your responders, am not going to eat more >beef as a result of reading your very informative and well-researched [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >The cats will stick with poultry and fish. I don't think I'm quite giving up beef yet either. But I guess we'll just have to watch and see what develops, or doesn't develop, at this point. I buy free range or organic beef, but I don't even know if that makes that much of a difference when it comes to BSE. I guess I'll have to research it to find out more.
Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
GAUBSTER2 - 29 Dec 2003 23:36 GMT >From: darnit7@aol.comnolitter (PawsForThought) >Date: 12/29/03 9:17 AM Pacific Standard Time
> I buy free >range or organic beef, but I don't even know if that makes that much of a >difference when it comes to BSE. Lauren, what is your defintion of "free-range"? Somebody on another ng said that "free-range" doesn't truly exist in the US.
Karen M. - 30 Dec 2003 17:27 GMT > >From: "Barb" bguzzino@suffolk.lib.ny.us > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Lauren Organic-fed cattle are fed vegetarian feed, so you should be okay there. As for free-range, there is no official definition for eggs, meat, etc.. You have to call the individual business to find out their own standards. :)
K
> ________ > See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe > Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm PawsForThought - 30 Dec 2003 19:27 GMT >From: misskittymcgill71@yahoo.com (Karen M.)
>> >From: "Barb" bguzzino@suffolk.lib.ny.us >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >K Thanks, Karen. I don't eat much beef but I do buy a steak about once a week from Whole Foods Market. The cats get organic beef but they also don't eat much beef, mostly chicken, venison, buffalo or ostrich. I checked Whole Foods website to see what they had to say and found this:
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/meat_12-24-03.html
Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
MacCandace - 30 Dec 2003 03:47 GMT << Even my vitamin E pills are coated with a gel that contains beef parts. >>
I forgot about that. Mine, too, I think. That's generally what gelatin is.
Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail)
See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace
"One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely)
PawsForThought - 30 Dec 2003 13:59 GMT >From: maccandace@aol.comlitter (MacCandace)
><< Even my vitamin E pills are coated with a gel that contains beef parts. >> > >I forgot about that. Mine, too, I think. That's generally what gelatin is. > >Candace They do now have vegetarian capsuled Vitamin E, one brand being Solgar for example. As an alternative, you could always use liquid vitamin E, but that would be kinda icky I suppose.
Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
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